Correction: I got it wrong saying this show had mostly original villains, it actually just used lesser known villains from the comics. I was unfamiliar with Nocturna, but I should've recognized Gentleman Ghost. I guess I was just checked out at that point.
''Look, Bats, when I was a doctor, I was always listening to other people's problems. Then I met Mr. J, who listened to me for a change and made everything fun.'' ~ Harley Quinn
In my opinion everything was wrong on Harley; race swapped, personality swapped, different outfit, different background... She was, in effect, another character in completely.
Honestly this made me realizes how much of a team effort BTAS was. Everyone from the voice actors to the music had a part in the success to the show and we were wrong to give Bruce timm more credit than he deserves ( not that he doesn't deserve any).
Also helps the people BTAS are actually talented and actually cared about the characters. It's probably a good thing that Bruce Timm had very little control over BTAS.
@@ClassicHarleyQuinnBTAS was great but some characters were done dirty. Killer Croc was turned to a one dimensional thug instead of being the tragic sympathetic monster he is, but to be honest i may be biased since Killer Croc is my favorite DC villain. Hugo Strange was pretty one dimensional too since they didn’t focus on the whole “wanting to be a better Batman” aspect of his character and he wasn’t particularly cold and methodical like he usually is. Catwoman was not done that well, she was more serious, less carefree and confident than she usually is and funnily enough other shows that came after BTAS did a better job portraying her more faithfully (Batman Brave and the Bold and The Batman 2004) managed to make her more of a fun and energetic character she usually is. A more obscure villain, The Werewolf, was done dirty since in the comic he’s from he was pretty tragic with his lycanthropy and only took the serum that would eventually turn him in a wolfman in the hopes of curing him, but in BTAS he just took the compound to basically cheat at sports since he was a Olympic athlete, so they stripped the tragic element away from him. I like BTAS as much as the next guy but it’s not the perfect Batman adaptation, so it doesn’t need to be placed on a pedestal.
He gets credit for art style, THATS IT, especially after this show. The art direction is great, the writing is hot dog water. Nothing like BTAS nothing like JL or JLU nothing like SAS
I agree, not to mention I can tell Bruce Timm wanted Barbara as the main character, why? Because he simps for her constantly whenever he’s in the writer’s chair. Check out other projects he’s been involved in that involve the character.
I’m real sad about this, because the idea of a Batman series set in the 1940’s is not a doomed concept. Think about the cool 40’s, wartime tech Batman could have used. This could have been an opportunity to tell stories with real old school Batman characters. They could have given a spotlight to villains like Hugo Strange, Tiger Shark, Dr Death and Mad Monk, instead of rehashing Harley Quinn for the hundredth time. My biggest complaint is that you can’t “modernise” the world of Batman and also set the show in the 40’s?! It makes no sense!
@@Omnicrush333I think it would have been a good idea for the writers to stick with characters created before 1950. (So Ivy is out) We could have started the series off with 1940’s era mobster Joker, with an arc leading up to Hugo Strange or Tiger Shark being revealed as the true mastermind.
JJ Abrams has never understood the source material for anything he has done. He doesn’t know Star Trek. He doesn’t know Star Wars. And he certainly doesn’t know Batman.
Matt Reeves's The Batman also didn't understand Batman and also was uber boring. He's as guilty as Jar Jar, but there's too much Reeves shilling lately
@@nrdscottI’m not saying this is the case for trek, but keeping something alive but it fucking sucks isn’t better than just leaving it alone with just the classic shit. Star Wars would 100 percent be better if Disney just left it alone and didn’t keep it going with dogshit and just had the og Lucas films. Same goes for lord of the rings, even more so imo.
Yeah hugo strange in arkham city he know everything about the criminals in the tapes seriously he gets no love hugo strange would make sense as the main villain over harley quinn... Without the joker
Bruce Timm mixed with JJ is a recipe for disaster. Old heads like me remember when Paul Dini, Alan Burnett and Dwayne Mcduffie (RIP) were the shining beacons in DC animation.
@@TheParagonIsDead "what you’re there for doesn’t mean anything, it’s about their vision" Then why would I watch it if what I'm there for doesn't mean anything? You just made my point for me.
See, I’ve got no problem with going back to the Golden Age. The problem is this show isn’t willing to commit to being a 1940s Batman show. Instead of trying to act like it’s the second coming of BTAS, why not try and make the Batman equivalent to the Fleischer Superman cartoons? I’m serious, just make a series of extremely well-animated 2D shorts that capture the essence of Golden Age Batman the same way the Fleischer Superman shorts did. It shouldn’t be that hard (okay, it might be a bit hard given how little money Zaslav wants to give to animated projects). If they did that, they’d have an absolute win on their hand. But they chose JJ and Timm, and they reaped what they sowed.
That would’ve been awesome. I was hoping more for something like that 75th anniversary animated short they did. They should’ve totally pivoted to something more unique and akin to the Fleischer cartoons and fitting the time period. The art style is also way too crisp and clean looking in my opinion. They should’ve gone black and white too imo. Just do anything to differentiate it from the DCAU in terms of art style. Give us something fresh that isn’t trying to bank on our nostalgia for BTAS style-wise.
No one should be surprised, Bruce Timm hasn't made any good DC projects since Dwayne Mcduffie passed away. Dwayne was Bruce's guardrail against his worst instincts and now he's completely off the rails.
Even though I did enjoy this show, I'm so tired of Bruce Tim. Anytime Barbra and Bruce literally talked to each other in the show I was going: "please don't try to push a Barbra/Bruce romance, please don't try to push a Barbra/Bruce romance!"
How is it bad. The stories are solid, the references and cameos are solid, the aesthetic is solid, the characters just a bit underwhelming. Istg, people like you have lost common sense in favor of identity politics
@@MisterSlimee If you have to ask that it means you're not a fan of Batman anyway. Which is why you can be so dismissive about a lot of things, even calling the story good and I think that's ok. If you like the show cool, but for us actual fans... its not scooby doo remake bad, but for a batman show? it's not good.
Bruce Timm left to his own devices (no Paul Dini writing etc) is really bad. (Edit: i should note Darwyn Cook was one of the primary writers along with Paul Dini for the good Bruce Timm stuff, but he pretty much always had good writers connected to his stuff until around 2013ish, and it has been mostly really bad since.)
@@BaithNa yeah actually Dwayne McDuffie is arguably more important than either of those (I was actually thinking of him when I said Darwyn Cooke but both were involved)
I recently met Alan Burnett at a con. He was also responsible for the success for Batman The Animated Series, i.e., the Two-Face episode. He was such a nice guy
''Look, Bats, when I was a doctor, I was always listening to other people's problems. Then I met Mr. J, who listened to me for a change and made everything fun.'' ~ Harley Quinn
I didn't mind that; he was a different character for it and rather then go from good to corrupted he went from corrupt to turning around, maybe why there's a swap on the face.
I didn’t like that concept either. From what I knew of the character his tragedy was his fall from obsession with cleaning up the criminal element to becoming a part of that element.
A way Batman Caped Crusader could have worked with a black Jim Gordon and Barbara Gordon is by not making black Jim Gordon police commissioner. Back in the day there was a comic, Batman: Year One. It dealt with Batman in his first year crimefighting and dealing with a corrupt city government and police force who were in on the urban decay with the mob. A 30s-40s Batman could have run with that and had Batman being effective in cleaning up crime syndicates and mobsters in opposition to the Gotham elite's wishes. Where a black Jim Gordon could have come into this is by maybe having Gordon be a leader of the Gotham dockworkers, or warehouse workers, or general working class group who the Gotham city government dismisses as a nonentity. That could have been an interesting dichotomy. The elite hate Batman as a vigilante for ruining their corrupt graft while the blue collar working class like Batman for taking out the criminals no matter who they were or who they were connected to Downtown. That could have worked for subtly acknowledging 1940s racism while not making it obvious and having black Jim Gordon be like Batman's pulse to keep track of what was going on in the street. That could have worked as a good kind of duality to explore. Rich Bruce Wayne is completely out of his element as a vigilante and who he associates with to be effective as Batman, but learns and evolves and takes on the criminal element from the bottom street level up, following the connections to the bosses in their fitted suits and offices and high society parties. Instead we got this.
Gordon was a cop before chief. He could’ve gotten a promotion that he was deserved despite the color change. Bar. I guess she’s ok. Penguin hard to swallow. Everybody else is so muted. I feel like they’re going to ruin the real villains and characters later on =\
That takes actual creativity though. The series The Batman cartoon was kind of lacking in some of the versions of it's villains, but having Clayface be Bruce's old friend was interesting to me.
Every character was so wasted, there was nothing relatable, sympathetic or nuanced about a SINGLE character in the entire season. It felt like such a gargantuan step down in storytelling from BTAS. I particularly disliked Bruce, Barbara and Harleen. The only people that behaved the way you'd think were Alfred, Jim, Renee and Thorne. Just felt like a huge waste of time.
So your criticism is "They're not the characters I used to know! How dare they try to be creative, instead of regurgitating the same stories!" Seriously? What about the stories, the themes, the cameos and references, the aesthetic, the music. No. Let's just hyperinfalte one problem. Bruce is cold, cause guess what. A character can't progress without having a position to progress from. Barbara is so incredibly inoffensive. Harleen is meh.
I don't know if it's just me, but I say Bruce Timm shouldn't touch the Batman franchise with a ten foot pole without supervision from some writers and directors who actually understand Batman... Lest we forget the horrible Killing Joke adaptation. I still get PTSD flashbacks at the mere mention of it...
@@Drums_of_Liberation Bro, who the f is going to skip the first thirty minutes of a movie that they've never seen before? Also, if you half to skip the first third of a movie, how can that movie be called "fine"?
Renee was an addition to the original series. She didn't replace someone else. That, IMO, is why she worked. They could very easily have added a different Defense Attorney, and left Barbara alone, used Hugo Strange instead of an unrecognizable Harleen. Used a different character than Peguin, perhaps the similar Fish Mooney in an animated form. There are ways that work, but their INTENTION was spite.
Why must all that is art in the 2020s be controlled by people who despise the source material so badly who twist it out of pure spite The world doesn't make sense to me anymore, its like seeing your playful grandpa slowly turn insane and you can't do anything to stop it
It's always been like that with Hollywood because if they don't change it, how can they prove that they're better at storytelling than the original writer? They think of themselves as better than every other form of storytelling so they have to change things to prove their worth.
Except there's usually some scientific reason when our grandpa's go insane, this, this makes absolutely 0 sense, not even from the corporate standpoint cause we all know this crap doesn't make money
@@thomasoveracker1115 Sometimes what mainstream entertainment does seems so nonsensical that I start to think that those theories about this all being part of the corpos farming social credit to store away for a new social order makes more sense. But then I remember other times in history where people in power have been horrendously out of touch and not with some hidden agenda and then the mental merry-go-round of 'why are they doing this??' starts again.
Its refreshing to hear a reviewer that focuses on the writing and characters themselves. Like I do not care what race Gordon is as long as his story line is good and they keep key character points.
As with most modern updates of franchises I loved, I've skipped it. I have no more interest in seeing franchises I loved undermined and warped for ''modern audiences''.
I watched it not realizing how updated for modern audiences it was. I remember seeing the teaser and being so excited because it looked like we were getting a continuation of the animated series or atleast inspired by it. It wasn’t until my friend told me it released already that we decided to watch it. The show had some good aspects like two face learning to be a better man and a Harley that wasn’t always cracking jokes and being annoying. But everything else really brought the show down for me just leaving me disappointed. I expected a traditional Batman story but instead we got Batman for twitter.
Making Batman a side character in his own show is certainly a choice. Despite critics loving it, because of course those shills do, the audience hasn't been as receptive and for good reason. We've had better. People need to stop dropping their standards just because it wasn't as bad as the last. The DCAU gave us great content, and these iterations are not up to that standard. The Harley Quinn show, MAWS, Caped Crusader, etc, not uo to par. Them not being the worst thing in the world doesn't then make them great.
My Adventures with Superman is an excellent show and the first 2 seasons of Harley were great. Instead of naming those shows, you should have said the DCAMU. Other than that, you've got a spot on analysis.
@@BaithNaI wouldn't really call any of those shows excellent as opposed to catering to an audience that has little to standards so because of that they can do/write whatever they want and no one would fully bat an eye
Thank you. I know Harley Quinn has it's fans, but I feel that could be a much better show than it is. And I appreciate calling out MAWS, too. Are we so desperate for Superman to be a hero again that we'll accept him as a total insecure, awkward beta male? It's like Clark Kent is both roles
It's weird how they changed Barbara Gordon into a woman of color and then she proceeds to be redundant or Renee. These attempts to make Barbara Gordon a bigger player in the lore always seem to make her less interesting. Also Harley Quinn should never be Batman's Psychiatrist. They do not have that dynamic. Hugo Strange and Jonathan Crane are clearly better candidates for this role. They just chose Harley Quinn because she's a "pillar" apparently.
Harley as Bruce's psychiatrist could work in the sense of what if it was Bruce she interviews instead of The Joker in like a one off else worlds type of story. Just one of those what if stories.
This is how I feel about James Gordon’s currant situation, who feels like he’s being written as the “black token character”. It sucks, because we have established black characters (Lucius Fox, Crispus Allen etc.).
Harley Quinn being Batman’s psychiatrist has worked good in Harley Quinn the animated series. Mainly in season 3 in where she helps Bruce deal with his trauma. Sure he got arrested during the Season 3 Finale, but Bruce said that maybe prison would be good since it will help him deal with all of his trauma. And besides, he wanted the people of Gotham to know that there are consequences in this city, even for him.
@@samflood5631 I strongly dislike that show, I haven't seen that season and don't intend to at all. What I mean is that she never meets The Joker instead it's Bruce she meets.
I, as a huge BTAS fan, have no interest in this show. Especially it's version of the characters. I will however be checking out the Nocturne episode so thank you for the recommendation!
I have watched the show, it's bad, literally got a headache and now going to sleep it off. That is episode 8 by the way, decent episode and the best out of them all but it's not great.
she also seemed to not know he was an old batman villain which is odd. All the villains in this show (even firebug) are old batman villains from the golden / silver / bronze ages
I don’t remember which episode it was, but there is a scene where Bruce is going at it on a punching bag in his gym, and I couldn’t help but think about a similar scene in the BTAS episode “Appointment in Crime Alley” Getting a little technical here, but the animation of that scene looked super fluid because of those extra in between frames. There was also plenty of squash and stretch in the bag as it was flooding under the weight of Bruce’s punches. The sounds also made each punch feel heavy and it progressively picked up the more we hear Roland Dagget talking on the tv in the background. One could envision Bruce wanting to bop Dagget in the face after hearing him disparage the inner cities of Gotham. Then there this version. It doesn’t help that the design for these characters look flat and dull, but there was no weight to those punching animations. The punches themselves have very little in between frames and they looked choppy and weak. Also the posing for some of these punches looked weird. It’s a long analysis on a short scene, but that scene to me was indicative of how flat and stiff the designs and the animation looks. It looked cheap and dull and the colors looked muddy, devoid of life. There’s a flatness to this show that continues to persist me the more I watch it. I’m on episode 10 and it just feels boring so far.
Yes to all of this! And we can go even further and talk about the audio design (or lack thereof) where it just doesn't sound like characters are in the spaces they are in. Not sure if it's a lack of ambient noise or what, but the soundscape of this show also feels flat
Thank you, I don't know why More people don't pay attention to animation. We can do so much better . But companies don't respect animation (invincible season 2) and people don't know any better. They see imagine. They think it good.
@@robchuk4136 There were definitely some scenes where ambient noise would’ve made sense to be present. When Bruce is in the restaurant with Harvey and it sounds like he’s talking in a megaphone. There’s some VERY light sound in the background but it just didn’t feel realistic. Also, the shading in this show is so lazy too.
I actually love Roxy Rocket... the thing is, no writers seem to get how to make her work. And she doesn't seem to fit with the dark and dreary world of modern DC comics. I'm actually glad that they didn't stick her in this show, they would have sucked all the fun out of her as they did with 'Harley Quinn'.
There's a lot that I can forgive. That doesn't make these things good, just sins that I can at least forgive, but what I can't forgive is that show barely shows us Batman. Seriously, for a vigilante that dawns the costume every night, we rarely get to see Batman doing his thing. He's not even much of a detective. Everyone else does the detective work for him, essentially. If I wanted to watch a Batman show without Batman, I would watch Gotham...not Gotham Knights, that show was hot dog shit. It's called Batman the Caped Crusader, show us Batman damn it!
Only saw the first two episodes and I'm done. I kinda hate it when the "new and original" version of the character just means making them less complex. From what I saw, both Harvey Dent and Bullock were just dickheads, instead of the more nuanced portrayals they got in the past
@@raziel7148 I never said otherwise. The problem is the show's just uninteresting so I don't even care to watch more to see if they eventually bother developing them.
Its pretty bad when the last scene of the show, a one minute brief glimpse of The Joker experimenting with his toxin on victims he kidnapped, is more compelling than the rest of the series combined.
Something I noticed immediately was the animation. Background characters barely move, even the speaking characters in foreground sometimes barely move. I thought it was frozen more than once. It reminds me of really old Space Ghost budget animation. Is this intentional? I dont understand lol
It's like Bruce Timm is trolling us all, which wouldn't surprise me. This "Harley Quinn" version is even further from the character than the new 52 and that changed everything about her lol so for this to be worse says something. I don't understand why they never include her Jewish roots. They could've made any character who was of Asian decent instead of changing Harley. That's the least of the issue with her though lol the whole helping police and dating Montoya makes no sense to me. The character just isn't Harley Quinn. Just a different jester in the Batman universe, using her name. Only similarities. Without her original concept, she's literally everything and nothing lol her character is just anyone whoever wants her to be and its sad. Thank you for this video!
@@matane2465 the Yiddish phrases were a big clue but on top of that, Paul Dini said she was Jewish just like Arleen Sorkin was, and since Harley's made in her image, it was incorporated
I didn't mind Harley too much here, at least she was a rip off Deadpool or crazy hypersexual and trying to sleep with everything, but I think what Harley was in the series would have been better suited for a character like Ivy or Hugo strange. Also hoping for Joker and Harley to get together next season and Bruce Tim to not completely forget her Jewish roots, would be a shame if that's the case.
technically this harley was originally what the creators first had in mind for harley, but dc rejected it because it was to dark. So it’s cool that he was able to bring his original vision in a show.
@@Ivan_950 according to Paul Dini (Harleys true creator) Harley was based on Arleen Sorkins personality, so there was never a plan to make her dark and gritty. That´s nonsense!
As they say. If you can't imagine your version of Batman comforting a dying child, that's not Batman, that's the Punisher in a funny hat. Of they are gonna give Batman a gun. By law the Shadow must appear to sue him for copyright. They also made their Jason stand-in red haired. Which proves to me they didnt actually read his pre-crisis comics. Since he was strawberry blonde. The red hair was a Morrison Crime. And while its nice he got screen time, he had a strong mother and son relationships with Nocturna in Red Skies. So its kinda lame that Kerri is the focus. And they Butchered Natasha/Natalia again! Can they stop destroying my fav pre-crisis villian! Her being a mother to robin was a big part of her storyline and now shes ok with sucking the life out of them? And physio Nightslayer is the voice of reason? Ick, i hate it. We get one good Batman eps and it shits all over my fav vill. There us also some really bed continuity breaks that really pulled me out. By the order of events and movements, Stephanie is laying one the floor in the same spot where Anton is crushed by the shelf. Its messy and lazy
They completely changed Nocturna! She’s also like a teenager in this version, so I can understand her not being a seductress vampire as that would be very odd for a teenaged character. But at this point she seemed completely different
@PunchandJewelee90 she wasnt even a vamp till n52, that was just DC giving her the 'Morrison butchers Talia' treatment. If it wasnt for the names and eps titles shes a completely new character
I recommend checking out the modern audio podcasts such as Batman the Audio Adventures and other DC titles. Surprisingly, these audio dramas are well written and the voices are amazing. It's a shame the same treatment is not given to shows like this.
No disrespect but JJ Abrams is the kind of guy who is living off of his past glories or notoriety. It's obvious from his last few projects that he does not understand the lore of what he's working on. He thinks he can just come in and put his own spin in the canonical world but the problem is that world was filled with passion. You can tell from his Works nowadays that he's just in it for a money grab
The one good episode that you mentioned sounds like a never made episode of Batman the animated series where they planned on making an episode with the character nocturna but couldn’t because of the restrictions involved even with a few compromises.
Thank you for your thoughtful review/analysis of this series, Jester. The "Nocturne" episode was my favorite as well, especially with how creatively the writer adapted Nocturna, which was a villain Bruce Timm planned to adapt in the original DCAU but was unable to because of censorship laws in the '90s. As for the other characters and storylines, I thought this was an interesting reinvention of the Batman mythos and gave us intriguing new versions of the characters, but beyond that...nothing truly engaging. The animation, art style and music are amazing, as to be expected from Warner Bros. Animation and a new Batman series, but this lacks the magic and quality of the '90s Batman series. Admittedly, I tend to elevate Bruce Timm above Paul Dini due to my misconception that animation and art requires more effort than writing, but I have to keep in mind that writing is what truly makes a series work. Anyhow, I'm glad we finally got to see this series and it did give us a colorful '40s noir era reinvention of Batman and his cast of characters, but I don't think it will be remembered as one of the "best" Batman series. Ultimately, it's just a new interpretation of Batman and seeing it like that, it was fun to see this new version of the character.
Batman deserves far better. _FAR_ better than the way he's being currently treated. We're talking about a character with nearly a *century* of literary and artistic pedigree behind him. And how do they handle such lineage...? "DuRR, hOw GaY cAn We MaKe ThIs?!!1?!!" We want the real Batman. The real James Gordon. The real Harley Quinn. The real Barbara Gordon. The real Harvey Dent. Not this. Not whatever slop Caped Crusader is. It's a lot of things... all of it bad... ... and none of it Batman.
I think they are still trying to get out of BTAS's shadow after 2 decades, so it's understandable it's not gonna be the definitive Batman cause they're going all kind of experimental with it. Some work (That Batman) some don't (this show) but I'd rather them stop trying to make everything Batman for once.
Thank you! People exaggerate the diversity in this show. It’s not egregious as they say. There’s even a black corrupt cop. Diversity is not an issue here. What is a problem is how dull everything is. Bruce is my least favorite version of this character. We keep following the GCP rather than Batman. Most of the villains are enthralling. I’m surprised that people who created BTAS made this. Because it has none of the heart. This show isn’t terrible, but it isn’t great. It was just a waste of time, I can hardly remember the episodes despite it coming out recently. I wish I never saw it and invested my time in something else.
@@josephthegamer157 Bruh, I don’t care. There’s like 50 incarnations of these characters being white. Them being a different race every blue moon ain’t gonna kill you.
See my main issue with the show is just pacing. When I was watching it felt weirdly disjointed throughout; there'd be a fantastic fight scene or other genuinely impressive bit, then we'd awkwardly go back to more "civilian" stuff to progress any overarching plots, then back to something actually good. That's really the main thing, some individual pieces are fantastic, but when strung together they're made actively worse. Like, I almost would have preferred this as just a series of shorts, because it's really stylish and dynamic, but lacking in substance.
Comics are a visual medium. You should be able to recognize the characters immediately. It shouldn’t be this thing where you’re guessing who that is. If you can’t recognize the characters, they failed.
I also wanna point out? Bruce Timm without Paul Dini is how you get these intense yet focused stories. They appeal to a few but its not gonna be a show that everyone thinks is great.
It's god awful. It literally gave me a headache. Oh there's nothing Reeves like in here. He was definitely that kid in a group project that does nothing while the others do everything.
Why race-swap the Gordons? Jim and Barbara have always been Caucasian, so going out of their way to brownwash them doesn't seem that great; for some reason, whitewashing characters is always seen as "racist" and "hateful" and the like, but brownwashing them is perfectly fine, if not somehow _beneficial_ - why does this stupid double standard exist? Neither whitewashing or brownwashing should be at all acceptable - and since the goal of brownwashing is DiVeRsiTy points, might I remind DC that they've long since introduced Lucius Fox to Batman's crew? A black man who's effectively Bruce's right-hand man, managing Wayne Industries and his secret Bat-tech? Barbara also being much older than normal, and being a DA instead of a librarian, are also very strange decisions. Additionally, why bring back Harley fucking Quinn YET AGAIN? So sick of this stupid goddamn character; sure, she became popular after Batman: TAS, but does she really need to be in practically EVERYTHING since? Give her a rest, for once, DC! Oh, and I just realised they gender-swapped the Penguin. WHY. So bizarre and stupid; Penguin's always been a short, fat guy with a monocle, and he should have stayed that way; gender-swapping characters, just like race-swapping, is lazy and nonsensical in my mind. Just NO. If this show does the same thing as The Batman by making Barbara a Bat before Dick Grayson (who, from what I can tell, is still quite young)...then this show will have no appeal for me. I just can't stand Batgirl (or Batwoman) as a character, as she's completely redundant and extraneous compared to the classic Dynamic Duo pairing of Batman & Robin; when it comes to fighting and crime-busting, that's always been a man's role, what with fit and healthy guys far outstripping girls in physical strength and stamina (due to natural sexual dimorphism). Batgirl's never had a place here, in my book; her best role is as Oracle, supporting the Duo with info, rather than somehow beating up thugs physically stronger than her.
@@PokeMaster22222 your entire reason for why Batgirl is redundant is literally just sexism lmao Is Wonder Woman redundant too because of Superman? Or Supergirl redundant because of him? Your comment there isn’t even a good reason beyond “ crime fighting should only be a mans job” dude people in the 50s had more progressive thinking than you when it comes to comics lmao
@@chandlerburse Gordon might have been race-swapped before, once or twice, but that still falls into the same discussion anyway - why is race-swapping a character who is *almost always* white into being brown ever acceptable, when vice-versa never is? He, and his daughter, have been white in almost every appearance, and are most well-known as Caucasian characters. Gordon, and Barbara, were Caucasian in Batman: TAS, in most Batman movies, in Batman: Arkham, and most comics. Suddenly making them brown, for no reason aside from "Diversity", is shallow, unnecessary, and inherently racist. Also, Lucius Fox has appeared before, BTW, making a notable appearance in the Batman: Arkham games, as well as the 2014-2019 Gotham TV show, and the Batman: The Enemy Within game made by Telltale Games. Sure, he's not as widely used as the Gordons, but he's still around. Next, the part about Batgirl? Yeah, that's solely my opinion, though it's not necessarily "sexist" as it is true in reality - think for a moment; why are sports still sex-segregated? Because the physical baselines and standards are different between the two sexes. Adult men, particularly those used to exercise and fitness, do indeed have an advantage over women, and especially teenaged girls (like Batgirl is usually portrayed as). So it's quite unbelievable, in my mind, that Batgirl could outfight various thugs and stuff. Granted, this IS fiction, but still breaks the suspension of disbelief for me. Also, I mentioned I found Barbara's alternate persona as Oracle to be quite inspired, as it provided her a way to still support her teammates even from a distance, even whilst disabled - making her actually unique and distinct from the rest of the Batfamily. As for your inane question "is Wonder Woman redundant because of Superman?" and the like? While they do share some similar powers - super strength, flight, super durability - they're not alike in other ways; Wonder Woman is, depending on the writer, more willing to kill than Clark is, and she also has her Lasso of Truth. Clark, meanwhile, is less willing to kill and has additional powers, like heat vision, freeze breath, X-ray vision, and so on. They're more different than Batman/Batgirl is, as the two Bats usually share the same end-goals and ways to take down enemies (as Barbara uses the same tech as Bruce, and she's not nearly as willing to kill as Jason). Indeed, the Robins are usually far more interesting than Batgirl is, as they each have their own personalities and ways of crimefighting - Jason Todd, especially after becoming Red Hood, is open to killing enemies; Dick Grayson becomes Nightwing, an independent crime-fighter, and Tim Drake, who later joins the Teen Titans.
Thank you for commenting on diversity not being responsible for a bad script. The writing is the make or break of a show, not the representation. I couldn’t get through the first five minutes and I’m glad I didn’t continue 😭 I hated how they made Two Face a jerk before the transformation, completely ruins what made him a good character (that he WAS good in the beginning)
It seems like in this day and age, it's not just about selfishly taking over everything and making it all for only one or two people to enjoy anymore. It's about the active avoidance of research and knowledge wherever possible. For me, research is the most difficult, yes, but also the most enjoyable part of writing anything. Research doesn't have to be treated like a leper colony and cast out at the door. It needs to be proven that writers can do research and make the process fun. Making something fun is one of the first steps to eliminating the fear of it.
My biggest problem with the show was this question that was on my mind throughout the whole thing; “What’s the point of Twoface if Harvey Dent is already a bad guy?” Edit: Also the Nocturne episode was pretty much the only one I liked, it was eerie and well done. She gave me the creeps!
@@applejones1697also man I was excited to finally see some obscure villains for a change, but this show wasted every opportunity! My particular favorite obscure villain is Onomatopoeia and I had hoped they’d do something interesting with him, but nah he’s just some thug.
@@questworldiangreenknight7455 He is not a bad guy What he is is susceptible To his vanity He wants to save Gotham As always But his vanity makes him Week to manipulation He is only the bad guy Only if you believe that Barbara is The good guy and she is not The end of episode seven Shows you exactly who this Barbara is
@@user-gj9uq3kb7y okay but the problem is that the show clearly wants us to side with Barbara, and the writers purposely made Harvey a sleazy guy. I’m not against Harvey being susceptible but it needs to have good writing in order for that to work. They made this exact mistake in that other show Beware The Batman.
All point of modern Harley Quinn is "she is not with Joker anymore, and you WILL understand that (even if she still wear clown suit, still villain and dont want to become normal person, dont even try to.)"
I think it would have been alright to just have Harley be a phyciatrist, and instead have someone like Hugo Strange for an early villain. Hugo would certainly fit the 40s aesthetic.
Being honest I hated that they portrayed Bruce as a narcissistic abuser of Alfred who talks to him only in the batman voice. How could that happen WHEN ALFRED RAISED HIM and GAVE HIM HIS CODE? There is not one piece of Batman medium where Bruce has EVER been disrespectful or dehumanized because he knows Alfred is the only family he has. As a matter of fact - there have been instances where Alfred has DISCIPLINED adult Bruce for being rude to guests or even members of the Bat family so seeing him be outright disrespectful and snippy with Alfred REALLY comes off as out of pocket and unwarranted My guess is the show does not want to portray any rich white men as decent human beings
bruce timm: guy who is terrible at writing dc stuff without paul dini's writing and forces his fetishes into EVERYTHING jj abrams: a guy who has no idea how to direct movies matt reeves: somebody who made a walmart version of batman begins and made the weakest batman movie (yeah whatever, fight me, the batman sucked) put all 3 together, and you get caped crusader.
I thought the show was a 3/10. Batman felt like a side character to Renee and Barbara. I don't understand why they set this in the 1940s they didn't play with that. Harley Quinn and Catwoman were the worst things here, in my opinion. Hamish did a good job with Batman/Bruce Wayne. The Supernatural aspect worked here like I thought it would as Batman and Supernatural mysteries are made for each other. It allows him to be at his finest as a warrior and a super genius polymathic intellectual while keeping him close to his roots as the world's greatest detective. With that being said I have been very disappointed with Matt Reeves Batman in both animation and Live-action.
Personally, I think Batman: Arkham Origins has a better depiction of a year-two Batman becoming more open to Alfred and learning to work with allies instead of doing everything on his own.
I hope everyone takes this opportunity to realize Matt Reeves was also involved in this and that a lot of his subtle plot points and themes in The Batman don't do the character justice.
@@greygorygaming this comment comes off as trying to say “ i didnt like the batman and since reeves worked on this and everyone here hates it, i want everyone to hate the batman too because i didn’t like it” Just because this is bad doesn’t mean that was
@@chandlerburse In trying to depict Bruce Wayne as the mask and Batman as some dangerous force of nature who must undergo an internal transformtion, Reeves tackles very similar themes to this show. Read into it as that.
Thanks for the video, love your take on the series... I expected this woke junk to get your dander up, and rightfully so... It is SO obvious why WB decided to not release this themselves, and sold it to Amazon... I honestly do not mind race swapping when a character is not really tied to its race... If it had been a race swapped Batman, then I would definitely be upset... The sex swapping, if it's done right, is ok sometimes as well... Such as the gender swap of Starbuck in Battlestar Galactica, which worked fine... But the gender swap of Penguin is SO over the top and ridiculous in how the character is portrayed, because it in no way feels like Penguin, just in a different body... It was such a purposeful slap in the face to all Batman comics fans, and was portrayed so super unrealistic... The audience behaving like she (lol) is so sexy and hot and talented... When she looks like a giant chisel faced man, with super big chest bumps... SO farfetched and unbelievable...The Voice does not even match the visuals of the character AT ALL... Don't even get me started on how super dumb the story treats the character... Big warning to parents out there, as this is not a child friendly series... It has sexual orientations and actions, a parent may or may not want their child exposed to... The race swapping and uglification done to some of the key female characters/villains is so in your face... This show checks off practically every DEI checkbox... On top of that, they changed those characters personality and mannerisms almost entirely... Also, I TOTALLY agree with what JesterBell is saying about Batman... It almost feels like he is a barely heroic side character in his own series... The girl bosses are up front and center, at least in some episodes... Might as well call this show Batman? - Woke Crusader... The story telling is so bad, the dialogue is sort of ok sometimes, but the personalities of most characters are boring, making some look like complete morons... Why do people feel that they need disassemble good IP's and then piecemeal it back together in a different way just because they can... This is someone's alternate reality fanfiction version of Batman...
I feel it definitely had a lot of dead spots but, I say the show has many means for improvement. I also watched My Adventures with Superman Season 2 and I said the same thing about Season 1 and Season 2 was so much better. So, if this Batman show is going to have a season 2 I hope they learn from their mistakes. Yes and I agree with you on the DEI. It hits you right in the face but, it really doesn't affect the show in any way. It's the writing and characters themselves that tear it down.
I liked that Barbara cuffed herself to a person with a damaged psyche that was more than ok with hurting anyone that even looked at him negatively. She saw how quickly Harvey can snap at anyone and she even saw him stomping a cops face off RIGHT in front of her and she still thought it was a good idea to stay next to him at all times. She definitely had plot armor especially if this Two-Face was acting dangerously without using the coin.
Honestly it just sounds like people r mad we aren’t getting BTAS again cos I rlly don’t understand the hate ,it’s a good show because it’s different and I think it rlly is a good portrayal of Batman Edit: tbf to the criticism I didn’t like female penguin tho
Good portrayal of batman when he is not main character in his fuccking show, pathetic show, pathetic batman don't achieve anything, saved by Barbara, Kerry Kelly or anything else
I agree with some of your statements but I mostly enjoyed the series. Yeah, Nocturna was the closest in spirit to Batman TAS but I am ok with the series being its own thing. Its not as good as TAS but it has some differences that makes it interesting, mostly having a little more of a continuity between episodes. And I dont mind when they focus more on secondary characters. I think my favorite episode was Moving Target, which was mostly about the Gotham Police Department but it had a decent amount of Batman , and I felt Onomatopeia was very entertaining even when they didnt give him much of a background.
I just wanted to say, like you stated in the video, at the very least they didn't try to frame this as a faithful continuation that honors the '90s series, like X-Men "97". That makes the changes somewhat more excusable, because it's not tied to any existing lore and inhabits its own continuity.
I'm kinda of questioning how you were bored with the series personally as I thought it was a binge worthy series and I had a good time curious for more when it was done. I think the series understands 'Batman'; however I will agree it does not hit a lot of the high points of the Batman TAS. I'll agree Batman as a character was not really focused on and it's a shame they have a good excuse for HOW we could have dove into him better with his therapy sessions. We get hints here and there I like such as Bruce staring at his mother's pearls knowing it's the same set that nearly got stolen and why he gets so offended when someone talks about his mother for being 'dumb enough to wander into crime alley with those'. But yeah...Batman's moments are kinda limited. Maybe there's an excuse they want to dive into it more down the line but it would have been nice to develop Batman more. The best we get is he focuses on helping children, legit concern over a possessed Alfred, and such. I'm under the impression this is early years Batman he doesn't have a relationship with Jim Gordon yet, he's still struggling with his negative emotions by just refusing to talk about them, I don't think most of these characters can hope to outplay other versions of them (this Catwoman is no where near as motivated as TAS Catwoman, Basil Carlo had promise but he's not as deep as Matthew Haggen Clayface of BTAS, and yeah this Two-Face has nothing on BTAS' version either.) I do legit like Firebug and actually think he did better than BtNA did with Firefly just the fact they show him as this awkward prisoner just trying to keep his head down only to be drawn back into arson because Two corrupt cops push him and silence him so the truth can't be leaked. And damn his 'vision' of a burning Gotham which doesn't seem bothered with being on fire while he SMILES at the idea? Legit good first impression for a kinda forgotten Batman character. Would have been nice if Batman got to play off him or even a doubtful Harvey Bullock or Barbara though. I like the idea they try to use with Harley...but her jester side is a bit confusing. The best I get is the fact her is her first 'patient' is dressed as a clown meaning MAYBE he's the first to push her down this path? But the problem is ultimately we aren't being given enough details in a character sense. Charming as Harleen the physiatrist is she doesn't get to do much with Bruce, Batman, Renee, or Barbara. Maybe if Harley's episode was the last in the season and was stretched out better to bounce her off other characters, it could have worked? Obviously, she's not beating BTAS Harley unless a future season does more. I think it's a little silly to claim this does not understand Harley cause that kind of thinking means Mr. Freeze is bad because he's not just 'a guy in a freeze suit'. Sometimes characters get reworked and reexplored like how Harley is the ring leader in the TellTale games and that's a version I've come to enjoy as a more unique take on Harley. It just tried a different idea...and I like it better than say the Arkham games where she's just comedy relief and poorly explored. I'm not a fan of pulling villains from other DC properties into Batman's universe honestly (Gentleman Ghost and Onomatopoeia) but I liked both of them in this series and hey at least we get a backstory for Gentleman Ghost when a lot of the idea characters didn't get much explanation. Nocturna is probably the best explored villain besides Harvey as Two-Face and her bonus is she got most of her exploration in one episode though it doesn't do as well as BtAS did at many character dives; and maybe it's because of the distraction that the episode was more 'Look! Robin cameos!'. Would have been nice if we got maybe a moment where Killer Croc went into details on Nocturna to paint more of her past but eeeh. I think there's a lot of potential with this series...but I do think there's a lot of flaws and if it wants to live up to BtAS it's going to have to work on its episode to episode writing as less curious cases that are fun and entertaining and remembering the reason people loved that original character is because the characters were always so interesting and relatable as you can understand why they turn to crime and how Batman interacts with them. I think the show understands Batman....just unfortunately, it's mostly the brooding dark detective part of him and less his truly compassionate side (that part we only get in small points). Still a decent attempt but the second season needs to take more notes from BtAS.
The characters were bland. The story is slow. There’s a lack of personality for a majority of characters. And Batman isn’t around as much as he should be for his own show. I can see why people would find it boring.
