I'm conflicted over the sound design in the new version, i appreciate the actual sounds of heavy weapons and pistols etc. But there is so much charm in the older versions sound.
The thing is when you take away the (sound) charm the scenes are so flat, people just looking at each other firing guns. It looks so much stupider with the new sound mix but the oringinal I could watch all day...
The original sound effects added to the comic book aspect this film was going for. Adding realistic gunshot sounds and stuff turns it into a Nolan Batman film and that's not what this is. Both have their respective place.
I think that the spaghetti wild west style gun sounds with that over the top use of ricochet whines fits perfectly to the overall theme. In fact after seeing that movie a dozen times my brain expect to hear those sounds and now that they are not present it feels wrong, so I have heavy bias to favor the original. New audiences probably don't notice anything being particularly off with them.
With old movies that have multiple versions, like the original Star Wars trilogy, I’d like options that allow you to mix and match elements before pressing play. I’d pick a few enhancements from over the years, but ignore and effectively delete so many changes.
@@bradleyj.fortner2203 teal lighting effects? What kind of display are you viewing it on? I would ask the same thing to the guy on the video. The 2160p is spectacular. Black levels and shadow detail are greatly improved on the UHD compared to the VC-1 Blu-ray the improvements here, and elsewhere, are less dramatic when compared to the remastered Blu-ray. Blacks are significantly richer and deeper and more complimentary to the photography and lighting.
@@jonnyshanon2103 I'm watching on an HDR screen, and the image is royally FUCKED. Everything has a teal tinge, the contrast is cranked up to 11 which blows out everything (a ton of detail is absolutely obliterated), and there are cyan halos around all the hotspots. It's amateur hour stuff that makes me seriously wonder if it was graded on an (uncalibrated) SDR monitor. It's nice that the blacks are no longer crushed, but getting to see what you couldn't before comes at the expense of distorting or outright removing everything you already could.
This blu-ray needs an enema! A phenomenal job with the video and it is a damn shame this 4K release is so messed up in terms of the overly teal filters and the horrendous new sound mix. I will be sticking with my diamond luxe edition for now. Have you also noticed how bad white balance is in the 4K release of Ghostbusters(1984)? To me, it is just as shocking as Batman's. I would love to see a comparison video if you haven't made one of those already regarding that particular release compared to the others.
@OcpCommunications I heard there is a box set coming out in September, maybe they might include the 5.1 from the first Blu Ray. I would totally love it if they took the PCM Stereo from the Laserdisc and synced it up, I would totally be happy with that. And also, that blue and teal is just way too much.
Exactly. The Batman world is a mix of styles. 50's style buildings, clothes, and cars mixed with Batman's cutting-edge technology. BTAS especially highlighted this.
I can see how fans are upset by this new transfer and while the teal gives an interesting and sharper look to the film, it feels like WB tried to color time it to make look more like Nolans Dark Knight Trilogy. My biggest problem? STOP REMOVING CLASSIC GUN SOUND EFFECTS IN MOVIES! Terminator, Scarface, Jaws, The Dollars Trilogy and now Batman? Why stop there and take it away from the most iconic for the sounds with Dirty Harry? What I love about the gun and explosions sounds of this movie is while the film has its own style and tone as a dark and serious take on Batman, many of the sound effects give the film its still needed comic book feel. Imagine getting rid of the POW! ZAP! WHAM! in the original 60s Batman show and replacing it with BLOODY NOSE! BROKEN ARM! SMASHED APPENDAGES! Bottom line Im so thankful I got the original blu ray box set when I did at the hockshop.
@BigJackFilms I agree with you there, It is so frustrating when they change the sound effects for movies, and everytime they change the color timing, it never looks as nice or natural. At least with Jaws and Scarface, the original tracks are included, the only problem is that they don't sound as good as a Laserdisc, LOL! I heard that the Kino Blu Rays for the Dollars Trilogy were bringing back the original tracks in DTS HD, but I also heard that the colors for FOF & GBU are highly revisionist, and that GBU still has a couple video edit mistakes, and that the only way to get For a Few Dollars More uncut is still the German Blu Ray, and that the German Blu Ray for Fistful of Dollars is the best for color timing. So many classic movies are getting messed with. And also, while the Jaws Blu Ray looks really great, am I the only one that feels that its a bit too smooth? And the Quint monologue has inaccurate colors in a attempt to make the color timing more consistent.
I'm guessing he's not calibrated it properly, which is a common thread I see in a lot of reviews. Hey, it may just be his preference, which is fine, but it strikes me as odd. HDR adds so much depth and realism to the picture. It's not just about the colors themselves, it's about making films look more lifelike and less film-like. Some people don't like that and I can see both sides. Personally, I love my 4k stuff WITH the HDR.
Gotham here actually felt and looked like a gothic, dystopian city as opposed to the modern films where Gotham is basically Detroit or Chicago without any artistic vision or character behind it.
Has anyone ever answered the question why in the trailer, Joker clearly says "Where does he get those wonderful toys?" but in the movie, the sound cuts to "Get those wonderful toys?" Always bugged the shit out of me.
@@bujilou Yeah, check it out, unless they've fixed it in a more recent release. It looks like bad editing as it gets a tiny part of "he" but not anything before.
@@JaxDagger Original movie release and subsequent VHS version, it was cut, sounded like a mistake in the cut of the dialogue. I have seen the blu-ray and it does restore the line.
I've always noticed that since it first came out on vhs. It always seemed like he said "Get those wonderful toys". But turns out the audio has been mastered in a way that makes the "Where does he..." part virtually in audible (you'd have to turn it up real loud to hear that part). The special edition DVD adjust the audio so that the full line is more audible.
Wtf...the sound effect comparisons blow my mind. The sound effects is what furthers the nostalgia even more. I think a true fan of this movie can instinctively cue the sound effects in their head while thinking of this movie. It is part of the whole art of making this film.
Excellent side by side sound comparison, Oliver. The 4K version just sounds more updated. I’m not sure if it is better or anything but just sounds more updated.
I thought I was going nuts with the color stuff. I ended up rewatching the whole thing on the previous Bluray version and prefer that color scheme as it's more true to the original movie. I think the blue hue does give Batman Returns some enhancements and think that the Batman Returns remaster was pretty good
I still have my Batman Anthology DVD set, it sounds and looks brilliant on DVD which is really rare for films or tv. And Oliver talked briefly about Thunderbirds, when the U.K. Blu-Ray came out they cropped the picture and had mixed the sound very badly, the best versions are the US or JP Blu-Ray. Which is why Network Distributing handled both Captain Scarlet and Joe 90, they remastered both the picture and sound extremely well. I believe this is also why they’re handling the new remastering of Monty Python’s Flying Circus.
wow great observation. The original stock gun shots gave those scenes a retro/comic vibe. That was an important dynamic to the action sequences in this film. Prettttty lame
Well, it's a remake hahah. Am thinking of upgrading to a 4K player, but seeing these, the Terminator 1 sound effects and a couple more I think I'll wait. At least they did an excellent job on the Predator 4K transfer, as opposed to the ultimate hunter edition blu-ray, also known as the "plastic Carl Weathers one".
Great review, as always! A practical question: how do you turn HDR off? Is the screenshot at 9:32 from the menu of your BD player or of your TV? Which brand or brands support that? Thank you!
I myself am used to the older style sound. But on the other side of the coin I do appreciate the more realistic approach they have taken. Another version to appreciate.
I got see the movie in NYC theater in 89 and for me its a comic book movie and I love the classic sound effect more it fit the mood better but trying to add a real sounds in a comic movie just don't fit right.
It's interesting how there are often changes in sound from an original theatrical screening to VHS release, and onto later formats. While my memory on specifics has gotten rusty over the years, I saw "Batman" (1989) in the theater as a young adult, and bought it when it was first released on VHS in the U.S. that fall, and I noticed changes in the soundtrack even then. I could swear the background music at the party at Wayne manor was different in the theatrical release from the home video release. Anyway, thanks for the review!
I did notice in Batman Returns some sounds are missing altogether. Like the panning shot of the red/green traffic light no longer makes a switching sound.
When you re-release in higher quality, all you are supposed to be doing is cleaning it up more. Not altering the colors or the sound. This is ridiculous..
caps-a-holic.com/c.php?a=1&x=496&y=329&d1=13177&d2=13179&s1=131587&s2=131619&l=1&i=0&go=1 They went back to the negative. Maybe actually consider researching the issue and stop trusting every youtube vid you see.
At first l liked the updated gun sounds for Scarface but now I prefer the original mix. I believe on the Blu-Ray you can switch back and forth between the mixes if I'm not mistaken so I'm glad that option was included. I haven't heard the sounds for the 4K version of The Terminator but I can imagine they all sound like modern action movie gun sounds versus what was used back then.
Thank you for this . I appreciate your comments here. I have not pulled the trigger on this yet but I’m glad someone has finally addressed the weird colour timing. I saw this in 89 in the cinema so I know that the shots I’ve seen so far are just too cold (like you said same look as the disappointing T2 4K remaster). The only thing they did on previous versions was to lighten it up for home video. The film was darker when originally projected. Great review. Best one I’ve seen of this release(and they’re have been a lot!) keep up the good work mate.
I'm sticking to my Blu-ray Steelbook, this is a disgrace! What it up with studios remastering a print, with the overuse of color grading, noice and sound mixes? Are they trying this hard making the presentation look new again, like it came out this year? I really don't like the blue tint, the abundance of white balance and the sound effects changed! It just doesn't work!
The Danny Elfman theme is absolute genius. Hairs on the back of the neck every time I hear it. Instantly takes me back to being a kid watching Keaton and Nicholson face off on BBC at Christmas.
"A movie is defined by how it looks and sounds... and if you change that, then it no longer represents its true intentions " I will write this on my home cinema room wall for this is a universal law
Hey Oliver, nice review! i am not sure about it but i think turning off the HDR mode to get regular 4k is giving you the problem with the weird highlights in skin tones and stuff because the picture has to converted to SDR... i am still looking forward to seeing all of the films in UHD but i am also waiting for the price to drop...🤓
I was also 6 years old when the movie came out and the vhs was my birthday present in 1989. It was my gateway drug to Batman comics and comic books in general. I am now 35 and still addicted
Interesting take on this remaster Oliver. The Digital Bits pointed out the same changes you did, but they were much more appreciative of the changes made. Their point was that Burton wanted these audio and visual tweaks, but didn't have time in the rushed post production period. Thanks for giving the other side of that viewpoint.
It's not all about pleasing old fan nostalgia. Some may be displeased with this release but it's evident that the film has been improved for a modern audience. It looks and sounds less dated. And as an old school 80's Batman fan, I felt like I was watching a new film, noticing so many new details, couldn't ask for more!
Nitrobotti, for a while, iTunes’ version of the movie was that. They updated it with the new sound mix, but others still say it’s the original mix is still there, so your mileage may vary.
@@gamestation2690 I find that hard to believe but I've never seen the movie in a theater (even though I've had several chances to see it on 35mm) so I can't say you're lying or anything. The audio is still the biggest problem to me though. I hate when they do new radical sound mixes and leave out the original track. Absolute bullshit!
@GameStation3 Ummm no disrespect but I think you're not telling the truth, Oliver Harper flat out said that he saw a 70MM print of Batman and it had none of the teal of the 4K master and the first Blu Ray was much more accurate with the exception of being a bit bright in certain areas. Movies in the 80s do not have teal.
@@Nitrobotti There is teal present in the 35mm prints at the Library of Congress and Academy Film Archive: zauberklang.ch/filmcolors/galleries/batman-1989/
I still remember seeing this movie on my 4th birthday, it was the most glorious thing I've ever seen. I remember getting goosebumps from the music. For me the upgraded sound is welcomed, but they should include the original mix for purist. When you have a modern sound system the old sounds just lack so much clarity.
You’re pretty spot on in your assessment Oliver. The 4ks for all four are a disappointment and mere catalog updates for WB. The 4k UHD for 89 has less teal and is at least a better presentation than the 1080p remastered disc as that suffers from some of the same issues as the Matrix remastered Blu-ray. You’re right that there is no official indication of any original crew members being consulted for any of the four transfers. They likely would have balked. Even with the teal being more minimal in the 4k of 89 on the UHD it is still off. I agree the overall look is not what an original print looks like. However Returns is absolutely ruined with teal throughout and NONE of that is in an original print. The audio is a disaster and ruins the effect of the mix of time periods in the film. The old SEDVD DTS you mentioned is good but like many dts dvd tracks is merely a few decibels louder than the Dolby track. The best sounding audio for 89 is still the old original mix releases on the Laserdisc and original flipper dvd. They have much more low end and still sound so good that it makes the Atmos totally unnecessary. For years I’ve waited for properly dark transfers of the Burton films and new transfers for the sequels and this dumping out is apparently all we’re going to get. It’s extremely disheartening. The audio for all three sequels are also remixes but less obviously so. It will still drive us fans nuts. I had hoped that 4k revisits night finally mean the director’s cut of Forever would be released but I doubt that will ever happen unfortunately.
Internet Fanedit Database (IFDB) is your friend. Their JL edit (Justice League: Reborn) did a comprehensive color job that fixed the garish palette. I'm sure someone can do it for this one.
@@gamestation2690 no, it wasn't, stop saying that. Cyan halos around the hotspots are evidence of the tint being applied, and poorly, as a separate filter during the digital grading process.
Great video, must’ve seen the original print 100 times but I actually really enjoyed the new 4k transfer, feel like it’s my new favourite way to watch the film
Orange and teal is everywhere now. I’m not fussed with people cleaning up stuff for modern home technology, but replacing stuff is a bit rubbish. I’d like to watch this with the new sound design, as I always thought the old ones sounded very stock like a Road Runner cartoon, but I’d still prefer it over replaced sound.
I actually don't mind the updated gun sounds. They always sounded cheesy to me, even when I was eleven. They sounded like an old western. It really jarred me. The new gun effects and cleaned up audio might make me revisit the film now. :D
I watched your turtles videos and came to realise we lived very similar lives when it comes to movies, very similar views but you always have little small memories of things from release that i forget about, I was 4 when batman came out and i remember seeing a trailer for it on another VHS rental, rented it as soon as it came out and its been one of my favourite movies ever since, i also remember when returns came out i was getting hyped to go see it with 2 older friends until they found out i wasn't old enough as it wasn't a PG release either, disappointing time, and every christmas the first one used to be on TV it literally became my christmas movie, sitting around playing with my batman figures, re-enacting the end scene with joker and batman on the top of the ghostbusters house that christmas in 91 on BBC1 I never fail to come away from your videos without having a memory brought back, keep up the good work my man hope to see you hitting that 1million subs in a few years times, you deserve it.
Right? I could quote 1989 Joker all day long unlike 2008 Joker. Jack Nicholson played both cracked and hilarious in perfect balance. Also that Smylex commercial cracks me up every time I think of it. xD "That luscious tan, those ruby lips, and hair color so natural only your undertaker knows for sure Hahahahaha."
Both are great. But over time I have come to like Heath's version a little better. And I loved Jack's version for years. I seen 1989 Batman at the theater when I was 10. Was my favorite movie for years.
We all are allowed to have our own opinions and that's all that matters.
5 лет назад
The sparks are blue and the fire is purple. Yuck! The new sounds are better, but not what I grew up with. Definitely sticking with my standard blu-ray.
The 4K sets for all the films seem to come with regular Blu-Ray discs. Are those the same ones from previous releases or are they the 4K masters downscaled to fit onto Blu-Ray? Even if the new 4K transfers end up being underwhelming, I might buy them for the regular Blu-Rays.
Bat Man Go back to 4chan with that shekel talk. Secondly, a user on bluray.com had 35mm cells of the film and posted pics of it on their forum...there was a blue tint that matches the 4K copy.
@Oliver Harper My biggest issue with the 4K of Batman is not including the original Soundmix. It would have been simple for Warner Bros to take the PCM Stereo from the Laserdisc and sync it up and I bet fans would have been happy, and also include the 5.1 from either the original snapper case DVD or the Remastered DVD & first Blu Ray. But no, there is no option for the original sound effects. I never saw the film in the theaters because I was never actually born at that time, and most regular people would never be able to remember colors of the prints, but when you watch the movie so many times on VHS, Laserdisc, DVD & Blu Ray & when the sound effects are different, you notice it straight away. I am hoping the box set in September at least has the 5.1 mix from the first Blu Ray.
Wow thanks for the comparisons. It’s really interesting. I do remember a lot of those sound effects. I don’t mind the knew ones. It’s interesting to know the history and how they changed things.
I saw this movie for the first time on Christmas day 1991. I was too young to see the film in the cinema and my we didn’t have a VHS player at that time. But that didn’t stop me from participating in Batmania though. I have the Toybiz figures of Batman, Joker, and Bob the goon. I even had the batmobile and Batwing for Christmas 89. No Batcave though :) I had just seen the Adam West movie a day previously on channel 4 I believe and have throughly enjoyed that. My first viewing of Batman was a life changing experience for me. Until that time Superman was my favourite comic book hero thanks to the Chis Reeve movies which I still love. But from the moment I saw Tim Burton’s Batman my tastes changed. I was drawn to the darker world and characters and the psychological complexity.
This was insightful, thank you. I'll likely still get the box set when it comes out and see the changes for myself. I've heard from a lot of people that like them. Fortunately, buying the new one does not delete my old blu-ray copy from existence, so I can still go back to that any time I want.
@AJ Exactly! They took all the grittiness out of it. Like they did with Jaws, Terminator, Scarface, The Good The Bad & The Ugly, A Better Tomorrow, etc etc.
The new sound fx to my ears give it a more realistic sound quality rather than a 1950s western wiz wiz bang bang quality that it had, this film is in my mind still a modern film, but I think I'm happy with me blu ray version of it still. uhd discs are still v expensive, on ebay you can get bluies near mint, sometimes completely mint for about three quid! eg Wall Street. I wish they wouldn't bother doing new art for old films and give me original art work/graphics on the case cover.
Thank you, Oliver! I was curious if I should buy this or not. I agree, I grew up with this film. And if they're gonna change the sound effects and change the dark images to a bright light blue color that feels nothing like the original, I'm not interested either. I'll just stick to my original Blu-Rays!
@Jim Cameron Just because its Atmos, doesn't make it better, they ruined the sound effects on the Atmos of Batman. Be grateful that Alien has no sound effects changes on the 4K/
@Pan Wrebski Define "Batman Theatricals". Also, they should have at the very least have the original soundmix from the old Blu Ray. Or even better, have the original PCM Stereo from the Laserdisc and the 5.1 from the old snapper case DVD from 1997.
@@Pete-eb3vo but Ridley Scott's other classic BLADE RUNNER DOLBY ATMOS remix is A1 or SUPERMAN or MATRIX 1-3 nobody miss . the original theatrical mix of all 5 classics
@@Pete-eb3vo don't forget the new remix was done under Tim Burtons supervision greenlighted so it is his Film we have to except and must respect his will
Good objective review of this presentation. I would have to completely agree RE the sound-effects changes, in particular the guns. They are cheesy and familiar but they fit in the ways you describe and are memorable to people who have seen this many times. If/when I had watched this (prior to learning this from your review) I would have instantly heard that something was wrong/changed.
don’t forget the sound effects are also the ones that get to be used in the lego batman 1 game and it adds a bit of continuity as well with the actual danny elfman score not to mention whenever something batman is done they use this movies things
Excellent review. I remember seeing the 4k remaster in the cinema and being SHOCKED. The new colour and sound mix definitely took me out of it. Glad I wasn't the only one haha.
Batman Begins is trash compared to the 89 Batman. How do you know it's not like the comics? I'm guessing you've read every Batman comic? I've read many Batman comics and Burton's version is much closer than Nolan's version.
Just to be clear. If I really don’t like the 4K sound or teal heavy image, this box set comes with the Blu Ray disc whose sound and imaging is unchanged right?
Oliver, could you share more info about home theater setup? I'm asking because from what I've seen in this video there might be something very wrong with how you're watching your HDR content. Assuming you have HDR compatible display you should newer allow your disc player to do any kind of tone and gamut mapping, instead you should let display handle it. Even the high end UHD players are frankly garbage at converting HDR to SDR. At one point you mention that setting your player to BT2020 colorspace helped the movie to look less teal, but that's because all HDR content is encoded in BT2020, so you actually making the movie look more correct by doing so.
