Batman: Three Jokers…Or The Killing Joke: Rebirth? 

I really miss the "until next time"

I’ve always seen Geoff Johns as “Mr. DC Comics” myself. He clearly enjoys and understands these characters to an amazing degree and uses his stories to elevate them as such. However, as you said, he doesn’t necessarily push the envelope all that much so to speak. In regards to Three Jokers and Doomsday Clock, I feel like those stories were a result of the company not having a clear direction of what it wanted to do post-Rebirth. It could be speculated Johns wanted to do something very unique and groundbreaking with both books, however, I believe whatever good ideas he had were unfortunately put on back burner/ deleted when DC decided to move forward with events like DK Metal, Heroes in Crisis, and many other pointless events which ultimately forced Johns into creating two lackluster events of his own. He strikes me as a man who is so in love with DC Comics superheroes, as a fan and creator, that he wants to touch every corner of universe he can and then spin it into something more on brand with the characters’ inherent optimism. Finally, it’s time to tackle Moore’s darker and, at times, more nihilistic work (which is antithetical to such optimism) and the results very between readers...DRASTICALLY. Although, I personally very much enjoyed his time as a writer, I also feel he would be better off as Editor-in-Chief than a writer or Creative Officer of Entertainment. Seeing his work and what he’s tried to imply with his writing, I think it’s fair to say he’s more suited to that job than he is as a writer currently.

So glad you preface this with "Geoff Johns is not a bad writer". Anything negative I've said about Three Jokers has been met with "you just don't like his writing".

I have found myself enjoying Doomsday Clock and Three Jokers a lot more by considering them as “What if” stories. “What if the Watchmen Characters met the DC characters?” “What if there were three jokers?” That justification in my head makes me actually enjoy both stories as fun speculative comics. I do agree that both stories have a whiff of corporate influence, really hammering in the final nail against Alan Moore, once again claiming the works he wrote for the company.

I haven't read Three Jokers and I wasn't planning to. Nonetheless I enjoyed the eloquent way you critiqued the comic and I think it's a fair perspective. Hopefully people don't take it personally.

It’s interesting, I think the point (story point at least) of 3 jokers actually had very little to do with the joker character, I think it’s an attempt to solve the core problem of Batman, which is that the view of “crime” in Batman comics is juvenile and (sadly using a word I tend to hate) problematic, it really hits home with the treatment of Joe Chill, generally crime in Batman is framed as this evil ‘force’ that Batman can wage a ‘war’ on, this is pretty obviously not a representation of reality where crime is fare more complex, and involves ideas of poverty, class dynamics, poor education, lack of opportunity, and cycles of escalating violence, in this Chill is portrayed as having been poor, downtrodden, angry, confused, and desperate lashing out violently when he kills Batman’s parents, a decision he comes to regret as he develops perspective, this theme is reinforced through the comparison of batgirl and red hood and how they deal with their respective trauma, RH without the tools to deal with his trauma lashes out violently just like Chill did and continue an escalating cycle of violence, I think this reflection on crime and violence is kinda the point of the story (to perhaps escape the billionaire going into the inner city and beating up poor people issue) as for the the Joker, the entire story is a smokescreen in this he’s portrayed as simply being a violent narcissist (your mileage may vary on this) and the connection to the killing joke family is to show that he indeed was always this way and the chemicals didn’t create the joker at all, sorry for the novella

Three Jokers was one of the most pointless books published in 2020.

That's all Doomsday Clock and Three Jokers is. It's a way of keeping the copyright, and making a quick cash grab while DC's at it. No substance. No good storytelling. Plot holes aplenty, and really bad dialogue for good measure.

"NO ONE CAN KNOW WHAT I REALLY AM, I AM FORMLESS CHAOS, THAT THERE IS NO CONVENIENT EXPLANATION AFTER ALL IS THE POINT"-few pages later-"Anyway, the Killing Joke origin is canon". It literally ends with saying him having a definied identity is dumb ON THE SAME PAGE firmly giving him a defined indentity. Amazing.

I do think Johns has some weird obsession with Alan Moore. Blackest Night, DDC, and 3 Jokers were stories based on work from Alan Moore. Yes, Johns is not a deep writer. I really don't like many of his tropes, and his tendency to apply them to various characters, making them bland. As stated, Johns will turn back the clock, and erase years of work done on a character. Johns seemingly has no respect for the work done by past writers. Johns literally undid just about every questionable development Hal Jordan went through, and by the end of the Green Lantern run, was a boring character (a trait long associated with the hero). I also can't stand Johns' tendency to favor villains over their heroic counterparts. Black Adam might be more popular than Captain Marvel. Lastly, I think Joker having a family is the dumbest decision for the character ever. If anything, Batman is the Joker's "family." I really hope 3 Jokers is not in continuity. Someone will have a "bright idea" about Joker's son, and DC will have truly jumped the shark.

To further support your position, I haven't heard or read a single (trustworthy) source say either 3 Jokers of Doomsday Clock are worth investing in. I've avoided both like the plague. I want to like Johns more than I actually do. I think he peaked with Blackest Night.

3 jokers 🃏 🃏 🃏 is the bane of all 80s comics nerds

I still maintained Wally west was still my flash and barry allen didn't need to comeback

I want to say that I appreciate the openess to your bias. It's refreshing just to see someone open about it.

DC never should've resurrected Barry Allen, Oliver Queen, and Hal Jordan.

The whole thing annoys me. It destroys rather than create, and it raises questions such as: If there were 3 of them for decades, this would mean that when one of them is caught and put in Arkham, the other two sat around watching soaps because they never been seen overlapping till now. I am to believe that the prince of chaos sits around wait for "his turn"? If Batman knew that there were 3, then all this time he's been satisfied catching 1 at a time and then also just waiting around. My brain is hurting. Batman asks the Mobius Chair for Joker's identity and then looks really surprised by the answer, but in this story it's implied that he always knew... so why even ask the chair? I've seen some claim that he was just "testing the chair", but why then the shocked look on his face? He KNEW that the chair is supposed to be able to tell him, so that isn't going to rattle Batman. It had to be the answer it gave. I hate it. I'm not even a Batman fan but I hate this story. Is anyone able to salvage it for me?

Actually Joker know about Bruce secret Identity since 2014 Endgame storyline.

Didn't care for THE THREE JOKERS at all, but then, I also don't like THE KILLING JOKE, either. DOOMSDAY CLOCK has a little more going for it but I just can't get with crossing WATCHMEN characters into the DCU. One thing all three books have going for them is that they are all absolutely gorgeous to look at!

3 Jokers was such a nothing book, it tries to be impactful and deep but fails. It’s kinda made me realize that I don’t like Johns writing at all anymore

The flashback in TKJ was always 100% canon to Moore. It was Boland who aked to insert the ambiguity. CBR´s Brian Cronin dug that up. The abysmal Return of Hush established that the TKJ flashback is 100% canon. At least before 2011. Riddler even knew Jokers' wife, lol: dc.fandom.com/wiki/Batman:_Hush_Returns Endgame and Snyder´s comics in general also showed that the Joker knew who Batman is but he simply didn´t care. I could go on and on. The comic was fine and looked amazing but it had no new ideas outside of Jason x Babs. Mega lol. Look forward to the sequel next year. Jokers: The New Batch! Tripple lol. bleedingcool.com/comics/batman-three-jokers-sequel-geoff-johns-jason-fabok/ Edit: TKJ was also meant to be 100% canon since release day: www.cbr.com/comic-book-legends-revealed-585/

So Geoff Johns is the JJ Abrams of comics?

I actually like the idea of Joker is not a force of nature but a process that can be remade. Humanizing Joker makes us watch ourselves closer because evil is not some outside force but human choice and decisions just make good ones.

I’m sure someone else already said it but oh well. Joker knowing Batman’s identity was revealed in Scott Snyder & Greg Capullo’s Endgame storyline. Just reupped here and in Secret Files. That being said: Great video!!

DC can produce sequels to Watchmen and Killing Joke and Whatever Happened To The Man Of Tomorrow? (Neil Gaiman's "Whatever Happened To The Caped Crusader?") and any story they want; we simply don't have to read them. I prefer a quote from the New York Times: "The American novelist James M. Cain once remarked that he had rarely gone to see the screen version of one of his novels. 'People tell me, don’t you care what they’ve done to your book? I tell them, they haven’t done anything to my book. It’s right there on the shelf. They paid me and that’s the end of it.'"

this was bang on point!!! I was thoroughly underwhelmed by 3 jokers, and doomsday clock for that matter. I couldn't put my finger 9n exactly why until just now!

Love the art but....

So why did this miniseries take 4 years exactly?

Oh Cmon now. I personally can’t wait for miniseries that flesh out and explain the other Alan Moore created DC properties. 5-issue series about the Black Mercy plant, maybe Dr Manhattan can open another portal and incorporate V for Vendetta! Finally a Rorschach Vs V event the fans have always wanted. Personally I’ve waited my whole life for a Green lantern corps series focused on Mogo, Leezle Pin (a super intelligent smallpox virus), Dkrtzy RRR (an abstract mathematical progression only the guardians can perceive), and Rot Lop Fan (from the farthest and darkest part of the universe where his language and senses can’t comprehend the concept of “light” or “color”). There’s endless untapped potential that Alan Moore just couldn’t be bothered to “fully explore”. 😬

Corporate culture will always try to milk a stone. In my mind, these are still stand alone works of art. This is why I stopped buying corporate comics.

Thank you for explaining exactly how pointless both 3 Jokers and Doomsday Clock were; I thought they would be and avoided them entirely

It was ok but issue 3 messed it all up

Eh, Snyder revealed that Joker knew Batman's identity in 2012 with Death OF the Family, SBP/Overlord. Also, in all canons, Batman has been puzzled by Joker's identity for years after their first meeting. Even in this quasi-canon story (yes, I call 3J that because this story plays loose with reveals and the looks of the characters), that Bruce has always known makes no sense. Three Jokers was teased/setup years ago while Snyder setup that Bruce could not determine Joker's identity via DNA or fingerprints and that whole Pale Man angle. And Joker's backstory isn't about canon, the more appropriate term would be truth or lie. A better context when explaining things. This story is GJ's biggest failure.

I wasn't invested in Three Jokers but now knowing what it does, ruins The Killing Joke for me.

Thank god someone else pronounces it "Fabok" and not "Fabbik"

I have always thought Johns was a hack writer. A good hack, don't get me wrong, but he has never shown an original idea. All of his great work is built on top of others. So what is next, bring vanishing point back to the universe? Your rant was atypical but I do enjoy hearing your views

A complete waste and follow up to batman in the moebius chair. Also batman not realizing there are 3 different jokers? The greatest detective in dc? Really?

I love the joker, but he is way too over used.

Didn't care for three Jokers or Doomsday Clock. All I'm going to say

I totally agree with you. That was my initial reaction to this series. If there are three Jokers there is nothing unique about the character of the Joker. There is no need for an explanation for the different interpretations of the Joker over the years, and if it has to be one, I liked the one Grant Morrison gave in his Batman run, where Joker is supposed to be someone whose personality and attributes keep changing over the years and you have no idea of what kind of monster he will turn into next.

No comic book fan should let bad writing ruin their enjoyment of past good stories. At this point in comics, head canon is honestly and somewhat unfortunately the best route to take.

Your opinion is correct

I remember an episode of It's always sunny, where the female characters went through the same challenge as the male characters just a copuple of episodes prior. One of the females says "If you want them to take us seriously, why we have to copy the same thing they did?" (she didn't say it like that, but you got it). Johnns asks himself what made this or that character a hero, and write to show their strenghts, so he writes for the character. Not for himself nor the readers. If it is good, you want more of the same. Nobody's asking johnns to be like Moore, it's late for him to try to write in that registry.

I hated this comic. It was so predictable. And I love Geoff Johns.

i disagree with your argument. ..i dont think you actually understood the story.

I understand not being a big fan of Geoff Johns writing but using the first four minutes of the video to point that out is just pointless.

Corporate house cleaning. Before I BLEED OUT any cash on the miserable excuse for entertainment DC is anymore, I damn well want some spoiler alert or three.

But... Jason Todd arrested before in Batman & Robin #6. It wasn't a big deal then, why would it be a big deal now?

I love Geoff Johns' writing. I disagree with your characterizations of his work. He has reset many franchises and allowed them to grow. If you compare his Green Lantern mythos to others, it is unmatched. Same for Hawkman and Flash. Johns vs Grant Morrison on GL is no contest, IMO. Johns takes it all the way. His impact will be as long lasting as Moore's, again IMO. That said, his approach is cinematic (and admittedly commercial) rather than literary, which Alan Moore's specialty. Moore is clearly the superior CREATOR. The basis of the 3 Jokers Story is not the Joker(s) him/them self/selves, rather the effect of trauma on his victims, viewed through Batgirl and Red Hood, The forgivess/redemption arc, viewed through Joe Chill. Its an emotional story. Those are Johns specialties and where he beats Moore. All of Moore's characters lack a certain warmth that makes you care about them. Moore beats Johns in imagination. That said, knowing the Joker's true identity was a WTF moment, especially since the whole question was kicked off by Batman asking the Mobius chair the Joker's real name. That was dumb. Great video as always. You always give me tons to think about. Thanks Overlord!

I enjoyed his batman earth 1 books & his early green lantern but he really hit or miss with me, but am I the only one who thinks killing joke is a lil overrated ? I thought it was more of the shock of what happens that sticks with people (hated the ending, batman don’t laugh) but again alan Moore can do no wrong for some people, I did enjoy his swamp thing & League books though

Only thing of interest for me in this video was the inclusion of covers from Giffen's Justice League, I hope this is hinting to a coming video on that run.

Even.the most pretentious comic book youtuber😉

Johns is the most overrated writer in US comic books

I think your right dc can't leave those stories alone. I still choose to view alan Moore's work as singular and dc's sequel's as extra content the reader can add to those stories cannon. That being said I did really like the before watchmen mini series's👍

I paid cash for the first two chapters. Thankfully, spoilers obliged me from paying for the third. I love Geoff but this was the epitome of miscalculation. The story basically adds up to nothing. I don't even like the known killer of the Waynes anyway. It was one of the few Post 86 changes I liked. This is one of the few moments where DC copying Marvel doesn't work in its own way. This is a poor man's Wolverine: Origin.

Is anyone else sick of the Joker? I'm tired of him killing people and never getting killed on return because of Batman's "no-kill policy". It's just annoying is all.

It is DC Comics's killing joke now. Hahaha.

Very, very interesting. I always love your stuff.

Booster gold, what a chad

In Batman #17 (the conclusion of the "The death of the family" arc), a flashback established that, after their first fight, Bruce went to visit the Joker at Arkham and revealed this true identity to the him. So...

Honestly thought Three Jokers was alright. I personally didn't know WHAT to expect from it since it was the lesser mystery of DC Rebirth at the time & with how the Batbooks are now it really feels inconsequential. I definitely tolerated it more than Batman Who Laughs that's for sure.

I really think jason is the kid at the end thats my interpretation

Nothing more than corporate housekeeping, damn that's a brutal review, thanks for the honesty! "In moments of weakness, when the shadows get too close, when chaos threatens the intimate order we believe in, a smiling figure steps forward and laughs at our struggle" That's powerful, is this an original SBP quote or from somewhere?

Bias? Sure. A) You're not a Robot. They're far more anal, reppetative, and myopic than us. (Considering it's the internet, that's really saying something) B) You're not wrong, or alone in your opinion. Seen some threads as recent as last week where the general consensus was that the original story is undercut some, and the new material ain't no bargain in the shade, either. HAVING SAID THAT: Many of us are just suckers for a good read. If this is Geoff Johns at his worst, I say bring it. Does it de-value the previous material? I'm a little mixed. Some things (new and old) are deliberately left for interpretation. For better or worse, said interpretation is explored. In exploration, sometimes you turn a corner you shouldn't have, sometimes you get nothing. Other times, you leave enough for others to build upon. I'm not completely in love with the revised version of the Flash, but have to admit, it's been revitalized for a newer audience and continuity. And even the best, most revered works have plot holes aplenty. Others have capitalized on what has come before, taking it in different directions. It's not the same ol' continuity anymore but... HAVING SAID THAT, THAT: If anything, DC is suffering from an abundance of new direction. No one needed the Joker War, Punchline, sequels to the Dark Knight, or more Crisis/Flashpoints/Reboot/Rebirth stories than you can shake a stick at, either. But they're somewhat forgiven if the ride is a good one. Human or Robot, many of us just want to see what's around the corner. Some of us, (points finger at self) just need to lighten up and enjoy a good read.

When was your last re read of Killing Joke? It is over wrought. It is meandering. It doesn't age well. 3 Jokers is weak, but Killing Joke is not some sacred unassailable master work. Morrison disowned the story and all of his personal criticism are valid. In my opinion. I enjoy your work.

Funny thing is 3 joker could have work if it was hugo strange trying to create other jokers to push batman to be his best self This could have been a great message about oversaturation of joker then joker could hunt the others saying something like too many joker is worst than not enough

Even The Killing Joke didn't treat itself as canon. It's the namesake of the "multiple-choice past" trope. It was an open invitation for other writers to make up more possible backstories for the Joker. Nobody ever did, because the cult of Alan Moore does a disservice to comics culture at every turn.

The artwork for both 3 Jokers and Doomsday Clock are must s e but both stories felt incomplete and ultimately unfulfilling.

Killing joke was an average super heroic mainstream comic not a master piece 🤦🏻‍♂️ even Moore doesn’t like his own comic, both are great stories i enjoyed both and didn’t cry like bitch because johns made a three jokers story

I personally prefer to think of the Joker as an inevitable force of nature. More akin to Matt wagners the Grendel.

In my own personal head canon, basically everyone in Gotham knows Bruce Wayne is Batman (come on, who else could it be?) but they let him get it away with because he and his corporations and foundations are the only thing keeping the city from turning into Detroit.

I find GJones work to be cold, stunted, basic & doesn't make an impact. Your narrative said it much more nicely❣️

I cant really find myself enjoying Three Jokers. It also did the crime of ignoring Morrison's explanation for his changing attitudes as supersanity, which I preferred. Having it be 3 different Jokers just cheapens the character.

I agree with pretty much everything you say here. After reading through this story, Dark Knight's Metal and Doomsday Clock; I decided to take a break from modern comics. And go back and actually buy the weird comics I liked from way back when. Coincidentally, that is when I found this channel. I feel like Three Jokers and Doomsday Clock take away from their source material more than they give back. Also I think it's crummy that DC keeps trotting out Alan Moore's work, when he doesn't want anything to do with them. At this point, I'm waiting for DC to announce a sequel to v for vendetta.

The only part I liked was Joe chill subplot, but it could be done in Annual. Art is solid, but just feels like a bootleg for panel grid, and style. Charaters feels off, Jasson is taken straight from Countdown.Andd revelations more at ther, more make no sense.

Id love to hear your thoughts on Batman 900 and how Chip alluded to Three Jokers

Holy shit not only did this story come out years TOO late it didnt it just jerked around for a few issues then fizzles out. so much hype for nothing.

Tynion's run is far more fun and interesting than the three jokers. Thanks for mentioning that their identities don't matter. Idc who the joker is, I care that joker IS.

I felt the first two acts of the story were trying to lead the character of Red Hood to a new and interesting place. Then it tacked on some Batman continuity and Alan Moore material and lost any coherence.

I could listen to you talk about your opinion and reaction to comics for hours. Keep up the incredible content!

You got it, boss Never put the two together But yea, DC claiming their stories

I liked the artwork. It's biggest problem is that it looks like Brian Bolland, just not as good.

Johns aping Moore only highlights his deficiency as a writer

Seemed like the long way round, to state we have been given something unnecessary to sell more product.

Another modern example of how to improve on something by making it worse.

Soo my whole take from this is your stuck in the Alan Moore

Circular story telling. Lame. Pointing out their slavery to status quo.

Will, you ever make a video on Invincible by Robert Kirkman?

A video on Paul chadwick s concrete in the future?

Thanks for the spoiler arning but we ain´t reading this

I would like to hear your thoughts on the Joker movie

I absolutely agree. Crap.

I'm sure you're aware that vandalism is a perfectly legitimate form of creativity in 2020. Great vid as always ✌️

Yeah 😂

Great review

Beautifully well done

You nailed it.

I just figured this and Doomsday clock were just Johns shitting on Alan Moore's work out of spite.

Always enjoy your well thought out takes & analysis even if I don't always agree. I think John's deserves a little more credit, at least in his Lantern run, creating all the new corps, emotional spectrum etc. The reveal of Batman knowing Jokers identity was a huge mistake as well as the family reveal, couldn't agree more but I enjoyed the story for Batgirl & Redhood, it was a nice look at their contrasting characters. Also the Jokers motivation in the story, redeeming Joe Chill, so that the Joker becomes the most important person to Batman, I thought was a nice touch. Anyway good job as always 👏

I think the best thing about the comic is that these three Jokers appear to be the physical manifestations of the Joker's change in character throughout comics, as well as what seems like the three core parts of his personality.

The beginning and middle started off great but the ending threw me off. I'm better off with the Killing Joke.