I Own also a B&T 308 but Carbine Version (14'' Barrell). Build it up a very similar way like in the video. I really had some starting problems with the rifle and i can full agree on all points in the video: Trigger is not so sexy, the safety is wtf hard, bolt catch was stiff as hell and it kicked very hard. Also in the beginning the bolt didn't always locked behind when the Mag was empty. How ever i have now around 5-6k Round on it. What i can say from my experience with the rifle: - It seems to need in the beginning more lub/oil on the bolt and carrier to run prop, i had very good results with the "Ballistol Ceramic Oil". after few hundred rounds it runs smoother (Bolt will always lock when mag is empty). - The weapon is close to be undergased, so it is more a b..ch in case of ammo - With Pmags it runs very very good, but don't put the rifle on the mag when you are prone, you will get feeding problems. - There is the "Pro" version with "non recipiting charging handle" - SCAR 17 comes with muzzle breaks from the factory, installing a break on the APC308 will make the rifle also much more smother to shoot. Muzzle breaks on 308 rifles are not a bad thing compared to 556 rifles. However the SCAR 17 kicks also very hard when the break is removed. - Bolt catch will get smoother, will remain a b..ch, same like safety... - Suppressed it works like charm. Its the cleanest weapon i ever shot with suppressor and this as an left hand shooter is very pleasant. The Adjustable gassystem is in this case perfect balanced. Conclusion: For me as an Swiss, the APC308 is an acceptable replacement/trade off for an Scar 17, as it cost the half (3k vs 6-7k) and i get a very very good customer service from B&T in Switzerland, from FN i will get nothing here. I don't know how it is in the US. If the APC308 costs the same or close like a Scar 17: get the hell the Scar. On the latest "Pro" Version, they changed buffer and gasetube, and more, so lets see what they changed... Maybe this comment will help someone :) Last point: great videos, i realy enjoying it as you bring it fast, precise and straight to the point 💯:
Thank you so much for the comment, in the US, the scar is the same price as the apc 308, I am planning to buy either the scar or 308 pro soon and I’m still on the fence, I own many B&t products and I love Swiss made, but the scar is tried and true and I get good service in the US
It’s popular in Canada because it’s the only non-shit modern rifle that we can have after the OIC. Is it overpriced for what you get? Absolutely, but when it’s either that or a 180 jam-o-matic clone or a Norinco rifle…the Swiss Miss looks mighty appealing.
Well said, Mah Buddy Keith. There are few if any reasonable alternatives in the great White socialist authoritarian North, and this is about the only thing available that is of decent capability.
@@Reggie5113 You can have it fun and quality, but it don’t come cheap. You can have cheap and fun, but it isn’t quality. You can have it quality and cheap, but it isn’t fun.
Yep agreed. It’s my next purchase for sure. Just got a norinco type 81 SE and love it so far but wouldn’t mind something with a bit more power and little more tactical.
I have a B&T APC308 DMR set up similarly with the ACR stock. I can't disagree with anything you said. Overall: Heavy, sluggish action, mediocre trigger, less than desirable recoil impulse (I'd rather shoot my HK91). I have had reliability issues from the beginning -- all failures to feed -- at the start as frequently as 5 times per 20rd mag. Sometimes the bolt would not reciprocate far enough to the rear to even attempt to pick up a new round from the magazine, despite ejecting the spent casing. Other times the bolt would be so slow and sluggish coming forward that it doesn't chamber a new round more than halfway and gets stuck there. It has improved after purchasing new buffers / stock adapters (from B&T, for the Magpul ACR stock like in your video). Even the "pistol" endplate buffer it came with gave me failures to feed. The first new buffer I purchased from B&T did not help at all. And since there are only 2 settings for the gas system (normal and suppressed), there wasn't much to do there to help me. So I purchased yet another B&T ACR stock adapter with a new buffer. This one has been much better reliability wise. The most I've gone is 5 mags without a malfunction. However I still get the occasional FTF, maybe once every mag at most on average; and my ejection pattern could be described as lazy at best at 4:30-5 o'clock and barely any distance -- as a lefty shooter when prone the brass will often just land in my shoulder/neck or on top of my back (ouch). This is all with numerous full power 7.62 NATO and .308 brass, no cheap stuff. Also somewhat magazine picky. The most success I've had are with KAC SR-25 magazines and the Magpul mag it came with. Forget about even trying LaRue, Duramag, ASC, Lancer, etc mags in it. My current hypothesis with my reliability issues is maybe the barrel gas port hole is just a tad small from normal spec.... we'll see. As for my accuracy with it: prone + bipod + Trijicon VCOG at 8x + Federal GMM = 1 MOA average. M80 ball ammo varies btwn 1.5 - 2.5 MOA. The Swiss pistol grip is skinny as hell and hurts my medium sized hands, replaced it with a Magpul MIAD grip. I look forward to contacting B&T, hopefully have them diagnose and solve the issues, test it for reliability when I get it back, and then can't wait to hopefully be able to sell it off. "Swiss SCAR but better"? Not even close. Machining / engineering quality, fit and finish? Sure, it's immaculate in that respect. But everything else -- I'd take a SCAR over this any day. By DMR designation comparison my LMT MARS-H DMR puts this thing to shame without even breaking a sweat. Enjoying this video series, keep it up 👍
Mine has a crazy consistent ejection pattern, throwing them about 6 or 8 feet over your shoulder. Havent had much reliability issues either, but i have only run 500 rounds thru it. Ive heard people say they have issues but luckily havent seen them myself. For the price they should all be flawless. The machining seems top notch, i dont know why quality control is all over the place.
I have shot the 14.3” carbine quite a bit. It’s been awesome. Trigger was good out of the box (it’s not a geissele ssa-e or Larue MBT. But it’s perfectly acceptable. I don’t know what y’all are talking about with the recoil. Mine is very mild on the carbine version at least. Been totally reliable with everything from Tula steel, to Vietnam era ball, to federal GMM. Was actually getting surprisingly good accuracy with Remington 150 gr core lokt. I can imagine the dmr is pretty damn heavy. 14.3” carbine with side folding stock, razor 1-10 on adm sl mount, Troy micros, aac 51t flash hider p&w, mlok rail covers, tango down full length vertical grip, Surefire mini scout w/ tape switch, sling w/ qd swivels, qd sockets, and full 20 round pmag weighed in at almost 12.25 pounds. I think the dmr would be 2-2.5 pounds heavier.
I have 3 B&T’s. Each have a better stock trigger than any stock AR I’ve seen. That said there is some variation between my trigger, but it’s not much. Most people speak favorably of the stock trigger. I know you have to report on the gun you are testing, but my guess is that the trigger you tested is an exception. Thank you for the video and your impressions!
I really like my apc308 but with that said it has the short comings that he talked about. Buy a trigger immediately when buying the gun. It takes ar15 triggers NOT ar10 triggers. Next take off every drop of gun lube that it comes with and grab a can of flexifilm and apply liberally (solves failure to feed issue in extreme temperatures cold or hot) as we found the issues start with the gun lube it comes with as it gets too thick in colder temperatures and evaporates in warmer times. Next get a break. We got the m11 and it basically made it recoiless. The original stock is garbage and you will need an adapter to put on the stock you want. The last thing is ammo. We found with the 1/12 twist any ammo over the 150g mark will not stabilize. We ran the cheapest 143g we could get and it shot .91 moa all day. We could get hits at 708m consistently on an 8" plate. After all that she's a heavy bitch so hit the gym. Hope this info helps anyone that is having similar problems.
Yes, agree. I waited on the 805 and Bren 2S, I’ll add the 308. I’ve had good results with B&T and I’ll have an APC308 before the CZ 308 will make it to the USA.
@@tedbaxter5234 i got the ghm9 love it. getting a bren 2 in the future in 5.56 tho. buying a scar 17 in couple weeks. was gonna get the apc308 but with the pricces im just getting s scar 17s. might get a apc10 in the future for bear gun instead of my glock 20.
Been running the same gun for two years now in feral hog. Got a USO 1-6 ffp lpvo in an adm qd mount. Rugged 762 suppressor and an AGM victrix clip on thermal. Fourteen deer and more hogs than I can count. By far the smoothest 308 I shot. the bolt release will break in with time or your fingers will get stronger. Also the factory trigger absolutely sucks.
Worse recoil than a scar…? That’s all you had to say. I really wanted a scar, until I actually shot one. Hated it. Can’t wait to see your video of the new PSA Sabre AR-10!
The reviewer is unaware all B&T firearms are tight as fuck until broken in. After a few hundred rounds, the external safety is much easier to actuate, as are the other mentioned parts, including the trigger. The SCAR is excellent, but the APC308 has it beat. Recommendations: 1) B&T APC308 Tied for 2) CZ BREN 2Ms in .308 and Robinson Armament XCR-M in .308 Tied for 3) SCAR-17S and SIG MCX SPEAR in .308 4 and 5 somewhere in here) The HK762 Series is the finest semi auto .308 semiauto “battle rifle”-esque AFA quality, pedigree, durability, reliability, accuracy, etc. But as this list is composed of non-buffer-tube AR-10 alternatives, the Tavor 7, new PTR 91, or Galil ACE could be considered in this top-five list.
Now I understand your reply from the last comment I made lol. However, there’s not that many bad reviews on the platform. And you might be the only person claiming that the APC308 recoils more than the SCAR-17…..that hydraulic buffer has been praised by many. Chris from Small Arms Solutions gives it high praise and made comparisons to the SCAR and other platforms. And like I said, there’s “Pro” versions of all B&T rifles now. So that means the reciprocating charging handle is gone and there’s newly designed furniture. I couldn’t help but notice that this example of the APC308 looks like the first Gen? The trigger while not perfect, is ALOT better than the SCAR’s. The bolt action itself is WAY smoother than that clunky/springy mess on the SCAR. Now the safety, bolt catch/release ARE indeed STIFF AS OAK but, eventually break in. But the accuracy is sublime, considering it’s not a bolt gun or internal piston. I’ve seen both platforms run around the same price range and I just feel like the B&T has 3x the build quality/precision. So if I had to, I’d pay an extra couple hundred for the B&T.
For context how many rounds are you putting through these "battle rifles"? Love the video series, you're doing the Lord's work keep it up and Merry Christmas.
@@110sassactual I think you've jumped to an unwarranted conclusion on this. T. Rex arms did a reliability video on a high and AR-15 .308 and the thing started malfunctioning after 1500 rounds. At 3000 rounds, it stopped functioning altogether due to a broken bolt extractor and some other issues. The APC308 bolt group, on the other hand, is much more substantial and therefore robust (in my opinion) than any AR bolt group because the bolt carrier is essentially machined from a solid block of what I assume is (4140, 4145 or 8620) steel. The extra mass of the APC 308 is due to long term reliability design criteria, and not just what a typical civilian AR-15 is used for (weekend shoots, with a couple hundred rounds max put through it before it is sold for some new concoction). So contrary to what you said is relevant, the inclusion of an APC 308 is extremely relevant because I assert the extra weight (particularly in the mechanical cycling components) will result in a much higher reliability outcome than competing AR pattern and SCAR rifles. And by extension of this relevancy, inclusion of the APC 308 IS EXACTLY WHAT YOUR VIEWERS WANT TO SEE, as it will allow us to directly view the competing engineering objectives of WEIGHT VS. RELIABILITY.
I have a SCAR17 and agree. It’s not pleasant to shoot with that brake on there for sure, maybe it’s better if I can change that and get rid of the excessive concussion
The reviewer is unaware all B&T firearms are tight as fuck until broken in. After a few hundred rounds, the external safety is much easier to actuate, as are the other mentioned parts, including the trigger. The SCAR is excellent, but the APC308 has it beat. Recommendations: 1) B&T APC308 Tied for 2) CZ BREN 2Ms in .308 and Robinson Armament XCR-M in .308 Tied for 3) SCAR-17S and SIG MCX SPEAR in .308 4 and 5 somewhere in here) The HK762 Series is the finest semi auto .308 semiauto “battle rifle”-esque AFA quality, pedigree, durability, reliability, accuracy, etc. But as this list is composed of non-buffer-tube AR-10 alternatives, the Tavor 7, new PTR 91, or Galil ACE could be considered in this top-five list.
Could you get IWI to send you a Carmel? Maybe some of the fellow viewers might like it. I happen to love mine and hope it can gain more traction for some aftermarket TLC for small gripes. I’m so used to her now I hate my ARs now they feel like toys. Overall she’s my main especially since IWI sells spare parts for maintenance but I can say she’s still clean after running her with Aero Lahar 30. One of my gripes is that it leaks gas when suppressed from top panels similar to how the x95 with the side panels. I also would like to see design with lightening cuts in rail not for how chunky she is that just means there’s more of her to love! One last but minor issue would be another gas plug with 3 perhaps 4 settings instead of 2.
Ive got about 500 rounds thru my apc308 pro. No failures to feed or eject, but after 300 rounds and no cleaning i had a couple light primer strikes. I'm saying light primer strike but it clearly did strike the primer, so maybe bad ammo. Upgrading the flash hider to some kind of compensator is recommended. Will confirm everything is tight as fuck and stiff out of the box but fit up seems ultra high quality.
Love your battle rifle vids. Idk how but if you can get ahold of the sig spear 6.8. Keep up the work, love your vids, and have a merry Christmas and happy new year
I know wtf that's heavy. The hk mr308 Euro and Canadian version is like 8.5 lbs with a decently heavy barrel too. More reliable foresure as well and probably built even better.
@Big_Dout_Actual I didn’t know that the Nemo Omen could defy the law of physics. Launching heavier projectiles at higher velocities = less recoil. Makes sense!
@@rayansandid6609 it has their recoil reducing bolt. It has a sping loaded plunger on the back of the carrier that provides opposing force to the buffer and really makes it super soft shooting. They sell the recoil reducing kit for 308 gas guns on their website.
In this video: Man buys a long, heavy DMR and is disappointed that it doesn't run and gun like a dedicated carbine. This is a gun meant for a scope and a bipod, not a Garand Thumb-esque shooting montage. As for the SCAR comparison, this rifle is a SCAR20 competitor not a SCAR17 competitor. I'm really not sure why you picked up the DMR model when that's clearly not the style of gun you were going for nor comparing it against.
@@110sassactual Thanks for your opinion. I have an RFB and I really like it when it runs but good I seem to have issues with adjusting the gas. Looking for something more reliable.
I honestly wonder how difficult it would be to put a 22” barrel in 6.5CM on it to make it more of a SASS for long range? I would want to try it after gunsmith training for shis and gigs
I have the apc9 and its downside it the trigger and no adjustable gas block. With my suppressor it wont run standard velocity. Needs 9mm subs to run. Its so pretty though and the recoil feels nice
I have a apc9 that I run with multiple cans and cans my friends let me try. Haven't had the same issues your having. I would recommend calling B&t and talking to one of there techs about the can your using.
@@110sassactual Harry Preston and others were talking about it in a FB B&t group 2yrs ago. The thread claimed it was just cracked in the surface hardening… not too reassuring to me but I’m no metallurgy expert. Haven’t heard anything since.
@@110sassactual you rock dude! Thanks for putting in the time, energy, and money into these reviews. One of the few channels on YT I trust. My favorite channel for reviews by far. Thanks again Cody
I shooted both (13" and 19" barrel), here in Switzerland, they cost the half of a Scar. The trigger is pretty heavy but crisper than 90% of Ar's trigger, not good, but not so bad. Controls are not good, specially the magazine catch. So far, on both rifle on 1000 round fired, I had only one jam (the bolt sticked into the barel, when it was new), after a correct lub, not a jam. The recoil is significant, but more better with the B&T heavy stocks, the basic skeleton stock is just a joke and such a heavy rifle. And the precision is better than me, so I can't really comment... The short version with the folding stock make more sens than the long barrel. And last, but not least, opositely to numerous AR10, the case are ejected forward, and not backward (you dont want a burning 308 case in your glasses, or worth). Over a Scar the finish is really better, and the support of B&T very good, but the Scar 17 16" barrel is lighter than the 13" barrel APC308. And yes, the LMT sharpshooter is just the best.
@@110sassactual why would you blame our whole country then? And also I have never heard or even read about that happening to any b&t gun. I cannot even find anything if i dig deep.
Wow. The gen 1 guns look horrible. Gen 2 with the non recip ch and full mlok handguard is a night and day improvement from this - unfortunately there’s so few of them in existence I don’t think anyones really written a review
@@Detroittruckdoctor55 I’d personally pass on the scar. I’m not a tremendous fan of the platform. Peep LMT defender. Great rifle and about a grand cheaper than the scar
ROFL! You look like a bobble head when shooting that thing fast! OMG. I have a couple SCAR 17s and I know they aren't that bad, in fact I love the SCAR. I think B&T needs to go back to the drawing board, lighten up the bolt, and control the gas better. What a piece of junk and embarrassing for B&T
i dont care its just another-is... is that an L1A1-style folding charging handle?!?!?!?!?!??!?!??! MY GOD I NEED ONE just kidding i don't buy guns this expensive unless they do some shit that just isn't done elsewhere or i care for some historical reason
The APCs here in Canada are notorious for having reliability problems and jamming. Especially the 308 and 556 versions. The apc9 appears to be ultra reliable. But that's kinda a joke for such an expenwive rifle. An HK mr308 absolutely would never have these bs reliability issues. Neither did the hk g3. Swiss should stick to rangefinders cause their current guns ain't cutting it.
