Batman's No Kill Rule is Mentally Retarded - A Rant 

I read that one. If I remember correctly, Jigsaw went to Gotham and ended up working with Joker. And I remember the look on Jokers face when he realized Punisher wasn't Batman and he was about to die 🤣

Seriously the worst moment in Batman history. I remember reading that and being like.. he told the Joker to RUN?! WTFFFFF

​@@jbellflower83 I liked it because it referenced the previous encounter Frank had with Azbat.

​@@OverBenthousandI wonder how many people the Joker killed whilst fleeing... I also wonder how many people Frank would have killed if he was put in Arkham. That choice literally would cause the most collateral damage. Way to go Batman

Would love to see a punisher like character step into the cowl for a disabled Wayne. Address the no kill rule by showing that as u kill 5 bad guys, 15 of their friends and family will rise to seek vengeance. The populace will accept policing and justice but not wonton vigilantism.

Jason says it better than I could: "I'm not talking about killing Penguin or Dent or Scarecrow! I'm talking about him! Just him."

@@damnedlegionaire Only fault with that story is that he then tries to shoot bats instead of Joker, like... you know, he said he would.

"I thought you said you didn't kill" "Ya, it's like, my one rule" "Well you just killed that guy" "When I fight my foe they often get tired and have to take a nap afterwards because I'm so good"

The No-Kill rule doesn’t even make sense on the other villains. Every villain has become Joker-lite.

the joker didn't kill jason todd, the readers did, they voted for it.

Just one movie

@@l33t007 He killed Ra’s Daughter in Dark Knight Rises, and killed Two-Face in the Dark Knight, and didn’t mind that Selina killed Bane.

I don't hold Two-Face's death against Bats, since Two-Face was psycho enough to shoot a kid and Batman's priority was saving the kid even if it meant Two-Face fell to his death. And as for Talia, that was more Bats disabling the truck with the bomb they were using to blow up Gotham leading to Talia suffering for mortal wounds as a result of the truck being disabled. And even though Bats was focused on saving Gotham, I'm pretty sure he would've been annoyed with Selina blasting Bane if they didn't have higher priorities (Selina poked fun at Bats telling her earlier not to kill other criminals). ​@@AdrianFahrenheitTepes

@@mikeyua7 He still killed Two Face. He did have good reason to do what he did by pushing him off the building, even though the coin landed good side up. He didn’t know how it would turn out. I don’t mind the fact he killed some people in the Nolan Batman movies given that it was the exception rather than the rule. To be fair when he did kill, he was in a desperate or an exhausted condition

For all of the criticisms that the Bale movies receive, the descaling of the "no kill rule" plays into the urgency of scenarios & emphasizes the sacrifices made in pursuit of one's justice.

Boxers have died in the ring on numerous occasions. A hyper trained roid head like Bruce decked out in the finest tactical gear money can create smashing dudes on hard concrete would have killed at least dozens of dirt bags. Combat sports have a referee for a reason.

@@ProjectLDV The most dangerous part is the fall, and combat sports have a relatively soft, unobstructed place to fall. Falling on whatever hard surface exists out in the world is horrifying.

Any blunt force impact to the head, even a relatively small one, can potentially kill somebody. People die from falling off their beds.

Subdural hematomas, Batman has inflicted a lot of those. Think of all the comas

The Joker in the 89 Batman movie died by a Batman tied gargoyle from 50 stories up

Yep. More frank castle.

"If you kill a murderer, the number of murderers in the world doesn't change." "But what if you kill _two_ murderers?"

Yeah, I there are places where I think it works well, and places it doesn't... The Lone Ranger using silver bullets to remind himself of the value of human life? Sure, it works somehow. Spiderman prankishly trapping criminals like flies for confused police to find in a fictional world where the villains are slightly goofy? Sure, it works somehow. Superman trapping criminals just because he's bulletproof and can afford to show more restraint than an ordinary mortal? Yeah, it works somehow. Doctor Who, before the show went full-steam "woke", letting the Master live because they were close as children and human beings are, after all, more like pets in the hands of a tormented, mentally ill brother who can't resist pulling wings off of flies? It's nightmarish when you really look at it, but it makes a sort of alien sense. Or, letting daleks and such live because life is precious and the Doctor doesn't believe he has the right to commit genocide, even with a race of cyborgs genetically engineered to be omnicidal maniacs, and because he can respect their genius on a certain level? Again, nightmarish, but it makes a sort of alien sense. There's the space-western anime "Tri-Gun", where the superhero Vash is basically an alien child in an adult body who genuinely believes in an idealistic human philosophy that holds all life to be too precious to waste, until far past the point where it should have been obvious to any human being that the villains aren't simply beyond redemption in a world that would be better off without them, but actually take advantage of Vash's weakness to cause far more pain and suffering than they ever would have if he'd simply killed them years ago, with that conflict between the value of life versus the cost of evil becoming a big part of the final chapters of the story, and those moments where Vash is forced to resort to deadly force being key moments of character development that were carefully built up overthe course of the story: it works somehow. Or, the space-western "Firefly", where the heroes are a band of tarnished idealists forced to resort to piracy to survive, who sometimes need to make some difficult choices, but try to avoid violence in a morally grey universe where they understand that things aren't very clear-cut: sometimes, it's heart-warming when the characters choose to do the right thing even when it costs them a little, and spare lives and walk away mostly clean when it would be easier to just go full criminal, but we also see the heroes face moments where some of the villains they allowed to live return later in situations where they've only caused worse problems, and those cynical times when the heroes actually surprise the audience by doing the pragmatic thing and killing off obvious villains, without chewing on any angst first, become that much more refreshing.: even in a morally grey universe, nobody is going to miss a sadistic monster - "See, THAT is why you don't mess around, and just control-alt-delete the clown!" And, it works somehow. ...and so on. Including, as you say, with some of the campier versions of Batman while the criminals are a little less depraved and more campy, and Batman a little less human and limited in what he can do to stop them. It's some combination of those points where the storylines get darker-and-grittier, the villains get more dangerous, the stakes get higher than petty crime capers, the heroes and heroic idealism get a little less clean-cut and simplistic, that the story needs to "grow a beard" and start taking the violence a little more seriously, as something that has consequences, whether the heroes are resorting to it, or refusing to resort to it while villains cause far more grief with violence of their own than the heroes ever would have with a more judicious and sober use of necessary force. Batman fell (back) into darker-and-edgier, morally grey territory, but somehow never left the lighter-and-fluffier "no-kill"imperative in place even after it should have been clear to any sane hero that this cynical world is not the sort of place that you pull your punches to leave violent criminal masterminds free to slaughter innocent people, so that you can pat yourself on the back for your heroic moralism: you're NOT making the world a better place by letting mass murderers and psychopathic sadists loose to prey freely on helpless victims in a world where you are just one lone hero in a silly costume against an army of free-range criminals, you can't be everywhere at once, the police are utterly ineffective, the government is corrupt and more likely to arrest you for trying to protect the public than they are to arrest villains for threatening the public, and the cost of your failure to act decisively against the villains can be counted in dozens, hundreds, or thousands of human lives.... Apparently the writers do occasionally make token nods at the fact that Batman must surely recognize the fact that his failure to stop the villains permanently is only wasting human life, but they never seem to follow through with it, or to use it as a plot device for a major character development story arc, or anything like that! The result is kind of broken, and they either need to back off the dark-and-gritty cynicism and roll with the campy take on things instead, or fully break with the campy take and embrace the darkness and grit with a superhero who has and knows his limitations, and knows when to set aside his well-meaning ideals and seriously start looking down the barrel into the villain's eyes and asking, "Do you feel lucky, punk? Well, do you?"

*Points to Jason Todd* yeah

@@pietrayday9915 7th like, also dang that was long!

💀💀💀

Are you serious? Dude that’s insane!

@thomasweeden2683 Joker: Last Laugh, by Chuck Dixon and Scott Beatty if you want confirmation

@@shrikebutcherbird If Jason Todd found out about that, I think he would've shot the Joker instantly in the Red Hood storyline.

It's honestly like Batman know's that his universe will end once the joker dies because he knows the writers are so trash that they can't come up with a new compelling villain or story.

That was Frank Miller batman

Great line, and something Batman should continually struggle with. His obsessive need to rehabilitate vs the realistic consequences of that need in practice.

​​​​@@TrimondiusAre you actually trying to argue that the utterly insane mass murderer finding new and inventive ways to raze gotham to the ground is less concerning than a rich man who would kill that mass murderer? I'd tell you to get a grip, but I don't think you've even seen reality before. For God's sake, an oddly dressed vigilante killing criminals is less concerning than that same vigilante believing that him beating every mugger in town to sleep evey night isn't actually killing anyone.

@Trimondius Joker kills innocents, Batman would only kill others as bad as the Joker, so yeah he would be a lot better. This could not possibly be simpler for you to understand, yet somehow you don't.

@Trimondius Also, considering Gotham's judicial system seems to be completely worthless when it comes to actually punishing criminals, why not let Batman do it at that point? I'd let a billionaire do all the work if it means some insane clown won't butcher my whole family.

I think you're spot on about the "No-kill" rule. It really works only when stakes aren't as high. When Catwoman tries to steal a diamond, Batman hog-tying her and handing her over the cops is fine. On the other hand, when Joker holds a group of kids hostage there's no reason for kid gloves. The fact that comics got darker over time but Batman remains obstinate to this rule is all the more ridiculous.

And there it is or at least close enough for rock and roll.

Even in Batman TAS (and other DCAU shows), there are tons of vilains who clearly deserve to be killed. Ra's is still a terrorist who operates on an international level and lead a group named the society of shadows (assassins, mercenaries...). Killer Croc... well his name is still Killer Croc so it speaks for itself. You have mob bosses who deal drugs to teenagers and kill people. Even more tragic vilains like Two Face or Freeze kill some people. And the Joker? Oh God... even in this "kid show" he's still a mass murderer.

​​@@-Zakhiel-Killer Croc and Poison Ivy are both cannibalistic monsters they aren't even human beings.

Yeah man, aside from Mr. Freeze (His freeze ray doesnt kill people, but he was still attempting murder on a guy that also attempted to murder him and his wife) the Arkham rouges gallery are gleeful mass murderers, sadistic serial killers, immoral hitmen, or genocidal megalomaniacs. Batman's no kill rule is wack in that verse.

Against normal humans like mobsters, if they don't take out the Joker by surprise on the first attempt, they're probably not gonna live for very long afterward. If they DO kill him on the first try, then they've just saved everyone in Gotham, though.

The dark knight?

@@PureWaterGuy I was wondering what happened with Gamble’s bounty, and I believe it’s been called off.

Batman will break his back trying to save Joker. He did the same when every crook was gunning for two face in batman rebirth.

Hell even Yugi "mind crushes" his opponents and they are just playing a children's card game

Lol so you never watched either of those series beyond the first episode

​@@charlesman8722I've seen most of both and I'm curious about how you think he's wrong? By end of season nearly every single villain has been smote and the only reason the baddies live as long as they do is because the heroes never know where they are hiding.

@@daviddiggens8841 Season 0 Yugi was more hardcore. Especially when Shadow Realm just meant Hell.

​@@chilomine839sending your enemies to de facto hell over a children's card game is pretty badass I must say

A deranged policeman shot him in the face and there was a bounty on his head with a She-Bane after him. Jason Todd had him tied, dosed up in gasoline and even Joker himself saying: "Well?". So many times he should have died, but didn't. He just has the same plot armor than Batman himself. I just wish they didn't spread the credibility of it so thin.

Comic books...

Gotham is based on NYC and Chicago, so the 2A is in the same place as it is in those cities.

Well, Gotham City is located in New Jersey.

It is the story that should be addressed... That said, there is a comic about a man who reveres Batman so much that his dream is to kill Batman by shooting him, then living a good life that ends with him going to heaven... I think that one was Grant Morrison's.

That's not how mental health works. Sometimes it's a life long struggle

@@neilstone3656 If you're too crazy to be around people, and too smart to be contained in an asylum, there's not all that many options left.

​@@neilstone3656 You can't struggle if you don't even try.

​@@neilstone3656Mental health is a scam.

@@radiokunio3738 tbf from what we know of arkham its not exactly the best place for treatment either

yes

Who is innocent?

@@batman369able definitely not the Joker.

@@batman369able People who don't commit crimes.

​@@batman369ablethe innocent people of Gotham. Thats who.

Yeah, Gotham's justice system is awful.

@@j.k.4479 da alvin bragg

He's caused so much death and destruction that he could be considered a force of nature. I'm shocked no nurse "got his meds wrong" and no orderlies "accidentally" lost control of his pallet truck on any of his visits.

Another question: why aren't there mass migrations of civilians out of Gotham? Villains on the loose every night and folks still decide to live there?

that insanity plea is carying

Goku kills only when the villain can't be contained (Cell, Buu)

​@@grandcanyon-d4dSo Goku would kill the Joker since he can't be contained in Arkham?

@@Alex_Fahey he most likely would put him in a place he won't hurt anyone

​@@grandcanyon-d4d Not true at all. He's more than glad to kill anyone who poses a threat. At least that's how it used to be. Back in the original Dragon Ball, you'd see Goku kill guys left and right. 2 were red ribbon army soldiers who tried to reap Bulma (they could've been easily contained, but hey the better call really was to just kill those s.o.b's) , blew up the helicopters they were riding in, instant death. Afterwards, the body count kept stacking. Exploding vehicles with men still in them, likely instantaneous death from getting their heads thrown at boulders/walls (Goku storming the red ribbon army facilities, and their main base), finishing off General Black while he was still in his robot suit, explosion. Yeah a lot of the deaths were because of explosions but hey, they were always because Goku did so with intent. The moment Krillin died after the tournament had just finished, Goku was out for blood. He didn't care if whomever could "easily be contained", they killed his friend. When Goku learned that it was under orders, he didn't stop at just killing off tambourine, he was out to kill the guy who gave the orders too. No, prior to Super, and especially prior to Z, Goku had no issues with killing anyone who posed a threat to himself or his friends. It's only around the Frieza Saga is when we see this excuse to keep villains alive (the ginyus, who had just beaten his son to near death), that was already going on Batman levels of ridiculous bs, just to say "oh yeah he's different cause he shows mercy to his enemies but fights against his Saiyan blood". That was just Toriyama (no disrespect to him, just criticizing here), making up an excuse to tell the story he was trying to do. The same with letting Vegeta escape "I wanna fight him again cause muh Saiyan genes", Kid Goku would've finished him off without hesitation, the ginyus included. (prior to this he convincingly killed mercenary Tao despite himself being the stronger fighter, because Tao already killed someone on screen)

@@grandcanyon-d4dAny sane mind would give the joker the death penalty, that’s the point of this video. The no kill rule is insane.

"Okay. Kill twelve then get back to me" Red Hood

Wolverine : I may be at Marvel : But I terminated 25,000 murderers off the face of planet Earth

​@@AdrianFahrenheitTepes At least before Disney.

He never said that

There's a difference between murder and exacting justice.

lol

To be fair batman does wear bullet proof clothing.

This starts becoming a lot more real when you see the mindset at work in Uvalde.

You would think some civilians would have shot him down by now or the entire criminal underworld would be super pissed off and chase him down like a dog.

To be fair. Joker is very, very intelligent. He was pretty much always like 5 steps ahead of the cops. As unrealistic as that is, that's the case.

THANK YOU, even Goku knew Frieza , buu, and cell needed to die!

Honestly I think Goku's realization came about _because_ of Freeza, since Goku gave him a chance to flee Namek but Freeze used that gifted energy to attack Goku…

@@Amesang maybe but goku did literally lodge his entire body through demon king picollo to stop him and kill him

Majin buu got reasoned with

If the Joker existed in reality, someone would have ventilated him years ago.

And that's the thing, Batman has resolved that he wouldn't act as judge, jury and executioner, that's the job of the authorities, and to be fair, he's delivered some of the most dangerous criminals in Gotham to the police on a silver plate hundreds of times, it's not his fault that they're so incompetent and/or corrupt that they let them get away each time. The fact that even with Batman being there, these criminals keep thriving in a place like Gotham shows that they're a symptom to a much bigger, much deeper problem with that city in particular that simply starting killing criminals won't solve. I remember hearing this theory that the reason characters like Joker, Two-Face, The Penguin etc. became such prominent criminal bosses was because they took advantage of the power vacuum left after Batman took all the prior most prominent mafia bosses of Gotham to jail, and the fact that they themselves haven't been replaced by the next sociopath waiting in line yet hints that they're aware of this dynamic and have learned to game it so they can stay where they are.

Comic book governments? Sure, it couldn't possibly happen in real life 🤭

​​@@inendlesspain4724 With all due respect that's either a cope or a misunderstanding. How can Batman with all of his detective thinking, analytical deductions, and his IQ in general haven't noticed where the problem is if the villains he apprehends and brings to Gotham can escape regularly? Even a better argument is: if he realized that the Gotham cops aren't able to apprehend criminals for whatever reason and decided to be a vigilante and share their responsibility in a different way, then why wouldn't he apply the same logic to the ineffective and almost corrupt judicial system and share some of their responsibilities as well? Even if Gotham doesn't have a death sentence for it's murderous and legally sane criminals, you would think some parts of the constitutional laws would have been changed to accommodate that because of people like most of Batman's villains but somehow that isn't the case here ... .

@@dianabarnett6886 tbf only in a free country like America

Yes. Murder entails unjustified killing of an innocent. War is a tricky one though. You can argue that two soldiers trying to kill each other on a battlefield are both innocent(or guilty depending on how you look at it), because both could be great people outside of that war. But there is kind of an understanding of war as impersonal to a degree. One is simply fighting for his country, and the other is fighting for his.

And Bats has a war on crime.

Granted, there was a reason Old Testament Israel employed execution by stoning. Given that Yahweh made man in Hus image, human life was made sacred by dint of the fact that taking a human life became an inherently blasphemous act (hence the commandment, "thou shalt not *_murder)._* Even so, even ignoring scenarios like warfare or self-defense, there were certain crimes which were of sufficient gravity that execution was deemed necessary by law. Stoning was a _communal_ repudiation of the criminals' actions that spread out the aforementioned moral burden of taking said criminals' lives. The culture/law deemed it necessary, but this way, everyone's hands were dirtied through this shared effort of removing a social menace.

The Jews even had 2 different words for sanctioned killing (Ha-rog) and sinful killing (Ratsach - pronounce it Rat-sock and you'll be close)

@@Tehz1359 Thats the line Batman won't cross. He won't set himself up as judge of others. He just beats them into submission and dumps them on the courts.

This is why I think BTAS works better than most of the comics. The fact that the villains aren't killing people makes the No-Kill Rule work better. In BTAS, pretty much every "super"villain except the Joker is a social outcast lashing out at society in some way, and could plausibly be reformed (most every other villain is a corrupt businessman or bona fide mobster). Notably, when they wanted to make an episode criticising excessively harsh justice with the new villain Lockup, they specifically had him mistreat the more sympathetic villains like Ventriloquist, Harley Quinn, and the Scarecrow, rather than the Joker (because he would have deserved it).

@@CantusTropus Well put. This is exactly what I mean. 😁 Not every single criminal has to be a murderer. Besides, the villains are _way more interesting_ when their motives go beyond and/or exclude "murder everybody". There's so much story variety to get out of it. For example, I always prefer Riddler as a smug, eccentric blackmailer than a Jigsaw-like killer with insane death traps. His arrogance was what made him leave clues, not a weird compulsion. That and characters to compare and contrast against Batman's methods, e.g. Lock-Up, Hugo Strange, Ra's Al-Ghul or (in some cases) Red Hood, is a great idea. When confronted with the total monsters, that's a great basis for a story.

I mean, I’d say Riddler’s arrogance and his compulsions to leave clues are more or less intertwined. He wants everyone to know he’s the smartest and that he can run intellectual rings around them, to the point he simply can’t not leave clues to try and prove his pursuers can’t beat him in a battle of wits.

@@a_fine_edition2746 Good point. The _need_ for the smug satisfaction is key to what makes him fun. I suppose what I meant was that he shouldn't be defined by just his madness. Leaves him feeling a little empty in some versions. *coughTheBatmancough*

I fed up of superhéroes, mages and other types of humans with powers being used as props for political lectures about racism and slavery being hammered on my skull non stop.

If that's a reason Western comics are dying, it's a miniscule one. The bigger problem is the corruption and toxicity of the industry at large.

@@DoomRulz that's why I said it's one issue. The ridiculous prices and horrible writing and artwork definitely drove sales into the ground. Multiple events from one end of the year to another also doesn't help.

Cyclops came around eventually, leading to the events of Avengers Vs X-Men.

I feel you, man.

Especially Jim Gordon. You could argue that Red Hood is a vigilante so him taking the law into his own hands would be a no-no (which is ironic because Batman is doing the same FUCKING THING) but Jim Gordon has a license to kill and, given reasonable cause, would be able to do so to the Joker. And that clown has given him FAR MORE than reasonable cause.

​@@illuminossentertainment3253 Batman's a deputized agent of the law. If he wasn't, pretty sure none of the evidence he obtained while bringing in a supervillain would be admissible on the grounds of being illegally obtained.

Bruce literally killed one of his sons in a hostage situation where said son was holding the joker at gunpoint. Why does no comic run explore the fact Bruce is a basket case? Even DC's "vigilante" original run made it clear that Adrian, the dude running around in a costume blowing away muggers with a 44 magnum, was unstable. Yet apparently Bruce is a sane individual, according to 4 decades of Batman comics.

The thing is... Deep down Batman is just as insane as the villains he fights

Maybe they do have the right, but if Batman stands by and does nothing, then he’s complicit with it. And there’s the connection. 👍

Oh, no! You mean that the creatives in charge at DC Comics would have to be creative for a living?

Perhaps the writers need to stop indulging their darkest fantasies by putting them on paper and putting their hero in an unwinnable situation.

It's really simple. He's traumatized.

@@figlego And through his trauma allows countless others to experience the same trauma he feels by allowing murderers to continue murdering.

"Because insert 50-page essay on why" who needs a 50 page essay to explain it? It's because then he would just be another criminal, no better than the people he opposses.

Amen mate

It would make sense if Batman has a KILL RULE and Superman has a NO KILL RULE. It brings more debates to the JUSTICE LEAGUE that should be had.

And he imposes it on others too.

I don't see why everyone is missing the "just build sturdier prisons dumbass" option If you know for a fact that they're going to escape, you either have a time machine or did absolutely nothing to fix the issue since the last time

he's a vigilante and not a cop. you want to blame someone for the Joker breathing. blame the cops. blame the courts. the people paid to uphold justice. don't blame the guy circumventing the law to keep people safe.

They weren't particularly creative... Especially Ole' Bobby Kane!

That's really what it all boils down to.

Every FREAKIN' month...!!!

Dick Tracy just had unending brothers and cousins of some of his best baddies. Even The Simpsons killed Fat Tony and replaced him with an identical cousin lol

Underrated comment.

💯

Not Batman's either Gotham has no death penalty.

@@TheUnseenPath I'm not even sure about that. rather they keep institutionalising criminals rather than sending them to an actual prison.

​@@TheUnseenPath Batman isn't TRYING to kill them and always failing, though.

@@TGPDrunknHick Gotham is in New Jersey New Jersey has no death penalty therefore Gotham has no death penalty

@MagnificantSasquatch Hell I would say for Darkseid (and Brainiac), Supes would go from "I will try every method that isn't killing unless its totally and ABSOLUTELY necessary to do so" to "Give me 60 seconds and I'll kill them in 600 ways" pretty quickly.

And they keep on creating other great stories as well.

@@mirceazaharia2094 Based

The lack of permanency or any real stakes is what turned me off from comics at large. I enjoyed World War Hulk, and while comic historians can say this definitely did have an impact on the setting, it was a hell of a lot less than it should've been. Death in comic books are more of a revolving door than soap operas. Or the absolute insistence of using past characters instead of making something new or interesting (I was actually really involved with the mystery behind the Arkham Knight, but DC said "no new characters" and shut that down. Such a waste) There are great individual stories in comics, but they're just individual stories. For an overall story then even bargain bin manga have bigger stakes and impacts on the setting then the DC/Marvel comics.

The trouble with Batman is that the franchise has lived long enough to have crossed genres several times, from cynically dark-and-gritty pulp, to more optimistic and idealistic fare, to camp silliness, to blockbuster action and adventure, to some sort of dark take bordering on gothic horror, to a darker-and-edgier action revisionist fare, right around to a more extreme, deconstructionist cynicism than it had enjoyed even in its pulp origins, not to mention whatever the franchise was doing in its various side-treks through its animated, video game, and LEGO versions.... Batman has carried a lot of baggage through all those eras, and a lot of it just doesn't seem to fit all those genres equally well when played straight, leaving an uneven tone as it passes hands from one adaptation to another! The No-Kill rule in a cynical, deconstructionist world where the supervillains are genocidal maniacs and the authorities are corrupt and ineffective is just one of the symptoms of this trouble: the action-supergenius-gadget thing with the batmobile and bat-belt full of bat-gadgets looks vaguely silly in the more cynical or gothic horror incarnations of the story, the idealistic and later campy Boy Wonder sidekick angle never quite seemed to fit the lone-wolf vigilante detective thing even though a squire should have fit a "dark knight" storyline more naturally than it has in practice, the "dark knight" and gothic horror angles seemed to promise something a little more ambitious for internal moral conflict and character development with lurid self-discovery of buried psychological secrets than was ever delivered on by the stories, the campy costumes never really seemed to fit very well very far outside the lighter fantasy and comedy eras of the franchise, and so on: The franchise is inconsistent in tone and themes, it can't be all those things at once, and it's pretty damned weird when you step back from it and think about it objectively! In short, one way to summarize the problem (albeit with oversimplification!) is that many of the modern takes on Batman seem to have looked to "The Watchmen" as a model of How To Be Cool, while missing the fact that "The Watchmen" was a satire of superheroes like Batman, and taking all the wrong lessons from that model as a result. In general, it seems to me that the writers really need to be spending more time than they have been in asking themselves what they are saying and why with baggage like the "No-Kill Rule", and what the consequences would actually be in the world they are envisioning, and whether or not it's past time to drop some of that baggage altogether and move forward without it!

Superman works more with the No Kill Rule. He can run rings around a goon with a gun until he goes away quietly, or repents because he only did it because he needed the money for his sick poodle or whatever. Even when not evil, he seems more willing to end villains that are beyond human capabilities- even while not harming the "world of cardboard." If Superman is the ideal, then that includes protecting the weak, redeeming the repentant, and destroying the unredeemable.

When did batman ever said that

Wolverine : Meanwhile 20,000 killers will not ever kill again…

I concur

I'd love to see a Michael Carpenter like character in either Marvel or DC... provided writer handles the faith with genuine interest and care. Lots of stories of Saints and Heroes to pull from in Catholicism.

@@duncanharrell5009 shame that, because getting any writer at DC to handle Christianity, let alone Catholicism with even the slightest amount of fairness is out of the question. Hence that's the first trait of Nightcrawlers and Daredevil that get's forgotten or flanderized.

A fellow Dresden Files fan, I see. Yes, I love Michael, as well as many other characters in that series. I grinned when Uriel loaned him his grace so that he could serve again and make Nicodemus eat his lunch.

@@zeevdrifter2707 If the people writing them knew anything about the Faith, these two would be the most chaste men imaginable. Instead they're portrayed as promiscuous.

Seriously. The second time Joker got busted, the cops would hit a "speed bump" and the Joker would "hit his head" with fatal results.

@@silverblade357 OOF

No kidding. Police offers irl have murdered perps in custody for way less than Joker has ever done.

@@mrscruffles801 Noice

I could see joker being intimidating enough for criminals not to touch but any self righteous vigilante prison guard would just kill him when no one’s looking

You mean the polar bear that most women would rather hang out with than any man? Interesting

That's why Batman Begins was the best.

​@@rich520 "i dont have to save you" I thought that made for a decent loophole

Chad Aquaman moment. Picture this: mid 40's. King of Atlantis spots a fistful of goose-stepping, bratwurst eating, siege heilling, Nazis in a boat. Aquaman decides to shotput toss a live polar bear at the krauts in question. And this all happened in the pages of a book calls "More Fun Comics"

@@jiggycalzone8585 IKR

This really recontextualizes the old joke meme of "Master has presented Dobby with a Glock! Dobby... is... free..." (*racks slide*)

@@draketheduelist lmao 😜

Vash the Stampede can pull that off (mostly) with guns. Why can't Bruce?

​@@draketheduelist Okay, now I need to screencap this thread.

Jim Gordon almost kill him and Batman stopped him. I was ticked over that.

@@nicoleackerman205 Wasnt Jim going insane in that comic? I get Joker killed his wife but it was her fault and not a reason to just let him stand there and ruin not only his reputation but his entire life.

Huh

You're probably right to an extent. It makes sense, and I'd be all for that idea if Arkham wasn't more corrupt and violent than Gotham itself. Every story involving the place is about the villains taking over, or its disturbing history and more disturbing current practices, or both. Bruce HAS to know that Arkham just makes people worse (or, at best, doesn't help at all) but he keeps sending people there. And don't tell me that he has nowhere else to take them. One of the richest men in the world could probably find an alternative. He could bribe someone to have them sent to a reputable hospital in another city, or build his own. Arkham is not a state institution, it's privately owned and operated (I think). He tries to rehabilitate the ones that are already receptive, but he doesn't seem to try very hard for the others.

@@ASpooneyBard That's a part about batman that I think even the writers forget. A big aspect of his character is the fact he lives in what's effectively a failed city/state. Part of the reason he fights crime is because the systems currently in place are either: 1. Too corrupt to function 2. Too underfunded 3. Wouldn't be effective even in ideal situations because its just a stupid system Jim Gordon is the exception and not the rule in many iterations Due to this they've written themselves into the corner where any logical reader has to ask themselves. "Why is Batman even enforcing this system? Its clearly just a revolving door at best, and the source of the problem at worst".

So many people died due to Vashe's stupid no kill rule so yeah it's kinda similar.

Yes, give up on them, because they’re lost causes, and they keep escaping the prison system. If this was real life, the government would’ve been handled them.

10th like what u said was amazing

Just how many punisher movies and TV series are there?

​@Dethew 2 seasons of Netflix punisher and 3 films. Personally I didn't like the Netflix series.

Daily reminder. Killing is not a crime. The problem with modern Batman and pacifists are they don't know the difference between killing in defense and murder.

Killing is not murder.

Batman should find a way to reform the Justice system.

OMG so true

6000 IQ: Rev up the garbage truck.

60,000 IQ: Bring me the woodchipper!!

60 IQ is better. Display it, you think ‘oh it’s in a baggie so its safe’ BS? No, put it on display like the villains are visual learners.

True story: One of my gigs in medicine was making sure that we always had enough bodybags. We had white ones for like natural causes and black ones for the messy stuff, like motorcycle accidents.

Meanwhile there is me making The Spin O Wheelo Litch, who was literally born in a city known as "The Crown City", was raised more or less all right in a privileged life there, and then wanted the world to bow to him and for the world to be his stage, so he made a deal with an abomination to do so, and now does terrible crimes behind the scenes to continue raising his hax level.

Magneto tried to holocaust humanity, but he's been retconned and redeemed a thousand times...

I hate that new norm or humanizing terrible villains

Comrade, don't you know all evil is perpetuated by our evil capitalist society? Jokes aside, for Utopia to be possible there can never be any bad people, only bad societies that make people so. One day they will write a Batman comic where he advocates for universal healthcare and a living wage to bring crime down instead of fighting. They'll quote modern audiences or some shit.

@@CentralFloridaBowHunting IKR!!!!!

Joker blows up a nuclear bomb in Injustice and Batman still thinks Superman is in the wrong for killing the insane wack job who just murdered millions including Superman's wife and child. It's stuff like that that makes Batman a bad character. I'm at the point where I'm fine with how he died in Sushi Squad. He kept giving those people free passes and he fucked around way too much and found out.

@coltonwilkie241 Yeah, I mean that's just ridiculous. I remember someone made a parody video of Mace Windu killing Palpatine in Revenge of the Sith, and then turning to the Dark Side and it was done as a joke, but someone in the comments made another quip about how if you can't just end the life of an obviously evil dude without turning to the dark side what's the point of the Jedi? The same logic applies for Batman and really all heroes. Yes, no one obviously thinks that you should just mindlessly kill every criminal, yes, are people who turned to crime in bad circumstances or they just made bad decisions in life and can be reformed. But you also have people such as the Joker or Palpatine in this case who are just evil and make it clear that they do not want to be reformed and will happily do evil again. And in that case it is actually good to just end their lives for the purpose of sparing the world of an evil psychopath. This is actually why Michael Keaton is my favorite Batman because he isn't afraid of letting hardened criminals die such as the Joker and his minions for the purpose of sparing Gotham of their horror in the future. There's an obvious clear difference to anyone with even a quarter of a mind between arresting a random punk on the street and killing a genuine psychopath. This is why those who advocate against the death penalty are moronic.

@coltonwilkie241 what is sushi squad btws? Is that like a parody of Suicide Squad or something?

​@@twenty-eightrockNo, it's just a funny way of saying Suicide Squad. The RU-vid censors can be cantankerous at times.

I'm sure they people who are harmed by said villains would agree. Mercy isn't justice.

@@GibsMeMunny Facts!

Mercy to the guilty is cruelty to the innocent.

@@Alex_Fahey It really is

Batman: "If you kill a killer the number of killers remains the same." Punisher: "... Yeah, I've killed a lot more than one Killer."

Amen mate

Based grandma

Give your grandma a hug for me … then buy her a whiskey 🥃

@@weswolever7477 she doesn't drink

That speech Frank gave to Daredevil comes to mind, just replace Matt with Bruce.

And civilians.

Deadpool got pegged for International Women's Day...

@middlesiderrider yeah he got pegged in the movie too.

Deadpool massacred an terrorist army for attempting to kill his daughter. The scariest thing is when a joking hero stops laughing because their enemies stop breathing is right around the corner

And yet most couldn’t even name you one Deadpool villain.

That's... actually amazing!!! I like it.

I know keeping the status quo is a part of it, but I’m not convinced that’s the main reason. Villains die all the time. It’s just that usually they are killed by other villains, and if they want the status quo again then they’ll just make a new run. They’ll always do that because some character dynamics are too iconic

Not because Bruce Wayne see all life sacred and need be protected.

@@EvandroACruz Even the Joker's? Man, you see the lengths these costumed psychos are willing to go to, and it's really hard to justify that particular worldview. And if life is sacred, what about the innocents the Joker kills when he gets out of Arkham? Are they _less_ sacred, less deserving of protection than the Joker?

@@MrNickPresley We can't protect people that died but you can stop the killing defeating the Joker and keep him locked.

@@EvandroACruzDo you even READ COMICS?!?!?!

@@theapexfighter8741 Yes, since my eleven years old.

This

Nothing wrong with that interpretation.

@@orrorsaness5942 😀

Yeah the best way I've seen the no kill rule written (and I forget which comic line it was but it was an older one) was that the rule is only for himself. He knows he's as crazy as his villains, he knows that HE can't handle the power handing out death and he'd never stop, but he had no problem with other's doing it.

Mouth breathing cope, go touch grass

Punisher Max run had him keeping criminals so scared at one point that they stopped even going outside or doing illicit deals...while the Punisher was close to turning 60 and on a shoe string budget...

And hell, Punisher doesn’t even kill every time. In the Ennis run he’d let petty crooks get one chance…one.

Punisher is one of the few characters who can make tough decisions that other heroes won't and can't make, especially since he was a former soldier.

​@@yassinefarah2423Marine

Underrated movie of 30 years ago too.

I'll have to check it out, I do like the Shadow

I grew up watching that movie. Still watch it to this day. IMO, it has the coolest backstory for any vigilante in the realm of comics.

That’s how Batman originally was with people. He wouldn’t generally straight up kill but he would not go out of his way to save the villains. That was back in 1939 anyways

lmao

Nolan's Batman is a MASSIVE hypocrite.

I can never take Christian Bale's Batman seriously... His ridiculous death metal voice sounds like a 14yo edgelord trying to sound intimidating, it is embarrassing.

@@Stryker98 The Nolan trilogy of Batman movies is already aging itself worse than most will admit as time goes on. They take themselves way too seriously for capeshit that it limited a lot of potential ideas.

@@Stryker98 I still think Keaton was the scariest Batman on screen. Never raised his voice, always unerringly clam. But there was always this hint of unpredictable madness just under the surface; whether he sent a bad guy to the hospital or the morgue seemed to be up to his whims and conveniences.

What? Which one?!

Ever consider that it was a poorly written comic? There’s a Batman that covered himself in yellow to fight green lantern and domestically abused Robin by beating him up and we’d say that was a dumb comic series that didn’t understand the character

​@@PoisonedbladeUnder the Red Hood.

Conveniently left out all the crazy shit that Jason was doing INCLUDING SHOOTING TIM AND BLOWING UP BLUDHAVEN TRYING TO KILL NIGHTWING. no sympathy for Jason he had that coming.

@@wesleygriffiths8748 Thanks.

They'd probably just have joker staple on someone else's limbs and get back to gigglin about.

They’d have Joker find some workaround to survive and come back. He’s fucking unkillable at this point and it’s infuriating.

The tried and true Owen Hart piledriver is a pretty good method to incapacitate someone. Of course it would have to be done a couple more times than just once. Wouldn't want Joker no selling paralysis like Steve Austin.

Literally most of his self discipline IS so he doesn't become a serial killer. He constanly acknowledged he is near the edge of going insane.

​@@Harleyxjokerforever Then he should just kill the joker and kill himself or turn himself in. Afterward. When he was a one man show with one sidekick it was understandable but now there's like 10 members of the bat family to carry on the mission

@@Harleyxjokerforever "near the edge of going insane" Batman: I killed in self defense. Oh noes! I'm going insane and now must destroy the entire world! I don't believe that for a second. Batman isn't insane. He's the most logical hero ever made up. He's the last man to go on a crazy murder spree.

@@Harleyxjokerforever It's not a serial killer, it's one dude and justified.

My guy killing the joker would show he has lack of self control. You got the meaning of self control backwards

I agree. Making Punisher part of the big events like Civil War was a mistake. He works better in the margins of society than rubbing elbows with Captain America.

he doesn't because he knows the moment he takes down a big fish everyone gets involved. the heroes track him down easier but, it was so obvious and most villains have connections as well. the moment Frank goes after anyone big his crusade ends inside a week.

@@TGPDrunknHick even more reason to remove him from the cape and cowl world

@@Crazyredemu IKR. Not only will Joker and Batman die without him being infected with Joker serum, but Frank goes out in a blaze of Glory in a Final Showdown of Ultimate Destiny against people like Superman and Darkseid and literally everyone in between Win-Win

@Crazyredemu would love to see the Punisher killing villains, then a villain he can't shoot comes up to him and brutally kills him.

Its literally the only reason they're still kicking. If joker were real, his ass would've been executed after the second massacre

​@@HonkHonkler What you Talkin bout Willis?

@@HonkHonkler it's a great take.

@@HonkHonkler "Mercy to the guilty is cruelty to the innocent." At the end of the day, Batman hasn't made Gotham any safer, because the unrepentent trash he beats the daylights out of are still alive to hurt more people. Despite working outside law (which he admits can't/won't touch the people he normally fights), he refuses to actually take justice into his own hands to save people. He allows them to continue committing their crimes basically unchecked, and relatively unmolested. He even stops other vigilantes from doing what he should have already- how sweet! The why of it doesn't matter, whether he's a coward, or thinks doing it is beneath him is secondary to the fact that he is entirely complicit in what they do because he will neither end it, himself, nor allow it to be ended. If that isn't a punishment for Gotham, I don't know what is. Basically what I'm saying is that the above take is actually spot-on, and I daresay you don't really have an argument against it.

I think the first I heard this was in an LP series for the Arkham games, in which there was a very good case that Bruce could do more good as Bruce Wayne rather than Batman. Even if adopt the no kill rule still, funding social programs for mentally challenged people (Which many of Batman's villains are) would do a hell of a lot better than hammering them over the dome.

@@Sandact6 It's my understanding that he actually does a lot as Bruce Wayne, through the Wayne foundation. The problem is, a lot of his villains are either career criminals, like Deadshot, Firefly and Penguin, or are ideological villains, like Joker, Hugo Strange and Riddler. Neither group can really be fixed by social programs and mental healthcare. At a certain point, Batman needs to learn that he can't save everyone, and some people are legitimately better off dead, for everyone's sake.

I think frustration with heroes like Batman are the whole reason the Punisher is even a thing.

They killed off the punisher because they couldn't kill the fans and they couldn't turn him woke so they got rid of his logo, stripped him of his family and then turned him into a nothing character for the sake of trying to kill the use of said character on the right and what he means. Have a few Punisher comics myself, will probably do myself a favor and keep collecting while I wait for Marvel to inevitably announce it will no longer be printing the character nor reprinting it for the sake of its own backwards politics.

​@@thegunslinger8806didn't that already happen when they changed the character and logo??? It's no longer the Punisher.

Do you mean the real Frank that was an honorable soldier and loving husband and father or the retcon Frank that was a homicidal maniac since childhood who beat his wife and kids?

Anyone remember Flashpoint Batman? 🤔

I agree. It doesn't mitigate the worst excesses of the "Batman doesn't kill rule" (that he will actively save said monsters from their hard-earned deaths) but if he was simply giving the government ample opportunity to bite the bullet and sentence the Joker to death - or the people to elect a government that will - then I would say he's more than done his part.

Batman is a billionaire. He perpetuates the system and does nothing to stop it despite being able to. He's fully apart of the issue. Instead, he'd rather cosplay a flying rodent, beat people within an inch of their life then turn them in once he's had his fun. Just to do it all over again.

​​@@godfrey4461he's detective not an judge or executioner he believes he doesn't have the right to decide somebody's Life to take it or not. In a messed up city he is trying to fix the system and not to be the god of the system coz that's fascism.

Eh, then he would just be the new big bad, tyrannizing the few that remain.

@orrorsaness5942 Oh boo hoo, tyranizing violent monsters. Anyways...

"Had the Shadow decided to 'purge' Gotham, it would be crime‑free with‑in a year (give or take). " No, there would be this guy running round murdering people.

@@orrorsaness5942 Oh no, the Shadow terrorizes violent psychopaths while ordinary citizens get to live normal lives. What ever shall the DEI movement do?

Exactly!

After the 2nd time you're no longer a crime fighter, you're an accomplice.

osnap

Wolverine doesn’t run out of people to fight, and he has the most kills for a superhero in the Marvel Universe, exceeding even the kill count of The Punisher

@@AdrianFahrenheitTepes I guess you didn't get the joke. I was implying that, if Batman killed, he would be so efficient and effective we'd run out of villans. Exaggeration is often a part of humor. That said, I direct you to what the Joker once said about explaining the joke.

Hell you could even have him do like Snyder Batman and brand them , two brands means next time you're dead , or like if it's something like a terrorist attack just to kill people like joker does. That's all 3 strikes at once

No it's not Batman's fault it's Gotham's for not having a death penalty. Batman's job isn't to kill/. The gun rule makes no sense because cops and americans have the 2a and he's calling all them cowards and enemies. Cops kill but they deal with repeat offenders and not kill them.

Reminds me the fallacy of a lot of Revenge Bad stories. 9 times out of 10, a revenge story can be justified by framing it in the context of ending an existing threat. Rarely ever does the details preclude that argument, at least in my experience

funny story but, false. Bats is a vigillante. as those deaths are on the laughable justice system that cannot contain the Joker no execute him. Batman is not an executioner. it's not his job. if joker is to die it should not be up to one man to make that decision. much like the real world that's up to the court of law.

I mean, even with the no-kill rule, Gotham seems to have never heard of the gas chamber.

And the rest is rationalizing reasons for the hero not to kill.

He does have pretty good villians

i thought it was because comic violence was threatening kids in the 40s

It's lazy, it's largely an item of DC's editorial realizing it needed to distance itself and its been for far too long a battering ram for anti gunners to use in Batman themed anti-gun propaganda.

My thoughts exactly.

_Ahh contraire!_ Batman doesn't kill the Joker.. _gravity_ and _poor hand grip strength_ killed the Joker! Sure, Batman shot the bolo that wrapped the Joker's leg to the gargoyle (that weighed 100+ pounds) but _technically_ Batman didn't kill the Joker. Same in *Batman Returns:* _Batman_ didn't push the Penguin through the sky light and into the water 50 feet below.. it was the _bats_ he released from his Batsled thing (? how long were those bats inside that Batboat? What would have happened if Batman pressed the button and nothing happened but stinky dead bat smell came out?). Even in *Buttman Forever* Buttman did not kill Harvey Dent.. it was Harvey's inability to balance on a steel girder that sent him to his doom.. and an unfaltering appreciation for gambling.

Batman didn't 'let' Selina kill Max Schreck, he wasn't in any condition to try and stop her or apprehend him. He'd just been shot by Schreck, his suit saving him but leaving him incapacitated in that scene. Batman in the 89 continuity did straight up kill a few criminals from Joker's gang though, but they were trying to kill him so it was self-defense. Especially with that really strong guy at the top of the Cathedral.

WHAT? It was manslaughter for the Joker, the Joker's fall did him in. Penguin was manslaughter too, the bats made him fall through the window. Batman didnt "let" Selina do anything, Bruce got shot by Max so he was down while Selina got her revenge on Shrek. Two Face is 2nd degree 😂Batman's intent was Harvey would lose his balance, it not like he pushed him 😜

@@tonts5329 he knew she was after him. He could have stopped her at any time before that.

I just watched Returns last night and he totally kills the thug that he, uh... attaches a bomb to and throws in the sewer...

I always thought it was funny in the Arkham Asylum video game how it's basically the opposite of that, it's like a maximum security sci-fi prison with electric force fields all over the place, and yet somehow Harley Quinn managed to infiltrate and prepare everything for Joker to immediately escape upon arrival. They had like one inside man, that was it. What happens after that makes enough sense (for Batman anyway) I think, but you first have to get past the fact that the instigating factor for it all is Harley Quinn getting past all of the security, which Batman struggles to navigate past for most of the game, to unlock the cells. They even say the place is on high alert too, because a bunch of Jokers goons all conspicuously just got transferred in from prison. So they fucking KNOW that something is wrong, and Quinn still manages to to pull it off lol.

​@@yewtewbstew547Arkham Asylum has so many plot holes. Everyone ignored it because they just wanted to have a good time. Story and plot didn't really matter.

so true

@@yewtewbstew547 They had a few. A number of the guards and staff were in on it too, and that's probably how Harley got in like she did. Of course, one wonders why they'd choose to work with Joker, especially considering what happened to them once he got control of the asylum.

I could see Deadshot getting 1000 contracts on the joker on any given day. Of course there'd be countless people cashing in on the joker's death

If it were me, I'd just pack my bags and get tf outta Gotham. Killer villains on the loose every night and folks STILL WANT TO LIVE THERE?!

@@albatross4920 Remember that Gotham is based on New York City, Chicago, and canonically is stationed in New Jersey And last time I checked, people live in all 3 areas.

One of the earliest Hitman stories is Tommy getting a (sadly-fake) contract for a million-dollar hit on the Joker. To quote Tommy Monaghan: "All he does is stand there an' turn the air around him to poison, an' looked pleased as punch that he's doin' it. I dunno what I figured I'd feel like when it came to whack him - Not like this. To Hell with him." That's a guy who literally murders people for money, talking about the Joker and what a stain he is on the world. If Tommy had actually gotten to kill him, the ordinary people of Gotham probably would have thrown him a parade and elected him Mayor-for-life.

@@orrorsaness5942 If that's the case, why aren't any of the eco nuts in those cities as hot as poison ivy? Joking aside, that's a fair point, but from what I hear, many people are now trying to move from these cities precisely for the reason listed above: there's only so much anyone can take in terms of crime. That would actually make a decent storyline come to think of it. Imagine a depopulating Gotham where the crime bosses are struggling over shrinking spaces of profitability as people and businesses disapear, some try to expand into other cities and townships only to get rebuffed by local gangs, heroes, or even the odd militia. The more melodramatic villains would be upset since they have less people to watch them "perform" and stroke their egos and would face the same dilemma, and Batman would have to watch his beloved city go downhill due to the criminality he couldn't stop (with a voice in the back of his head arguing it's because he didn't end many of them when he should have) while Gotham itself deals with increased hostility from other cities, states, and regions as it is viewed as an exporter of crime. Funny enough, Poison Ivy would probably enjoy this scenario as she could see greenery replace the rotting infrastructure.

you were alive in the 1930s?

@Joshcoshbagosh Smart ass.

@@mrscruffles801 the points is him using a gun hasn't ben relevant in 80 years

@@Joshcoshbagosh And him being an overrated Shadow knockoff will be relevant for the next 80 years.

@@mrscruffles801 lmao what a weird video and thread this is. Gonna peace on outta this dumpster fire

The no killing code is a DC own creaton in the early 40's not the Comics Code.

@@EvandroACruz I suspected as much since they made Batman much more kid friendly during that time.

Agreed. He's OP af

@@fattiger6957 That's because Early Golden Age Batman was a Villain Protagonist at the time, that's why he was able to kill. Once he was no longer the villain, he decided, he didn't want to kill.

@@fattiger6957 And that's why modern incarnations of Batman is a "hero".

I actually have a couple of those comics on me that I haven’t read, maybe I should give it a shot, thanks for the info

Batman should be more violent like ShadowHawk.

@@HonkHonkler Fair, but at least cripple the supervillains...

@@HonkHonkler Oh no, sweetheart, we ARE doing this shit. How many people has Joker killed? That number keeps going up whenever Batman decides to put his faith in the clearly insufficient justice system Gotham operates under. You would figure a man that dedicated to cleaning up crime as a vigilante would be willing to get his hands a little dirty and put an end to someone who has admitted- several times - that they will not stop until they are killed. And yet, Batman always stays his hand when the opportunity arises. The point I'm framing is that Batman DOES kill, because he's complicit in whatever evil the Joker gets up to after escaping from Arkham for the 20th time that month. If he's fine with the Joker killing people wholesale, why wouldn't he be fine with snapping the clown's neck directly? That isn't compelling, it's stupid.

Jason is trash bro has killed a single villain there all alive

@@killmonger5097 I know i know all for "keeping him in line" with the Batman vision. Eh, makes me wonder why also the League of Assassins are more based on purging criminals from the face of the world. Despite will inevitable lead to tyranny.

Based

The no killing rule started before the Comics code.

@@EvandroACruz This.

so true tho

@@EvandroACruzit was the “we want moms to buy their boys our comics” code. It’s feminine to use no IMMEDIATE damage to save lives.

@@orrorsaness5942I’ve seen you in at least 4-5 comment threads. You’re like Mysterio 😀

Amen

@@orrorsaness5942Im surprise not one of the normal cops that has nothing to loss, didn't just say to hell with it. An put a hole on the back of Jokers head the second Bats drops him off at the nearest police station. He will be going to jail but at least he will go to jail with a clear conscience, that he took out the madman thats killed, tortured, and ruined many lives over the years.

@@silentecho92able amen 🙏 so true

Batman is not a city leader. He doesn’t have a badge or any kind of mandate, he is just a guy. Do you honestly not see any problem with every random guy deciding who lives and who dies..?

@taffysaur he is a authorized deputy of the Police force and consultant in several iterations of the character. Especially in the Adam West version. And no I don't have a problem with it because the crimals of Gotham don't.

I can understand the no kill rule for the first, maybe even the second time someone escapes from Arkham and commits some horrific crime. But the third? At a certain point Batman is responsible in part for the deaths all of these supervillains commit. He had the means to stop them and he’s sent them through the Justice systems multiple times. If anything, all Batman has accomplished is stopping the worst excess of his rogue’s atrocities and proving that the Arkham Justice system is fundamentally broken

@@BR-dy1ie That right there is the stupidest mindset. The only guy accomplishing anything is at fault because Everyone else is content fucking up. Batman has made it clear that he is not above the law. And if he takes it into his own hands, it would make him an effective despot. The fault lies in the Justice system that flatly refuses to change. And for that matter, if you want people to take action into their own hands, why not ask the cops he hands the criminals to. Why can't joe cap joker in the head once Batman hands him off? In universe, the people in Gotham will have to, at some point, admit that if they won't pressure their government to do their damn job they deserve the joker. Out of universe, it's funny to see that our real life cities mimic this criminal system minus the Batman.

Superhero supposed to preserve life not taken her. The villains life are sacred too. And Batman always believe in redemption.

@@EvandroACruz Tell that to the families of the Joker's victims.

@@kemp9842 The Joker sins don't excuse we do the same thing with him.We need be better.

They tried to frame it as a flaw in Batman’s character. To be fair, superheroes aren’t a gold standard for character flaws.

Funni

I thought the whole point of being a vigilante was *because* the justice system is broken and ineffective, so you take it into your hands to do the job better.

That's fair.

Exactly. If that's the only thing separating him from his villains, then he doesn't need to be wearing the cowl at all.

Amen

I've actually given thought to what would happen to someone who killed the Joker because they came into Gotham City carrying a gun and were the joker's worst day of his life: The incredibly corrupt Gotham City court system would throw him in Arkham asylum and drive him insane, making him the next Joker. And you could do it really well as a story, by having the character Charlie from the animated series episode "joker's favor", and have him become the nice jokey clown that doesn't kill anybody.

I just wish Tales of Vesperia's plot wasn't so meandering.

​@@MrDevious88 Yeah, and the last second world ending plot twist of almost globally induced tentacle hentai.

That comment alone is gonna make me play Tales of Vesperia.

I misread that as Yuri Lowenthal, the voice actor

​@@almalone3282Me too, I was like what he is?

Or just make a new comic and challenge yourself creatively? Nah, we'll just do more reruns and rehashes of the same few villains.

@@shanekeenaNYC Fair

Well said

This is the best comment!

2.The judiciary cannot sentence them to death, because they are insane. Batman is a vigilante, he should do something about his rogue gallery himself. 3. It's been shown time and time again, that he doesn't need the police. 4. He doesn't need to become the Punisher. He just needs to kill in self defense.

I think you can find the shadow radio show and books on the IA.

You'd think a rouge cop or a prisoner would've done the deed and taken him out.

@@thelordofthelostbraincells My theory is that any random person who shot The Joker would be given an insanity plea, sent to Arkham, and "therapied" into being the next Joker because of the corruption in that city. The problem isn't just Batman, but also the ineffectual police/judiciary/politicians in Gotham.

@@hariman7727 there's a secret joker program. I wouldn't be surprised if the owl furry illuminati created the joker.

@@thelordofthelostbraincells ... Man you chose your name well, lord of the lost brain cells.

@@hariman7727 hm?

Amen

According to the Atlas of the DC Universe, Gotham is in the state of New Jersey, which abolished the death sentence in 2007.

There are stil mass murderers in BTAS and the DCAU... Joker being one of them.

Batman not killing is OK … making him kill would make him The Shadow OR Punisher … we already have those characters. Batman should be something DIFFERENT.

@@orrorsaness5942 😀