How value Ayaka getting low doesn't mean best against multi wave enemies time challenge or best against highest set score difficult, she best Cryo playstyle before Wriothesley than Ganyu for fast paced timer
Im shocked by the novelty bias in this vid honestly, he didnt mention ganyu's name once in the video, thinking ayaka was objectively better and now that they release a new cryo he instantly doomposts his own main (All the three are tied and each individually have flaws that the others cover)
She got nerfed the same way Venti did. They keep introducing mobs that don't freeze well or bosses that don't stand still much. And it will probably get worse. You can still use Venti and her but it's not as easy as it was. Get Shenhe's C1 before you get Ayaka's cons - neither need cons but Shenhe's feels nice and makes the rotation easier.
i'd agree with this one. Shenhe is the key on cryo comps. C1 Shenhe is where the experience different in any Cryo comps. for players who made it to C6 Shenhe, hurray. zero issues on ANY cryo teams xD even Qiqi main dps will be possible
@@milosaga5450 thing is you don't have to rely on Icyquill stacks completely. she has her buff for NA/CA, Cryo damage and Cryo shred without her Icyquill stacks. this is what makes her necessary at the current state of cryo. without shenhe, cryo teams will be a lot weaker.
@@lsnexus2080 Yeah but without Icy Quills, Kazuha just does a lot more right? 40% def shred and 40% damage boost is massive. Yes I can use both, but I don't have both and I gotta pick one
As a C2R1 Ayaka player, I completely agree. Ayaka isn't by any means a weak character, but she simply doesn't have the same value she once did. I'd say for any players seeking the most optimal DPS route, just skip Ayaka and pull Neuvillette when he reruns. Ayaka requires higher awareness for proper play and investment (in terms of team comps and weapons) than some of the more recent powerful DPS options. Again, she isn't a bad character by any means, I just wouldn't recommend someone who isn't willing to really focus on Ayaka investment-wise to pull her.
C0R1 Ayaka, completely agree. freeze just isn't relevant anymore (you could play freeze in some chambers but still), and melt... well there are better options
I do consider Ayaka a costly unit because of my own experience with a C0R0 Ayaka with Kazuha, Kokomi, Rosaria. Pretty much any time Kazuha can't group the enemies or enemies can't be frozen, other teams I have with lower 5 star cost will clear faster. I understand the argument that you should just use her where she excels, but personally, I would like my 5 stars to do their job anywhere. That's all my experience though, and if people have different experiences, that's good. I just like to give the caveat of her being expensive based on my own experience to people considering pulling for her.
Yep i also use her with kokomi and kazuha, i still dont have rosaria, she is the only unit i dont have so i replaced her with diona and i must say that ayaka is not great most of the time
@@ajjosh3548Part of the problem is that team. Bennett certainly isn’t terrible with her but not ideal. Especially if he’s C6 then just remove him. Jean provides no grouping which Ayaka really wants. Her ideal teams right now are Kokomi, Shenhe, Kazuha or Furina, Charlotte Kazuha. Sucrose with Ttds can be swapped with Kazuha and you can use rosaria as your cryo alternative if no shenhe.
True. It has no good reactions except freeze which offers no damage boost and is becoming more and more neiche. At least pyro got burgeon and burning and now chevruse is *SPOILERS* Is gonna buff overload alot
Geo is better then cryo at this point. At least they have petra. Cryo has no support except superconduct which sucks and their reliant on a vv anemo to do damage unlike geo and a whole artifacts set (blizzard strayer) that doesn't even work half the time. (Freeze fell off)
Ayaka fallen off is just result of Freeze teams being not META anymore. She works best if you can maximize hitting the enemies with her burst but feels really bad if you dont. No worries, SURELY Cryo element will have time to shine during Snezhnaya.
Ayaka players are learning Ganyu player's agony the hard way. And I see it only getting worse, Hoyo will prolly drop SSS tiers Cryo characters in Shneznaya or maybe even natlan(or not)
Ganyu remained quite stable..... Bcuz of here use case in both 1) freeze and melt. 2) xiangling pure er and new sets 3) benny and morax the usual 4) her ult is 15 sec lasting and 15 second cooldown Making her quite versatile than ayaya. But there is no doubt ayaya generally tends to be more comfy
I think the way they're going to do that is moving Cryo carries away from Freeze. Blizzard Strayer is really hard to be topped in that archetype, and they will definitely add a pair of good sets at 6.0. What they did to Wriothesley is a hint to that: sure he still works like the old-school Freeze carry, but MH is more consistent and the Melt team has a competitive damage ceiling (even higher if using Furina + Burning iirc)
What on earth are you even talking about, an «agony»? Ganyu is still perfectly fine, there are a ton of Ganyu clears with good enough clear time even in her freeze teams. People like you really like to exaggerate the older characters’ falling usage rates for absolutely zero reason. All the while it’s all caused by a completely mundane fact - people tend to get tired from playing the same exact characters over and over, and they simply move to newer units when they accumulate enough funds - it’s not like you get banned from getting primogems after pulling your first five star. There literally aren’t any limited five stars that aren’t capable of clearing abyss, which is the only form of endgame content. Stop doomposting no reason whatsoever.
Honestly you should have talked about her reliance on kazuha in much more depth, its true she's not the only character who benefits greatly from grouping, but missing one or two enemies with ayaka's burst is a much bigger damage loss than not having shenhe, its imperative for making sure your burst opportunities arent wasted and making it so you dont have to reset the chamber as often, other anemo characters just dont compare in any measure, and the difference in ease of use between having and not having kazuha is night and day
She relies on groupers for sure, but I talked about 5* reliance more in the light of "you need to pull this unit for this other unit". Having to pull kazuha for ayaka is not bad to me because you want a Kazuha on the account in general. While it's true that you really want kazuha on the team if you use ayaka and that locks you out of using him with other units, I don't feel like reliance of this kind to another contested unit is exclusive to ayaka
pretty much. since there are only 2 real groupers in this game anyway. venti has no buff and keeps small enemies out of reach so kazuha really is the only option. but yep if you dont have kazuha or even venti, using her ult which is the bulk of her dmg will always be a gamble.
Agree. Enemy pattern and their placement in abyss room can really affect Ayaka performance. Not that she won't clear the abyss, but to get significant better time her 5s nuke must be planned really well. I also felt really bad at my gameplay when I have to use 3 bursts for 3 waves enemies. And to reduce 3 bursts to 2 or even 1 I have to use 100% power of my brain only to be ruined by enemy attack rng.
@@el7284 yeah, that's the thing. It's overkill for one wave. And on the next wave the enemy is too far from burst position. That's why I said planning her burst is needed to not waste it. Most popular solution is to lure the enemy to next wave spawn position and burst there. I assume you are confused that I need 3 burst for 3 waves. Not that I don't meet the dps req, my dps is fine, but the enemy waves placement is scattered and I wasn't playing optimally. Like the enemy waves is scattered enough so half duration of her burst is hitting the air.
It really depends honestly. If you have Shenhe and Mistsplitter you can clear smaller waves in one or two charged attacks. That’s the case for me. Though I don’t know about others because my ayaka has really cracked artifacts that I still can’t find a reason to pull for another hypercarry.
I thinks she's fallen into the same category as venti. Either really really good or really really bad completely depending on the enemy lineup/mechanics. It's not a great position for a character to be in unfortunately. When she works it's awesome and very satisfying, but when she doesn't it's honestly pretty frustrating - much more than any other unit I can remember playing. You really have to know what you are doing to get good results from her, otherwise she feels clunky and has low damage. Now that there are so many other strong carries it's much more of a personal choice to get her and less of a "she's so good you have to pull her" type of character.
There isn’t a single «so good you must pull» main DPS character in the entire game. Not a single one, not even Neuvillette. All of them are preference picks. Concerning enemy lineups / mechanics - what are you even talking about? If the enemies come in waves, then just use Shenhe’s icy quills to buff Ayaka’s charged attacks & finish them off with Kazuha, leaving her burst for the harder enemies, that’s literally it. Concerning «enemy mechanics» - there’s absolutely none worthy of discussion. There aren’t any unfreezable enemies, not a single one, there’s only «freeze-resistance», which is easily overtaken by her fast-hitting burst. Bosses have always been unfreezable, but why would you even play Ayaka against them in the first place? And even if there’s an occasional boss chamber on the AoE side, you can still frontload her burst in just 5 seconds. And even by not playing perfectly, her damage is still far from being low.
@@vladdyru Yes of course you can play whoever you want, but can you genuinely recommend Ayaka over Neuvillette in terms of all around ease of gameplay? I do recognize that a must pull is an outdated term, but when she came out she was pretty damn close to one, although I think this also had to do with the more limited DPS roster compared to what we have now. I disagree with your point about enemies being taken out with the fast hitting burst, as in my experience they will just move out of the way if they cannot be frozen for long enough periods of time. Also idk how saying if you don't play a character right you're not going to do great damage is slander lol.
@@saskia6148There’s no such thing as a must pull, so I wouldn’t recommend any main DPS at all, it’s a matter of personal preference. Neuvillette is objectively the best one scaling-wise, but that doesn’t matter one bit - the current abyss can be cleared with any limited five star, without their respective best team, and even at extremely bad investment. This discussion is essentially pointless, especially considering that it only generates unnecessary hate & attracts basement dwellers like this other guy above. I mainly wanted to point out that comparing completely different characters is a worthless endeavour, nothing more to it.
@@vladdyru idk I feel like the entire point of this video is to have discussions like these - but also i can't see the other comment for some reason and now I'm super curious, could you tell me what it says?
A character you actually have to play, unlike neuv who is relatively speaking a baby handholder. I'll pick Ayaka and even Mistsplitter over him any day of the week
Thank you for the update I generally agree with all the points. I believe the game has reached the point that the more you spend in time and resources on a team archetype you'll see the result you want. All pre dendro team are still clearing the abyss 36 star and the RU-vid videos are clear evidence of this. So pull for a character you want. p.s: a Eula or Ganyu video next. Please 🙏
Pretty much my thoughts on ayaka as well. Funnily enough i got blasted in zajeff daily's comment section for saying exactly this. People need to update their opinions on characters more often. I have C2R1 ayaka, and i often just choose to run some quickbloom keqing team instead, or klee with furina. Not because ayaka is bad, she actually often clears much faster than my other teams, but because the inconsistency is annoying af, especially against garbage enemies like seahorse.
She's strong alright yet expensive, specifically her teams as a main carry, but alas Hyperfridge is my best option for her and god its a weird team but it works too well.
Since you mentioned Ayaka’s reliance on upgrades, I think this video lacks a comment on Ayaka’s performance at different levels of investment outside of freeze teams, specifically in situations like bosses. It’s night and day, many players say Ayaka is perfect for bosses and I agree… if you have tools like Shenhe, Misplitter or Kazuha, but without any of those or only one her monocryo or hypercarry performance in such scenarios drops down significantly compared to freeze AoE ones, to the point that other Ayaka teams like melt with Xiangling and hyperfridge do far better until you reach a certain threshold in terms of not only artifacts quality, but also upgrades like R1 or Shenhe. This is ridiculous if you think about how much those teams (melt, hyperfridge) are despised by the community, you often hear “Ayaka doesn’t work with melt”, “she performs the best in freeze and monocryo, everything else is just bad for her”… but this is simply not true if you can’t freeze and you lack certain upgrades. My very first Abyss clear was with Ayaka melt after trying other teams with her, and it took me a lot to comfortably clear a boss in F12 Abyss with Ayaka (and it was after getting Kazuha).
Ayaka has a special place for me cause I started playing Genshin around 2.6 when we got the eternal ayaka banner. While she wasn't my first 5 star (I got Diluc in my pulls on the Noelle banner) she was the first 5 star I purposefully went for. I have built her "main" team with Shenhe, Kokomi, and Kazuha + built her well. I plan on getting Mistplitter eventually also. That being said it has been a little annoying playing her recently, could be a skill issue but she just doesn't feel as good to play as other characters right now. Hopefully something will happen that makes it a little better to play her in future Abyss cycles
Unfortunately the next abyss lineup seems like not designed for Ayaka. If the leak is true, then 3rd chamber first half is Hydro Tulpa, which pretty hard to kill even in overworld due to Kazuha unable to swirl cryo. First chamber second half is Thunder Manifestation, a boss that move around, this is the only possible place to put Ayaka but, hyperbloom will be much smoother to play without waiting for boss to stand still.
Sad to see my fav character from 2.6 when I started playing and has been 36* since then (first 36* reached only after 135 days playing GI), my only C2 limited character, is very situational to use
Can confirm. As a C4R1 Ayaya haver with her best team of Shenhe, Kokomi and Kazuha, she's still my go to for slapping anything that I feel too lazy to use something else. The damage is so good even against stuff that can't be frozen!
@@Laziotanot even lol. Only reason this one kinda sucks is cuz of pyro lectors but if you have a good boss build you can kill all of chamber 2 in one or two rotations.
With newer units being easier to play, I've started to notice that the design of 2.X units was never as player-friendly as people make it out to be. I agree that Ayaka is difficult to play, but I think even characters like Raiden and Itto, which are known to be easy to pilot, can get pretty strict with combos and timings when you decide to optimize their gameplay. Ayato would be the only exception here, really. Regarding Ayaka, I remember that, after her first rerun (in 2.6 iirc?), the 2.7 Abyss came with lots of Cryo enemies. Things were never the same for her after that. I find it sad, since she was my first 5*, but without primo investment she's bound to be one of the worst performing teams in any account. And pulling that many 5* just to make her competitive isn't exactly appealing (farms for Mistplitter anyway).
why is Raiden there? Raiden is basically a powerhouse in her teams. easy to perform, hard to counter since Raiden National contains all types of elements to counter abyss. its an ungabunga team. just burst burst burst rotate and repeat xD -this is c0 anyway. if Raiden is on C2, man that's totally absurd. raiden hyper carry can deal easy 80-100k slashes on infusion. with initial hit of 400k++ (not crit fishing) not to mention Raiden can be in hyperbloom teams xD
@@lsnexus2080 That hasn't been my experience with my C0 Raiden lately, and it's not like I've invested less into her compared to my other characters. She just performs consistently worse, even if it's not as bad as Ayaka's case. And she's definitely not easier to manage than someone like Alhaitham. As I said, her combos have pretty strict timings. Failing to do a charged attack because her burst just ended is common with her. There's a reason why her 3N3C N1C combo that was usually recommended as her go to for most players no longer is.
@@untipocualquiera635 that's what you call skill issue.there's no strict rotations for raiden teams as long as you have good amount of investment specially if they are well built. all raiden needs to do is to continuously hit enemies and all your teams should get their burst back. Raiden national team should have burst nonstop. if you fail to do that then your builds are not really good. in every Raiden comps that has 250 - 270ER - you should already be able to battery your teams non stop. my xiangling has 240 ER with 241EM 165Cdamage and 60 critrate. bennett has 230ER with aquila favonia and XQ has 220ER with 65/170 ratio. i don't even need to do some crazy things. just burst burst burst before raiden starts her thing. even with just NA no CA can refill their burst nonstop. its Xiangling that has to do damage with XQ vaping 50k++ nonstop. XL and Raiden are additional damage. on top of it. players without skill issues has been continuously destroying abyss with that team.
@@lsnexus2080 It's not skill issue, you're not even responding to what I was saying. You keep bringing Rational up as if it was the pinnacle of Raiden teams. It's not. It is very easy to play, but it's in part because Raiden's damage is less impactful. You're punished less for making mistakes. The thing is you can play teams that are just as easy to play and not only have higher ST damage, but also infinitely better AoE. Or do we ignore Neuvillette, Alhaitham in Quickbloom, Yae in Aggravate or even Taser teams with Furina? These teams include on-field combos that are easy to do, have more flexible rotations and higher floor and ceiling. They reward investment more than Rational does. Raiden's battery potential isn't all that. You can just bring better batteries instead. Those do exist, in fact. So you're left with her damage and, at C0, while good, it isn't giving her peers much competition. At the moment, her flexibility is her main claim to fame.
i dont know, ayaka is still okay solely because of her infinite cryo infusion. but she still good in this abyss atleast because they expect us to play hydro and pyro in this version of abyss imo
They made Inazuma characters to expensive to build and to have balanced damage, but with Fontaine they just went like whaterever just put a lot of damage so they can be built with whatever and they are good to go
they only went like that with neuvillette tho? wriothesley & furina has some weird hp mechanics. lyney is a better ganyu but pyro. navia? is surely not gonna be at neuvi's level. so nah they only did that to neuvillette.
@masrgym8355 no, it's definitely how they made fontaine. Alot of Fontaine characters can be more flexible in teams in terms of building and be consistant in dmg while not having to rely on super tight rotations like alot of inazuma characters. The hp mechanics are a buff to the characters and can be gained back using healers and their own skills.
People forget that abyss is literally fixed to promote character pulls. Ayaka will return to dominance whenever Hoyo wants to sell Ayaka. It’s that simple. For all Neuvilette’s strength he’ll be little more than a teapot ornament if Hoyo brings chambers with hydro immunity on both sides.
This sounds like the silliest objection. Hoyo does not introduce hard counters like that, they simply make soft counters to incentivize you into playing the newer meta characters. And from looking at the past Neuvillette seems like he will be good for another region after Fontaine before Hoyo will promote a team that can handle newly designed enemies and mechanics better than him. Ayaka's dominance? It is a thing of the past, she will only resurge in some usage rate clinging on to the abyss that Hoyo creates to sell their next cryo characters.
Yeah except that actual top tier characters dont need abyss to be designed just for them to be good (Neuv, Haitham, even Xiangling). Ayaka is just a niche character nowaday: heavily rely on abyss matchups to be at least "decent", and even then her premium full limited 5-star teams cant compete with f2p Neuv and Haitham teams. And before ppl brought up "c4r1 Ayaka c61 Shenhe" into this, Neuv teams and Haitham teams also have much higher and better ceiling with more investments too (c2+ Nahida, c2+ Furina etc).
I got ayaka but her damage feels bad if you miss her burst or all attacks dont connect, then there's the issue of building her burst up again and what happens inbetween
@@divinesan7786 that's not true, even in freeze sometimes enemies have high mobility but can't be grouped like the rifthound, it's so dependant on getting the right timing which makes you press the retry button. it's up to you tho, hope you still have your hair
Then learn positioning ? People are so much focusing on her burst that they forget that her autos exist to make sure you can get enough time to group enemies .
I really don't think she's that much worse than she used to be, but admittedly I haven't been paying much attention lol. Lately "Meta" has come to mean "most recent tactic available" rather than "most effective tactic available." Alot of these older units/teams from before Dendro still work, but people have mainly focused on Dendro and the HP manipulation characters Fontaine has brought and with good reason; they're what's on rateup right now.
Ayaka’s strength can really depend on the level of investment. Though for ayaka it’s much easier to stack crit damage because of blizzard strayer. For me, she’s strong enough to kill any non boss enemies in Abyss 12 in 5 seconds. That’s why I think she’s still top tier.
if strong enough to kill non boss enemies on f12 make character top tier, every character is toptier then lmao. even barbara bloom and amber melt pass abyss full star.
As a f2p, Ayaka can feel pretty underwhelming. Not being able to reach the damage threshold feels really bad. Hence why i like the furina team more, i definitely feel its more f2p friendly and casual friendly than her pre-furina premium nuke teams
@@sanadye1861 thats with shenhe kazuha and kokomi/mona, without one of them her dmg goes down by 130k each, And also 1M dpr is trash for having an all 5 star team
@@qwertysysysyysysysyzz Bad? A 1 million burst rotation clears everything outside of bosses but she has a boss variant team that does more damage than that. Your team comp you said can easily reach a 2 million damage rotation. C0r1 Ayaka with shenhe, Mona/koko/c2 furina, and kazu comfortably hits between 50-60k ticks and this isn’t even accounting her 100k+ charged attacks and 60-80k skills. Her burst alone is 1 million plus, use the rest of her kit and she becomes a menace. A c2 ayaka melt boss comp when the 3 hit idc functions properly works can go up to a 3-5 million rotation depending on investment. She’s still extremely strong dps and just because cryo isn’t as desirable rn doesn’t take away from the insane dmg capabilities she has.
@@sanadye1861 c2 furina lul imagine needing c2 furina, kazuha, shenhe and mistsplitter just to deal 1M dpr, also u arent gonna be charge atking on ayaka much since you will spend her downtime batterying her and 3M dpr is massive stretch the most she does is 1.2M
Ayaka rotation execution with Shenhe, Kazuha, Mona is almost exactly 12 seconds since from Shenhe E to Ayaka ultimate. That mean right after Ayaka using ultimate, you can swap to Shenhe and E again then swap to kazuha and E again to reapply all of their buff and effect. If you strip that, you lose the Shenhe E boosts for Ayaka ultimate which is a big multiplier with all of the other buff stuff the team has. The team is even more demanding of perfect execution than Childe national and relies on Prototype Amber Mona as the healing source (if you are casual and takes damage somehow). However the ceiling is still unmatched to this day and she is still the premium character for speed run along side Hutao. Ayaka, Hutao and Nilou are also operate in different team support entirely so speed runner never have issue overlapping these characters. My ayaka usually 1 rotation a boss when I planned well after some reset of the pattern. She is so well made and well balanced. If you get good you also get better reward for playing her. Genshin player nowadays cater to more casual so the all the hard rotation is no more but only remains with the infinite up time but moderate buff and field damage.
Basically, be a slave to Alhaitham and Neuvillette. I have both and both are benched. I now prefer to use Tighnari's team and whatever I can do without those two. Neuvillette has one of the most boring and anticlimatic gameplay aka charge and rotate. Alhaitham is good but it gets boring to play with him. They are strong but where's the fun in all of this? I considered getting Ayaka because I want a freeze team buuuut I'm going to feed my queen Raiden with c2 instead. I just wished that Ayaka was good with hyperfridge because I really like hyperfriedge. It's getting tiring all these "not worthy when you have Alhaitham and Neuvillette".
Lol same I have both and I clear abyss with childe on one half and cyno on the other always will since those are my fav ones and honestly speaking meta wise too childe international is comparable to neuvill and cyno with furina baizhu can compete with alhaitham in single targets specifically so yea just play with fav chars
It's a repeating cycle. Ayaka was at top in past and she also was described as anticlimatic braindead and boring because she was too strong. Just wait until wait for natlan and nuev will be the underdog 😂
Agreed 100%, the idea of comparing literally any unit to Alhaitham & Neuvillette is ridiculous. Like yes, they have better scalings than the majority of this game's characters. But so what? Why is that information treated as some kind of forbidden knowledge? Is there like a literal ban on pulling anyone but them now, and if you don't abide by that, you get banned from the Mickey Mouse Club? Actual delusion, man.
This isn't "Who's the most fun character/gameplay" but "Who's the meta". Mathematics back it up. If you're doing great with Tighnari and whatever then enjoy it because you're clearly already know what you're doing. From a META (Most Efficient Tactic Available) perspective, it's not worth your time and investment right now. Sure maybe in the future it will be but that's the future, not right now. As for fun, yeah I enjoy Ayaka a lot and one of my go to characters in the abyss because it matches my play style. Same as mono geo with Noelle as the carry. Those play styles are fun to me but maybe for you it isn't and that's okay. Charged attack focus characters like Ganyu, Tighnari and Lyney aren't fun for me. Since you like Tighnari then it's fun for you and it's okay to keep enjoying it. No need to seek validation and just disagree with this video because you don't want to be a slave with Al Haitham and Neuvillette.
9:27 Well since you showed this (debatably infamous 😋) tier list, how about a new video on Raiden since she will rerun soon too. I see Raiden is put in the highest tier, but only at C2, and as a MainDps. So how much value does c0 Raiden bring to a f2p account? Ive got Kuki and Ive got Childe, so both hyperbloom and national are covered for me. What else can a c0 Raiden provide?
Cryo never fell off, it was always "just fine", the best cryo characters has been Kaeya only at C6 and only between 1.0 and 1.3, on 1.4 Rosaria was better Kaeya but its a role you dont really value in a teamcomp, but she could carry Melt playstyle for a little more, then we got Ayaka on 2.0 but she didnt bloom until 2.4 with Shenhe and they both are tailored together since then, but the output of the team was very equal at that time with other good teams, the impact was only that she was Burst focused so you see more big number in little time window, and cryo stoped get any improvement until Wriothesley that is in some way another Ayaka but you change Frontload DMG for Sustained DMG what synergize better with more modern units and playstyles, he can carry melt better and all but his output is just fine too, nothing have powercreeped Cryo itself for a while, and it haven't changed playtyles too much neither, Cryo need more tailored units for specific gameplays with good upsides and downsides, is just has been a very plain element for a while
Bro forgot about Ganyu. For over a year after she was released the game was basically Ganyu impact. Even if you don't like her playstyle you had to admit she was absolutely one of the strongest carries in the game for a good amount of time.
@@saskia6148 oh true mb there, she was good bc of the abyss lineup only and bc Venti was snergystic with her both for lineup and burst similarities, the moment venti died on 2.0 also did she died with it, and they released a more synergystic cryo carry at the same time on 2.0, while ganyu freeze was never actually over the line by herself but due to what happen around her (venti, abyss lineup, lower HP cealing of enemies that were also easier to kill for her), melt also existed with moderate impact, but also a DMG output in line with other options at the time, same as Ayaka. she was never "one of the strongest carries" but she was part of "one of the best teamcomps" for a while context changed for Ganyu/Venti and she deflated harder than Ayaka.
What are you even struggling with? Most Fontaine enemies aren’t even freeze-resistant. Only the local legends are, but they have an actual hydro aura. If you can’t even freeze them, then I can only assume that you haven’t discovered the buttons which activate the characters’ skills & bursts, you should probably work on that.
Oh how mighty have fallen. Abyss contain more and more bosses and some enemies resist freezing. When it works it works, but if not its not only inefficient but also boring to play freeze
Like, in terms of investment, ayaka r1 shenhe kokomi kazuha is just as expensive as cyno r1 nahida furina baizhu. Not the best thing to compare ayaka with cyno, but the meta changed definitely
o.o? Ayaka still op. Fontaines enemys are so darn easy to beat with her lol Mine use just a perfect(means no useless substats)gladiator set and Jade Sword. Both no dupes upgrades. I pick alot Ayaka if I want to beat most world bosses or annoying enemys quick.
There is. Ayaka is strong at c0 but the problem still is what is explained. She has no flexibility. The moment you miss any enemies or the burst as a whole you've lost alot of dmg potential. Not to mention her high ER% requirements. Wriothesley Is more flexible in team comps, consistant dmg and has easier time gaining his burst back even for freeze team reactions. He surpasses ayaka at c1.
I’m pretty biased when it comes to her because she literally carried me for three years straight even when some bosses weren’t freezable. Of course, it’s been harder and harder nowadays to use her but she’s still good, to me
Ayaka won't be making a comeback with freeze, melt, or mono-cryo teams. Freeze and mono-cryo are unreliable by nature and Ayaka has no synergy with melt teams whether forward or reverse. The chance of her becoming a burst sub dps for a future superconduct team is unlikely, but its at least not impossible. The most plausible resurgence for Ayaka is she ends up working well somehow with a new element in a few years.
I actually benched Neuvillette a few days after I was done building him specifically because he's just too simple and too strong for my liking. Ayaka requiring strategy and positioning makes her way more interesting to play imo. That said, I understand why from a performance and comfort standpoint most people would prefer more modern carries over her.
As a long time Ayaka enjoyer I have to say she is absolutely amazing in farming domains, exploring and slaying in the abyss, provided there are no cryo resistant mobs. And this is the main isssue - lately, there are many cryo resistant mobs in the abyss. Also regarding missing her burst. Honestly? It's not that difficult NOT to miss it. Like seriously, I if this is the thing that prevents you from pulling you can safely stop worring about it. I have Shenhe but at the moment my favourite Ayaka team is with Furina, Kokomi and Kazuha - absolutely slaying.
@@Sable813 Sucrose is fine, she just needs a bit more skill to group up the enemies which Ayaka appreciates. Kazuha is like an easy one whoosh and done kinda guy.
@@Sable813 without kazuha is fine. but you'd want shenhe if you want good team. Shenhe makes any cryo strong. don't listen to clowns saying you need blablabla and premium team to do good. any teams needs a certain comps. a lot of them uses 5stars too. specially kazuha and archons having a total of 3 5star in a team. all 5star at times. for example, my current team for Hutao is HuTao Yelan Furina Jean - all 5stars. even other dendro 5stars. main dps of 5star + nahida and probably baizu.
Honestly though, maybe it's just my luck but I experienced so many instances where her burst misses. I have triple crowned C0R1 Ayaka, but it's so easy lose a lot of damage because either: 1) unfreezable boss enemies moves/dodges, or 2) cluster of mobs are not grouped enough. Given that her damage falls off after her burst, it's really frustrating.
Ayaka needs some effort to play and some investment. Landing a full burst is a really satisfying moment in recent abyss cycles. I play her often but it's a reset fiesta and I can't really recommend her nowadays to new players.
I still use her and never stopped using her in abyss 😂 now after Furina she's more fun to play She nowhere fell off but enemies now have too many varieties and some need specific type of characters to be defeated in time.
Hey man, great vid A question, if you had to choose between Mistsplitter and engulfing for the upcoming patch, for someone who has, Ayaka, Shenhe and Raiden C2, which one would you choose?
She is only top tier in very high investiments, if you have her with 4 star weapon, no Shenhe etc the damage diff will be HUGE, very low F2P potential on this character, and most of the negative commentes about her are very accurate
I think she's got a lot of use and I don't regret pulling for her ... but I admin, I've never bothered to finalise her artifacts and though levelled and equipped, by the smith, I've never actually used her outside event trials. I just kept using Mona.
The thing with Ayaka is that one of the only characters that use all of her kit, you can use burst, people don’t talk about her skill but she does 100 -150k hits sometimes and her normal attack being infused with cryo make her so fun to play, but I must agree if you want a most simple and powerful unit then go for neuvillete
those people probably did not pull for Shenhe wherein all teams in genshin needs certain team comp. some of them even uses 5star supports. some ven use all 5star team.
@@lsnexus2080 yeah, that’s why I said always focus on the characters you like and their best teams, don’t pull like crazy and save for constellations, cuz is funny some people on videos says for example Ayaka is expensive, but at the same time they tell you Alhaitham good dps and cyno good dps (skipping the part you need full 5 supports as well), Ayaka on F2P can do 30k ticks, while in premium teams can go to 60k ticks, Neuvillete is good, but people need to realise that current abyss is hydro favoured, I solod it with furina
@@nunaneto yep they failed to realize that other teams also have premium teams xD and abyss keeps changing. its not like an element is falling off. more of the how abyss floors favors the element(depending on what banner we have)
@@lsnexus2080 yup current abyss is always related to current characters, when natlan comes it will be for pyro, when cryo archon comes it will be for cryo
@@lsnexus2080 Honestly I lost 2 50/50 early pity on Alhaitham banners. I like him but not enough to spend everything and grind for him. But the thing is I can't get one copy of Kuki and she is on his best team. Even now I don't want Cyno and Ayato. I al garantee so I want to spend my garantee on a 5 stars I want. So I can say, it can be even worse to get Alhaitham best team.
bro every time i cant clear something I just use Ayaka and it's cleared. Stopped playing the game for 6 months and I came back when Dendro was favored in the abyss and Ayaka still shit on it.
wrio is the strongest c6 cryo as of the moment. but only 1% have him at c6.at c0 Ganyu and ayaka are both stronger than wrio. but sure if you are playing C6 level. though for c6 players that doesn't really mean a lot due to C6 characters are way powerful for the game to handle. even a C6 dehya can beat the hardest content anyday. this is why those meta usually is being focused around c0 teams.
Still clearing every Abyss with her. Don't pull for her if she's gonna be one of your 5 carries. She requires investment. A lot of it. On another note, Is she "now competing with Neuvillette and Alhaitham"? Seriously? For what? It's like saying that F1 pilots are competing on who can finish a lap in less than 30 minutes. There's no "competing" for anything in this game, except competing for attention.
@@qwertysysysyysysysyzz different element though. and yes its comparable not weaker. out of 3, alhaitham hyperbloom will be weakest against a boss (this is ofc high investment teams that has been playing since day 1) HuTao being the strongest on single target. Ayaka stands at the middle ground. on AOE, if enemies can be grouped and you know what you are doing, Ayaka will clear fastest against these 3. otherwise you're not playing long enough as an end game player. a good Ayaka mains have been hitting 50-60k per tick of her burst and can spam her burst over and over. (this is with shenhe and Mistsplitter with a bit of ER and high crit damage). if you factor in constellations then it will be even worst. that cryo comp will surpass alhaitham and hutao teams. that Shenhe Ayaka combo is just deleting anything without burst.
@@lsnexus2080 lol alhaitham destroys hutao or ayaka even with 3star weap at c0, mine already hits for 50k per spread on a special 2-hit icd, while having hyperblooms to back him up, Also 55k per tick fully buffed ayaka is not out dmging alhaitham or hu tao lmao and shenhe buffs run out after 5-10 hits depending on if u know how to use her so after 10 hits your dmg buff is halved.
@@qwertysysysyysysysyzz im not talking about 3star weapon but 5star weapon. again i'm not talking about low investment teams. HuTao is not better for AOE and AL isn't either.you probably only rely on dendro comps because your teams haven't been fully invested. and yes that 50k is not Shenhe's icyquills. that's her average with high invested ayaka. your ayaka must be weak then. you should see ayaka players doing 50k consistently with shenhe's burst, kazuha and kokomi if your team has good investment. and yes it can outdamage AL since AL's damage takes longer time than Ayaka who dealt 20hits of burst in 5s. also against boss AL wouln't be clearing faster. its HuTao who wins in ST. or are you talking about AL with C2 Nahida? then ofc that team will be better xD there's no archon yet to support cryo comps as of the moment. we will have to wait for Cryo archon and see how Cryo will do again if you are comparing with C2 Nahida ofc. and i repeat, dendro comps are good for low investment characters. but the same thing cannot be said for high investment teams. factoring constellations way up to C6 then AL will even get destroyed with AYA Shenhe combo. -we've seen every speedruns for this and always has been a thing
I want her cons BUT after playing Genshin for a year, I am picking up on how strong supports cons are over main/hypers cons. AKA Furina, Yelan, Shenhe, Raiden (battery wise) I know the Tsaritsa will be here in like 2 years, which is a ways off, and maybe I will change my mind about Ayaka's cons, but I see Shenhe's cons more valuable than Ayaka's for future Cryo carries, especially the Cryo Archon. Looking at Ayaka's cons, like c1, c2, you would have to have Shenhe's c1 at least because her c2 will eat Shenhe's icy quills at c0 quick. Plus Shenhe gives Ayaka 15% CD on her burst at c2. Yes Ayaka's c2 gives more tics on her mini Snowstorms, BUT Shenhe's cons buffing that would make it even stronger. Maybe I will feel comfortable pulling cons on Ayaka once I have more on Shenhe, but Shenhe to me is future proof, considering we haven't made it to the land of Cryo yet. IMO, I often wonder if thats why HoYo gave us Ayaka and Hu Tao, two very strong carries, early on because their visions' nations were so far off? IDK just a theory. Regardless, I love Ayaka. Freeze is my favorite team comp because I LOVE crowd control. We'll see what happens, for now at least, I am waiting for Shenhe's cons 1st. ty 4 the vid!
@@3.16music Any character that can consistently clear in 1 : 30 or less on his side in any abyss rotation is meta. Abyss is the only piece of hard content currently available in the game. Any unit that can beat it without being carried by the second team's clear time is meta. End of story.
Been using mono cryo Shenhe/ayaka since Shenhe first release. Mostly always on the second half they are boss slayers. Can always 36 star. Layla/ Kazuha/Shenhe/ayaka I think is the most all around strongest Ayaka team works for mobs and bosses. Layla shield allow you to do a lot more Ayaka charge attacks without interruption. Lmao I even managed to use them against the cryo resistant boss in recent abyss ( got c2 r1 from reruns )
ayaka was my first limited 5 star, and as a f2p with a pretty good ayaka and no shenhe and mistsplitter, ive been able to clear most abysses with some form of aoe with her just fine. however, gotta emphasize what you said abt skill expression. with ayaka, especially in this 4.2 abyss, i have to actively think abt grouping the enemies, and the wolves can be a real pain. i also have to not accidently infuse kazuha's burst with pyro, or it'll mess up my freezes and the enemies will ungroup. i personally like this skill expression, i find thinking abt whether or not to burst more engaging than doing the same rotation over and over. also, it's really satisfying when her burst just obliderates everything. but yeah, def not a must pull
9:18 what? I have found it to be the exaxt opposite in my play. Where if I don't want to bother learning an emeies attack patterns i just freeze them. (Concentrated beasts abyss is a good example). There are so many enemies that i just don't know the attack patterns for because freeze. I know that abyss has a lot of bosses but a well built ayaka can just nuke them. I'm just confused on how you consider a freeze unit to not be braindead
Didn't particularly like her, I pulled Ayaka because I wanted to complete my cryo collection. Regret it since she needs a lot to reach her potential, which is shenhe(that I don't mind) Mona/Kokomi, Venti/Kazuha. Not to mention, we don't have the fontaine sword at that time, so also a 5* weapon. I blame my minmax personality, but she's expensive af
@@Forakus, that's why content creators release C6 showcases, right? Because no one cares. Get over yourself. There are many opinions in this world beyond your own.
I got Ayaka on her first banner, and I haven't used her since around 2.5 or 2.6. Missing with her burst just became too much of a headache once we were introduced to more fleety enemies. It's a shame too, because I really like her Fontaine outfit. I should dust her off at some point though and invest time in honing my skills with her. I'm still building other characters from Sumeru though, as I had taken a break after 3.3, and didn't come back until just before 4.0, so it may be a while before I bring her out again.
She does have an incredibly demanding team in terms of investment but once you have an actual built team for her, most content is pretty much no effort. Of course, that doesn’t include mobile bosses but even then, they usually have a moment of vulnerability where Ayaka’s ridiculous front loaded damage would evaporate them or at the very least do enough damage to finish it off in 1 more rotation. She is still incredibly good. The Marachaussee/Golden Troupe domain takes me around 10 seconds from the moment I start it. Deepwood/Gilded is every faster. She makes light work of the artifact domains that most people are farming right now.
@@Wreckedandruinedand Id rather not tell you to save u from his insanity but since u asked, its sekapoko. Just go to his twitch channel and see his last stream. He made a tier list and that list makes gamepress tier lists look like the bible.
Not quite equal as everyone always rejected Keqing for Ayaka only. Along with the next patch (4.3) featuring Ayaka visiting Fontaine to making a new shows
I completely agree sometimes I never even use her in the abyss(talents crowed).I lead more towards reaction teams like even keqing feels better in many situations.also to add she’s not flexible at all…
I used to be able to play ayaka melt if freeze didn't work, but I accidentally c6d my bennett which basically killed that team😂 Been gathering dust ever since
I’ve considered pulling her, but I fear not using her because the abyss doesn’t favor her. I’ve had a similar situation with Ganyu, but Ganyu has been a really good sub dps for Furina double hydro. Ayaka can’t really be played as sub dps so I struggle to justify pulling for a slightly stronger freeze character.
The interaction works as far as I know, the issue is there isn't a reason to use it over Marechausse, especially with how much lower value the vermillion domain is since it's a worse set and echoes is also a generally bad set. Strongbox wise you'll nearly always be better off getting Virdescent, emblem, or specific dps sets like crimson witch or Blizzard strayer. The atk on Vermillion is less valuable than the damage % and crit on Marechaussue and Vermillion requires the character to start the rotation with burst.
@twigz3214 look I don't care about resin efficiency or all that. I'm just wondering what characters are good with it not named xiao not that furina is here
@@adeekfaizal5068 I don't think any on-fielder that could use the attack want to start with burst. Alhaithamn starts with burst but heavily prefers em, dmg% and crit and you could probably make it work on Raiden but doubt it would be better than Emblem. Ayato and Cyno could both also make it work but highly prefer Marechausse, and Ayato doesn't have much synergy with Furina anyway.
