I first started reading comics in middle school and my school's library had a copy of Dark Knight Returns. At the time I thought it was the greatest thing ever so I immediately picked this up because I thought "Returns was so amazing, I bet the Sequel will be just as awesome!" My eleven year old brain broke because I could not comprehend how bad this book was. I remember reading it and thinking "why do I feel so sad?" And not in the good way where a comic can pull at your heartstrings and make you feel for characters and their situations. I mean I actually felt depressed from how awful and tedious the experience of reading it was.
Garrett Knisley oh I can relate... to be fair to Miller though, Strikes Again, though nowhere near as good as Returns, had some good ideas. But I was disappointed :(
I read both return and strikes again at the same age. I preferred Strikes Again. I don’t think it’s a case of the book being bad. I think it’s a measure of how much of a boring dork you are. Strikes Again is a real trip. I love it. Introduced me to a lot of the DC characters. Was disappointed afterwards because they are portrayed in completely different ways in other comics. More boring and corny. I don’t read many comics because I don’t really like a lot of them but Strikes Again easily one of the best Iv read.
Favorite Ben/Sal exchange: "No more mutants" in HOUSE OF M on Back Issues Sal, "Basically Chuck says, 'I can't fix her.'" Ben, "I'm sorry. Can we call him 'CHARLES'? I don't want to call him 'Chuck'." Sal, "Wolverine calls him 'Chuck'... So, PROFESSOR CHARLES XAVIER...'" Ben, "You don't have to get so formal."
For the longest time, I was convinced that this book was actually Frank Miller taking all of the stupid, unfounded criticism TDKR ever received and sarcastically making a story out of it. Oh, if only that were actually true.
Maybe hey it would be really awesome ;_; and makes for a freakin sick story like "Dark Knight Strikes Again is u. All ur criticism created this." said Frank Miller and walked away slowly so that the words could sink in....
They always kill Martian Manhunter in meaningless and inconsequential ways. If you're going to totally shit on such an awesome and under-appreciated, under-used character, at least let him go out with a bang. #MMHFTW
Jack O Brien Well, as long as she's OBSESSED with Batman, of course. Miller's "characters" only exist to prove how great Batman is. It's practically a crappy fan-fic.
I feel like how the heroes treat Batman is how DC Editorial treats Frank Miller, Just too scared to actually do anything about him even though they totally could
I'm sorry we didn't see and hear the incredulous "WHAT?" from Ben and/or Ethan when the "Mysterious Joker Wannabe" is discovered to be The Insane Original Robin! I don't even remember what drove him over the edge! I'd hate to hunt down MY copy of this awful story but unless Sal does a follow-up I guess that's my only option. At least it wasn't just me who hated this train wreck! Nice review guys!
(It was years of horrific abuse- maybe not sexual, and I think that financial requires, like, a job or allowance or adulthood if it’s parental, but basically everything else)
Been here since episode 5 and I frequently re-watch episodes because i love them so much especially while i game and find it amazing to see you still respond to people even on these old videos.
It's too hard to choose one favourite line, Sal's impersonations are great, any time Ethan comments on the Spider God that's my new favourite quote of his or any of Ben's water analogies. So I'm gonna go with any of the weighted sighs Sal does whenever he realises how ridiculous what he's about to explain will sound.
26:07 I am very disturbed about how much that headcanon makes sense. But I’m not surprised these guys ca,e up with a better explanation for everyone’s behavior in the comic.
I actually liked this comic because of his punk rock-black humor- social satyre tone, and i love frank miller's new cartoon style, but you're right, the colour is lame
JCN 3 Oh you're eager, no doubt. I disagree with you at a fundamental core value, but I won't insult you for liking what you like for the reasons you want.
For a moment I was thinking about getting that book (knowing absolutely nothing about it) but after seeing this... THANK THE MAKER I didn't!!!! Great show guys... Keep it up!
I REALLY wish you guys did Final Crisis before this video! Ben's quote at the end when he's making fun of Grant Morrison, was EASILY the best quote. "You don't understand, I WENT to the Fourth World! And they handed me this story, and I thanked them! And when I took the book, it turned into a DICK, and it put it in my mouth! And when I looked up, it was ME and it was MY dick my mouth!!" I nearly died of laughter first time I heard that hahahaha
Wow I think DK2 is what happens when Frank Miller gets really drunk and has a weird dream...then draws with a hangover? Yikes, that is such a bad story
I wish I could afford comics now that they're so expensive, I used to buy a comic every other week. Now, the income is pretty slow, all the story info I get is from either Wikipedia or you guys, so thanks for keeping me caught up with current stories and events in today's comic. ✌😃
I absolutely love the image you put up for crazy but not stupid...."crazy but ties together well." Of course it would be Morrison. I do have a question. You mentioned at the beginning that there was only one time of weirdness between Batman and Catgirl, and that you would swing back to that. It must be in the part that got lost, because I never saw it. From the sounds of it I don't want to read this to find out, but now it is buggin me not knowing. Could you fill me in on what you were going to say about it?
This book (along with most of Miller's post 2000 work) is a guilty pleasure for me. I'm not sure why. Anyway at least we can all be sure that DK3 will either be amazing or amazingly hilarious!
SLITTHROAT13 Its not that bdad sure the hands were big and it certainly wasn't good! but it ALWAYS happens that when something is rated bad by many guys or by a certain someone - people jump on the bandwagon and go ya frank is so dum and his work sucks my gosh DK2 is stupid and buying it for 20$ is not a waste because it has some good in it just like i thought All-Star Batman was good (not great) because good artwork and quite a good story. U can't just write it off because he said "I'm the goddamn Batman" because it really isn't that bad
I hated DKSA so much, after I lent it out to a former friend I refused to take it back when he offered to return it. Several times. That was my *FU* to DC, Miller and the former friend.
This was my first ever episode of Back Issues, and my introduction to ComicPop as a whole! It holds a special place for me, and in some morbid, ridiculous way so does this book. I first read it as a kid, and had a deep fascination with the art and used to carry it around in middle school just to look at every now and then. I reread it recently as a now 21 year old adult, and that morbid fascination just came flooding back. I understand now better than ever what Miller was ATTEMPTING to do, even if it doesn't technically succeed, and my appreciation for it is certainly sustained. That said, although this comment will probably get lost - I DESPERATELY need to see this book revisted on Back Issues with the more modern approach. Sal going into the deeper history of how it came to be, going more in-depth with trying to understand the story and its implications, and finally seeing a proper reaction from Ben and Ethan to that final reveal. This episode more than any other needs a redux, considering the footage that was lost. Although perhaps not likely, I hope to one day see that episode come to fruition, with the hour long + length. One day maybe!
After a long time, finally I read it; to be honest I loved it, yes the art is repulsive to some extent but it seems it was on purpose. I don't understand the hate, the story was very simple. And for your information the love between Bruce & Carrie was just like father & daughter, which was made so clear in the end. This might not be at par with Dark Knight Returns, but I really loved it.
You don't understand the hate? Look, it's completely valid for you or anyone else to like this book if that's your honest opinion, but c'mon man surely you can at least understand why others hate it?
When I first read Strikes Again as a teen, I was utterly confused about the art style, and the colouring was something I had trouble getting used to, it just looked so ugly. Lex Luthor looks so different and monstrous it's hard to even believe it's meant to be him. At first I thought Dick Grayson as the 'Joker' was interesting since it hadn't been done before, but the more I thought about it the more I realised how utterly bizarre, disrespectful and stupid it was, on top of making DKSA Batman look even more like an arsehole. It's easy to buy that it's set in the same continuity as All-Star Batman and Robin, but not in regards to Year One and The Dark Knight Returns. If you look at it in that chronological order, he goes back and forth between traditional Batman and nutjob. Just such a mess.
The worst part about this comic was the beatdown of Superman. I'm surprised you didn't mention how Batman keeps ranting about how Superman never learned to think strategically because he only relied on his superpowers, which is total bullshit. If Superman was that dumb and couldn't deal with a foe who knew his weaknesses, Lex Luthor would've taken him down in no time. I am so sick of hearing about how Batman can beat Superman, Galactus, Goku and Chuck Norris all at once with one hand tied behind his back because of prep time. It's gotten to the point where Batman is more ludicrously overpowered than Superman ever was. I would love it if the Superman-Batman movie said nuts to the Dark Knight Returns and instead went the route of Luffy's fight against Usopp. THAT'S how a fight between a guy with powers and a guy who's weak but smart should play out. But we all know that's not going to happen.
You sir...won the internet. Finally someone who agrees with me on spot. I think most of this "Im Batman and I'm better than everyone " crap mostly came due to Frank. He did the same shit, but worse in All Star Batman And Robin. I love Batman as much as the next guy, but this has to stop. I like Batman the scared, to be HUMAN. I like it when his plans don't always go according to plan. And i especially hate it when writers write an egocentric Batman. The DKR is one. People always go to that as fact that Batman beat Superman., but all Batman did that story was make a big speech and fake a heart attack. Shit, that fucking story ain't even canon
+TB Tabby the fight between Luffy and Usopp is great, you know luffy is going to win but at the same time you see the different ideas of Usopp to fight Luffy.
+TB Tabby Man, after reading your comment the gears in my head have been turning coming up with how to respond so I'll keep this brief. 1. You're right about the Superman beatdown. Batman was being a complete dick and his only reason for his actions was because fuck Superman? Fuck that. 2. I also hate how some bat-fans make Batman an unbeatable character (despite many criminals evading him in the past). The real reason why Batman wins most his fights is due to his extreme adaptability not just his planning (though that helps). 3. I've both read and seen the Luffy v. Usopp fight and loved the hell out of how it was executed, but that logic does not apply to Batman v. Superman. Usopp lost to Luffy because Usopp fought in a place Luffy had the advantage (an open area) and Usopp had only one plan of attack, an all or nothing sorta thing. Batman would never fight Superman on his terms (a straight up fight, armored or not, 'cause that pretty stupid), Batman would (and I'm sorry I've become a hypocrite) have tons of plans and back up plans for dealing with Superman, Batman could also psych him out or use sonic devices to mess with him (I mean, Superman has the greatest hearing in the world, imagine if that was used against him). Plus in point 2, Batman is super adaptable, if a plan fails, he'll think of something. Not all fights with powered guys and normal smarts guys should play out like the Luffy v. Usopp fight cause the match ups usually wouldn't be that uneven. Batman has the capability of beating Superman and vise visa. There nothing more to it than that. P.S. Sorry, this wasn't brief at all.
TB Tabby I believe Batman could beat superman only when superman is written as normal. He is smart but not Batman. Superman would beat Batman if he was not naive or holding back
As far as the art goes Miller is an acquired taste, all the Sin City graphic novels have their rough spots but can be extremely beautiful in places..here he really dropped the ball though, all the empty backgrounds and Lynn Varley having to fill the void with the wackest, crudest stylistic computer coloring I've ever seen in a DC comic book...all the pixelated photoshop effects are what a first time photoshop user can make in seconds, the foreground images are nicely cut out but it's like Varley and Miller decided on the finished look for laugh; pixelated lightning (likely a blown up stock image) and the damn swishes of color with a radial blur all throughout...I still can't believe they made this shit to sell commercially and DC let them get away with it. She did a good job on the first book 'The Dark Knight Returns' and it's one of the best graphic novels of all time in my opinion. I can't understand what went wrong here though...my guess is it was time / money from DC, and Miller and her saying f*** you to DC over what can be assumed was minimal royalties from the first book which has probably sold like crazy over the years and made DC a tonne of cash. I just hope DC pay them well and give them the time DK3 deserves to make sure we don't see this shit again...I haven't taken a look at DK3 yet, will wait till they finish, not exactly in a rush to check it out either after DK2 though. Please someone, tell me that so far the new run is a step up from this!
I look forward to it! I used to call it the Birth of a Nation of comics - but I realized that there are people who think highly of Birth of a Nation (for reasons I don't understand), but NOBODY thinks highly of Holy Terror.
Headcanon: This comic was made this way on purpose. Frank Millers arm was twisted in revisiting DK, so he setup the sequel by forcing his version of the Golden Age Batman into the wackadoo, budget cutting, time constrained, plot-hole laden Abyss of latter end Spage Age DC (think red kryptonite. The abrupt ending of DK2 (see pt 3 for context) ending even has that anticlimactic Back Issue feel an overextended multipart comic of this era wound up having if it lost too much steam. This theory has wheight because, when Miller wound up bringing the Darker Knight again in Batman and Robin, he pushed it into the grim n gritty Modern age DK inspired, basically doubling down on the Brutality and Crude Humor a lot of trashier Comics of that era produced. Conclusion: Every DC based project Miller produced after DK1 was a shitpost.
Hey Guys it would be really cool to see you guys do a review of the old DC comics annual crossover bloodlines with the crazy wannabe aliens that go around making all the new hero's that they never really did anything with. It is a classic display of the 90's comics and I think Lobo was probably the best part in that story.
TVLittleHouse Nice I think I liked balistic the best the red guy with all the guns. but I think that was because at the time I was really into punisher and also savage dragon and he reminded me of them.
I liked the part where shazam died and I'd kind of like to see how/why Hal became a green lantern in that universe. Not a corp member, but the lantern itself?
It’s funny to me that for all the mockery and assassination of superheroes from golden age to ditko to modern age done in strikes again. That frank miller showed a better understanding and respect of captain marvel than most dc writers in the last 15 years. Plus considering the whole “damn you and your lemonade” moment from asbar that Hal is shown to be capable of constructs bigger than planets one can only imply an epic of legends happened between asbar and strikes again for Hal Jordan.
I agree 100% he totally destroyed dick Grayson's Legacy he could have just made it where Dick Grayson went off on his own and became Nightwing like in all of the other stories and universes he definitely showed how out of touch with the character he was.
Nice! I didn't mean to imply that it's not possible for an isolated system to sustain itself for some period of time. I was just curious if the subject of how it's done came up, as it is a difficult and obvious problem. An industrial city which was presumably not designed to be entirely self-sufficient would have to make a lot of major changes in order to continue to function while cut off from all its normal resources. Importantly, there has to be a source of energy which is renewable. Perhaps superman has UV lights set up in the fortress of solitude. Cities also typically do not grow their own food. Normally it's grown in the country and imported. Generally a city would not be able to grow enough food to support its population even if you tore down all the buildings and planted crops on the land. You'd need some sort of advanced hydroponics facilities with crops on every floor. These are actually interesting and cool problems which is why I was hoping the comics had addressed them. But if they did, Sal is apparently unaware.
You mentioned you were gonna get to something about the Catwoman/Catgirl and Batman connection, but I guess that it was lost in the camera breakdown. What was it? I'm sure its creepy as hell and, therefore, hilarious.
