Hey boss, just wanted to say thank you for everything. I recently decided to get into backpacking with my nephews and your videos have been very helpful.
Reference the Grayl 40 second press time (?) someone experienced with tap water: If it was the older model lid you had to open a 1/4 twist to release the air pressure, otherwise it was almost impossible to press (first time I misread the instructions and I almost exploded the bottle😂😮). When properly opened a 1/4 turn, or using the newer easier to use lids,, press times are in the 5 to 10 second range with fresh water🎉❤
Good to know! In their pictures, they were actually trying to push the cup down without the lid on at all. This can hurt your hands and might lead to less pressure and longer times, as well.
That section about the PFAS has been brought into sharp relief by recent findings, namely that all rainwater (yes, globally!) officially exceeds what is now considered "safe" with further study. Cannot link a source directly, but the wiki article on PFAS now mentions it and links to the original science, rather than all the news outlets taking the idea of unpotable rainwater and running with it as they do.
I just wanted to thank you for making this channel. It’s absolutely refreshing to see skepticism applied to topics often treated superficially and anecdotally. Beyond providing excellent information and framework for effective discourse on hiking, you promote the power of understanding basic statistics, the scientific method and standards set by expert authorities. I’m often saddened by the degree to which the internet is permeated by fallacious and conspiratorial thinking. Your channel is entertaining, educational and novel. Above all though, it as a bulwark of citizen science in a sea of woo.
Fabulous! After the next (?final) installment, I belief those who complete the entire water purification series may be eligible for a diploma. I have certainly had entire courses of study with less content. Bravo!
Recently found your channel, and was concerned that all your videos were old, then found the one from 4 months ago and it gave me hope that you were continuing to make videos. I'm super happy to see new content! I understand the research takes a long time, but that's what makes them so enjoyable. I really hope you continue to find making these fun.
Fantastic work, I can't sing high enough praises for your work! This series makes me reconsider water born threats what my needs are for water filtration/purification in the backpacking, disaster preparedness, and everyday context. Great information and presentation. Keep up the hard work!
I love your videos, you have an awesome amount of research in them! Your approach is humble and very scientific! The real merit for me is that you are setting up a coordinate system in which one can understand the differences of the options and weigh them against personal preferences. With all the knowledge you acquired, I would be super excited if you would consider creating 5-min condensed versions of these! A five-hour series is a little much for someone who just wants to know what filter/tablet to buy... e.g. watching the first 3 and last 10 minutes of your filtration video gave me all the knowledge I needed! If you could create 5min condensed versions of all your videos, also the nutrition ones, that would be a gold source!! Also as a reference to go back and refresh the memory after having watched the in-depth version a short one would be awesome. Anyways, thank you for the good work you are putting out here, such a gift to all hikers! Thanks @GearSkeptic!
Somehow with the variable uses of these filters, the different types of water chemistries and levels and types of pathogens, I think the 5 minute summaries would steer you wrongly. Just my impression from having sat through all of these his critical analysis of why some fail and where they fail are key.
Another master class. I’ve heard some off-the-top-of-the-head advice coming from the staff at my local outdoor store. Now I can suggest your video, or just suggest (with kindness) more factual info.
Great vids man!! Any thoughts on the least plastic/ most chemical free drinking method. Soft bottles vs hard bottles… vs silicon… vs bioplastic, etc. Hydrapak offers mulitple types, some ‘free of x y z…’ and some not. [Also Bübi bottle, Bottle-up (UK), Nalgene, Ortlieb, vs Titanium…] I think drinking plastic is an ignored issue. [Some eg of materials used TPU, PP, HDPE, Silicone, Renew copolyester, PU coated Nylon, and bioplastic from sugarcane.] Some risks are BPA, BPS, BPF, PVC and more… endocrine disrupters that mess with hormones, etc. At the very least, it might help us find that epic nature fresh taste without that lingering chemical taste in water bladders, soft bottles and such! …anyways isn’t it funny we’re concerned about bacteria and viruses but not chemicals leaked from the bottle itself?
I am actually doing some research on the drinking safety of plastic bottles for the next part in the series. It includes UV pens, but also solar disinfection. That involves baking your water in the sun, and since heat might increase the possible leeching of chemicals into the water, it is something I am trying to track down. Hopefully, Part 6 will answer your question!
@@GearSkeptic Oh wow, nice one! Really looking forward to that. I’ve got so many unanswered questions. Cheers dude, your channel is amazing with the detail you go into! ;-)
One of my hiking partners was quizing me about filtering water from a lake with boats and lawns. Now I have some information for him. Once again thanks for the detailed videos.
One of the things I will be making/packing for my SHTF bag, is a low energy desalinization system. I have one of those Pump N Seal vacuum pulling systems that pulls about 28" of Hg (hand pumped). That brings the boiling point of water down to around to 95* F or so. Basically I'll have two stainless steel bottles, one painted ultra black, the other painted ultra white, and both connected by either SS hose or specially coated copper hose. A clear plastic bag (or very light/thin, foldable acrylic container) that is UV resistant will be packed with this. Concept is, either put the white colored bottle into cool to cold ground or some water in the shade. Place dirty water in the black colored bottle. Seal everything up, pull the medium vacuum on it. Place the ultra black colored bottle either in the sun with the plastic bag or acrylic container around it, or over a very small fire source. The vacuum placed on the system, should allow you to evaporate the water much faster and with much less heating.
@GearSketpic, first off thank you for placing the time and effort into making these videos. The videos are immensely educational and informative. Have you looked into ZeroWater's 5-stage ion exchange filtration? I understand that most of your videos are related to hiking, but there are mentions of larger scale filtration needs with mobility still in mind; i.e. disaster scenarios, not just hiking. If you have looked at ZeroWater's 5-stage, would you be able to either share your findings to this as well? I have requested reports and results to confirm their website's performance results but am waiting to hear back. Hopefully I will hear back from them, but I am also skeptical!
I know you're doing a lot of this research for your own brain, but thank you, thank you, thank you, for sharing it with the rest of our brains. I know the series isn't complete but I'll most likely rely on my MSR Guardian pump for combination of speed, usability and effectiveness at a cost of weight. I also have Katadyn micropur as a backup. I guess if the conditions are really bad (disaster?), I can always add in a Katadyn charcoal and Steripen or just distill it (like you would in a desert).
Thank you! This is awesome content and it's obvious that it took quite some time to investigate and prepare. It would be great if you could share links to research sources you have found.
Thank you for another great informative video. As is my norm I’ll watch it another 2-3 times to absorb everything. I really appreciate all the research and critical thinking you put into your videos. I now carry a WAPI in my kit in case my filter freezes.
Love your videos I sent some sections to family to take a look at for your hiking food and hydration videos. I have learned a ton and it is so refreshing to find a channel that actually digs into the science and research to support or disprove claims and give a better foundation for people to decide what works for their needs. That being said I think an interesting data point if you can find it would be to see how many cases of waterborne illnesses happen along the big through hike trails each year, this would be another data point to see if purification vs filtration is really that necessary and could give some light on just how likely you are to actually get sick from normal water sources (cow poop puddles should be a filter and boil). If records are kept with some accuracy then we can see if your napkin math model is on point or could use some adjustments going forward. I wonder why RU-vid hasn't pushed you further up on the recommendations but keep making these videos they are fantastic.
Thanks very much! There are some published papers on the topic of the general safety of wilderness waters. Some researchers take the position that hygiene is more important than water treatment, though they will admit there is still a risk from water. They complain about bad data, though. Rarely is backcountry gastroenteritis diagnosed from an actual test of the organism. This leads to assumptions, for example, that it was giardia. And, even if it was, did you get it from the water or a fellow camper with dirty hands? Another unstudied issue is proper use of your given treatment method. Some people splash unfiltered water all over their hands and bottle, then drink from the container. Did the filter fail, or was it bad practice? I agree that it would be interesting to know more. Unfortunately, most of what I can find are just the water sample tests.
Tip for freezing water: To keep your filled water bottle from freezing up such that you can't drink out of it, store it upside down. That way ice forms on the bottom of the bottle, instead of the top. Learned that from four years of being stationed in Alaska doing Arctic warfare stuff. -40 week-long field exercises are brutal, yo
Awesome. More Back Packing signs to my benefit. Do you have any information about the life straw water filter? If not, can you please do a little research and share information about it? When it comes to Back Packing in areas with no worries about forming an industrial chemistry like up in the mountains, what would be your choice of preference about the water filter? I meant to say farming. Thank you so much for sharing this video. I treasure your videos. God bless you.
The Lifestraw was one of the filters discussed in the Part 3 video on Microfiltration. It has very good removal numbers, and they now have other filter formats, as well. I personally have always carried a Sawyer Mini and some chlorine dioxide tablets for backup (like if viruses are suspected). After this video, I added the Platypus carbon element to my water kit. This summer I will be testing it out to see if it is worth the trouble of an extra step.
Thanks for the series! Impressive studies. There is not much talk about the flow and pressure with the filters. Usually you shouldn't blow on any filter, cause it will clog it. To counter this issue I have made my own activated carbon filter to prefilter the biggest particles from my Sawyer squeeze, and I use them only like syphoning hose. This way I can keep eye on the flow rate and change the activated carbon when I need to. Should last a lifetime for personal use. I also have the uv for extra measure, but I usually boil it mainly for coffee anyway.
Haha, I feel this happening in my future. Thinking of something like: 1. Dedicated dirty water bag/bottle -> 2. Cheap rough mechanical filter to cut down on back-flushing and enable very dirty water to be used if necessary -> 3. Sawyer squeeze -> 4. Refillable carbon filter -> 5. Clean containers. 6. Di-chlorine tabs for pretreatment in special cases/emergency. Also plan on carrying my Kelly Kettle Trekker, outside the bag due to bulk though. With that I could skip the slower Sawyer on the way from having to find water to a hot drink.
I feel so empowered with the critical analysis you gave in these videos! This is a complex subject that with your help has become clearer. Thank you for your inquiry, and persistence with this!
Hadn't heard of the Katadyn Bottle adapter carbon filter so I went and ordered that. When it came in, I got curious and tried cracking open my old Platypus GravityWorks carbon filter with a hammer and flathead screwdriver. A couple of light taps is all it took to pop the very bottom part off. It turns out to be a cap which still pops back on. Underneath is a polysponge type foam disk, the same type of activated carbon granules as the katadyn and then another foam disk at the inlet. A little ca glue and a piece of tape on the outside might give a little insurance from spillage. Nice to have that as an option!
Love your videos, but I'm not returning to the back country until my kids are older. Instead, I'm using your channel's information for packing lighter so I don't need a stroller for half-day trips to Disneyland with a toddler! This video was unexpectedly useful because their faucet water doesn't taste great, so I'm going to get a simple activated carbon filter for my bottles, now that I know thats an option. Thank you for caring about these subjects and working hard to share all your research!
I own a Grayl Ultrapress and a Sawyer Squeeze. I only go backpacking 1-2 times a year. Would you recommend I take both, first using the sawyer squeeze and then running the filtered water through the Grayl? Or is this overkill? I am concerned with trace amounts of industrial pollutants in my states rivers. If I had to take one, would Grayl be the best option?
I like it as a relatively inexpensive and compact option that includes decent virus protection. But, its carbon filtration seems only for aesthetic effects so it won’t cover the chemicals/heavy metals part of the Grayl.
Just finished your water treatment series. WOW! Fine job! Getting ready to do the AT next year. Between this series and the nutrition I feel like I just took a college course. How many credits did I achieve? LOL Spread sheets are very nice as well. If you start making t-shirts to recoup for your time I'm in!
Great video, but I still got one question, on MSR's website, the miniworks filter core is described as carbon-ceramic. however, there is a pore size of 0.2 microns and it is not rated for virus removal while it is rated for chemical and bad taste removal How can that be ? if its an adsorbtion purifier, it should be able to take out viruses, right ? and if it was a size exclusive filter, it would not be able to remove the chemicals. Could viruses be just to large for that type of adsorption technology, while being to small for microfiltration ?
I believe the carbon element is only rated for chlorine and taste. Most carbon filters are just that. It takes a fancier adsorption medium to handle viruses. Those are usually more like ion exchange.
Yet another great video! Out of curiosity I wondered if you've reached out to more manufacturers to try to get detailed test results for other filter for your future recommendations video. I would be curios to see if other manufactures are also understating their capabilities similar to Sawyer and Katadyne. Especially for some of those popular ultralight filters that didn't have information like the Platypus Quickdraw or the HydroBlu Versa Flow.
I have a "Sport Berkey" it does great on a range of chemicals and microbes, but no virus protection. The large Black Berkey Filters do chemicals plus viruses but are not well suited for backpacking. Another great video. Tons of info and things to digest. I am starting to think to go with Aquamira drops for virus protection and then pass that through me Sawyer Squeeze (sediment, redundant to Aquamira for bacteria and critters) for total protection, but no chemical removal using this method, darn. Great info on flowrate and the effect on filter life reduction.
Okay so, in 2024 some of these options aren’t available anymore like the Sawyer S3. I’m looking for a reliable backpacker water filter capable of making my water safe to drink. I camp/prep in an area where most of my water sources are near agriculture operations. What are my options?
The First Need and the Grayl are the only other ones I know of with actual chemical removal numbers. With other filters that may have an activated carbon element, you are basically taking it on faith.
@@GearSkeptic Awesome thank for the quick response sir! The First Need seems like the best bang-for-buck and the actual lab testing seems more trustworthy. The Grayl has a lot of unclean nuance surrounding how to use it and how long it’s actually good for as you’ve shown. Out of curiosity, a lot of my bodies of water are typically still water (ponds and small lakes), obviously the further away from any agriculture operation the better, but do you think the First Need would be sufficient in making this kind of water safe to drink where the chemical aspect is (hopefully) low? Thanks for your time!
I would trust it. It has been around longest, and was actually the only one that was tested by scientists not hired by the company itself (so I believe the results).
Great sets of well thought out videos! Many Commendations to you! The details are exactly what I needed. Very interested in your upcoming UV video. Decades ago I set up Platy to hose to MSR red filter (before that was plastic fuel filters :) to the original Sawyer filter that could be unscrewed! to a Katadyn charcoal container to another Platy. I didn't have science ... just logic back then.. Now I have "digital" :) So many thanks for the huge efforts you are sharing.!!
Really enjoying working my way through your excellent and informative videos. I'm wondering if your extensive research can answer a question which has been in my mind for over 50 years. I grew up in a rural area of the UK where intensive farming dominated the countryside. As well as herbicides and insecticides applied to crops, huge amounts of nitrogen were applied to the land as fertiliser. Obviously these would leach into the local water sources. It is the latter of these i am wondering about. What is the best method for removing nitrogen from water? It seems few filter manufacturers ever seem to mention nitrogen, yet it is applied in vast quantities to agricultural land. It would be great if you have an answer, thanks. 👍👍
Nitrogen itself is a harmless gas. Air is mostly nitrogen. You breathe more of it than oxygen. Nitrogen can be part of other compounds, though. For chemical removal, the Grayl or the First Need filters are the most-certified choices. They can’t filter everything, however. Ammonia contains nitrogen, for example. You’d need an osmosis filter or distillation for that (those are not backpacking options).
@@GearSkeptic Thanks for the reply. One of the reasons the subject worried me was many years ago I heard a tale of someone who poisoned himself by licking his golf ball to clean it after every hole he played. After years of doing this he was taken ill and had both legs amputated. The story blamed the nitrgen fertiliser used on the golf course, hence my concern at ingesting run-off water. The story may well not be true however. Thanks for your answer, can finally forget about it. 😉👍👍
If chemical protection is what you need, the Grayl is currently your only certified option. If you just want microbiological filtration, I would choose a Sawyer.
Pump filters are bulky and heavy for the amount of water they treat (the Vario is only rated for 2000 liters). A gravity filter like a Sawyer or Lifestraw will be smaller, lighter, reduce pathogens more, and last longer.
I was considering the problem that there are no reliable end-of-life indicators for activated carbon. I have a Sawyer mini that I use as an inline filter. The Sawyer will stop working once the flow is restricted. How about placing the carbon filter after the Sawyer and then change them both at the same time?
@gearskeptic6355 Thanks for your reply. The water filter series is fantastic! Are you aware of a worthwhile stand-alone inline carbon filter that I can daisy chain with my sawyer mini, a particulates filter, and a ceramic pump. I'd like to pull water from the Sacramento Delta so there are decades of farm run-off, metals and chrmicals. I do a lot of canoe camping.
I bought a Grayl in 2018(?) Canoe camping in Northern Ontario. Unpressable within 10 fills. I would strongly not recommend. Great video otherwise. This is textbook level knowledge.
I think I like it for travel and to keep in my car for emergencies. I’m just not a fan of having my filter and container integrated. It is fairly heavy and bulky. I could get a lot more filtration in a smaller package for trail purposes.
RU-vid didn’t notify me about this one! Excited to watch now :)) we’ve just finished a course on gastrointestinal illness in my Uni degree, so I’m looking forward to this one
Zero Water pitchers come with a little device to test the conductivity of your water and say to replace the filter when it reads 6 ppm. Perhaps bringing a similar device with you might give you some idea when your carbon filter is failing.
I haven't worked out the percentage but I've watched a number of you videos now, i thank you for your brilliant work you have shared and i have learnt a lot. I do worry for you about how much of your life you are spending on these video's for our benefit. We can't save time or bank it for later use, we can only choose how we spend it. Cheers
Please consider starting a Patreon. You CANNOT make such great content without having a place where people can drop off something to thank you. This is too valuable.
Great video, so happy i found your channel! Only thing that left me totally puzzled after watching is purchase conflict between Sawyer S3 and Aquamira frontier max. Sawyer is 108 grams heavier, replacement bottle is more expensive than the Aquamira Frontier MAX but S3 seems to be a better filter.
Personally, I’d go with the Frontier Max unless you are worried about industrial pollutants. For backcountry water where your concerns are mostly microbiological, virus protection might really be the only thing you need beyond a standard micro filter.
I put one of the Platypus carbon elements in my water kit (with my Sawyer), to be used only when called for. The Grayl went into a car emergency kit. If I make a dedicated virus/chemical capable kit for hiking, I will probably use the Aquamira Frontier Max red line.
Every time I think of an objection - you address. This is so comprehensive I am astounded. Awesome! The issues you raise with Grayl remains valid and my concerns. I consider the grayl cheaper than bottled water and use relatively clean water only and underestimate it's capability. It's ideal for travel more than hiking. I have a be free to pre-filter if the water is dirty or otherwise have any concerns. At present, there isn't a travel suitable full filtration with redundancy or sensor. Compromises are just a nature of decision making. Thanks again!
Can you make another video testing the uv light bottles? I’m curious how effective those are or if the portions of the bottle the light fails to touch will cause issues.
fantastic attention to detail in these videos! out of curiosity, would you happen to be an engineer? your method of presentation and level of organization reminds me of the lectures my college engineering professors would give.
I have a really dumb question that might be interesting to test lol What if you had a standard(activated charcoal and hepa filter in line or whatever it is) gas mask filter and you rigged it up to filter water with it would it perform any good at all?
i've used the grayl ultralight press and I get faster speed than that gearlabs review.. the 40 seconds per bottle is insane.. 15 seconds that grayl claims seems to be just about right for me.. sometimes even faster than that! perhaps they didn't loosen the top cap before pushing down? or maybe the water was super turbid..
Thank you! Two questions: a friend has and uses a stainless steel water distilation unit, does sd produce pure h2o? And: A few years back a "survival kit" included some large clear plastic bags And said to fasten them around the end of a leafy branch, that after several Sunny hours water produced by the leaves ( chlorophyl sunlight CO2-> H2O +O2) Would condense inside the bag producing water safe to drink. True, or myth?
Distillation is probably the highest level of purification. It will even work to produce drinkable water from salt water. The distilled water should be free of even dissolved minerals. But, it takes a lot of fuel and time to produce a useful amount. I’ve seen videos on gathering moisture from tree branches using a plastic bag, but I’ve never seen any actual studies on it. It makes sense that you could get at least some water that way. It might not be enough (under all conditions) to keep you alive, though. I’d always want another way to get water.
@@GearSkeptic I agree about the bagged tree leaves being in a 4 season area. With the steam distilation I was concerned about hydrocarbons? Partly because I'm familiar with steam distilation of essential oils, which aren't quite oils yet still lower specific gravity than water, and for that matter things like rose hydrosol/rose water. I would suppose? that activated charcoal filtering would clear most of that? Including the caveats of replacment?
Oh! With regard to the bag and leaves water source, it reminded me of tapping maple trees, the sap - when running should/could be a water source, just depends on how many trees are tapped. Possibly?
Great videos! However, I think a more skeptical eye ahould be given to the Sawyer, it’s reliability, and recommendation.. I will never recommend the sawyer to anyone.
