I am confident in saying that you give more info about these scopes than anyone else who reviews them. You're killing it. A year or 2 ago I may not have valued your opinion as much bc you hadn't reviewed enough scopes but now your opinion would weigh heavily on decision making.
I got my atacr 4-16 mil-xt a few weeks ago. Thoughts: Amazing image clarity and contrast Very easy to get behind at all magnifications Feels bombproof without being too heavy It just feels right on my ar308 I think people underestimate how much usability factors into your happiness with a scope. Excellent eye box and crisp image is a major deal. I also had a xtr2 3-15 in the past and I couldn’t stand not having a good image at the higher end. If it’s on the dial, I want to be able to use it and be happy with it. Overall, I doubt I’ll ever sell my atacr 4-16
I haven’t been let down by Leupold and never have had to use their warranty. So I stuck with the mark 5hd on an AR10 build recently. Nightforce has amazing optics, but I don’t need illumination and didn’t want to spend more than $2200 on a new and not used optic. Can’t go wrong with either folks.
I got to play with one of the new March 1.5-15x42 Dual Focal Plane scopes a few eeks ago, and I was very impressed. I think I know what I'm getting myself for Christmas :)
Now that's how you design a scope reticle. Aiming dot and quick bracketing circle placed on the second focal plane, in the Christmas tree/ scale marks on the first. GENIUS. GAME CHANGER.
Want to say, your channel does some of the best scope videos on YT. I recently got the ATACR 4-20 with the mil-xt reticle and really like the scope. I like the mil-xt because I think it has some of the utility of the Tremor 3 and maintains usability at low magnification.
Can we please get a best of video? Like a video on price tiers of LPVOs and your preference based on cost and performance. Same for scope mounts. I watch a lot of other channels for reviews but I actually trust yours. Love your channel and have been subscribed for a long time. Suppose I need to throw some coin at your Patreon.
I’ve become a fan of NF, having first gotten the 1-8 with the FC-DMx reticle for a GP rifle and being blown away by the glass quality. When it was time to get an optic for a DMR, I got the 4-16 with the Mil-XT and never considered the Leupold or even the Kahles. It’s the combo of glass, reticles and controls, all are better executed on the NF.
I would love an informed and objective take on the ATACR 1-8. I love mine, and know why, plus my couple nit-picks that are probably just deliberate choices to meet the needs of other users, but I haven’t owned more than a few LPVOs and don’t really have a category-wide framework for evaluating them. There’s certainly one or two well-made high-end LPVO comparison videos, but I don’t really mean that, just an ATACR 1-8 in-depth look from someone with the background and mental framework to eval products in the category with comparative insight. Regardless, it’s my first NF and has, in one single product, made me a believer in the extreme competence of the company. While I keep reminding myself I can have More cheaper things instead of just one of the Best thing, I do continue to think that my next magnified optic will be an NF 4-16x42 (and these videos have certainly not attenuated that sentiment) and I’ll just tell myself that’s prudent bargain shopping instead of a Tangent Theta :) * I assure you there was never any consideration of a TT, or even a ZCO, which I’ll call “zero consideration optics”. Ya gotta draw the line somewhere :)
@@frozennorth3426 above $2k you start getting into diminishing returns. There are still some valid prices and justifiable choices. But not all the time. I need to try out the 1-8 atacr. All I ever hear is good from it.
Love your reviews! It's clear you hate the tremor 3, but I think if you were trained with the tremor 3, and found out its advantages, you would look at it with a whole different mindset.
Does anybody else have a super hard time even telling the difference I feel like probably because I’m watching this on the cell phone they’re both so good that I really can’t see the difference. Still love the videos though.
I have leupold mk5 5-25 with tremor 3 and it’s great. I’ve also tons of experience with atacr 7-35 tremor 3, also great scope. You can’t go wrong with either brand in my opinion. For these two mid range options I’m going leupold because I have lots of experience with the tremor 3 reticle system and prefer to hold vs dialing. So to me, it boils down to reticle preference. I know NF use to offer the 4-16 scopes with Horus reticle, don’t know why they discontinued them. But as previously stated, with mil reticle I prefer(read as need) the Christmas tree reticles and Horus h59 and tremor systems can’t be beat in my opinion!
I was looking at both of these scopes for months for a 16 inch SPR 556 setup. I went with the ATACR and couldn't be happier. The only thing I would change is reduce the scope body when looking into the scope.
I love how thorough you are. I've been debating between a Mk5HD 5-25x56, illuminated PR1-mil vs. ATACR 7-35x56 Mil-C or Mil-XR. The problem is there's a full $1000 price difference so it's hard to justify. How fair is it to compare your review of these mid-power magnification models, to the 5-25x56/7-35x56 high magnification models? I've been researching a lot and it seems like a toss up. People seem to love both. Right now, if a Leupold is 90% of a NF, it's hard to justify an extra $1k for 10% better/diminishing returns. Especially, when I'd like to get an exorbitantly priced Spuhr mount since it's going on a .50, which isn't exactly precision.
Both good scopes, if looking for capped windage, locking elev turret, basic illumination, decent toughness and OUTSTANDING glass. The Vortex HD LHT Razor series are awesome. 4.5 x 22 >22 oz, 3x15 SFP >20 oz. Heck buy two and you can carry one spare in your kit and have a spotting scope for your LPVO partner. LOL.
Does Leupold really put Patent details in the Tremor reticle? Huge deal breaker! Right up there with "Please read manual before use" warnings on receivers. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-OWEXr7_4_M4.htmlsi=tqqRYeQ7tWdEBYVq&t=673
They are actually a sold company. They are the biggest scope donator for the prize tables in competitions. They do ALOT to promote different shooting sports
Love both my nightforce scopes....but lately......I have been eyeballing schmidt and bender.............it's their turrets......but I won't be getting rid of my atacr....
Between these two…definitely like looking at the NF reticle more because how flat it looks behind/around it, that purple haze on the Mk5 is a huge turnoff as well. I think you just made my mind up, I’m thinking the NF for my 18” SPR and my soon to be finished Zeus-based short action. Thank you for doing all of this, this is EXACTLY the side to side comparison I was looking for!!!
Thanks for the always excellent and informative review. I do have a question though on the NFs; You reviewed the Nightforce 4.4-14F1 SHV, the NX8, and now the 4-16 ATACR. Now that you have a more comprehensive feel for NF glass and features, would the SHV be a viable option against the MK5? How does it compare to the NX8 and ATACR optically?
I agree with you. I too had a Leupold Mark 5HD 3.6-18x44 M5C3 FFP Horus TREMOR3™ - Illuminated Reticle, 176811 and a Nightforce ATACR - 4-16x42mm F1, Horus TREMOR3™ - Illuminated Reticle, C575 and a Nightforce ATACR - 4-16x42mm F1, MIL-XT™ Reticle, C615 at the same time. I sent the Leupold Mark 5HD 3.6-18x44 M5C3 FFP Horus TREMOR3™ - Illuminated Reticle, 176811 off to a new home (to be loved and appreciated) and (happily) kept the Nightforce ATACR - 4-16x42mm F1, Horus TREMOR3™ - Illuminated Reticle, C575 and the Nightforce ATACR - 4-16x42mm F1, MIL-XT™ Reticle, C615. 😉
I think the new undesputed sleeper king of SPR scopes is the Nightforce NX8 2.5-20x. Most SPR scopes need that 2-2.5x low end for up close rapid engagement, and most top out at 8-12x, but having 20x is a game changer. I'm seriously considering a NX8 for my grail SPR optic.
I am heavily invested in Leupold MK6’s in both 3-18 and 1-6 and an older Nightforce NXS’s and I’m really satisfied with both. Since my original purchases I purchased a S&B 5-25 PMII Tremor 3, MK 5 3.6-18, Arken EP5 and most recently a 5-25 ATACR milXT. All of them are good with the PMII being superior to any optic I’ve ever used. That said the ATACR takes a significant step closer to the PMII whereas the Leupold MK5 isn’t significantly better than the prior gen MK6 and if I have the option I’d actually take the MK6 over theMK5. Between the ATACR and the MK5 the ATACR is a significantly nicer optic and with the recent Schmidt and Bender price increases it’s hard to justify the price as the Nightforce ATACR line is really close in terms of image quality. My MK5 has a bit of distortion at the edges where the image looks slightly curved. That said my Arken eP5 is also really close to my MK 5 in image quality which isn’t a negative for Leupold but instead a positive for Arken. That said I don’t think my Arken eP5 is like most as my buddy got an Arken on my recommendation and the image quality on his is noticeably worse, almost as if two completely different glass types were used, so your results may vary. I’m happy with all my MK6’s at this time but if I was just getting into the scope game and had $2500 to spend I’d definitely go with the ATACR line.
I really appreciate your videos. I've been caught in the debate if I should get the Mark 5HD 7-35 as a duel precision & hunting scope. When you compare the normal prices and glass clarity it seems like the ATACR is a better bang for your buck. However, the military discount is higher with Leupold. The Mark 5HD 7-35 w/ PR2 reticle is $1730 as apposed to NF's ATACR 7-35 F1 w/ Mil-XT being $2880. Would you say the Leupold is a better value being $1k cheaper or would you say save your money for the Nightforce?
I'm done with anything Leupold, I have lost zero so many times with a MK5 its ridiclous, and I have several friends that have the same issue. Sold it, went to ATACR all those problems instantly disappeared, much better glass, built like a tank and a warranty they you never have to use. Ran an ATACR in Afghanistan for over a year and we beat the shit out of that thing and it just always worked and held zero perfectly, tracked like a sewing machine. If you want to save money and its not that big of a deal for you to send in your scope for warranty or have it go down in the field Vortex and leupold got you covered!!!
@C_DOES was enjoying the GlassFacts podcast-y video thingy. One thing I gotta ask… 1 rifle, 1 optic, complete shtf self sufficiency scenario, what would it look like and why. I’m at an impasse..I’m caught up with optic durability/longevity Vs glass Vs features (reticles etc acss etc). Are we just auto-piloting shtf on a 4x Acog+rmr?? And a 16” I’m curious about your thoughts man
Honestly best bang for your buck is the buy once cry once situation especially if you r going to shoot prs/ field matches. Save your money and buy a NF 5-25x56. It will track perfectly, is bomb proof, and will stand up to the demand of an individual who is actually using the optic in a capacity that requires use and abuse, not just some bench rest paper puncher. You wont have to upgrade/ worry about tracking issues.
*MK5 is lighter* but what difference does that make *MK5 is shorter* but what difference does that make *MK5 has more magnification* but what difference does that make… etc etc… seems like you’ve got a bias… compare them with the same reticle I think whichever optic you chose the reticle will make the biggest difference
Both great optics. For a Chinese challenger, I'd recommend the new Vortex Strike Eagle 3-18x44 FFP with EBR-7C MRAD reticle. Picked one up for $510 street price. Excellent "Christmas tree" reticle, with illumination. Easy to set zero stop, capped windage turret, etc. Checks all boxes for me. I'm under no illusion that it's of equal quality to either of these scopes, BTW, but great choice for those on a different budget. I have 7-35 and 5-25x Mark 5's also and love them.
Leupold is not very good with reticles, it is very strange because it seems that this is the cheapest element of the system, but they cannot make normal reticles for their sights!
Great vid as always….. love to see a review of the Primary arms GLX 3-16x44 Athena BPR Mil and your thoughts I’ve herd good things but there is not any real reviews on it
How does Nightforce make the greatest scopes yet also design the horrendous Horus reticles? Having used the H-59 (tolerable) and the Tremor (brutal), my God. The MIL-R, MIL-C, MIL-XT are fantastic by comparison. I think the MIL-R is the top of the heap with simple 1/2 mil hashes. I run a lot of scopes with similar patterns but I can live with 2/10s. Either way, I don't think the jury is out on the durability of the Nightforce versus Leupold.
Anyone remember the leupy 6.5-20 that was actually more like a 7-18? Does 3.6-18 actually mean anything or is it really another 4-16 with different numbers on the dial?
If possible, I'd love to see your opinion about the Vector Optics Continental x6 1-6x24 Tactical (SFP) or Viper Continental x8 1-8x24i ED Fiber Tactical
Have you tried out the March FX 1.5-15? Seems to be on par price wise with the ATACR, but on paper has some pretty impressive specs. Also, would love to hear your thoughts on the new much less expensive Leupold mk4hd. I wish there were more compact MVPO options especially under $1,500. PA, Athlon, and Meopta, are the only options that I know of. And I wouldn’t consider the Meopta to be compact.
The nx8 is a fantastic scope. But without locking turrets and reticle options that really take advantage of the magnification range. The nx8 lags behind on a few key areas. That being said. If you don't need Uber toughness and durability. The view through the nx8 (at least the 2.5-20) is So impressive that it'll just leave you in awe. The resolution of the atacr is higher. Your able to pick up finer details. But the nx8 is great if your trying to scan for targets, or want a better sense of situational awareness down range. I don't think you can go wrong with either of them tbh. Just go with what suits your needs
I was looking to get the leupold and after watching the first 7:45 of those videos, I am definitely getting the leupold. It sounds like you are getting paid by Nightforce to say how good the ATACR and to bash leupold. People that know scopes, the atacr lineup is very expensive. For the price difference of the two, leupold is the way to go.
Another awesome video. Is there an email or link we could use to reach out? Having a challenge deciding between two optics, one of which hasnt been reviewed. Would love your thoughts. Cheers.
Im in the industry and am considering the 1-8 vcog vs 1-8 credo. You have been the authority on my scope purchases for a while now, I just wasnt sure how closely the accupower relates to the credo. Any experience with the newer Credo? Thoughts over the VCOG? Aside from bombproof housing, built in mount, and consistent eye relief, im not sure the vcog is worth the price over the credo, but hard to find any comparisons aside from older accupowers. Would love your .02
@@curtismaldonado2723 if you don't wanna adjust the elevation and everything else about the vcog works for you then so that'll. If you wanna build a spr with a 1-8 that you can adjust. The credo/accupower is what I'd choose. As long as you don't mind the weight
Great points. It seems the glass clarity of both are top notch, so I guess it boils down to perceived value of being able to dial and more mount flexibility vs bombproof durability and simplicity. Thanks bud- always great content!
I dont like leupold... They wont sell some soce to civilian and some of the scope are special order from dealer here in canada. And my dealer dont want to order anything like a mark 5 2-10. Anyway...
I can't afford none of these but if I could, I would choose a Vortex 😅. In any case, Awesome. Thanks for your expertise, knowledge and professional presentation. You have no competition.
I love your videos, mad respect for ya. However it seems a little shady that you have never given Leupold a good review. My eyes tell me that my Leupold’s are some of the best scopes I have ever looked through and owned.
The Leupold scopes are good but not great for the money. With the exception of the VX Freedom scopes the Leopoldo scopes are only worth half the price that they asking for. If they dropped their price by 50% there would be almost no need to purchase a scope from anyone else since they provide you with a very lite scope with great glass and great turrets, but sadly they are way overpriced compared to similar scopes.
if theyre only worth half what theyre asking for them, but they'd blow away the competition and you'd buy them over anything else at half their price, doesnt that logic tell you they are worth more than half their price? are you advocating for them to be better than everyone else and not cost more money?
@@jf7393 It’s a good scope at the current price, but it’s not an excellent value. Good is the rival of excellent; they both can’t go exist. If they wanted dominance over the competition and capture more market share, an excellent value proposition would be their strategy. BTW, being better than everyone else requires perfection. And we know that perfection is seeking the ultimate performance without regards to cost. Excellence is how much more you give than you take in payment. As it is, Leupold is quite content with being good enough.
What are your thought on using the 4-16x on a 14.5” AR platform? Would most likely run a red dot on top. Thinking of getting this as opposed to the atcr 1-8
If leupold ever figure out how to put their head out of the past 2 decades they’d DOMINATE But good god they need to figure out how to make a good auto ranging combat Christmas tree like primary arms Like seriously my left nut for a mk5 with better turrets (not a fan of their zero stop and how they set zero), a PA reticle, and good illumination
Hoping the new delta 3.5-21 is the new mark 5 killer for the price. I had the 3.5-18x very disappointed. Image looked like a 1” tube. They just compromised the performance with its size and weight. Glass was 1000 bucks at best. The 2500 illuminated model is laughable at best when it comes to the value and what you actually get.
Hello, thanks for the videos. I'm curious to know what you recommend for a hunting scope with 2x10 - 12 magnification on the lower price range. Also what is your take on lpvo for big game hunting?
I know you’re looking for a reply from C_Does, but I do know that he recommends the athlon scopes for that magnification range at the lower end of price (I don’t remember if it’s the Helos BTR 2-12, specifically). The biggest downside for LPVOs and hunting is that you don’t have adjustable parallax (side focus) on most LPVOs. Hope that helps.
@C_DOES Can you recommend me an optic to mount on an AUG? I'm afraid I can't mount the optic that far back to accommodate anything with a tight eyebox. It'd be used mostly 100-300m, slight astigmatism. Sadly no 4x magnifiers from eotech anymore, looked at prisms, that huge steiner s432, rds&magnifier the sig romeoH4 combo with Juliet 4x, acogs have that tight eyebox again.
@@CDOES It's an A2 base, but I can add an extended rail to 23 slots (7 more). I've seen the PA Prism goes a bit back. I'll look into those mounts. Who makes them?
@@onpsxmember some come in different offsets. Usually it's to push the scope farther from your eye ( in the case of ar's ) but in your case you just have to turn it around so it brings the scope closer to you eye.
ATACR is a better scope. Will hold zero better and tracking is more reliable. I’ve owned both. Sold Leupold kept the NightForce - would buy nightforce again and again and again.
Not comparable. Kinda but not really. It's 1/4 the price and has internals to match the price point. Not a bad scope but it doesn't punch out of its class.
Would you consider the TS-12X from USOptics able to fit this category? Or be interested in doing a review on it? It has no illumination, but it’s light and reasonably priced.
