Not good enough for Mordin, he was onboard with the stomping part but when G'Kar couldn't figure out what to do after the Centauri were gone he knew the Narn weren't what the Shadows were looking for, the Narn were too small time, with limited ambition beyond getting even with the Centauri. It's clever stuff like this you only realize after your first watch.
Londo wanted the Centauri to prosper and conquer and take back their place in the galaxy after a period of decline. That fits the core philosophy of the Shadows: increase war and chaos, for the victor will emerge stronger and more advanced than before.
Yeah it was only recently it clicked just how much this is subtly recontextualised by the understanding of what the Shadows want. You spend 3 seasons assuming that G'kars answer wasn't good enough for Morden because he didn't want to do as much evil crap as Morden would have wanted, but its only later you realise that the Shadows want to HELP the races they pick. G'Kar wasn't rejected because he was a better person than Londo, which fits because at this point in the story...he wasn't.
The Shadows were very particular in his instruction, what he was to do, but a little creativity would've made it possible to run the Narns and the Centauri to more-easily tip the scales for the Centauri. They could do it. Morden was obviously told not to push, but if he had...he could've been a bit more devious.
hm, I think this moment showed more that there actually WASN'T more to his life than revenge at this point, and he was kind of baffled to consider what he'd do once that revenge was finally achieved
Such a nice man, Morden, always asking people what they want and doing what he can to give it to them. Even G'Kar got a large part of what he said he wanted here. In retrospect you can see that even here he has begun to doubt that it's really what he wants, though.
Yes, and one of the shows many little reminders that some things come at too high a price. Its also a part of G'Kars journey, starting with a deep hate and evolving into compassion, wisdom and reconciliation, his growth is one of the important plotlines of B5.
@@pflaffik Indeed. He came to realize he was becoming just as nasty as the Centauri were to his people. "Those who fight monsters..." as Nietzsche warned.
I tend to think that his and his people's desire for peace after venging themselves on the Centauri was incompatible with the Shadow's desire for eternal conflict and turmoil. Peace and contentment is not the way of the Shadows.
One of my favorite G’kar scenes, and one of the most important for his character. Remember that at this point in Season 1 he’s still principally been a villainous character. But…no one here is exactly who he appears.
For me, the part where I realized G'Kar was going to be special was after he had Catherine Sakai rescued. That whole speech about the Walkers was gold.
I just realized that JMS was kicking BS&P in the XXXX here; in pretty much every piece of media I can think of, seeking revenge is depicted as worse than actually hurting people in the first place. The bullies go on and on and on; consider Trek - the Klingons, the Romulans, the Cardassians, the Dominion - they get milk and cookies after the Federation beats them, and everyone who refused to accept their empires is annihilated. Here? The ones who couldn't forget that they were WRONGED actually get their vengeance - it's empty but they get it - but they're not PUNISHED for being victimized.
Maybe also foreshadowing perhaps that G'kar contained within him the capacity to be redeemed; his concern here is for the life of his people, and by extension all people. Stripping away his bigotry toward the Centauri (this Narn egotism and desire for vengeance against all Centauri, even the innocent, had plunged both species back into an escalating conflict), when pressed, he only really wanted security for his people, even at his most arrogant and vitriolic.
On the other hand, Londo doesn't just want peace. He wants glory and power. Those _seem_ more harmless than the thirst for bloody revenge at first glance, but they actually aren't. Revenge, as bad as it is, only perpetuates already existing cycles of violence and injustice. But the hunger for glory and power creates new cycles. There are few things more dangerous than the desire to "become great again".
What Londo and G'Kar BOTH said convinced the Shadows that the Centauri and the Narn were the ideal two to pit against each other in their quest to create chaos in that part of space.
@@tarvoc746 *EXACTLY!!!* Babylon 5 is the *ONLY* work I have *EVER* seen that states, "Oppression Is Worse Than Vengeance" - it's the only one I've ever seen where *ANYTHING* is worse than vengeance. Everywhere else, the narrative lionizes dictators and serial killers, while demonizing those who suffer at their hands because they can't "let go" of being... FOOD.
Mr. Morden, such an interesting character and so well played in the show. Every time he showed up you just stopped everything and could not take your eyes from him.
The Narn's goal were too short term for the Shadows, they wanted the Centauri to pay and nothing more, this did not fit the Shadows plan in creating chaos and war in the Galaxy
@@Lightingwarrior What the shadows wanted was to foster worthy heirs to their own greatness. People with goals wants drive and resolve and the spirit to do whatever it takes to get ahead. To advance technology and development through expansion and a drive for greatness and glory. While the Volon's values spiritual, cultural and personal growth over tangiable greed and the chase for external glory. This is also what Kosh tries to show Sheridan as he "teaches him" that there there are those small joys and beauty of the moment and the exploration of the self that matters. The Shadows wants more people to be like them, thinking they did it right. This is the way! While the Volon's represents a different path and way of life. Their "This is the way." In the end they want to prove to their ancient enemy that their way s the best and the right way. That the ones that follow their path are the most sucessful, and prosperous and thus validating the beliefs of either of those two ancient dwinding and dying superpowers. They are both depopulating dying people who hangs on to their ancient hatred towards each other and just hangs on to prove the other wrong. That's whats in their two big questions to the "Children of the galaxy." "What do you want." And "Who ar you?". Representing their cultural doctrines and beliefs. The Shadows are like the Alphas that pushes along and becomes conquerors or footballstars, while the Volons religious leaders , artists, rockstars or software bilionares and other more introspective non-agressive success stories.
@@peterzimmerman1114 The Shadows didn't want heirs as they already had several other races willing following them who believed in their ideals. Hell they were willing to destroy the other races when they refused to do what they wanted. What the Shadows wanted was a strong race with a thirst for conflict, conquest and greed, that they could use and manipulate to spread conflict within the galaxy, and achieve their overall goals.
@@Lightingwarrior Their only real goal was to show their belifs and their way was superior to that of the Vorlons. The Drakh while favored as servants had already lost their war on the galactic stage when they were thought destroyed long ago. They wanted to get their path edknowledged as the right one. Choose one or the other. The Vorlons wanted the same thing they wanted the younger races to choose their ideals. In the end they stood together and demanded a choice, they wanted a an answer, who is right? Who do they choose. When both were rejected they both wanted to force a conclusion til they realied the younger races didn't want to play their game any more and that they wouldn't get what they wanted, they would have to wipe them all out and still wouldn't get the one thing they wanted. For them it wasn't about territory, wealth or power but being right. They were like two people at a nursinghome for elderly squablign about whose grandchildren were the most sucessful. The young people realied what was going on and refused to play their game any more. Imagine if WW1 had been resolved this way, people just going home to their family and given the finger to their leaders when they start ranting and spewing their poisonous words. They kind of did this when they celebrated X--mas together... But then they gave in to the politicians.
"What I want is for you to go away and leave me in peace." That was the better answer, and ironically, it was very similar to Londo's initial answer - "To be left alone." But then they had to shoot their mouths off in front of the damn Monkey's Paw...
That was one of the moments that G'Kar realized the futility of seeking revenge. He realized that vengeance was not the way for him. He also learned this when he was psychically attacking Lando as well because Vosh intervened.
it foreshadowed the rest of his character arc because, for a moment at least, we see the kind of profound self-actualization he would see after that moment with Kosh The writing is so unbelievably good in babylon 5
@@Hisu0 You can see the momentary flash of realisation before he (temporarily) pushes it away again. Andreas Katsulas was such a good actor, especially when you consider all the makeup he had to wear for the role.
Well knowing Vorlons as well as Shadows failure to properly endorse their responsabiliies toward younger races, it is a little bit ironical to hear a Vorlon make some kind of moral judgment on civilizations that they see as less civilized. Even if Narns and Centauri have responsabilities in the current situation, Vorlons and Shadows interfere a lot (directly or indirectly) on their "free will" and their ability to get ride off their prejudice and evolves morally as civilizations. And Kosh is one (the only one ?) of the Vorlon that can more or less feel empathy towards the young races ....
@@philippes.9571 Sad isn't it? I think, if a being has gained eternal life or able to prolong life indefinitely, all matter of emotions would become transient and meaningless. As Lorein said: "We've lived too long, seen too much. To live on as we have is to leave behind joy and love and companionship because we know it to be transitory, of the moment. We know it will turn to ash." (See S4E6) As strongly implies in show, the Vorlon has achieved immortality (See S1E9). For this reason, it is unsurprising for the Vorlon to become more indifferent to the plight of the younger races and only focus on what they perceived to have the "potential" to grow. The Vorlon, in hubris, believing they were gods and their way was the "right and only" way for the all younger races to follow. They interfered the evolution and development of the younger races and attempted to force their will to them. The Shadow did the same, and they were ideologically opposite to Vorlon. The ideologically and philosophical conflict between them evetually started the Shadow Wars in the galaxy. Instead nurturing the younger races, The Vorlon and The Shadow competed with each other and used the younger races as pawns for their proxy wars. In the final stage of Shadow Wars, we reached the climax of the conflict where Vorlon and Shadow were in open battle. You either die a hero or live long enough to become a villain. This is so true to both Vorlon and Shadow...
i always wondered if he see his race and the shadows in Centauri and the Narn, two race trapped in a endless cycle of war neither can escape without both side mutual destruction and that why he helped Gkar even though he considered them a dying people
@@philippes.9571 The Vorlons vaued introspection, spiritual experiences, art, culture, exploration of the mind and the self. To them the Centauri and Narn had become too warlike and spiteful and shallow. The Centauri being more what the Shadows wanted, the Narns stuck in their pain and hatred and militaristic culture fully set on hate and revenge at any cost.
Imagine how different things would have been if G'Kar had been the one recruited to work with the shadows instead of Londo. The Narn with the help of the shadows would have crushed the centauri utterly and thus G'Kar would never have the spiritual awakening and would instead just be just as arrogant as he has always been at the beginning of the series. Londo on the other hand would have an entirely different path as he watched his world fall to ruin and no one coming to help his world as they had previously been conquerors so no one would care less. The shadows would likely put multiple bases on narn and hide their ships as they did on other sites. No doubt it would make them a tempting target for the vorlons who would destroy narn leaving G'Kar with the realization that it was his own foolishness that doomed his world to destruction.
@@joannekelly5132 "Hard times make strong men. Strong men make good times. Good times make weak men, and weak mean create hard times," -Attributed to Alexander Fraiser Tytler.
What Londo and G'Kar BOTH said convinced the Shadows that the Centauri and the Narn were the ideal two to pit against each other in their quest to create chaos in that part of space.
G'Kar got what he wanted, just not necessarily in the way he imagined it. Centauri Prime was bombarded by the Alliance fleet and by the time, the Drakh finished, Centauri Prime stood in ruins. To borrow the trite warning, be careful what you wish for because you may get it.
And yet at the end, his wish is for peace and safety for his people. Once the Centauri are dealt with all he wants is peace. He may be standing on the edge of the abyss, but when he sees the implication for what it is, he turns his back. And this is before the Vorlons really went to work on him. He looked into the face of the Devil and kept his soul, although it was a near thing. G'Kar was always a good man. His anger just made him forget sometimes.
This is one time when blind hatred and thirst for revenge might have been someone's salvation. The Shadows, for all their evil, weren't about mindless destruction for its own sake. For them, violence and conflict formed a crucible to burn away the weak and advance the strong. Violence and conflict were a means to an end, not an end in their own sake. All G'Kar wanted (at the time) was blind, rage-filled, nihilistic destruction of his enemies, and that by itself was not useful to the Shadows or in line with their philosophy. What Londo Mollari wanted was a restoration of his people to power, and he gave little to no thought to the means. THAT was useful to the Shadows, and in line with their philosophy. G'Kar, while his motives at the time were baser, seriously dodged a bullet here, though he didn't know it at the time. If he'd been more of a blind idealist like Londo Mollari was, and less of a rage-filled monster, might have been exploited by the Shadows. As it was, by proving to be less usefull to the Shadows, and crucially also by eventually rising above an animalistic thirst for revenge, he kept his people from becoming the Shadows' pawns, the way the more idealistic Mollari fell into their power.
Eventually we find out that both the Shadows and the Vorlons really need to be kicked out of the Galaxy, and for the same reason. Each has become totally dedicated to an ideal of how they believe things should be done. Both are willing to cause unlimited destruction and suffering in the pursuit of their ideal. Both have a lot of philosophical sophistication, but at root are fanatical believers in conflicting religions.
Shadows are not evil (and Vorlons are not good) Edit : in terms of RPG, i would say that they are Chaotic neutral and Lawful neutral respectively and as a whole amoral (not immoral)
@@philippes.9571 I dispute that, and I say they _are_ evil. You can tell by their actions: they promote violence and warfare, their actions are ruthless in the extreme, and they cultivate and enable allies who perform objectively evil acts, such as the Drakh, who routinely enslave others by means of keepers, and who attempted the annihilation of all life on Earth. Terms like chaotic neutral and lawful neutral were classifications dreamed up for a role playing game, where characters have to fit into neat categories for the sake of game play. Real life isn't so neat and tidy. No, the shadows don't commit evil acts just to be evil. _No one_ does that. They do horrible things in pursuit of objectives that seem good or even noble to them, and justify the evil they do as necessary to those ends. _Nobody_ ever views _himself_ as evil, and most especially not ideologues. The vorlons weren't objectively good either, but on balance, I would say they did less evil than the Shadows. The system they promoted promoted order and stability, as opposed to violence and chaos, and therefore inevitably they will cause less death and devastation. I would lable that objectively better and more moral.
@@Hibernicus1968 I see your point but when you say "Terms like chaotic neutral and lawful neutral were classifications dreamed up for a role playing game, where characters have to fit into neat categories for the sake of game play", and at the same time that "Shadows are evil", you put also the Shadows in a neat category, projecting on them human moral classification. The Vorlosn and Shadows objective (as well as Old Ones before them) was to promote sentient life in the galaxy allowing "primitive civilisation" (on their point of view) to reach a given level of evolution that ensure their very long time survival. I agree that from our point of view, we can classify them as "evil" given the consequences on lesser civilisation day to day life. But on the "Cosmic" point of view, their philosophy make sense (but i dont say i agree with them !) as they think that conflict (that is not the same as war), that is to say a galaxy that is always pushed by some kind of perturbation, is better to promote long term civilization that complete (artificial in the case of Vorlons imho) peace and order that leads to stagnation.
Morden sought a being who had the desire to take a seed and grow it in the ashes and blood of the universe. In G'Kar he saw a being who simply wanted nothing more than to burn it all to the ground, watch the flames engulf everything his eyes could witness, and then walk away when it smoldered and died. A seed can only grow out of tragedy when there is someone left to cultivate it and help it grow... and G'Kar was no gardener.
G'kar was already too wise and self-aware at this point too give Morden the same answer that Mollari gave him ... Even if he didnt realize it, and it was out of ignorance of the path he had already atarted on. For Mollari, crushing the enemies if the Centauri Republic was the logical next step. Even if it was always destined to see everyone else as its enemies. For G'Kar, the idea of "after" had never included the continuation of the genocide he had hoped to inflict on the Centauri, to the rest of the galaxy. It was just vengeance, which would be satisfied with Centauri blood. He never allowed himself to consider anyone who stood aside as the Centauri decimated his planet and his people, as needing to feel Narn power.... subconsciously he knew where that would go. In his haste to be done with Morden, he gave exactly the right answer ... and save his people before anyone even knew they were in danger. He saved their souls...
That they sent Mr.Morden at all means that they weren't sure about the younger races, having been away for so long. Morden even approached the MInbari first, to see if there had been any change there that would have allowed them to turn that race. Probably always knew it was a longshot. But the Narn must have been a terrible disappointment. A race thirsting for vengeance, eager to prove itself, with vigor and a bristling military-industrial complex, from afar they must have seemed exactly what the Shadows wanted. Only for it to turn out, under questioning, that the Narn were simply stuck, unable to move on from their fixation with their former oppressors, consumed solely with the need for vengeance against them. Were that need to be sated, the Narn would settle down and likely turn inwards. Completely unsuited to the needs of the Shadows. But proof that the Narn were indeed capable of being saved.
Remember that the Narn homeworld got occupied in the last Shadow war. They fought the Shadows with everything they had. It's where they lost their potential for telepathy. They suffered so many casualties among their "mindwalkers" that the ability was bred out of them. The memory of that struggle and its leader, G'Quan, is at the core of their beliefs. They may be far fallen from what they once were but the Narn were always on the side of Light in their own battered, wounded, bitter way.
Remember that Molari didn't limit his ambitions to just crushing The Narn, he wanted to rebuild the empire, thought of himself like Justinian rebuilding The Roman Empire. G'kar didn't have such grand ambitions. So, of course Morden, who was examining who was best to have his Shadow friends side with decided to pass on giving G'kar access to The Shadow's destructive powers. The Shadows were kind of analogous to getting your wish from a genie in a lamp (d'jinn). But, making such wishes is like making a deal with the devil (Morden being the devil's advocate), and it still destroys you, and everyone close to you in the end.
Funny in the end G’Kar did get what he wanted and Centauri Prime was decimated. Although not exactly what he wanted but in the end even he regretted his people bombarding the planet.
@@nitehawk86 Even then he might not have. It's quite possible that Morden is the "one who is already dead" who Londo must not kill. Killing him caused the Drakh to pick Centauri Prime as their target for revenge.
@@Karajorma Not quite. I'm not sure the Drakh cared much for Morden specifically. What they cared about was the destruction of the Shadow vessels on island of Celini (did I spell that correctly?) -- and London had little choice there, as the Vorlons were en route to destroy his world because of those vessels. Ironically, it's possible that his world would have been spared anyway (the Vorlons left Centauri Prime because their forces near Coriana VI called for reinforcements); but of course, London had no way of knowing that.
I honestly like that bit of realization that after the Centauri were gone, the Narn wouldn't have any clue what to do. They'd let their hatred define them and without that, they were nothing.
That or, without the object of their fixation on front of them, they miight just decide to live in relative peace, which is of course not what Morden's associates want. The Centauri on the other hand were imperialists and once they got the taste of blood in their mouth, would not have stopped until stopped by force.
I find it funny that G’Kar got both things he wanted. Centauri Prime’s sky was blackened, their cities fell, and his homeworld was preserved to some degree. And Mr. Morden also left him in peace, in the end.
@@valerierodger7700 And ironically, relinquishing one's desire for retribution is often the best way to achieve justice; it breaks the cycle of vengeance. It just took some time for him to come to that realization.
Great turning point for G'Kar. He realized just in time that the only thing that really mattered was the safety and welfare of his people. He had no idea that he pulled his soul out of the fire, at that moment.
It's interesting that Morden never asks Sinclair or any humans what they want. Presumably, that's because they've already found a human who gave them a satisfactory answer: Vice-President Morgan Clark.
G'Kar came close there but he balked at the idea of dominance beyond revenge whereas Londo wanted the full on restoration of the Centauri empire ( although I wonder if the historic Centauri empire really was as powerful as Londo was brought up to believe ).
Or they didn't desire conflict for its own sake. When they had venged themselves upon the Centauri, they would have desired peaceful existence and nothing more.
This wasn’t enough of an answer for the Shadows. The Narn were short sighted and limited. They wanted revenge but other than that we’re happy with the status quo. They wouldn’t have bothered attacking other races. The Centuri by comparison had a vision of glory and power. They wanted to overthrow the hierarchy of power in the galaxy and reshape the universe to their will. They wanted change. The Shadows were all into that.
What Londo and G'Kar BOTH said convinced the Shadows that the Centauri and the Narn were the ideal two to pit against each other in their quest to create chaos in that part of space.
It's interesting how everybody who answers Morden ultimately got what they wanted even if it wasn't the Shadows plan (only Londo's second answer was actually deliberately granted by the Shadows). Vir got to see Morden's head on a pile and wave at it, G'Kar got to see the Centauri utterly destroyed although by that point he didn't want it anymore, and Londo even got his first wish granted: to be alone.
@@lylelaney8270 I think it is the Vorlons who are the "Asian Parents" of the B5 galaxy. The Vorlons are the parents who tell you to "know your place, mind your elders, and do what you are told". Sound familiar?
I note that after G'Kar's stream of bile and hate against the Centari G'Kar doesn't care too much about the future so long has his people are safe. That is key for Lando in his spiel had no such limits. What this means from Moden's point of view is that G'Kar will always be weighing any future decision he makes in terms of how it may negatrively affect his people. This makes him a poor ally of the Shadows, given that G'Kar will always be putting his people's safety first and not his desires.
Morden was looking for someone influential among the younger races, whose purposes closely aligned with the Shadows. Londo came the closest to giving Morden the answer he was looking for, so that was why he was chosen to get his wishes fulfilled, and not the ambassadors of the other races.
I thought of this scene as Londo was watching Narn being bombed with mass drivers. G'Kar did change, but people should remember that the man he was earlier never wanted peace with the Centauri, he wanted revenge. It's understandable, but when you proclaim you want to commit genocide on another race, you can't complain if that race wants the same for you.
Everyone who Morden asks gets what they say they want: Delenn for him to go away and never darken her doorway again; G'Kar to see the Centauri destroyed and to have revenge, but he had turned away from that before the end; Mollari to see the Centauri Empire (and himself) reach great heights (then it was destroyed by Shadow servitors taking revenge); Vir to wave at Morden's head on a pike; which of the humans did Morden ask? Or had the Vorlons asked their question first and queered the pitch?
@@BorgAssimilator Certainly Clark. They did infiltrate Psi Corps, but that was primarily a defensive move considering their fear of telepaths. Ultimately, Bester suspects the teep virus nearly deployed by Willian Edgars was actually engineered by the Shadows to remove the telepath threat.
The shadows should have really used the narns. Those guy's knew how to hate, and want revenge at the same time (duly so) . Could have been a match made in heaven.. )
@@Wailwulf One could argue that the Shadow's desire for eternal conflict and turmoil is just mindless destruction. The whole "creative destruction" part is just their rationalization (ie making excuses). The long-term desire of the Narn was not wanton violence but peaceful existence.
RU-vid suggested a clip where G'Kar explained that the first ones are so advanced that they do not notice or care for our existence. But what if one does and so happens to be the devil himself?
I suspect that they were actually allies, though neither side realized it. Keep in mind that the Shadows had agents inside the Psi-Corp, controlling both it and Clarke.
Well Morde was looking somthing else and diffrent answear but "what G'kar want" happened bcs we see it in Londo's vision about blackened sky around Centauri Prime. As usual u should be awear what u want bcs it could happen and not how u can predict it.
Ah so Morden was there to get an answer on the question "What do you want". The shadows what they wanted to hear was galaxy wide conquest and it would be those races that the shadows would assist. An answer that meant further development of a race beyond the lifetime of one political leader.
Ah, I got it. The Shadows would help those who had the cruelest desires. G'Kar didn't. Londo was close, but Vir was the winner. The Shadows gave Vir what he wanted.
G'kar was no interest to Mr. Morden and his associates because what G'kar wanted had a limit. Once the Centari were gone, G'kar would no longer want anything. Londo wanted the return of the glory of the Centari enpire and to keep an empire glorious it would need to keep expanding. To spread war to its neighbors. Something Mr. Morden and his associates are looking for.
He’s definitely filling in for Lucifer but he’s just a man representing some very powerful interests. He’s looking for candidates to achieve his goals. For all of G’Kar’s hatred and desire for vengeance, his ambitions are too small and his scope too limited for Morden’s purposes. He needs more and he finds it with someone else.
@@scotttild There’s definitely more direct commentary for our current political situation (which is very very bad) when it comes to the authoritarian practices of President Clark and his propagandist conspirators in ISN news and the Night Watch.
I've always wondered how things would have been if the Shadows sided with the Narn. Maybe if G'Kar was a bit more bloodthirsty, Morden would have sided with them in the war. On the outside, it would have been much easier to justify conflict. The oppressed turn around to fight and kill their oppressor. Maybe the Centauri Emperor who clearly didn't want war with the Narn would have had a change of heart and gone full Khorne on them. Or would he have tried to stay passive until he was assassinated?
I’m sorry. You’ve failed the admission examination for the League of Evildoers in the Known Galaxy. We wish you the best of luck in your search for other outlets for your talents.
In Babylon 5 The Vorlons Asked Who Are You? The Shadows Asked What Do You Want? In Space Above and Beyond McQueen Asked What is the Point? 3 great Questions if you can Honestly answer all three I think you are Wise.
Am I the only one here who thinks that Ed Wasser looks like Anthony Perkins from Psycho? Like why didn’t they hire him for the 1998 remake instead of Vince Vaughn?
Ironic that the first time G'kar had to actually stop and consider life beyond revenge was when an agent of darkness asked him about it. Also, "I want justice", and goes on to describe his vision of revenge. He'd almost be right at home with today's "justice warriors".
Indeed. He eventually came to realize that actual justice and breaking the cycle of vengeance requires one to relinquish their demand for retribution. Something either completely lost on the grievance culture, or known to them, but they are seduced by the power and self-aggrandizement that comes from perpetuating that cycle.
