Part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire for over five centuries, South Tyrol was ceded to Italy after World War I, but awarded autonomous status. TRT World's Sarah Morice reports from Bolzano.
I am from italian Tyrol, Trentino. My ancestors were ethnic germans. My surname is german. The double citizenship should be given without any kind of problems. My family lived the italianization and this is enough to give justice for a big crime committed in the history. This crime was before the WWII and was decided in Versailles by the winners of the WWI..now we are in Europe and shouldn't be problems in those cases.
Don't be ridicolous. It's Italy, you cannot give citizenship of another country en masse to a part of your country, that's just stupid and creates useless tensions.
@InfoRome it was a crime against the german minority. The WWII arrived because in Versailles, the winners decided to punish Germany and ethnic germans around Europe. In Südtirol 98% of the population was german speaking. In Trentino the percentage was not more 10% but it's always a big problem. You are italian, so for you, it's simply impossible to understand my point of view.
@InfoRome with Europe, what's the problem? 500.000 in Italy could have double citizenship, and nobody could say anything. I'm Germany, 5.000.000 ethnic germans from east Europe, have double citizenship. The real situation around the world doesn't give you the solution? My grandparents were citizens of K.u.K. and half of them were ethnic germans. We should have the right to obtain double citizenship. That's all. You are full italian and I don't expect that you can understand my point of view.
careful what you wish for.. now you are a cool place, a region with a special status, allowed to keep 90% of your taxes. being a peripheral Austrian province is worse by any stretch of the imagination.
Whilst I don't really have much against the Italians it is clear that the native inhabitants are ethnic Germans speaking a Bavarian dialect . So should at least be given the option of joining the Austrian part of Tirol .
That is not the Austrian flag.. but the regional flag of Alto Adige/South Tyrol. Also, those are not Austrian traditional clothes, but rather typical styles of the people who live in the Dolomites which can be both Italy and Austria
@@SunshineFromWithin no one is oppressed in South Tyrol (there was cultural oppression during fascism, but there was cultural oppression everywhere in Europe, look at France, Germany, Jugoslavia…), but now they have a very good deal from the government and it is impossible to live and work there if you don’t speak German, only Bolzano is somehow Italian now because it is quite an industrial city, if you want to know what real cultural oppression and eradication looks like go to western Lombardy or Piedmont, where it is almost impossible to find a native because of internal mass migration and extreme urbanisation.
@@SunshineFromWithin That's just not how things work. South Tyrol is not the most successful region in Italy and its richness (it is richer than Austrian Tyrol) derives from their special fiscal policies too, unlike other regions South Tyrol is not giving even 1 euro to Italy, South Tyroleans can keep for themselves almost everything they produce. The only reasons why Italy keeps (and asked for South Tyrol) are mostly geographical and political, since South Tyrol is on "our side of the alps" and it is a very strategical position to defend, South Tyrol economical weight is very small for a very populated country like Italy. Entering Austria would mean having worse economical advantages, since it is unlikely that Austria would give such special status to them, you just don't realise how lucky they are, they have serious authonomy with fiscal and administrative advantages and they are in the EU, which means they can go to Austria without any problem.
Alsace Lorraine was French since 1605! Germans stole it in 1914-18 and 39-45. Stupid. And French and Germans are the same people, Austrians are not italians because italians are not white they are from south Europe they dont have our culture
@@AkhmatProductions South Tyrol was inhabited by Austians, and Italy got it as a reward for WW1. But its not really italian. I mean i guess it became italianized in one century, but its obviously not assimilated into the rest of Italy as Savoy is to France for instance, since people still speak german in south Tyrol and dream of being rattached to Austria
@@Chrysobubulle We treated Austrian people with white gloves, we literally guaranteed them autonomy, lower taxes and free money to their regional government............ we could have done the same as the soviet union after WW2, which expelled all ethnic german people from their lands (Konigsberg, now kaliningrad, Danzig, Poznen, ect....) and killed more than 600.000 people in the way (actually way more) but we didn't and respected every ethnicity to this day.
A referendum? What a brilliant idea! We in the UK used to regard referendums as a crazy foreign idea favoured only by demagogues and dictators, but recently we discovered what a wonderful tool they are for solving problems, forging national consensus, and saving well-paid politicians from having to actually do any serious work when confronted with difficult questions. What’s not to like? At last our continental cousins have a chance to emulate our magnificent example!
South Tyrol is in the Italian geographical area: from there it would be militarily possible to split northern Italy in two, separating Milan from Venice. therefore Italy, in order to make the Tyroleans "happy", guarantees them great linguistic, cultural and economic autonomy. and benefits of all kinds.
South Tyrol is not Italy. Plain and simple. The South Tyrolese were never asked to be part of your country, and now, in 2023, still don't. Self-determination. It's time to change a grave historical blunder.
@@allanprimeau7864 Vienna was founded by Italic. the real inhabitants are the Ladins. you should return to the steppes of Northern Europe where you came from
@@allanprimeau7864 the Austrians occupied Italian lands unjustly for 200 years. you lost the war you lost your land. remember that the real inhabitants still today are the Ladins, those who escaped from the violent Germanification. to clarify, these lands that are called Italy "today" have been called that for more than 2 thousand years.
@@nosferatus777 Italy stole South Tyrol because the Italian government conveniently switched sides. The people of South Tyrol are German speaking Austrians under occupation against their will and against international law. You know that deep down. It's been time for a referendum since 1919. They don't feel Italian and never will.
People conveniently forget that south tyrol was annexed because it's the most defensible border possible,a necessity due to the historically predatory attitude of the austrian "empire" towards Italy. If you don't like it go to austria.
Go back further and it probably was Celtic. Italy annexed SudTirol after the the USA entered WWI & allowed many grabs on territory by countries that would never have been capable of taking the land militarily. They got it like vultures after a kill by a lion. The status won't change because of the EU, but it is no more valid than Russia taking the Crim.
The USA was actually against the pact of London, and we are talking about ww1 not ww2, what counted was starving the enemy and take their resources away, not taking the territories you wanted, even France got Alsace and lorreine even tho the frontline never reached those regions. Learn history.
@@SunshineFromWithin Italy has twice changed the sides from coloboration into, - I am not shure how to call it- victim or part of the winners of the war, fact is they have got parts of a" landscape", where people live, who do not accept to be Italians! I think, nowadays it should be possible, to let them decide, where they would like to belong to.. many people talk about rassism and colosiansm (sorry, I am not shure if, it is well spelled), but it seems that Europe is a blind fleck in the eyes... of the EU, I just hear we have to worry about others, but we have our own problems to be disolved!
Woodrow Wilson wrongly handed this region to italy in the treaty of versailles, now trentino alto adige that was italian. Of course, they're not going to feel italian, when theye were only annexed ONE HUNDRED YEARS AGO, and everything about their culture to language is german, same with alsace and northern lorraine outside of major cities.
It is very simple, South Tyrol is the Italian Geograpghical Area, south of Alps. Given the aggressive nature of the Austrian Empire which has messed up in Northern Italy for century, the region was given to Italy in order to avoid future wars. Simple as that.
South Tyrol is part of the Italian geographical region. It is located below the Alps, a natural historical border. In Roman times, South Tyrol was part of Roman Italy in the Venetia et Histria region, and not of Rezia. In South Tyrol was spoken latin, and the most ancient and indigenous language of the place is Ladin, a Romance language still spoken today. The Germanic peoples are simply medieval invaders who came from the north of the Alps, they are not originally from South Tyrol, they do not belong to that land. Whoever says that because they speak German they should be Austrians, then Austrians should be Germans..
Your claim is pointless. Greeks could also claim southern Italy, Sicily and Sardinia by thatlogic. Or Irish could claim half of Europe becouse it was once populated by Celts, including Italy. And just like South Tyrol, which has been Germanic for centuries, many municipalities on the border with Slovenia are almost compleatly Slovenian. Gorica, Opčine, Dolina.....all have Slovene ethminology. Italy is the occupier who took these regions populated almost excplucivly by other nations and no historical claim from the Roman times can change that
@@alengrm7488 It is absolutely not the same example, maybe you don't quite understand what I wrote. Language is the basis of a people's determination. A people can be made up of men with different DNA, but it is essential that for a people to exist there must be a language that unites them. The oldest language, originally from South Tyrol, is Ladin, not German. If we speak German today it is because Austrian blond men came down from the Alps and conquered and colonized South Tyrol.... So this is not their land, it does not belong to them and they are invaders. You write that Italy has occupied those places but 1. Italy has won that territory in the war, like so many other states have territories scattered on the other side of the world, and like Italy it has also lost many of its own. 2. South Tyrol, however, was previously occupied by the Austrians in the same way. Southern Italy was Greek, thousands of years ago, today it is not culturally Greek, or have you missed some passage? The example on the Celts is embarrassing, as the Celts do not come from Ireland, but came from the high Danube, from which they expanded into several territories of Europe, including Ireland, one of many....
@@alengrm7488 So your example has little to do with it. Because on all points of view: -geographical: Italy is a peninsula, it is geographically distinguished, and South Tyrol is part of it. -historical: Already in Roman times the cartographers made the borders re-enter within Italy. Pliny the Elder, Augustus and many others .. -political: South Tyrol was won by Italy in the war. -cultural: although today the main culture is the Tyrolean / Bavarian one, it must be considered that this is culture that was imported from the Austrian invasions. It would be like saying that Spain has the right to own Mexico because it is a Hispanic country. The true natives of South Tyrol are the Ladins, the oldest people in the area. German speakers are the result of fairly recent invasions. If they want to be Austrian they can cross the Brenner Pass and go back to Austria, where they come from. But trust me, they have too many advantages to stay in Italy. 1 in Austria they do not want them, 2 Italy recognizes their special statutes, the possibility of maintaining the Germanic language and culture (and it is not so obvious, see the colonies of France, England, etc).
@@ITALICVS “The oldest language originally from South Tyrol is Ladin, not German” Bavarians started settling in South Tyrol around the 6th century and around that same time, modern day Austria was populated by Slovenes and Czechs. Yet we are in the 21st century where German is spoken in both South Tyrol and in the rest of Austria. If we can go back 1400 years we can go back even a little further to the times when Greeks and celts lived in modern day Italy. It’s their land now and it has been like that for centuries. Even the name for Bozen is of Bavarian origin. “South Tyrol was previously occupied by the Austrians” That’s not how it works, people move and find new homes, just like romans moved into many regions of Europe. And by that logic Italians are currently the ones that occupied South Tyrol.
My parents are north Italian. My dna is nth Italian/slovenian, german and a touch balkan. My surname is of the dolomites. It is not Austrian. And Austria should cede territory to Slovenia and Croatia. The Hapsburgs were the land grabbers. And where have all the German minorities gone to in other countries. Prussia, czech republic, volga germans among others. And what about the Basques in Spain and France. No other place but Italy could you have an area where ladin, german, Venetian, italian and friulan is spoken. And i talk about the north west. And should Italy demand Istria/fiume back. Or maybe the old Savoy. Sud tyrol is not Sicily or Rome or tuscany but Italy is a land of different regions, cultures and languages. Italian as a national language is a relatively recent thing. It is tuscan. Italian, could have been Venetian instead. Austrian is probably thinking back to its glory days when it had an empire. You could argue that the whole north west should be speaking Ladino and Friulan. The roots of the area are Celtic. In Roman times it was Cisalpine Gaul. So the whole question is MOOT. Or we could change all the european borders and kick the Russians out of Kallingrad and St Petersburg. Oh , I forgot the Russians kicked out all the previous people. Perhaps Austria should rejoin Germany as in the Anschluss. The area of sud tyrol did become part of Nazi Germany for a short time after Italy surrendered in WW2. HOW DID THAT FEEL. WW1 essentially began with the assassination of Ferdinand. And Italy was drawn into the war despite the fact it was not equipped to fight such a war. It had spend decades trying to kick other powers from its territories including Austria. Austria itself is an artificial construct. Tyrol and Vienna are 2 different places. Innsbruck is closer to german Switzerland and liechtenstein. And we could discuss Switzerland where they speak german, french, italian and romanisch.
At the end of the day, Sth Tirol is part of the Tirol in Austria, and even the Americans wanted to give it back to Austria after WW2, but the British said no.
Which language is the first, official language in schools for example? Do most people speak Italian fluently as well? Beautiful landscape and buildings. Want to go there... maybe next summer...
Why is Italy against the citizens getting Austrian passports? Here in the US, I have multiple friends with dual citizenship. I could see an issue with not wanting to give up the land and change the borders due to national defense, mineral rights, or other issues, but if the people have Germanic roots, forcing them to be Italian isn't going to change how they feel about their heritage. If the people feel Austrian, and Austria wants to give them passports, I don't see the issue.
Italy has historically been quite oppressive towards minorities. I am South Tyrolean myself, and as mentioned in the video, we have a significant history with Austria. However, what many people forget is that South Tyrol, or at least a large part of it, was once Swiss territory, part of the Kingdom of Chur, which later became Graubünden. It's a culturally rich region and the wealthiest in all of Italy. This is why many Italians harbor resentment towards us and are envious. If we had a second citizenship, it would greatly empower us. To put it into perspective, Italy has a GDP of €34,000 per capita, while South Tyrol's GDP increases by 4-6% annually and is already at €50,000 per capita, comparable to countries like Belgium, the Netherlands, and Austria. They fear our independence, and we do not wish to remain part of Italy. Italy's economy is in decline, facing a demographic crisis ahead. Who would want to be part of a sinking ship? I left Italy because of this, and most young South Tyroleans migrate to Austria, Switzerland, or Germany.
We do not force anybody to be italians They have to go back to Austria. The Austrian empire killed enough italians many years ago. Study history.......
I live in the South of Austria also near the Italian border (Carinthia). German was (once upon a time, forced on us) the invaders language, before that we were Celts that the Romans conquered. Language is the only thing we share with Germans, everything is very mixed influence or mish mash as we say. For me personaly - we are the alpe adria region ( and we share the same dna, which makes us one people.
“Before that we were celts” buddy, celts in continental Europe are extinct it is very unlikely you even have 10% of Celtic ancestry but your claiming you were a celt before, WE WUZ CELTS AND ROMANS N SHIET
@@markadalWell you clearly do not know the meaning of the word and it isn't it is the truth they are Austrian Germans . You must be a typical lefty globalist to say such a ridiculous and absurd thing I think it's high time that you educated yourself properly on matters you know nothing about ! .
Habsburgs empire suppressed its minority like the Hungarians in the past, Austria starting ww1, the failed Austrian painter started ww2 and now Austria is starting a new problem. Plus if i remember the Austrian painter in ww2 was actually okay for Italy to have this land 😂
Derek Flores it doesn't matter: there are occitan, Greek, whatever surnames all over Italy ... But we definitely feel Italians . I never understood what's the problem with "Alto Adige "/south tyrol. Without tourism and the money form wealthy northern Italian families they would be nothing !
Von mir aus kann südtirol eine eigene Region werden. Von mir aus auch mehr autonomie kriegen. aber doppelte staatsburgerschaft ist echt dreist von Österreich. wir gehen auch nicht nach Korsika und bieten den einwohnern italienische Pässe. mit dieser politik gibt es nur konflikt und eskalation
@@BolnoyBratchny in Alto Adige one third speaks Italian and there is 7% Ladin. It is not the only case of a State with linguistic minorities. Language is not the only element to consider when speaking of borders and states.
@@BolnoyBratchny1) if you decide to start a war, you have to be sure to win, or can lose territories. 2) the original ethnicity is not German but Ladin. 3) language is not the only important element in a state, there are various examples with multiple official languages. 4) from a geographical point of view it is south of the watershed, of the Alpine ridge and everything south of it is geographically Italy, even if the Germans settled there in the Middle Ages. finally I think that these few concepts have more value than yours, considering that Italy too lost two regions after the war and nothing was ever claimed (Istria and Dalmatia).
And it is not Austrian. It is not part of Vienna. It was Celtic, then with the Romans Cisalpine Gaul. Ladin is not Germanic and the Ladins were descriminated by german speakers during the time of hapsburges. The Bavarians migrated south. Colonisation by population. A part of my dna is from that migration. But Im a mix bag from the nth west of italy that can trace my line 100s of years. Take that arguement to Switzerland, Spain and France re the Basques, or the Slovenes in Austria. Dont strutt around like the little man with a little black moustache. Lets talk anschluss, greater germany, ceding Czechoslovakia etc etc Sounds like racial talk. I remember that tyrolean murderer who killed how many Italians in the area. Do you want to purify sud tyrol.
From what. The Hapsburgs were the empire builders. The Bavarians migrated south. Switzerland has 4 language groupings. Sud tyrol is not Vienna. And is an autonomous region. Do you want a great Germany. Where are the Czech germans? Etc etc remember the little corporal with the funny moustache and Anschluss. And Im a mongrel with ne italian, slovenian, germanic dna
You get that this part of land was inhabited prddominantly by austrians and Italy just wanted it as a ww1 booty after alliance's victory. They have every right to keep on their austrian identity
Italians have too much respect for these low iq idiots, they're literally the most financially helped region in all of italy with political rights other regions do not have. They should be bowing and licking our shoes cause if they were to be annexed to Austria they would just be considered a region with no particular strong point
You don’t even know how much autonomy South Tyrol has nowadays. If anything, Italy has proved it can protect its linguistic minorities pretty well, in recent years. Most of its tax revenue stays inside the province and Italy doesn’t get any of it.
The Brenner pass is the natural border between Austria and Italy ; The North is part of Austria , The South is part of Italy and nothing will change no matter the language or the costume . Don't care to be Italian ? move to Austria ..it's that simple .
Se in Europa facessero un referendum del tipo : chi vuol fare come San Marino ? Credo che ci sarebbe un'alzata generale di mano e credo anche che alcuni sudtirolesi farebbero uno stato a parte .
north of south tyrol is majority austrian south is majority italian as both austrian and italians are scattered between north and south of south tyrol. i myself would like the annexation of of the north because i believe they should be with their nation as they choose though if that were to happen which could happen in the following years as italy's financial situation is getting a bit messy and south tyrol's rich area having its taxes spread throughout poorer regions in the south. i mean i wouldn't be surprised if italy split in half later on due to italy having a massive divide in naples and the north but in general but yeah if the country were to explode then north of south tyrol should be annexed and duel citizenship for south tyrol in general should be put in place. yeah idk what im rambling about, just quite pissed that ethnic lands are just split like that as a prize of war.
Avoid bloodshed on both sides we really don't want every nation around to be siding against one another let south tyrol go to Austria and stop trying to force italianization
@@josephgraham4531 FORCE ITALIANIZATION????? AHAHAHAHAHA WE LITERALLY GAVE THEM AUTONOMY AND THE RIGHT TO SPEAK AND STUDY THEIR OWN LANGUAGE, COLTURE AND IDENTITY. Most south tyrolers dont want to go to austria as here they enjoy many more rights and economical benefits. Instead why dont you release texas and let it be independent?
@@AkhmatProductionsTexans don't want to live USA they usually joke about leaving but they won't although they can and about economic benefits are you sure between Austria and italian economy which is more stable
Give me an Austrian passport then. Can I apply based on ancient genetics? 😆South Tyrol shows up on my deep dive genetic reports as does Piedmont and the general Venice area of Italy (North East) which is not far off.
Texas is a state that formerly belonged to Mexico but was seceded to the United States after a war in the 1840’s. Given that the demographics of the states are much more Spanish speaking & of Hispano-American culture in general, I believe something similar to what South-Tyrol’s people are proposing is practical. It would definitely not go over well with White Protestants in the area, but Mexican-Americans (and Mexicans that have lived there over say 15-20 years without a criminal record) living in that area should be granted citizenship to both nations. Otherwise, that state and U.S. as a whole is picking and choosing how to treat them based on convenience versus fundamental rights (e.g. Mexicans have been called upon/drafted to participate during times of war despite not being citizens but then denied benefits even after serving due to non-citizen/legal status). I am using Texas as an example here of land that culturally is distinct enough (and more like that of a nation it borders than its own country) that it serves as a crossroads between countries but the same could be said of Florida and Puerto Rico in the U.S., or South Tyrol (Italy) and Northern Ireland (U.K.) in Europe.
Alex Alvarenga you fail to mention in the secession of Texas that it wasn’t just white peoples but without the help of Tejanos, Texas wouldn’t of had its independence. Today majority of Mexicans here moved here after Texas joined the US for a better life. SÜDTIROL has been ethnically german for hundreds of years and the Italians got it as a prize for switching to the allied side during WW1.
Alex Alvarenga Mexicans here don’t want to be apart of Mexico, Especially the grand children of the Tejanos who fought for independence. If they wanted to be apart of Mexico they wouldn’t be moving here.
Heinz Rüdiger Many do want the be a part of Mexico. They have tremendous pride in their heritage but simply put, many are poor due to several factors that have to do with neither the U.S. nor Mexico (because they can’t) fully integrating them. And granted, not all Tejanos feel this way, but the option should be there for those who do want to and who have had a clean record for the time in which they have lived in Texas.
Yea, greater Germany, little moustaches. Where are the Prussians, the Czech germans, the Volga Germans, the Hungarian Germans. And austria should cede territory to Slovenia. And Tyrol should cede territory to the Ladins a Reaitian language group. And what other groups did they kick out before. The celts were there before. I am 100% ethnically from the north west (dolomites, carnia alps) and can trace my history 100s of years and my dna states that I am german, nth italian/slovene, little slav and some british. I have nothing to do with Vienna or the Hapsburgs. Sicily is not Italy.
