Here's my first video on the basics of playing Italy in the board game Diplomacy. I call it "Aperitivo." My links are as follows: floridamandiplomacy.wordpress... / discord / floridamandiplomacy ko-fi.com/floridaman
personally I see the benefit of a I/T. my first ever solo was as Italy and it was with an I/T. I managed to eliminate Austria and have 8 centers by 1903. It really depends on the diplomatic situation
I seriously applaud your inventiveness, but I think the only way that could happen in a normal game of Diplomacy is if Turkey made some very serious mistakes, coupled with the diplomatic situation being very unusual.
I don't think I agree to everything you say. I think France / Italy can be a very potent alliance and can be game-lasting, since it doesn't have a natural limit (like say Austria / Italy has). Also - no mention of Trieste gambit, which I believe is one of the best opening for Italy AND Austria (going for Lepanto, but Italy taking Trieste in F01 and building 2 x fleets). Overall, I feel like alliances are much more game dependant - play the player, not the country.
I don't have any objection to your disagreeing with me. I think France/Italy is not quite as difficult as Italy/Turkey, but either of those alliances is kind of unnatural. Simply put, the only country France/Italy can attack together early on is usually Germany. So I'm not sure how that becomes a game-lasting alliance. I would think it would need to start as a non-aggression pact, and then become a real military alliance after Italy has defeated Austria or Turkey, I think, and it would also require that France never chooses to turn on Italy with the help of any of the surviving Eastern powers (which would be a poor choice for France, unless the surviving Eastern powers are ill-suited for alliance). In short, I think France/Italy or Italy/Turkey can happen, but my suspicion would be it's not so much a matter of having unusually insightful and open-minded Italian/French/Turkish players as having either them or their neighbors act in a way that's against their immediate self-interest. The Trieste Gambit sounds a lot, to me, like Austria agreeing to give up a home center for no obvious gain. I think I may have been in a game where this happened, but I wouldn't exactly call it beneficial for Austria. More commonly, a Key Lepanto move into Serbia gets bounced, and Italy winds up in Trieste "accidentally," or Italy walks into Trieste without any warning. It seems more like just asking for Austria to trust that Italy will use Austria's center better than Austria can, which does not read as a reasonable request to me if I'm Austria. Maybe I agree to it if I'm desperate. Maybe not even then. I like to play the player, not the country, too, but there are limits to that ingrained in the game itself. France and Italy could ally together, but Italy can't actually help France deal with England without sending units through French waters, nor can France help Italy if the Eastern powers attack Italy (unless Germany has already been killed off). So, geography tends to be a hard limit on much of what's possible.
@@floridamandiplomacy regarding Trieste gambit - all I can say is: "Try it." I thought it was a strange choice for Austria when I first encountered it. Now it is my favourite Austrian opening. I have to have a good reason NOT to offer it to Italy (and when I do, I can't think of a reason why an Italy would not accept it). You (Austria) solve your biggest 01 problem (Venice and Trieste border), you can guarantee Greece, you gain an ally (obviously, communication dependant) against R/T, so effectively you create incentive for one of R or T to join you, you don't need that 2nd build anyway (especially since you should now be able to tell where the Italian army can go - keeping it back for defence is the worst choice). I don't think we have to discuss why this is good for Italy. Mind you - this is all from online play - I've no idea how this would work in f2f.
One possible version of the key Lepanto is for the Austrian fleet in Trieste to convoy the Italian army Venice-Albania in spring 1901, so it goes "through" Trieste without occupying it.
That could happen, but the convoy is only possible if the fleet vacates Trieste and moves into Adriatic Sea, so it would still require that Austria probably leave Trieste unprotected to a possible Italian stab. I do think there's some advantage to this idea, though. Frequently, when Austria and Italy attempt a Key Lepanto, Turkey will try to bounce Italy's attempt to move out of Trieste into Serbia.
@@floridamandiplomacy My mistake earlier. In Spring 1901, Italy orders A Rome holds, A Venice to Apulia, F Naples to Ionian Sea. Austria orders F Trieste to Albania. Italy and Austria have vacated Venice and Trieste, and you also need DMZs with third parties in Piedmont and Tyrolia. In the fall, 1901, Fleet Ionian convoys the Italian army from Apulia to Greece with Austrian support from Albania. Tunis can wait until 1902 because it is a "guaranteed" build for Italy.
@@tomau3946 That sounds like a very intriguing opportunity, if Italy trusts Austria. And Austria does have a good reason to keep their word, if they have actually agreed with Italy to do this. I like it!
@@floridamandiplomacy No guarantees, but Army Rome and Army Apulia protects Venice against "everything" in 1901 except F Trieste to Venice, A Vienna to Trieste. But in that case, Austria would be opening herself up to Russia. And an Austrian fleet in Venice is less dangerous than an army.
@@tomau3946 Yeah, I think Italy's worries in 1901 are a lot less serious generally than Austria's, so I wasn't even worried about the Austrian fleet move, but you're right, those points of vulnerability are quite small.
This source uk.diplom.org/pouch/Zine/F2007R/Burton/statistician3.htm says that Turkey is indeed Italy's number one enemy, Austria is number two, and France is "only" number three. An Italy-Austria alliance is certainly possible, but not a given.
That source is talking about the full game length when it refers to mutual antagonism between Austria and Italy. That source also points out that "France's high solo frequency may be directly attributable to his ability to build fleets in Marseilles," which allows France to take Italian centers and Tunis. In this video, I'm talking about *early* game strategy. In order to win as Italy, you will certainly have to defeat Austria eventually. However, attacking Austria in the early game is usually a worse move for Italy than fighting France or Turkey (assuming that you would have an ally against whoever you fought). Once France and/or Turkey is eliminated, Italy should then choose a good moment to go after Austria and secure those centers. In short, Italy and Austria very frequently work together in the early game, but for either to win, they must stab eventually.
I've actually had some good games as Italy, taking Mun early. But it has been as part of going against France early and just borrowing Mun for a build and then going for Bur and Pic. Have demanded a pretty gullible French player though.
That's a good point. I can definitely see that strategem working. Not many Germans would go for it, I think, but I can certainly see that being a viable idea, and I think it would work better for the IG attack on France than most other paths those two could try to take. I don't think it necessarily demands a gullible French player, either. It's a pretty unconventional maneuver, so any Frenchman who's not very experienced will not see it coming.
I am passionate about history in general, but my knowledge base is definitely stronger in European history... my impression of Garibaldi is very favorable.
@@floridamandiplomacy I asked because I'm Italian and I was pleasurably surprised to see an American (I don't know if you're really from Florida or if you're called like that just because of the meme) hint at Italian history like that. Also your pronunciation of Aperitivo was spot on.
@@Sploack I am indeed from Florida originally. I think Italian history is very interesting, but in truth, I don't know as much about it as I'd like. I mainly know about a few specific figures and a few specific periods, though I hope to learn more. And thank you! Hopefully I can do a decent job with the next videos' titles, too.
