These are the exact same issues that we had to deal with in Vietnam. People in tents second guessing soldiers engaged in close-quarters combat. Unbelievable!
DUSTOFF was on station for a very significant length of time. We made multiple runs up into the valley in an attempt to locate CPT Swensen. He was able to coordinate a CCP and HLZ under the most hazardous conditions. SFC W was my first patient and was flown to FOB Wright. Upon the exfil we took small arms fire from areas north of the village. We returned to the Ganjgal and made multiple runs up the valley again. Once again CPT S was able to coordinate another HLZ for 3 ANSF soldiers.
RIP the 5 soldiers of The Battle of Ganjgal AGST01 Kenneth W. Westbrook (August 13, 1968 - October 7, 2009), aged 41 MGSGT Edwin W. Johnson (October 8, 1977 - September 8, 2009), aged 31 1LT Michael “Mike” E. Johnson (March 30, 1984 - September 8, 2009), aged 25 MGSGT Aaron M. Kenefick (February 5, 1979 - September 8, 2009), aged 30 HCPO3 James R. Layton (January 29, 1987 - September 8, 2009), aged 22 You will always be remembered.
5 soldiers? As far as I know, only one soldier was killed in Ganjgal. Three marines and a sailor were also killed though, perhaps that's what you meant.
@@TheMistaMunz Not often talked about but one of the Kiowa Pilots was a prior Marine Infantry. He flew table top gun missions over Meyers head to cover him during extractions. Brothers to the end... You never stop being a Marine.....
"The U.S. gov pays the family of Taliban fighters KIA by U S. Forces. Out of the 50-80mil they send them every month! Some of which is to fight ISIS." Listen to this guy! Who is he explaining this to? Himself?
I listened to that podcast and it made me cringe. Just to think that our high ups didn't listen to the ground force the ones who were fighting that they needed help is sickening. To me I can't grip that people will rather let soldiers died than getting court marshall. I would have gotten court marshalled bc I would have gave those guys air support no matter what. Here SGT. Meyer feels he let his team down by not being able to get to them in time, no our military let all those guys down. He did not leave his men behind, he went and risked his and other soldiers life to leave no man behind and I salute him and all the other soldiers that day. Read the book or listen to Jocko's podcast, it will move you. Warning it's heart wrenching
You could hear Jocko short circuiting over what he was hearing/reading. His professionalism kept him from voicing his true opinions. I will say I look forward to the day Jocko gets to meet that Battle Captain.
I STRONGLY encourage everyone to watch this podcast. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-E6LbwCKJ0lo.html Dakota Meyers was one of the Marines who went back into the valley to find his team despite being ordered NOT to go in. This guy's story is really fucking heavy and goes into great detail of that day. This representation is half true at best and does not honor those who fell in battle. The ANAs and Marines weren't fighting farmers or goat herders. They were up against a large well organized foreign element and mostly pakistani taliban who were geared with plate carriers, helmets and well supplied for a heavy attack. Whoever was in the TOC could've faced a court martial for breaking fire mission protocol but would've saved so many lives, the fact that they didn't only proves that their own asses mattered more than the men dying in the AO.
There were some officers relieved after this incident but that’s not going to bring those guys back now the failure was how the entire Afghan War was being fought in 2009 with such limited assets. I was QRF to this fight attached to 20th SFG but by the time we got there the fight was over and the enemy had gone. 1/32 Inf. had too much going on at the time to support this operation really and there were so many failures in planning it is ultimately why it failed. You would have Wanat in 2008 and literally less than 30 days after this fight you had COP Keating almost get over run and all of these really were leadership failures at the top but let’s just award a bunch of medals to make everyone feel better and relieve a couple of people that really had no business being in the positions that they were in to start with and somehow that will make everything right, sad!
What happened here is the bureaucracy is created to efficiently manage the resources became so complexly bureaucratic with many dependencies and constraints that cost the guys in the fields their lives. In plain words, the critical assets are there but not allowed to be deployed or do anything effective. That only encouraged the enemies to be more aggressive knowing that their actions resulted in no quick or effective responses. The guys and gals at the TOC and other command posts must be selected from soldiers in the fields. Not more bureaucratic process and paperwork training.
This was a clusterfuck from the start. One problem was leading from the rear and not listening to the personnel on the front. Denying indirect fire and air support caused the deaths, The Army unit should have went in anyway to support the Marines.
@@ACIDICcitric he was saying listen to a different person talk about this, he didn't say he was there. What a bunch of babies, you weren't there either so shat ap. Makes no sense for you baby girls to say that. Were you there!! Like damn you got him there 🤣
The infamous Kunar province, never thought I'd miss that place. While there we couldn't wait to be back in the states. Now that we've been back for a while I wish I could go back. Life was so much easier, we had a routine down. Don't get me wrong it sucked and some days shit happened that made our assholes pucker but we had a purpose...
@@ThatTURK1 To survive, to thrive in hell with your battle buddies was the purpose. the political shit doesn't matter to the average grunt on the ground, at least not for long.
even in crude 3D animation, they show the ANA at 17:10 est. shooting blindly and then it pans to the Marines accurately aiming at the enemy. made me chuckle, (since I got my DD-214).
As bad as this was, The willingness to make and then release this video does inspire confidence that the US military although will always makes mistakes and covers officers asses atleast they then use it to educate future and current officers , NCOs, Enlisted.
No excuse. CAS assets should have been on station, period. There should be no denial of support when troops in contacts and taking casualties. Especially if lessons learned in earlier campaigns show grave consequences of such lack of support. SW teams should be dedicated and part of mission planning of each patrol. Especially if the terrain is elevated and provides a well place of cover and concealment for the enemy. An hour and a half to 2 hours after i make the first call, is just too goddamn late.
I think because it was such a hodgepodge of random people. If it was the 101st or 82nd it’d be like oh hell no, we are gonna support our guys, we are NOT gonna have this debacle mar our reputation with a bunch of casualties, but instead it was like wait, someone needs help? Who exactly? Uhhh, never heard of them, sorry, we will get around to it if we have time but right now some actual units with a name and some pride are taking priority
***** You are so absolutely right. It is not. Dude, I have been missing you and being able to talk to you daily. Google is doing something VERY strange with my Email account. They are allowing me to sign in and accepting my password, but it just freezes on the "gathering information" page. I am unable to obtain any of my mail. I believe I am going to start a new Email account with a different provider and I will be sending you an email very shortly. There is quite a bit I need to discuss with you and Gmail is simply taking up way too much of my time by keeping me out of my mail for literally hours before I am able to obtain my mail or even compose. SO....if you receive an email from an address you have never seen before, please do not delete thinking it is SPAM,,,It is probably just me!! Please give my love to your beautiful wife, Selma and I am hoping that since Spring and Summer is right around the corner that you and Selma and me and Blair will be able to get together soon and maybe spend a day at the range or hiking in Bankhead and a BBQ to top off the evening. Certain friendships are made by God for very particular reasons and I can't help but to believe or friendship has a higher purpose. I'm going to get on obtaining a new email address and I will be sending you an email very soon! HUGS!!! XOXOXOXO Manders
Undermanned HQ Co. + Care for Civilians + Reliance on Afhgan 'Militia' = Massacre. Caring for Civilian lives, and placing reliance on pathetic excuses for a 'Police Force'. Cost us too much in this war on terror. Perhaps if used the Good ole ROE's and Doctrines, Afghan and Iraq would be a Slam dunk Victory.
Why the hell was the 11B platoon not released to get into the fight? What ate up BN command staff was directing this? Troops in heavy contact. Get the QRF THERE ASAP. Jesus christ
"When I'm being second-guessed by higher or somebody that's sitting in an air-conditioned [office] why [the] hell am I even out there in the first place?" Let's sit back and play Nintendo." Capt Swenson finally left the Army in 2011. now after he recives the MOH, the Army is kissing his ass, asking him back to active duty? this is typical Army FUBAR!
It makes me sick to see how many times they were denied support. We always seem like we send soldiers into battle with little man power and restrict air support. Smh as if we cant afford it $. We would save more lives if we reversed the situation and gave them overwhelming man power and actually complete these missions.
One devastating thing I learned from this video that blew my MF mind is the fact that they unknowingly gave the enemy an entire extra day to coordinate this ambush as it was meant for Sept 7 but was delayed to Sept 8... fucking tragic
I noticed how subtlety they called out the Command Post for their incompetence at the end by admitting how grossly unqualified they were for the job. The amount of bureaucracy that the troops in contact had to jump through to simply get some artillery or air support was ridiculous. I guarantee that whoever wrote that ROE they used did not intend for them to interpret it as _“deny troops all requests for support in the face of the enemy.”_ This engagement shows that the Command did not trust their own troops on the ground to make a judgement call, despite being their only real eyes and ears on the scene. That lack of faith in them costed those men their lives. If you are back at the CP and don’t have a full grasp of the situation, you need to at least be able to believe that your own men on the ground fully understand the commander’s intent and can make a good decision on their own from what’s happening in front of them. This constant refusal to grant them the support they requested allowed the enemy to gain a major tactical advantage, which caused them to be overrun. This is the inherent problem when you centralize all decision making to the Command and not trust your frontline leaders being engaged to make their own judgment calls.
@@Nimrodbodeinejr it was a humvee. The interview you are probably thinking of does make it sound like he was driving a technical (pickup with pkm) but he was in a armored humvee turret though it doesnt take away from his heroism because one rpg or on bullet could have stopped him easily
Geez, this submitting requests for Arty or Air Support up the line, thru several filters and levels and waiting for approval sounds like a huge cluster that doesn't hamper the Tal from taking the initiative.
Surely White Phosphorus fired at minimum safe distance from village or fighting troops would be better than nothing. If it is behind the troops at least they have a shorter distance to run before the smoke obscures them? Also why dont they have normal smoke? If you are concerned about to much firepower wouldn't you up the smoke ammo to compensate?
Mortar indirect fire support was not considered but machine guns were? Is there a statistical bases that indirect fire support will hit civilians? Could this have formed the basis of the decision?
@@bigt6227 If you’re gonna run your big mouth keyboard Rambo, why don’t you let us know your unit, rank, and dates of service? STFU until you provide proof you’ve had rounds fly past your head other than playing Call of Duty.
An interesting sanitized review of a mission that illustrates how coalition forces (read the United States) failed to train the ANA (Afghan National Army) in sustained counter insurgency methods. The obvious dependency on aircraft to support troops in contact and lack of indirect fire organic to maneuver units is obvious even if there was an efficient commo plan and proficient battalion command staff with a vested interest in the success of their subordinate troops on the ground. You can see this over and over again where troops in contact call air support and in comes an expensive technological wonder that at times deploys ordinance and other times does low passes with useless flares as a show of force. It doesn’t take a West Point Commandant to realize the Afghan’s will never learn to effectively be a stand alone counter insurgency force with that type of training. Sad but true we set the ANA up for failure by not teaching them to fight like the Taliban instead of rich Americans. The Taliban do not have air support. The Taliban are within the population or could move freely even in villages they were not tied into like Hazara and Tajik villages they passed through. If we only trained the ANA to use RPG and mortars for fire support. If only we insisted the ANA never wear uniforms and only wear their local garb. If only we formed community defense forces where they fought for their home villages instead of idealistic desegregated Tajik, Hazara, Pashtun etc… Army. If only we inspired the ANA to fight for a cause greater than money. If only we didn’t train them to fight like Americans a historically inept counter insurgency force with a disdain for living in the population we are trying to win and a reliance on conventional kill technology that cost more than most countries entire budget. I say this through the eyes of advising 1st Kandak and ANP mentor teams. I did not disdain my deployments, I actually considered them the highlight of my 20 years. I have no bitterness just regret of the big green machine inability to think outside the box and go native. Of course this country isn’t prepared to pay that kind of cost in personnel on the ground and command staff promotions. “All Volunteers “ God bless those dirty boots on the ground!!
Thats why soldiers died thst day. "cos all they got". was request denied.. Its like sending a person with a kinfe into a gun fight. They needed support and got jack s**t.. And when they did damage was already done life's was already lost that didnt need to be if support was given!!!.. When soldiers are begging for help and get nothing something is serious wrong!!!
And here was a huge sign that was ignored when they showed up there were large number of civilians leaving the valley with all their valuables because they knew what was waiting for them.
No one ever appreciates the hard work and reassurances the top brass go out of their way to instill into their soldiers when they put them in harm's way on sometimes a pointless or just suicidal mission.. "Listen up boys, you will most definitely be tested, and be on your game cause we know for a fact it's going to get dicey.. But we want to reassure you that we are taking safety very seriously. You won't have to worry, myself and the other top officers will be miles away and not in any harm. We know you were worried about this from the start so we just wanted to put your minds at ease.. Also, umm right now we sorta have some bad pr going in the press, so a heads up that you won't be getting any reasonable requests for air support. I know that breaks down into some of you really getting the shit end of the stick, but if it helps in anyway these commands are being sent from Washington from a couple senators who just sent me a selfie of them at a very expensive & prestigious steak house.. so they are very safe too so no worries.. Alright good luck and we'll see some of you later"
Why on earth would you hold a meeting with the elders of the village at daylight anyway. Should have waited to later in the day so more intelligence of the valley could be established.
What a horror story of ineptitude by Army leadership. Heard several Army Os were "reprimanded". Hell, they should have been brought up on charges of incompetence.
Is there a quota for the amount of dead people you need per air asset? Pathetic. Just like Swenson said, he was the ground commander. Is the TOC there to support and oversee for asset allotment or act like they’re on the ground during. The TOC didn’t have field grades in their office anyhow. Complete the f’in paperwork correctly and provide the damn support.
I’ll tell ya what didn’t occur in that command post that should of been top priority & that’s getting Apaches on station to help these guys push the enemy back. Idk how many times they were leaving to go assist & were told turn around & a couple who were almost on station only to be told turn around. It was left to 2 guys to drive an unarmored pickup truck belonging to ANA with their rifles & a mounted mg to defend themselves. This battle of Ganjgal was a failure in leadership from the Officers who were nice & safe back at the TOC & CP just like The Battle of Wanat & The Battle of COP Keating were & the worst part is that the public only knows of these battles bc their were CMOH given out in each, there were a ton of Purple Hearts, and the main reason these are some of the most known battles is bc there’s a movie of 1, 1 was at the time the most Americans lost in a battle, & another(this 1) bc of sheer bravery shown by Myer. Like I said sadly there’s a bunch more battles just like these where the senior leadership failed their guys in the field by not providing the tools they needed & were told they would get if they ever needed them. We’re trained to fight with air power assets & when those are denied sadly this is what happens!
There were some officers relieved after this incident but that’s not going to bring those guys back now, the failure was how the entire Afghan War was being fought in 2009 with such limited assets. I was QRF to this fight attached to 20th SFG but by the time we got there the fight was over and the enemy had gone. 1/32 Inf. had too much going on at the time to support this operation really and there were so many failures in planning it is ultimately why it failed. You would have Wanat in 2008 and literally less than 30 days after this fight you had COP Keating almost get over run and all of these really were leadership failures at the top but let’s just award a bunch of medals to make everyone feel better and relieve a couple of people that really had no business being in the positions that they were in to start with and somehow that will make everything right, sad!
This sums up how the Army is now. You didnt go through the proper channels so we will deny your request. Dont care if guys are dying. Cowards getting promoted is what's this is called.
The whole thing was a clusterfuck when they were being over run and calling for artillery and mortar strikes the command was ineffective back at the talk
Man they left those guys just...out there. Just left them there! They had predesignated targets so I'm sure going in it was like yeah ok contact... then it was denied denied denied. Some dumbass captain caused deaths just cause he had a radio and didn't get his coffee or something.
Why do you need approval for fire support? If your the the ranking officer on the ground under heavy attack you should be able to call in fire missions yourself.
It's always do to poor leadership that the majority of this operations go bad. Officers that never seen combat straight out from the "officers school" with their ass full of arrogance and false bravata, seeking to make a name for themselves and achieve all those great victory's in batlle , and the ones paying for that are those on the ground.. Just because someone siting in a comfortable Share thinks he now's more of the situation that those fighting the REAL fight . This one is particularly revolting, because dispute all the requests, all the warnings and everything is going south, the MORON leading did nothing, abandoned them to fight and die alone, only after the mess is done they started to act! And even then with limited support afraid of "hurting' the "locals" KILLING their MAN
