Batman and The Punisher Debate The Kill Rule (AI) 

Batman vs Anakin Skywalker or Darth Vader

2B vs spider-Man.

can you do one with batman and judge dredd

Do you do Batman meets dredd It be very interesting to see what their views are like on how the law should be

Who is voicing Punisher ?

Until the next reboot.

That's practically what Batman already does by time somebody regains consciousness after getting hit by Batman there already in the ER

Punisher is extremists it's like comparing a boyscott to a harden navy seal. Especially the 1980s.

Well that's why Batman breaks their legs so they don't get up again

Permanently.

But you know how he was fighting only in one block 😂😂😂 he kills two ra pist become 5 he kills them and they increase I think batman is right but the law system is bu ll sh it

No doubt. Both arguments are compelling and have alot of merit

Red Hood is the perfect balance in my opinion

​@@manintheline5331 judge dredd, he kill legally under the permission of the law. batman couldn't even stop dredd should dredd want to kill joker because the law is on dredd side, should batman save joker than batman would be against the law and considered as accomplice and a criminal which makes killing batman legal.

Fair list

Batman already technically abuses his 'power' by giving his enemies a 'fate worse thand death' it's a pretty known fact that Batman is known for to do with giving brain damage that is permanent etc.

and it's ironic for the final point to be about the wrongdoings of the Punisher because he's a 'misguided' vigilante who's acting out his justice... amazing point

@@godzillazfriction Not all encounters results in brain damage and not all brain damage is worst than death. Also when I said abuse power I mean putting limits on oneself makes them more humble and cautious.

@@randomcenturion7264 Thank you. But I think the Daredevil Netflix debate did the best job talking about both points. One of the greatness debate conversations ever.

"Every lowlife, every maggot piece of shit down I did it because I liked it! Hell I loved it!" -Frank Castle, Daredevil Season 2.

There are certain versions of the punisher that follow this to a T, but the main comic line punisher doesn't do this. The story itself is compelling, but in the end, he's not idealistic. And batman has become a hypocrite... you're not a pacifist if you're putting criminals in the hospital before the prison...

​@scilvortenebrae what is your general idea of what a pacifist should be? And what exactly should batman do? Use his words?

@deadeye6969 of course not. just, don't call it something it's not. Pacifism is the belief that any violence, including war, is unjustifiable under any circumstances. And that's clearly not what batman does

@@scilvortenebrae fair point

One of the best lines in the whole movie.

Based

You just forgot "revenge is not a valid motive", but other than that it's perfect.

My favourite childhood movie

Punisher Warzone comic. Good movie, good comic.

I like that

Not really, batman's method is predictable for criminal to realize they can do whatever they want as long as the court keep defending them

EPIC! So true!

Punisher doesn’t fight for the betterment of others. He simply enjoys killing and being in combat. Vietnam instilled within him a permanent bloodlust, and his family dying gave him a convenient target whom he could focus his urges on without worrying about the morality: criminals. He’s acknowledged this before.

@@blechb5317 That completely depends on which version of him you identify as definitive. Personally, my favorite being the Thomas Jane Punisher that we get in the 2005 Punisher game, he's so dispassionate and distant in his delivery, even when he's being humorous, that it speaks to me of a man whose only purpose left in the world is to do what he's doing. His wife, his children, they're gone. All that's left is to annihilate scumbags wherever he finds them. If he's insane, then it's not because he was always insane or always had an insatiable bloodlust or because whatever conflicts he was in (Vietnam or otherwise) broke him. It's because he had his shot at a normal life, and it was taken from him. So, now, he takes the twisted lives that criminals lead away from them. He's like Batman through a cracked mirror. The impatience that inherently comes along with fighting for a better _today_ instead of a better _tomorrow_ is the moral shortcoming of a man who had already been taught to kill, and who doesn't have enough of his life left to learn to be merciful.

Dredd would have him hired.

​@@Peter_Turbo4 Dredd would despise him, he hates vigilantes and he made it clear.

They would probably agree, i mean if anything Dredd is what Punisher does but legal

@@Blowtorch87 You ain’t know jack shit about Dredd, do you.

Punisher:-I like to kill bad guys Judge Dredd:-Me too Punisher:-Cool

Joel ain't a single father. He's a former father.

@@UtubeH8tr A former single father

Over a game of golf

Abby vs Kratos. Golf club vs Blades of chaos.

@@DoomguyIsGrinningAtYou.Golf club solos

That's the one problem. Batman stops others from deciding for themselves. If a cop was about to take Joker out, he'd stop him even if it's more than justified.

​@@juniorjunior5884That's where you're wrong. It's not just Batman who will stop him. Jim Gordon will do it too. We have two enablers protecting the most insane madman That has ever walked this earth.

I keep waiting for the story where some vengeful victim tries to kill Joker or Two-Face or someone. You get to learn about how their whole family is gone because of thIs psycho the system won't punish. Batman still appears and breaks all their bones before they can make the kill. The villain goes back into the corrupt and toothless system. The now crippled would-be revenge is murdered in the hospital by one of the villains henchmen. Batman proceeds to not GAF.

​@silverblade357 Then you don't understand Batman. He would explain that it's the courts duty to decide if someone should die, not random armed vigilantes and only use force if necessary.

@@twinzzlers Doesn't Gotham City canonically *not* even have the death penalty?

You mean Jason

@@NouveauView No, in the DCAU animated movie Batman Beyond Return of the Joker released in 2000, it was revealed that Joker and Harley kidnapped Tim Drake and tortured him into becoming a Joker Junior and in the final fight between the original Batman and Batgirl vs Joker and Harley where Tim was going to shoot Batman, he instead shot Joker ending his life.

@@animeman8203 Yes, but that was for the most part a one-time thing. Jason consistently becomes a criminal who goes against Batman's no-killing code.

@@LoinkLoink Batman's no kill code needs to take a hike as all it does is cause more pain and tragedy. With Injustice by letting Joker keep living he nuked Metropolis and murdered 11 Million people.

Yup ​@@animeman8203

Frank's way is idealistic too. Because its operating on the idea that he could eventually kill them all and the problem is forever solved which is far from realism. Frank even in the comics can never hope to kill them all neither can Batman ever hope to put them all away in Arkham or Blackgate. There are pros and cons to both. The key difference is that Frank's way unfortunately perpetuates an endless cycle of violence and revenge killings. The more extreme Frank's methods are the more extreme criminals will become in order to adapt. Which will 100% guarantee greater violence on innocent people as retaliation. Frank's way is short-term thinking. Batman's is long-term.

​@@mikecabrera7393Only because the writers aren't willing to have a storyline where someone wants revenge on Batman's rogues gallery because they wound up having a hand in ruining the person's life. Which I'm pretty sure a lot of Gotham citizens would want to do.

No he wouldn’t bro would get charges for disabling this mf and putting them in debt cuz of their hospital bills 😭😭

Assuming Batman wails on people without a second thought. All it takes is one coordinated strike to the temple and you can totally kill someone.

you dont think the literal superhero billionaire couldnt figure out how to not accidentally kill people

@@cum537 There's little he could do. There are too many factors. Movie injuries are not the same as real life injuries. People die by accident in physical contact sports despite millions of dollars of research put into it to keep the athlete's safe. There are trainers that make sure the athlete's are in a good condition to compete, referees trained to look for signs of injury, and medical responders inside the building that can be there at a moments notice, yet things still go wrong. And this is comparing "fake" fights (relatively speaking) to an actual fight where the person wants to kill you, in a real world where bad guys aren't predictable caricatures.

I mean he's not wrong in arkham knight you yeat mf with a tank and Electric s them at the same time still goated rip kevin rip arkham batman

AMEN

haha you're welcome! Seemed fitting

@@TheCouriersGambit I know, right? I mean I know it’s impossible that you got Kevin Conroy to voice, Batman, but it’s almost as if you actually got Thomas Jane to come back and voice the punisher for this.

Thomas Jane is still my goat Punisher. I’m glad, even if it’s just AI, that we got Kevin & Thomas together.

Thomas Jane is just so good as the punisher. Both in live action and in voice acting

Batman: You ever doubt yourself, Frank? Not even a little bit? “Oh no, I’d just killed a human being!” A human being who did a lot of bad things, maybe even evil, but has one small piece of goodness in them, maybe just a scrap or something!

punisher: you can’t deny that lives are saves because those bastards were put down. ‘You rather tell those people sorry you have to die today I promise we’ll make things better in a next life’?

What issue was this from?

@@vincentmcgettigan7948 It’s not from an issue.

@@twistoffatemaster Where's it from?

That is the gotham justice system's fault. Locking him up the first time he is captured is understandable, but after he breaks out and kills again he should be labeled remorseless and given the death penalty by the court. The idea behind his no kill rule is he doesn't want to be judge jury and executioner, which he wouldn't have to be if a real judge, a real jury, and a real executioner killed joker.

But the irony is that even with antiheroes like the Punisher, the main villains still alive.

@@starburst98 I don’t get why this is so hard for people to understand. The only reason his methods don’t work is because you need super villains to be reoccurring to sell comic books in a story that’s finite the villains could die, but the writing suffers because of the need to bring the Joker back every five seconds, or bring Bane back every five seconds that’s not evidence Bruce is wrong.

@@osamujapan8329main villain plot armor. From a writing perspective I understand why heros are given a no-kill rule it makes it easy to explain why the main villain lives but from a moral perspective the rule is stupid.

​@@starburst98theyre both stupid tbh

This is why theyre the goats

​@@manintheline5331men are brave

Yeah, i appreciate that in the writing here.

If only the fans could kill joker for good by saying Batman was chasing the joker and he fell into a volcano and burned to death or something.

I want the forgotten villains to come back but the Joker keeps hogging it. Same for the way lex luthor keeps hogging the villain role in Superman. I want the atom man back.

​@rickoshay5525 A comic where the courts actually put Joker on death row would be cool, or a comic where Bane breaks Superman

@@twinzzlers But then brought them both back XD

It's true, Joker's longevity ultimately says a lot about those who keep him in demand.

The Punisher isn't wrong.

Man from ham city?

You mean ark ham city yes he meant arkham city batman ​@goofyahhmcburb

That's the one story DC refuses to do. Joker goes to trial, is sentenced to death. Batman investigates everything and everyone, looking for the angle that this is some scheme of the Joker's or Ra's al Ghul or a dozen other conspirators. He finds it's entirely clean. He's also beaten over the head with the reality that no one living in Gotham hasn't been hurt by the Joker. Have him try for a technicality, claim that the jury can't be unbiased. The judge rejects that, because no human being exists who is fully unbiased, and the people of Gotham have a right to pass judgement as enshrined by the law. So now you have Batman, watching as the hour draws near, trying to deal with it and resolve his issues. Heck, if you want to do something really dangerous, have him converse with the Joker, and have Joker make the argument that 'This was always the only way it could end.' maybe go full 'I want to hurt you' and have him drop the 'Your just upset that the chase has to end, more than I am. I knew the act would have to end, but you?' and dissolve into laughter. The unspoken problem with Batman is that he never tries to actually Fix Gotham's justice system, possibly because he knows that's what it will lead to. (Have a vengeful Harlequinn point that out to him if you want bonus points.) Poison Ivy, Joker, Clayface, a dozen other members of his rogues gallery. All put up for execution by a jury because their crimes are beyond the pale. He has the money, the know how and if he wanted to, the influence as Bruce or Batman. It'd be easy to do. You could get any of a dozen artists, plenty of writers could handle the assignment, because it's always been out there, lingering, since the Joker kept being pushed to more and more terrorist actions. You could make it a big bat family crossover, with people going into each member's views on the matter, and have nothing change in the mainline comics if you wanted because else-worlds/multiverse is all management wants anyway.

What happened in their crossover?

@@twinzzlers In the 90's there was two crossover comics involving the two, but one had Bruce while the other had Azrael. I'm mostly refering to the second crossover with Bruce as the mantle of Batman. The story is kinda mid in my opinion. Jigsaw and Joker teamup to fight the Batman and Punisher, Batman and Punisher fight for a bit before a reluant team up, standard crossover affair. I think there is a lot you can do with the crossover with Frank making as excellent Foil to Bruce in many ways, but they never touched on this aspect except at the end. In where Punisher scares the crazy out of Joker and Batman had to swoop in to save Joker from Punisher's excution.

@thorwhitaker Yeah the part where Batman has to save Joker sounds familiar. It honestly has potential where you get a twisted good cop and bad cop scenario out of it, and if the author is smart, a very tense but engaging moral debate on killing villains.

Oh god finally someone with a f* brain that doesn't ride that bat meat and use his damn mind! Thank you!

Whatever he says will hold up, sure, until he kills someone who didn't deserve it. What then?

@@twinzzlershe hasn’t punisher isn’t sloppy

@@retronerds6884 Doesn't matter, eventually he'll fuck up

Not really then he acccpt going to jail or pusniment that what almost happend in show and movies and ani.tion when he though* he killsd* or did killd inccont persone ( one was *thing* and one was * mindo control* that got gim to poimt ..surrendering him self​@twinzzlers

it's genuinely not something he enjoys just something he feels he needs to do.

Depends on the interpretation​@@ryancialone3045

@@ryancialone3045Only in the shows/movies. In the comics he loves killing. After Vietnam, Frank gained an urge to kill that he couldn’t dispel. It alienated him from his family and he would hallucinate opportunities to kill others.

@@blechb5317 honestly then its just boring. because then what he does has little to do with any belief about how to deal with crime and people preying on the innocent.

@@ryancialone3045 I don’t see how that’s boring or a bad thing. That’s how he is throughout the Max comics, which are widely regarded as arguably the best material ever to feature the Punisher. It’s much more intriguing to explore a main character who’s aloof and morally grey, more creative choices than just him being yet another nice guy who got handed a bad deal by life/the system.

That was something that was added but wasn’t in original runs

Depends on the runs, Punisher Max definitely loves killing

In Punisher Born it shows Frank loved war so much like it was a drug he needed....more then his family.

@@willambonney like was said not og run

@@GnosisZX well, Batman originally killed, and used to go around with a gun, the original idea is a thing of the past, is the reinvention of the character, the one that made them the icon we know nowadays the one that matters

I mean that comfort didn't mean shit he was going to be batman one way or the other and Bruce Wayne doesent exist Bruce Wayne isn't Bruce Wayne hes batman this is actually psychopathic devoting ones complete life to an role they made up themselves neglecting who they are got an persona sparked from vengeance and anger

Yeah he would be a criminal if he doesn't have a family

I don't think Spiderman and other innocent people died bc of that monster

​@@GreenEagle-p7zhe never killed any innocent people

@@jacoblikesbacon588 WHAT HE KILLED A CHILD IN VEITNAM WAR HE KILLED MARVEL UNIVERSE YOU JUST KNOW HIM FROM THE LIVE ACTIONS

​@@GreenEagle-p7z😂😂😂😂😊

And what gives him the right to decide between life and death?

But in many cases, it never lasts. Sooner or later many of the so-called “reformed” villains go right back to their criminal ways.

@@johnnykopp7304Something similar can be said for Punisher. He keeps killing and killing, yet the amount of goons and thugs on the streets remains the same, even growing in opposition of Punisher’s efforts. He killed two rapists, there’s five more around the corner. He wipes out a room full of mafia goons, there’s dozens of others in that city block alone. He never makes any actual meaningful change, the level violence and suffering never decreases in his case.

Yeah they change after hitting triple digit body counts😂

@@blechb5317 if anything, the goons and criminals not only come back but get more violent and dangerous in response to frank. crime will alway exsist. its part of human nature.

​@@maxacornThat's what Frank doesn't seem to grasp and Bruce understands well. Violence begets more violence, death begets more death. Punisher's methods are just as much of a predictably vicious cycle as he claims Batman's are.

It was a 90s crossover and joker didn’t run for protection Batman showed up to save the joker let that sink in Batman saved the joker

A middle man is needed here honestly 😅

I get a lot of requests for Warhammer but have never played/watched. Let me do some research on these characters and see about making a video :) Cheers!

That would be interesting. Curze is Batmans and Punishers goal of ending crime and injustice but with the morals and methods of Joker and Jigsaw.

@@khylerbane4523 the thing about Curze is that he is basically Batman but multiplied by 100. Young Konrad is Young bruce, Nostromo is Gotham and the Night Hunter's methos don't even discriminate children

Frank would probably do his damnedest to make sure their family is taken care of before setting up some suicide mission. Granted, he'd probably learn he was framed or something before he followed through.

@@silverblade357 while I get the second half, I’m talking about if he actually does kill an innocent. Be it a stray shot or he pulls the trigger too quickly after seeing movement.

@@jakecarroll9500 Ever seen Punisher War Zone?

I think this happened once where he got tricked into thinking his actions killed an innocent girl He was about to blow his brains out when he noticed the bullet wounds the girl had didn’t match the caliber he had used

if Punisher kills innocents whether it is accidentally or purposely done without caring that innocents died then he'd become just like Aiden Pearce from Watch Dogs 1...

Punisher's is a little bit louder his.

@@danielpeek4245 It’s Thomas Jane voice and Kevin Conroy is Batman/ Bruce Wayne.

Spider man is killer right 😂😂😂 The innocents who he killed by some robot he committed a war crimes

Batman's villains are able to revel in their villainy because they have every confidence that their favorite spec ops furry will get to them before the SWAT Teams!

Because Batman is a stooge of the state. The same state that’s soft on crime and continues to allow regular citizens to be victimized by the same criminals they keep letting off the hook time and time again. The state wants to confiscate your guns, defund the police, and release criminals from jail. That my friend, is a cocktail for disaster.

Not gonna lie he cooked Batman 😂😂

@@retronerds6884I wouldn’t say he cooked Batman. Batman held his own

@@cephas5053 nah he cooked batman Frank answered him everytime even call him out on his bullshit batman danced around but gave no actual answer

Why does Gotham’s system have no death penalty?

I don't blame Batman for not crossing that line himself, but him going out of his way to ensure nobody else is allowed to put down the monsters makes him responsible.

Very true, Batman is also the reason why Gotham never gets better, Not only does he allow psycho criminals like joker or hush to continue to do harm by not killing them, he'll also stop someone for killing a murderer even if it would save hundreds of lives. Punisher has saved more lives killing people than batman has sparing people. @@silverblade357

@@silverblade357(cough) Jason Todd , dick Grayson, Tim drake .

​@@silverblade357Couldn't have said it better myself. Christian Bale's bat makes more sense :"I'm not gonna kill you. But I don't have to save you."

Batman villains must have the biggest balls to continue their bullshit after being beaten to the brink of death by a man in a bat suit. Batman does actually have a history of leaving his villains for dead, he's left KGBeast for dead more than once.

And I was going to love that comic to bits… Until Batman ruined that by saving Joker. And I was so tempted to rip that comic and throw it flames. That was probably the one thing that made me hate Batman forever.

They already did it

@@leklass6657He said that before the video was uploaded

Your looking at it the wrong way, it's still murder yes, but it's justified against people who can't be redeemed

Batman would have condemned the Allies for killing Nazis in WW2 it seems

But actually both of them destroyed their rules in this video 😂 Punisher is killing criminals that's something I agree but killing someone for a red light crime 😂 Isn't a justice

​@@GreenEagle-p7z what do you mean ?. Which comic did punisher kill someone who commit crime as petty as go through a red light. Also batman is a hypocrite if he really wants to uphold justice be like daredevil where he physically fight crime at the same time a lawyer who striving to make sure the corrupt legal system gives the criminal the punishment they deserve. Also judge dredd destroys both of them, both can't argue with dredd because the law itself entrust and give permission to dredd to be the jury, judge and executioner.

@sgnitzlennahv batman isn't hyperitce he had a mental problem if he killed only one he will become psycho and a criminal And even if he doesn't have a mental problem he is a rich and political so killing people will make the city more corrupted And the punisher killed Spiderman

they both are great characters and they both suffer from bad writing

Something tells the met Frank and it was there first and last time meeting him

Imbeciles diluting a public servant’s image, for shame. Shame, I say!

People taking the ideas of someone and twisting it. Is purely on the people. Not the person who created the original idea. That like saying if a group of people decide to beat up people they fancy. It is Batman fault.

My comments keep getting deleted🤣

Remember that time Batman didn't kill the Joker, and the Joker went on to murder scores of innocent people, or that other time Batman didn't kill the Joker, and the Joker went on to murder scores of innocent people? And then there was that time that Batman didn't kill the Joker, and the Joker went on to murder scores of innocent people...

That cause someone changed him in the comics from man out for Justice to psycho who loves war

No he doesn’t “get off on murdering criminals.”

Batman: wait didn't you commit a war crimes in comics 😂

​@@GreenEagle-p7zPunisher :wait didn't you free joker from the death penalty after he committed multiple Genocides In the comics?

@@Randomaccount9470 batman: when did I do that and when I killed him the police chased me and tell me how is your main enemy still alive remember jigsaw never dies isn't that what will happen to me too joker will come back again

when there were drone tanks shooting up gotham? yeah. he did.

the tank was non-lethal

His whole ideology is a flawed reasoning both what happened to both Barbara and Jason prove it

I don’t think so

Tbf at that point even he saw he was being naive and fixed it

Because they can still live and be reformed. Bruce doesn't exactly like permanently crippling people either, but it's still better than killing.

@@twinzzlers Live or not they still won't change just because of that look at the Joker how many times has he gotten beat up by Bruce and still failed to learn his lesson? countless times he never changed or he didn't want to change

@mikaelharding There have been multiple iterations of the Joker who reformed theirselves, even in the Killing Joke comic, he basically admits that he wants to be reformed, but he's afraid Batman would just end up abandoning him.

@@twinzzlers any other iterations?

@@mikaelharding I can probably Google some