I think a magnifier isn’t a need on a wide open static range like this, but once you get into the real world with threats dressing even a little like the background and maybe hiding along a tree line, you need it for finding them and identifying as threat or not. I used to have a red dot on my go-to, until I moved out into the country and looked around “there’s no way I’m seeing stuff unmagnified” even at distances I’d typically be fine with the red dot on the range.
It'd be cool to have a camera just focused on the hits that you guys are making. You guys film shooters so damn well, it would be something different to see a little split screen action!
I've been really blessed to live in places where I can take for granted shooting out past 300 yards all the time. I'm kind of taken aback when someone mentions that they don't have a range past 100 yards but then I remember that that's something that applies to most people.
One of my favorite anecdotes came from a guy in the Army in Iraq who was in a gun fight with an insurgent 50 yards away behind cover. Using his 4x ACOG he was able to spot a part of the insurgent’s body that wasn’t behind cover and take a shot on him.
I was about to get a 3x prism optic. A vet talked to me and told me that his rifle in the middle east with a 4x acog had too little magnification at times. I spent the extra for the 5x instead.
@@rilesmattix5217 Did you ask about his engagement distances? Are you planning on engaging a target at such a range with that rifle? Those are the questions you should be asking.
We pushed our MK18’s with EOTECHs out to 400m consistently in Ranger Regiment. At the end of the day, when you understand the mechanics of a gun fight and how stuff actually plays out, your skill and highest level of training matter infinitely more than whatever weapon you happen to be carrying (within reason)
Yep that’s why I always have thought the 1-8 scopes are trash on an ar, same with magnifiers outside of a first strike situation. They just make it take longer to get a shot on target. Watch modern combat footage form ukr, you’ll quickly see what matters most. Targets move about quick and randomly, lots of recoil and adrenaline, and most fights are actually closer range than you’d think (aside from suppressive fire, which can be done with irons anyways). Max id go is a fixed 2 or 3x prism/acog. Otherwise red dot is more than enough.
Seeing better allows you to get better hits. What your teachers were trying to say is magnification wont help your fundamentals. (We were just talking about this in a class over the weekend.)
I don’t think they would, there’s not a problem with existing lowers. Not a lot of room for improvement either. Trex usually only does something if it’s innovative or somehow different from what’s already on the market.
Why??? Lol people who spend a lot on lowers from “cool” brands perplex me… you’re okay with literally just paying for name? Even the billet ones seem like a waste of money ar guys never cease to amaze me
What it is, is the "manufacturer" to converting it into an SBR. The ATF makes you put the "manufacturer" and a new serial number when you convert a rifle to SBR. Notice the tape underneath. It is covering the sbr serial number so people don't do stupid stuff with it.
Magnifiers are good to make lower probability shots at closer ranges, and PID targets before shooting. I see the range increase as a side benefit that's probably not going to come up as often
I still think binos, monos, or a range finder are better. If your target happens to be someone armed, you just pointed your rifle at them and possibly presented yourself as hostile.
@@dillonc7955 I carry 10x binos regardless of my optic, but even still, if you're trying to hit a head at 100 yards because the rest is obscured, being able to 3x the size of it on command is useful.
@@The_PotionSeller being able to 8x the size of it is also useful... hence sights like LPVOs... and you can still mounts a compact holo sight on top or canted.
This is also the beauty of training (aside from dry firing which is great but can't get feedback)...you don't have to use that much ammunition to get better (more accurate, faster splits, etc.)...a couple of shots can tell you a lot in terms of what you need to improve on. If you're intentional, review your groupings & truly analyze what you're doing correctly or incorrectly for said results. Make the necessary adjustments over one or two more runs & that alone is worth a lot in terms of holds, dope, muscle memory & feeling more confident in general. Appreciate these vids Lucas! I realize you folks are incredibly busy over there (bought some gear & superb customer service, products, etc.) but fundamentals are important & more simplistic drills that don't require tons of ammo to conduct are pragmatic & resonate more so w/ the average individual out here🤙
I can hit an 8" plate at 200 yards with just a dot (50/200 zero on a lower 1/3 mount so its just a center hold) with pretty good consistency and ease. That being said i still prefer using my magnifier for longer shots most of the time.
Yep magnifiers are gay. They take WAY longer target acquisition, for higher accuracy, which arguably works against you when a target is moving about randomly. For target shooting ? Sure max is out. For combat ? No thanks. Ukr war has taught many valuable lessons with all the footage released
Good catch, this is slick and smooth. I'll have to think about that because my trainer taught us to close the dust cover on an empty chamber. Thats how I keep it, don't want to mix up close with round in cha,ber (during drills) and closed empty during storage. Still very smooth, again great catch
Center mass. Probably one of the most important things I was taught as grunt. Less likely to miss that mass but more importantly it the most effective way to learn when dealing with funding and a limited budget for rounds with live fire. Dry fire helps too but so does having a good buddy to hold you accountable .
The Primary Arms 6x magnifier that they just came out with is a great option with an Eotech. Ill never go back to a 3x. It allows me to hit easily out to 500 yards and see my impacts.
@@ReticentIndignation I havent used their 3x, but based on photos, the 6x is chunkier. It doesnt feel any larger on the gun, but it is lighter than my holosun 3x, which surprised me. I havent really noticed any negatives so far.
Such results could be expected at a distance of 100 m, although I have some suspicions, I am very curious what will happen at 200 or 300 m, so I can't wait for the next video.
I'm running a 16" .223 Wylde custom build with a Sig Romeo 5 XDR and a Juliet 4 magnifier. I haven't had much time to train at longer distances, but it is zeroed at 50/200. I really need the time to go practice more but work is killing me.
Romeo 5 XDR is a dope little sight bro, and the Juliet is a 3X magnifier like any other so don't let anyone try to talk you down because they will. Ease into friend, just make time where you can and realize even doing that, you're doing 10X more than your average person.
My go to rifle is a 13.9 with an ACOG and RMR mounted on top. Usually practice on small steel plates from 100-400 yards at the range and it’s paid dividends when shooting 2 Gun matches. I used to run foregrips on the handguard but not anymore since it interferes when I’m shooting off a barricade.
@@reikia it’s a good setup for when I’m shooting the local 2 Gun match cause we’re shooting anywhere from 10-500 yards with rifles. I just couldn’t mesh with a LPVO so I went with the ACOG instead and it’s worked great for me.
Magnification (especially for the older ones among us with less than perfect vision) is key to differentiate between a threat and a no shoot, e.g. is he holding a gun or a phone in his hands?
What's your opinion on the cHeApEr alternative to the ACOG (Primary Arms SLx 3x)? Worth it, or not durable enough for any serious (wartime/SHTF/etc.) use case? I'm asking since sometimes you can get still 80% of the quality but for 1/3 the price. And 80% of ACOG durability is fine IMO. Thx🙂
You pretty much summed it up, its 80% as good as an acog while being 1/4 the price. Give it another generation or 2 and I think they'll match or exceed acog. Trijicon needs to adapt or they'll be pushed out of the market
@@The_PotionSellerthey will never beat acogs at the price they are at. Glass quality and design on the acog are just better. They also arent the same thing. They are both prisms, but acogs give you a massive sight picture, the pa micros dont, even though they have similar on paper fov. They are a decent optic if thats your price range, but it will never be just as good or better than an optic with super high end glass, an extremely rugged design and thats not limited to a “micro” size optic. Source: I own a PA 3x micro and a friend owns an acog, and ive used both side by side. World of difference.
W/o watching. Magnifiers aren't necessary at that range in order to hit your target reliably and accurately. However, they are a valuable tool for better identifying your target which is incredibly important in "non range" situations. What did I miss?
@T-Rexarms i would like to see you guys shooting a SIG 550 or Sturmgewehr 90 from the Swiss Army because we are shooting this Thing at the 300 Meter range
I completely agree . I used open sights for decades. My grandfather showed me how to at a very young age. When I got good enough to hit a beer can at 100 yds w/ a Winchester model 255, a lever action .22 WMR, he gave it to me. I was 8. Now Im 65, and my vision is not so good. . Now I were glasses, and use magnified optics on everything . Way easier on my eyes, and more fun, really.
Fr I tried to zero a red dot at 50 yards without magnification and I could barely see the dot on the paper even with my thick glasses but in the end I couldn’t zero it and waited until I got my 3x magnification. 😂😂
At first I thought all the shorty lengths were pointless until I build a 12.5”. I’m running an MRO and hit no problem even out to ~400 on torso sized steel. Knowing your DOPE.. interesting how many people never actually verify data or have crappy zeros.
I live in Charlotte and I am a member at a range that has 300 yards and “combat range” (some shooting and moving” I feel blessed that I am able to train out to 300 twice a week
I really want to stick with a simple 1x micro prism on a 14.5 carbine, but i keep wondering if magnification is needed... its not but would be nice sometimes.
For practical defensive reasons, your effective range is only as far as you can properly ID where that bullet will impact. Using a rifle with no magnification is not much different from using a handgun with a faster projectile. Not having magnification on a platform that can mount it, and can be terminally effective out to ranges magnification enables, is a waste to me. I already have 1x on my handgun. May as well have options on the rifle.
@@mtnbound2764 The next thing to consider would be a simple scenario; imagine the target is across the street. 2-4 lanes of traffic, behind a parked vehicle. Only their leg/shoulder/head may be exposed. You think you can hit with a handgun, and no magnification? This is a far more realistic scenario than hitting a target 300+ yards away outside of an outdoor range. The scenario i made up here is less than 50 yards, and some magnification can still make the difference when it comes to low profile targets due to a person's instinct to find cover. If you're only shooting plates at a range, that won't matter much.
@@mghegotagunthere is a big difference between a handgun and a rifle, even if they both have irons, i can make accurate hits much farther with a rifle. with my rifle and the 1x prism, its quite accurate out to 2-300 yards, plus, sometimes, if a target is that far away or that hard to hit, it may not be the shot to take. I understand the capability of say an LPVO, i have one, i just really dont like the weight and how it changes the feel of the rifle overall. I know that magnifiers are an option, but i dont like the flip to side or center set ups for them. the ELCAN specter 1-4 prism is the closest thing to what i want, but its still large, heavy and expensive.
Can you talk to the reason for putting magnifiers as close as possible to the optic or not and maybe running it farther back to assist with eye relief issues.
@T.REX ARMS Can we get some instruction on the proper way to shoot a rifle around the left hand side of cover as a right handed shooter while using the cover as efficiently as possible please? Preferably without shooting the rifle left handed or switching shoulders, both which take more training than most civilians are going to do.
Magnifiers are great when you need to shoot past 300 yards. Anything other than that you dont really need one, unless your vision isnt great or youre unsure of PID on your target. Either way, just get one.
Great 👌. I like your videos and drills 💪✌️. Here in the Czech Republic, the problem is that all equipment, weapons and accessories are once as expensive as you are in the USA. So a super quality rifle that costs $2,000 here costs $4,000 here... A good optic that costs 400-500 dollars for you and 1000 dollars for us... for example, the Eotech you have on your rifle costs 1300 dollars here 🤦🤦 and the average salary here is 1500-2000 dollars. It's terrible... with us, people will think twice about buying Daniel Defence, BCM or S&W, Ruger, etc...
@@alainriccaldi9003 Hello. These are the same prices as here 🤮 eotech 1000-1100 dollars. Unfortunately, even our CZ Bren costs 3000 euros here 🤦. Originally, I wanted one too...but finally the AR-15 convinced me
Which is more efficient, LPVO with piggyback RD or RD w/ magnifier? I see most comparisons on RU-vid are only LPVO vs RD w/ magnification. However, that's not the best set up for a LPVO. Would be cool to see a run and gun
This issue isn't necessarily going to a range that has 100 meter targets; but rather going to a range that allows you to actually move and shoot. The range I go to actually goes out to 200 m/yds but you have to be behind a "firing line" and can't do drills involving moving to different positions.
I was LPVO guy for a lot of years. I no longer use LPVO on my Go too rigs . EXPS3 With Micro 3x is all I need 300Y and in on reduced C Zone target . I have 0 issues hitting targets from 100 - 300 in 2Gun Match setting with this combo . My other go too rig is TA31CH-G ACOG With Top Mounted RMR . I'm GTG with this Rig 500Y and in... I run 50Y Zero on my EXPS3 and TA31 ACOG . I know all my holds and BDC Lines never line up perfectly anyways
As another Tavor user, I’ve always wondered, does the magnifier off to the side get hit by the brass? I never actually had the magnifier to mount on board but wondered if that was a risk. My Tavor is currently using an LPVO but I’m always interested in learning the options and rediscovering what works best for me.
@@timunderbakke8756 To the best of my knowledge no. Plus it would have to be very underpowered ammo for it to eject rearward. Most normal 223 will eject at 9 o’clock, 556 will eject 10-11 o’clock. Remember it’s ejecting on the left side because of its left handed configuration
Where at in PA are you? I'm in the Waynesboro / Chambersburg area and I have a few good spots to go to, one of which has tons of different metal targets.
Brandon shooting a T.Rex etched lower? curious if this is just something thats done to the armory guns or if this is a surprise mouse-ka-tool for later?
IF you want a noob shooter, I could transfer job locations, sell car parts as main job, get some T.Rex training. Lucas and gang, keep up the good work.
I use a 100 yrd zero on IRONS & Any optic, being able to push your equipment even further & further I’m waiting on more $ to lay out 300-500 yard steel targets. I typically try to buy steel the size as body armor plates smaller target & if you can hit that repeatedly that’s smaller margin of error.
you need to get a review video out on the geissele super duty's possibly compared to the bcm and the ddm4v7 waiting for you to post one on the geissele before I pull the trigger on buying one
I have an idea..... How about instead of taking off a very useful accessory like the hand stop, just position the magwell against the barricade instead of the hand stop..... Or grab the hand stop like you would a vertical foregrip, but leave the meat of your hand below the bottom of the hand stop.
What would you recommend for a range taht lets yous you go from 25-300m but only from a bench? Thats what i have locally and its great for working on marksmenship but not as great for drills like this? I do also airsoft so i know how to move arounf cover half decently but its still not the same as using a real rifle
The Juliet 5x micro magnifier works awesome paired with a Romeo 5 XDR green dot on my AR. It's inexpensive, sturdy, the weight isn't bad and the eye relief is tolerable. I feel like any magnification past that would be better suited using a scope instead.
Handstop/VFG and purpose made barricade stops are great for barricades and manmade structures when you work around them, in fact they make it stupid easy to control recoil, but are less than ideal for anything other than 90 degree angles. AFG's are piss-poor for shooting off barricades altogether. So you just need to decide whether or not the additional control over the weapon is worth more than ease of use on barricades. Same story for bipods. I found that a magnifier is worth having, you don't necessarily need to keep it on your rifle, you can carry it in a pouch/pocket and use it as a monocular when you don't want to point a weapon at something, and you can get PID at greater distances with some magnification. It's worth having, even if you aren't using it as intended.
I like my BCM KAG angled grip. It's got a little tab that comes off the bottom to hook your fingers in or press into a barricade/rest. But I'm also inexperienced with other AFG's.
Surprised to see these guys shooting with the butt stock in the shoulder pocket. The More modern position keeps the stock much higher allowing for a far more natural head position and their times show this.
It doesn't matter who you are, any shot on any target at any distance will have some margin of error that could result in a miss. Magnification will reduce that margin of error and the chance for a miss. If you can ring the gong every time at 100 m, awesome. Magnification will amplify your skill. Of course, there is a point where some magnification power is actually a hinderance at some distance. PID and shot placement become a problem when you can't distinguish between green forest and green textile because your sight picture is out of focus or you can count the bacteria on some dude's sleeve.
Hey why does your shooting bubby close the dust cover after shoots. I don't know if anyone else noticed this. Is it a training thing or keeping trash out of the rifle. Let me know,he puts it on safe and the same hand movement closes the dust cover. Where did he get that from.😂
