This isn't accurate. "Balanced" in terms of headphones has a completely different meaning, which is misleading. There is no common mode rejection. It just means that both the L and R headphones get their own separate positive and negative feeds, whereas with most headphones, the negative feed is shared. In theory, this leads to less crosstalk, better channel separation, and better voltage swing. But actually being able to hear the difference is kind of arguable.
One point that Paul misses is in saying that with headphones, there's nothing to get the "common mode benefit", referring to common mode rejection. Paul is quite correct in describing delivery of a balanced source to electronics for amplification, for which the electronics must be designed to operate correctly in differential mode to provide common mode rejection. How accurately the circuit operates will determine the achievable CMRR (Common Mode Rejection Ratio). However the driver of a headphone inherently operates in differential mode, rejecting (not responding to) common mode input. So if any benefit accrues from balanced drive, the headphone automatically implements it. It's one reason why headphone cables don't need to be shielded. To see how this happens, a signal comes to the driver's terminals through two conductors, one positive-going, the other an identical (hopefully) negative-going equivalent, the driver receives a voltage which is the difference between the two (differential mode). Say at a particular instant one is half a volt (500mV) positive and the other is half a volt negative (-500mV), the headphone driver receives 1 volt (1000mV). If a common-mode voltage is developed on the cable, say from a nearby magnetic field (e.g. mains switch noise), the voltage change on each of the wires is in the same direction (common mode). So if a spurious negative-going signal of (-)100mV is developed on the cables (just as an example, that would be huge), the positive one drops to 400mV, the negative one goes to -600mV, and the difference is still 1V. The driver in the headphone doesn't see any difference, it's still just getting 1V of input. So it implements common mode rejection. The same mode of operation would occur if the balanced signal was delivered to the primary winding of a balanced to unbalanced transformer, which also provides common mode rejection.
Just to add- it'll depend on the topology as well. I've got a Violectric V281. If you run it single ended to the headphones, one amp drives both channels. If you run it balanced to the headphones, two amps drive, one for each channel. On that amp it makes a big difference what headphone cable you use.
While I also buy premium balanced headphone and earbud cables, I don’t believe these things sound significant better considering the impedance and cable lengths involved. But as an audiophile it gives some confidence in the setup 😊
Exactly. It depends almost entirely on the amp you’re using, I’m not sure why that’s ignored so often when this subject comes up. Obviously how long the headphones cable is and such could matter but for almost all casual listeners that’s pretty much moot.
@@georgemartinezza Premium means much more expensive looking and claiming to have magic powers due to being balanced with silver plating and lots of cores etc. Do I believe they make an audible difference? No.
@@ThinkingBetter of corse, higher is better. : D even same brand has different "levels" of a product, JBL has affordables and some very good hifi speakers yes, as their premium line
I have a pair of Focal Utopia headphones and it came from Focal with both a single ended cable and an XLR4 balanced cable. I can testify that there is a clear difference between the two cables. When connected with the XLR cable, music is clear, detailed and soundstage is wider. With the single ended cable, soundstage is more boxed in and music sounds muddier especially in the high-mid and high frequencies which then leads to it sounding less detailed. Maybe on cheap headphones, balanced cables don’t do much, but on high end headphones, it absolutely makes a huge difference.
Or maybe the single ended one is badly constructed. That way the XLR4 is forced to customers but it is biaised as it could simply be better built (better components inside). Can you check and then confirm?
The benefit of a 4 pin connector to your headphones is that you are loading each speaker driver individually. So sound stage is better. In a large PA you’re better off driving the speakers with discrete hot and cold wires. The same exists for headphones and why the connector is better than TRS. You cannot prevent signal from bleeding into both drivers when using TRS
Im no pixie engineer but it always made sense to me that you can put a single ended connection into an amp that is spesifically designed to give a balanced output and has 2 separate amp circuits for this purpose, and then send that balanced signal through a balanced wire. What doesnt make sense to me, is having a balanced amp and balanced cable without actually rewiring the headphones internally too. My experience so far have been that headphones actually rewired to be balanced so they can both push and pull makes quite alot of difference, while only running a balanced cable into the headphones but the last bit being single ended just... makes them louder? It does seem to help a bit with headphones that are exceedingly hard to drive, but most of them just gets a volume boost from what ive seen.
if you're 2/3rds balanced may as well do balanced for the headphones as well, which is what many (even manufacters) recommend. Often the balanced output on the HP amplifier is better than the SE since it was priority in the design.
interesting to see the Sony ES speakers and DAC (boxes) in the background. There is no balanced headphones with the exception of electrostatic headphones.
Depends on the headphone amp, because many uses two amps stages for xlr output, one for each L and R. So yes there may be a Big difference if You use xlr
I struggle to hear any difference between balanced and single ended audio on headphones, except a few that seem to benefit from more power to drive them.
Balanced output to the headphones pushes out more power per channel to the drivers. This, in some headphones, results in a more impactful sound. I know there are those who say this is nonsense, but it has definitely been my experience. The HD 660S did not impress me until I ran it balanced and now I will not use single ended on it, ever.
Paul and the original person to write in are talking about two different things. A balanced interconnect which uses common mode rejection, otherwise known as differentialy balanced, works by sending two identical signals, 180 out of phase with each other. The receiving device amplifies the difference, not one signal or the other. This way, any interference that hits the wire will effect both signals the same way and the difference will be the same. A balanced amplifier, be it for speakers or headphones, is one that uses two discrete amplification circuits per channel, in a push / pull configuration. This configuration works to reject any cross talk between channels, as well as doubling up the power. Not that you couldn't just make one amp circuit more powerful. Most high end headphone amps are balanced and should therefore use a balanced cable in order to use the whole amplifier. That said, a high quality single ended amp can still sound amazing and you won't need an XLR cable. A few single ended amps out there include an XLR port for convenience, but in that case, there is no direct benefit to using it.
I am also in doubt whether you will hear a difference, but the (theoretical) difference between single ended and balanced headphones is that the latter are not sporting a common return conductor between L and R. That may have the benefit of slightly better channel separation.
That is true, but it will depend on how the headphones are wired. The same result (elimination of the common earth return) occurs if the channels are carried per four conductors from the plug, as my old Sennheiser 424's did. But it's probably a safe bet that the majority of consumer headphones run a 3 conductor cable - my Audio Technica ATH-M50x's certainly do, since there's a 3 contact plug at the headphone, it being a replaceable cable. With the universality of molded plugs, you can't just look in the 6.5mm plug any more to see if there's 3 or 4 conductors.
@@ThinkingBetter Yes, and better separation might not be what you want anyway with headphones. One of the objections to the subjective accuracy of headphone listening is the channel isolation in comparison to listening to speakers.
@@ThinkingBetter I wasn't proposing it as any kind of solution, just an observation of fact, but introduction of crosstalk is actually put forward as an approach to countering the "unnatural" channel isolation of headphones.
Now I've heard Everything 🥹😂😂😂.... who makes balanced line headphones ? Secondly , DAC to headphone amplifier cable should be very short .. 50cm max .... then balanced / unbalanced would not be noticeable!
Good to know. I have an ifi zen DAC on my pc, it has 4.4 balanced output on the front, but I still haven't used it though, I need to get the right cable for my headphones first. Do you think I'll hear a difference with the regular output? Also I'm wondering if I need to get an amp (thinking of ifi zen CAN), but again, if it works on the DAC, would a CAN really make a notable difference? audio stuff is so complicated ...
I have both, the ifi Zen Dac I bought first and was impressed with the improvement. When my budget allowed, I bought the Zen CAN, it does sound significantly better, even more so when you engage Xbass and 3D. If your budget allows, get the Zen Can, they do look great in stack as well!!!
Let me 2nd what Neil writes…I used the Zen Dac with HiFiman Sundaras and was underwhelmed…before returning or selling both, I decided to get the Zen Can and the results after stacking them were great. That being said, I am not sure at all that the sound is $700 better than just listening with my QC35s…so, I guess the point is that if the cost does not stress your budget, I think you will be happy with the Zen stack…
@@fereracarerawith your Zen stack i assume you connect them with a balanced cable rather than RCA. Do you then use a balanced cable to your headphones ?
Your comment implies you're not aware of the tremendous amount of sound quality that can pass through a simple old-school RCA cable. Also, how else do you expect the analog signal to be transferred from the DAC to the amp?
You might include that all one has to do to make a set of regular 1/4" plugged headphones into balanced ones is change the connector. If someone has a headphone amp with a balanced output just replace the 1/8 " or 1/4" TRS plug with an XLR or as needed for the amp. Use the "ground" lead as negative and the signal wire for positive.
The headphones will need to have a four wire cable, with the ground common point having previously been made at the TRS jack for that to be possible. Two balanced channels requires four independent connections, there can't still be a common earth return (ground) shared between L and R.
@@PlatypusPerspective ALL stereo headphones start with four wires at some point. Two from each driver. It's that simple! Other than that you just repeated what I said, so thanks I guess?
@@glenncurry3041 Indeed, all headphones start out with four connections to the drivers - to operate in balanced configuration those four connections must remain separate all the way to the input connector in order to convert a TRS to a 4 pin XLR or whatever connector is being used. Not all headphone cables do this. My Audio Technicas don't, my others have fixed molded cable terminations, so I can't say. But having repaired hundreds of broken headphone cables in my 50 years as a bench technician, I can say that many headphones run a 3 wire cable to the jack. If someone tries to change from a TRS connector and finds this, having a single common ground lead, that configuration can't be rewired to accommodate a balanced connection without also changing the cable and the headphone's internal ground connection.
@@PlatypusPerspective You are confusing a common wire between elements with ground. Any 3 wire cable can be used as two balanced lines with one common connection between them. Not idea. But technically correct. Care as too connecting to independent output channels would need to be watched should any common ground in the chassis be an issue. But there is no "ground" in a three wire headphone. There is a common usually tied to ground.
@@glenncurry3041 I simply continued your use of the term "ground" to refer to a nominally earthy conductor, as that was how you appeared to define it: "Use the "ground" lead as negative...". "There is a common usually tied to ground" - hence I use the term "common" on almost every occasion I utilize your description "ground". If it will clarify, I can edit each to put the word in quotes the same way you did. I wasn't certain if you were really proposing commoning the two cold outputs which of course you absolutely cannot do if the headphone amp is the common topology utilising pairs of bridged amplifiers. _My_ concern about someone being confused is for if a music lover unfamiliar with the territory understands your instructions to mean they can connect a common return on the negative side from the headphones to both L & R cold side, since there needs to be four connections. They would need to be clear that it would be a rare circumstance that they could get away with not having four independent connections.
Thank you. On my journey through the world of headphones, I thought to myself that I definitely need balanced headphones. Now I can invest more in important things.
