Barrel Flex & Impact Shift on the Sig Spear LT (vs URGI) 

Henry, on your video about which variant AK is most accurate I said you was missing a North Korean which you replied you wish you could get your hands on one, well I now own a North Korean type 68 that I would love to send out to see a video on practical accuracy if that’s alright and you’re down just comment back, thanks

Weird flex but okay.

Sig greatly appreciates you doing the QC testing they don’t do at the factory anymore

✅ Heavier than an AR15 ✅Less accurate than an AR15 ✅Bendy barrel

I should be working, I should be working, I should be working...I should be working on paying more attention on 9HR! WITNESS ME COUSIN HARRY!

I havent finished the video but ima go ahead and assume that the conclusion is that Eugene Stoner was a genius, and the AR is supreme.

I wouldn't care if it was some kind of budget rifle but this thing is carrying the prestige of the spear name and the price tag along with it. Once more the stereotype of sig usa using it's customers as beta testers holds firm.

Henry's "Oh myyyy..." with a tune says it all

From an infantry perspective, it was pretty common to have 150-200% troop capacity in the back of a vehicle while in full kit which would absolutely result in pressure being applied to your rifle in various ways. Also, could see this happening from a solid fall in the field, or running between cover/ working a barricade under stress.

Didn't Karl Lewis figure this shit out 20 years ago?

You just sold me on the URGI.

Oh the geissle. I have 2 and will never own another AR upper. Extremely accurate and extremely durable.

Your results look exactly like T-Rex Arm's. It appears that the barrel flexes, and the first shot post flex returns it to zero. If this gun was say, $1,000, I don't think it would be an issue. But at the $2,400 price point, and for use by servicemembers, that's simply unacceptable. The AR remains supreme.

I had a choice between this rifle and an LMT MRP last year. I bought the LMT and I think that was the right choice.

Why does it seem like Sig doesn't fully test their products before they leave the factory? "The future of military technology"

Phenomenal video guys. I look forward to seeing your practical accuracy results with this platform. I spent all day Monday with mine and was consistently printing 3 inch, 5 shot groups with every flavor of match ammo I had out with me, and 4 inch plus on non-match. It was the least accurate rifle I had out with me that day while also being the most expensive 😂. Glad y'all are well!

I absolutely live this kind of material.... Thanks Josh and Henry

Imagine having a can on this, running around with it, then having to make a decent shot.. Not giving the warm and fuzzies.

My buddy got one of the first ones. Showed up with loose rail and barrel. Torqued it down to spec. Blew up after 500 rounds. Sent to sig. They blamed it on Federal, said their 5.56 was loaded too hot. I’ll never own another Sog product.

How is it even possible to make a 3MOA gun in 2024? I've literally shot BCA ARs with better accuracy

What I've heard is that people have been getting better results by removing the handguard and barrel, and reinstalling them...paying close attention to the barrel screw torque specs. Supposedly people have found the barrel screws to be have serious variance in their torque values.

Mine doesn’t take that much force, just hand pressure and it’s way off. I’m tired of people coping for this shit you don’t need that much force! Even the most dogshit ARs don’t do this. It’s still pathetic they haven’t fixed this yet

Had the same zero shift with my 16”5.56mm spear LT. I promptly replaced it with a 16”Sig M400 X SDI. Accuracy was night and day. 2-3moa on the LT and sub moa with the SDI both with 77gr. otm.

Still.. favourite channel on youtube. Every video feels like christmass

Fantastic episode. Great testing.

Dude. This gun is like 2k. Shit should be good to go. New SIGs are overpriced crap, they look cool and are cashing in hard on the military contracts.

Cool video. Good info, data, and conclusions.

Thanks for this video. Worth discussing.

In summary, if you're looking at a SPEAR LT, get a URGI.

2 vids in a week, i liked that

I loved this video. Actual paper groups so we can see how accurate the gun is without buying it. Thank you. Plus you did some research on the barrel flex. Bravo.

Excellent test!

Damn good information guys!

You just saved me some money, thanks

love it! Well done yall

I don't have a Spear LT laying around to pull apart but seeing how it behaves and that the deflection is applied, "sets" and then returns to zero after one or two shots, I'd say the "issue" is with the barrel/reciever interface, the tolerances there aren't quite right or maybe they are, you'll have to speek to SIG. But in the meantime you or most likely Henry could try taking the Spear appart and cleaning all the mating surfaces and threads in that area, reassemble and try again.

"Duty grade" 😂 Honestly, I'm more disappointed by the control group. I can get that kind of grouping with ball ammo from a rack-grade rifle.

That's a problem....great job diagnosing it

Thank you.

I have one of the pre vertus MCX rifles, and it’s not just a spear LT issue, and when you have it in say, a vehicle as a truck gun, the barrel definitely shifts, there’s also a good amount of shift if you lean it against the wall or a stand that contacts the barrel and not the hand guard. Love the rifle, was just something I noticed years ago.

Great video, thanks, yall

My $1,500 rifle 1-1.5 MOA The Gucci rifle I wanted 2-3 MOA

Intresting that you conducted this with the arisaka part designed to address the issue. I would have expected the test to be performed in a stock configuration to reduce variables.

I had been holding off on a Spear LT and I get this test is a bit much for some but I’m going to keep holding off. Cheers

Comment from before watching video: SIG moment Comment from after watching the video: SIG moment lmao

Good testing

Easiest solution seems to be to recall the uppers and redesign the barrel clamp for a longer system that hugs the barrel more tightly and has less give. The LMT system uses over twice as much torque, and Geissele barrel nuts are very long in comparison. Squeezing the handguard is also probably suboptimal vs a qd latch at the handguard/receiver upper interface

Thanks for the shoutout!♥

I like this style of video. The topic is fine, especially if you’re interested in the rifle. But I like the exploratory, scientific approach in the video. It reflects your intelligence and seems unique

THANK YOU

That thumbnail is something else. Great research. It's weird to think that barrels bent like this and get back into shape just from one shot.

My local gun shop has a spare LT and I did the flex test on it and the hand guard absolutely moved significantly with minimal effort Absolutely none of my AR’s, including my SIG MCX Virtus does that

$2500 rifle, needs $500-1000 added to it to actually get to a more comfortable configuration as shown in the video, requires Re-QC by the buyer to actually have its parts properly torqued to spec; then still has barrel flex and is still roughly a 3 MOA rifle as a result. Some days, I am glad that I'm not that wealthy

Another Great Video 💯💥💥💥💥💥💥💥

Honestly, it doesn't seem like much of an issue at all. These impacts, like you said, are rare. And it demonstrated that it would return to zero after 1-2 shots. Worst case scenario, landing in the most awkward way possible, that hypothetical fall you brought up would only slightly affect one shot.

This is admittedly before I have finished watching the video. I’ll edit it for anything that gets said. My experience with these issues with my friend’s LT, one of the earlier civilian market ones, was largely: - Handguard would shift and stay shifted - Barrel would move off-center and stay there The first issue, the handguard, was fixable with proper torque and, for good measure and as a present, the addition of the Arisaka clamp. (Josh mentioned the clamp helping, it’s certainly nice for piece of mind.) The barrel was a *separate* issue, caused by it shifting in its clamping system, not necessarily just flexing. The LT doesn’t use a normal barrel nut. In my own experience, this was also fixed by torquing down the screws that fix the clamp around the barrel. The barrel will still flex, of course, but it won’t stay flexed. (Edit: Josh mentioned torquing down everything and then seeing the shift in the barrel. I know I messed with my friends barrel in between installing the clamp and torquing and when we next took it to the range. I don’t think I flexed it as much though. Very good to know.) Is it bad that an expensive rifle can have lackluster QC/QA? Absolutely. But at the same time, know how to maintain your equipment. It seems that a better design of the barrel clamping / attachment system could be in order as well, though how you’d do that within having to make ANOTHER rifle model I don’t know.

Nice video Г. Чан

The more information I see about SIG the more I am grateful I didn’t drink their kool-aid.

The firearm bend before the (hand)guard did CADIA STAND ✊

Great data points, not my bag but I wouldn't be surprised if Sig disconnected the LT in a few years like they have so many other rifles over the years.

In the days of handguard-mounted lasers, IR lasers, rangefinders, etc flex in the handguard itself could become a relevant problem too..... I would suggest a test with a forward-mounted scout-style optic (I know it's not practical IRL it simulates a laser in this case, just more accurate and repeatable), a suppressor to weigh down the front of the barrel, and 2 bipods one mounted as close to the magazine and one at the very front. Shoot a group with front bipod deployed then one with the rear one deployed. The forces on the barrel and handguard are somewhat realistic. if there is a vertical shift in the zero then there is definitely something flexing.

When the military teams first started the switch to M16 for long range competition they determined that the force from the sling would certainly bend the barrel, and even heavy barrels would bend. This lead to development of free float handguards for national match competition. This is all due to the barrel bending and assuming that the barrel and receiver act like a unit. The barrel itself will not be deforming permanently, it's a relatively strong piece of steel. Another question could be does the barrel move within the barrel nut? It shouldn't but this might vary from gun to gun. Another question- does the handguard move? The handguard doesn't attach as well to the receiver as the barrel does so it is likely that the handguard moves more than the barrel would. I know how the AR barrel attaches to its receiver, how does the SIG barrel attach?

When they shoot a 9-shot group, I feel that tingle like when they say the name of the movie in the movie

I don't think this is really that shocking given the way the barrel mounts to the receiver vs. the way an AR barrel mounts. It wouldn't really dissuade me from buying the rifle. The price is what does that ;-)

I'll keep my money and my DD MK18 upper, not a fan of the Sig Spear LT.

Depending on the temper, it is possible for metal to take a temporary set. Firing a round or two adds force and heat, which may allow the temporary set to relax back. Can't say if that was the case here. One test would be to flex right, shoot, flex left, shoot, and repeat several times. Then see if there are two groupings.

Loved the video, so sorry guys there needs to be a follow up 😂 . The glaring question not answered is… what happens if force is applied left or right consistently due to a certain shooting position, e.g. barricade or bipod on uneven terrain. Thx

In 10m Olympic PCP air-riffle shooting barrel flex is a big thing. The barrel should not touch the action or the air-cilinder. They tune the barrel with weights for optimal grouping. It is not about bending a barrel by hand.

I own one and the first thing I did is took it a part and torqued the barrel screws then I bought a zero retention clamp for the barrel and it is as solid as any other rifle barrel. Yesterday I shot 1.7 or so moa

Accuracy is always an issue when barrels heat up, especially in semi autos. As for flex, its even worse when you add a suppressor, or put pressure on the barrel (leaning against a tree or sticks). Know your firearm and the expectations.

Im curious if bedding the barrel extension to the recevier would fix the issue. Additionally, I'm wondering if the class of fix for the threads on the barrel and barrel extension are sub par.

Yeah, I'm still not sold on any new Sigs, especially since the P320's initial issues. Honestly I'm not impressed with the XM7 rifle the Army adopted either. This isn't to say I don't like Sig, but I do prefer my old school made in Deutschland Sigs. As far as carbines go I'll stick with my Geissele SD, Barrett Rec7di, and DD rifles. Remember kids Milspec for Big Army still means the lowest bidder.

Science be praised!

When i first got my spear lt i saw the barrel flex sht my pants on this 2k rifle then bought arisaka clamp & retorque both the mil-spec poundage and its now as tight as any of my ar15s so this issue is on sig qc imo.

Sig screws over its civilian customers point proven.

It would be interesting to see if a budget ar has a significant POI shift after flexing the barrel.

Can you test the lmt mrp upper? Similar barrel to upper connection to the MCX. Also curious whether this is an issue with all generations of MCXs, or just to the spear lt.

Reject freefloat modular tubes, return to drop in quads

Totally expected this. 😅

Interesting results. I would also be cool to see results with different barrel profiles, government vs hansen vs pencil, etc.

That spear LT had such a nasty grouping that y'all had to bring in the Geissele so Henry would feel better that it was the gun and not him. After seeing the grouping from the Geissele, I'm like damn.

Given how I have literally seen an M16A1 barrel visibly bent after one of my soldiers tripped while running and jammed the gun between two trucks groing together, and yet no one really worries about barrel torturing from normal field service, I think I can accept the Sig Spear LT shifting when you crank on it with your body weight. I'm curious about the barrel returning after the first "flex" shot - that indicates the barrel was diligently stress relieved, and after the barrel gets a little heat and vibration, it returns to it's relaxed "set point". Which implies its also likely to have minimal shift from heat, until you get it hot enough you've skragged the barrel anyway. Not that I'm likely going to buy a Spear - it's a nice rifle, but it isn't, "Honey, I spent the Florida trip money," nice *to me* . 😉

I think we should be allowed to have a hate boner for some products and companies because otherwise no one will give any criticism without coping and downplaying it. Scathing objective criticism with no positive remarks shouldn't be considered hate either.

This is a really interesting test. I should do a repeat test using a TG36 and Steyr Aug and see if they have similar impact shift or not!

Your results on the URGI match my own; they shoot well, hold zero well, and run IR lasers well.

Makes me feel better with my MCX Virtus when I got it a week before the LT came out, it doesn't seem to flex like that.

This is an amazing video and I can't wait for the practical accuracy of this rifle, but when is the FN M249S getting a practical accuracy run?

With spear in .308, we kept on getting baffle strikes after about a handful of shots. Prior to the strike, the point of impact shift got so bad that we would completely miss an 18" target at 100yards. The shift without a suppressor was not as bad

Note that Delta Force doesn't care about this because they're using 10.5 barrels at rock throwing distance. Similar to how the KSK didn't care about the HK 416A8 having something like a 5 MOA accuracy.

If that would be my rifle I would check the torque on Barrel. Then if it’s fine and not overtorqued change the muzzle device to change harmonics. If you maybe it just doesn’t like that 77gr IMI due to twist angle or bullet length.

In you first shots video you mentioned the handguard wasn't very snug and you had to buy an aftermarket part for it. I bet that creates problem for setups dependant on an aiming laser.

I’m not sure if someone has commented it yet but maybe the harmonics resettle the rifle after flexing it. I have an M1A in a sage chassis and it being long I have banged it on a few doorways and the first shot doesn’t always go where it should, and same thing, the rest settle exactly within the 1 moa zero. Similar. Just a battle rifle thing I guess.

I would love to see you take the new Army sig spear in .277 with the new optic and all that fancy stuff to the speedway.

while i think this may be a bit silly. i wonder if any other rifle could hold up any differently. i think you need more data on other rifles. not to defend the spear lt, but mostly im curious.

Ever since SRA came in the United States and got the American contract for military weapon sigsauer has gone downhill. I used to say it was one of the best guns in the world and I won’t buy one.!!

I got to fire a Spear LT and was shocked as to how light it felt compared to my PWS MK116. I would say the Sig was more accurate than my PWS, but the PWS recoil impulse was much smoother and less sharp than the Sig.

Id like to see this on other rifles.

I'm curious to know if this is also happening on the regular Spear with its 6.8 mm cartridge. Maybe there's less flex with a larger barrel/more material on the barrel nut, but given that they share a common design and differ only by caliber, I would think this would be a HUGE issue on the XM7...

My original MCX, now called the Legacy flexes pretty bad as well. Not sure if it’s the barrel or how the barrel attaches… I’m pretty sure the heat treat on these barrels is up at a high Rockwell so if I had to guess it would be the mounting solution. Just a thought.

I'm curious to see this test done to the LMT MARS AR15 setup. Wondering if the barrel "clamp" system of the SIG is helping give more of an offset from the flex and if so does the LMT clamp design have similar potential issues of wider flex.