Definitely a fan of the super-firing turret layout scheme above and below. Basically a post-HMS Dreadnought battleship but with the realization that you can put weaponry down below! If anyone told me that a warship had over 40 railguns in give or take 7 turrets I would be sweating bullets! Unrelated note: The railgun fire reminds me of the 3D Captain Harlock movie which is a nice touch.
the abysmal performance of the ship against nearly unarmed targets just shows the importance of proper fire control systems. it doesnt matter how big your guns are if they cant hit proper targets and miss ideal targets half the time.
To be fair, in an actual combat scenario, you're going to be rolling the ship to line them up. I'd say you're also looking at a minimum of 8 crew for this ship, one for each turret and a pilot. With full player control, that ship would be a monster. I could see a nice retrofit to this would be moving that "Comms Array" and forward facing artillery cannon array, to make room for a decent sized fighter bay. Either AI fighters or fully crewed ones. Maybe even a some larger missiles that you can fire on the move.
I can see this being an absolute monster if you have a player independently controlling each turret. Would be tempted to try and Retrofit the front Comms Array into a fighter bay or larger missile bay.
Multi crewing a ship in SE is defiantly a challenge and the idea of making a fighter bay at the front is a great idea perhaps the creator could make a carrier variant.
@@shoyahaaruniI mean, I was also bringing it up because, even if you set the AI to target the largest thing, you have 7 turrets, each with a mass amount of railguns. If you have a player controlling each turret, then they can each target a different ship. The combat effectiveness of the ship increases dramatically if, instead of only being able to fire at one or two things at a time, the ship can instead independently target seven different capital ships at once.
Perhaps, but I think it would work better if the ship had more small guns and/or an escort of lighter ships to deal with fighters and drones. Big guns for big enemies, small guns for small enemies.
Even so, thats a lot of targets for such a slow reload. It would have likely fared far better if it had assault cannons at least, or ideally autocannons
@@themutesiren5542 The defense AI block is wicked easy to set up for getting the turrets and custom turret controllers to engage at max range. The process is 1. Build Defense AI Block. 2. Turn Defense Block AI On. 3. Win.
It is unfortunate that the big railgun turrets seem to miss so much. Part of it is that they have not depression (i.e. aiming downward), so there is a horizontal blindspot right where you would assume would be ideal for broadsides. Worse they try to shoot anyway. Maybe the turret controllers are not set up properly, or maybe it is the camera and the guns are too far apart, or maybe Keen just never tested the turret controller with guns that big. Though if I had to guess, something about the vertical rotor or hinge allows the turret controller to think the gun is depressed when it is not.
The builder can set a maximum allowable deviation from the target point for firing, and I assume the issue is that this is left at the default value of 5 degrees, so they will fire even if the target is a full 5 degrees below their limit!
If I recall correctly, the ship has a "main battery" of static artillery cannons facing forward. That is what you should be using when attacking something directly in front.
Cool, the look is really great but if the guns don't even hit the target the ship is pretty much useless. Nevertheless, well made, the ship can certainly be used as a decoration for a space doc or something similar. God job
I don't see Homeworld, but definitely BG and many others. For Homeworld, I think this is way too detailed and not enough large and simple geometric shapes, possibly excluding the area around the narrow section between the engines and main body.
With all these space battles shooting ordinance everywhere and space being infinite id love to see a game that your species just got into the space age like us. So a city is annihilated by an errant nuke or rail gun rounds that have been traveling through space for decades so you build your species up get into space find old space debris, ships, satellites, etc from other species and build your space fleet to take the fight to them!
You can fix the targeting system going off when you exit by simply adding an AI-Combat block, setting the interval to 5 seconds and enjoying the lightshow.
A ship that size, it would be interesting to try a more “low tech” approach, and just mount a ton of broadside railguns and aim them manually by rolling and yawing the ship. You could use either timers or event controllers to stagger the fire for greater effect. Oh, and large railgun turrets should not bother targeting small grids - that’s just a waste of ammo and time for recharge.
I think there is a way to improve the aiming algorithm. As we can get the position of the target. We can get their velocity v and acceleration a. Then we can use formula 1/2at^2+vt to calculate the position of target after some time. The speed of bullet is also metter. We can then calculate the intercept point and aim to that point.
Love the ship, but some glaring issues. The main railgun cannons definitely do not have enough depression, and as we saw with the carrier can be easily distracted by too many targets. The phalanx turret that I saw was really cool, but has absolutely atrocious view from where it was at, and I assume other phalanx are similarly placed. Those should be placed in areas that are underdefended or has a large view as to properly intercept missiles and fighters. But overall I love the ship, those issues can easily be ironed out and will make it perfect.
It could use the smaller cannons to intercept drones and smaller ships, improve the aiming system of the energy cannons and try to increase the firing distance and the targeting system because they are unable to lock onto the enemy ship
Hit one of my pet peeves in the first few seconds. Decimate means reduce by 10%. The Romans decimated legions to make them more effective (I'm not sure it worked) not to make them less so.
Yeah, too much artillery with bad firearchs, almost 0 point-defence, and inadequate protection. Can be easily destroyed by 1 well designed torpedo which will easily pass through that point-defence
Is there a way to set individual turrets or target settings to target specific sizes of ship material? For example, set it so that the Railgun Turrets exclusively target large ship parts, while the artillery targets small ship parts? I haven't played much Space Engineers myself, not to mention in years, so I have no idea, but such a feature would help in making sure the Railguns target the Carrier and not the small fighters drifting off the ship!
Yes. Each turret/custom controller can be set for a diverse range of targets, including large or small grid, weapons, propulsion, control blocks etc. They can also be given a setting for AI engagement range. In the case of this ship, I think I would set the railgun turrets for large grid, control blocks. The artillery turrets would go for large grid weapons and propulsion, and the gatlings would be set for small grid and missiles. This ship would probably still need a screen of lighter ships to help out with incoming fighters and drones, but I think the above settings would create a layered defence and useful fire priorities.
@@patrikhjorth3291 You are correct with the weapons/propulsion subsystem target, but the third is actually power systems, such as batteries and reactors
It does struggle against ships with the shield mod. It just doesn't do enough damage fast enough to overwhelm the shields. I built a destroyer and parked it at 500 meters just to test things. It took about 20 minutes but I destroyed this ship while sustaining no damage. Now the player built missiles would most likely wipe my ship out but obviously AI can't control those. Plus to be fair I run the exploding reactors and exploding jump drive mods so I was able to cause a chain reaction that crippled this monster.
Thats the trouble with SE ship designs. What is fantastic in one server is utter nonsense in another. Take Meta bricks, fantastic unless Railguns are removed or better weapons are added by mods.
I have had a terrible time getting the AI blocks to work correctly... I desperately want to have decoy torpedo's circle a target at 300m. It should be the ultimate electronic warfare solution for SE.
Probably easier just to use them as deployable flares to temporarily distract targeting away from your Ship rather then trying to get them to orbit continuously.
Maybe I can help. Can you tell me your exact configuration? At a guess, id suggest you give your decoy torp a single gattling gun and an offensive AI block set to orbit. Add that gattling to the AI blocks weapons.
The suicide drones and missiles kinda feel underwhelming. You see a whole swarm of them hit a target and there's kinda not much damage going on. Almost don't need point defense to deal with them.
SE has this problem of the projectiles not loading properly when there are too many stuff being shot at the same time. Is this a problem with my rig or with the game itself?
Naval destroyer in SPACE!! Pretty, but also impractical. Firepower is great, but only if you can actually hit the target. Banks of AI-controlled, large grid railguns eat a lot of energy, have an abysmal rate of fire, and can't consistently hit a stationary target. The missile system shows some promise. Maybe streamline the launching process, and increase the warhead count and dispersal area if possible, and I think you'd have a real killer.
Destroyer??? That's a Battleship or Dreadnought LMAO. The Naval Destroyer concept in SE works fine since destroyer is the ship that launches torpedoes. In SE with proper teamplay you can do that staying far out of range of all enemy weapons and damage ships for "free". Also SE allow destroyer to "reload" torpedoes by reassembling them - feature which destroyers couldn't afford in real life at all. Unlike torpedo bombers (strike craft), destroyers in SE are large grid ships that're able to Warp and carry enough resourses to reassemble their torpedoes. About the ship in the video: The Battleship/Dreadnought concept works fine in SE if you build it properly, make a good fire control script and have a proper FCO in your clan which can use it. Also the ship must have adequate point-defence in a combination of dual purpose custom assault cannon turrets (also testing concept with small grid custom railgun turrets as both anti-ship and anti-drone ones), many custom autocannon turrets and many custom gatling turrets (for much smaller battleship with 6 twin custom railgun turrets and 8 twin custom artillery turrets (for kiting) there must be 12 twin custom assault cannon turrets and at least 16 quad custom autocannon turrets, in order to give adequate protection from torpedoes and strike craft). Also torpedoes must be placed on rear in order to be able to launch them when kiting. But the ship role would be limited to tanking some damage in large battle, damage enemy capital ships to some degree and disengage - winning some time and letting your cruisers and destroyers take good positions to launch torpedoes to damaged capital ships with weakened point-defence. Ideally torpedoes should come from multiple directions in this case so even undamaged point-defence will have problems with shooting torps down. Overall properly built Dreadnought of this concept would be practical and useful in SE, but it's role would be limited to clan vs clan battles
I just like how this game is actually Lego for an adult, and you can intertain yourself for the rest of the time. But, SE actually need new weapon sistem like in From the Depths, i really hope that SE2 will much better in this
so two medium fast ships, one from the top and one from the botom can take out this monster easy ;D, of humans want to enter onto space combat they first need to think in 3D
How is anything in space out of range? There is no gravity to drag projectiles off course, or friction to slow the projectile down. A railgun projectile in space should reach a few hundred miles in seconds.
whoever built that ship put a lot of work into it, without realizing how problematic turret controllers really are, i believe there is a youtuber who has made a script that fixes the issue turrets firing too early.
In the sci fi series, the Expanse, rainguns are used at relatively close ranges because of the time to reach the target. An enemy ship at long ranges has far more time to dodge the shot.
People put to much stock into zero g expanding combat range the amount of people who write stories with space battles where they're engaging at ludicrous ranges never seem to take into account that even with ai targeting and near light speed projectiles the distances they keep saying the fights take place over means dozens of seconds or even minutes of travel time for the projectiles meaning they can be easily dodged even with simple random course changing manoeuvres.
@@Kakarot64. Exactly. And Railguns don’t even come close to light speed. The art of ships lobbing metal at each other has existed since the first cannon, and will continue on past the railgun. However, with advancements in technology, it becomes easier to dodge or even negate “dumb-fire” projectiles. That does not mean they are no longer useful, mind you. They still pack a punch! But range comes into factor a lot more than one thinks even with railguns or even laser systems. In fact lasers would have even more restrictions on range due to the fact the highly energized particles dissipate over distance. Smart-Fire weapons (missiles and guided torpedoes) also have range based on their fuel consumption. They are vastly harder to dodge without counters, but even they can be negated in some way. For every offense there is defense, all dependent upon the distance of the target and available firepower.
Weapons are weak and there is not enough PDC's. No decoys at all and no custom missile/drone defences. You can use drones as point defence, with gatling and missile turrets (important that they not be custom turrets and they perform badly). Enough and its hard for this type of missile spam to hit the ship. Its more effective as they can move about fast. Also you can have drones or missiles that will ram close in drones or missiles. Decoy drones draw fire away from the ship. Also there should be more artillery turrets as they are really good overall. Putting the railguns in one big turret makes them less useful because it takes forever for them to target small ships and drones. The custom missiles on this ship are next to useless.
True, but are they mutually exclusive? I'm currently designing a fixed rail gun ship with rail gun turrets. It's not finished so I can't say it works. But my theory is that the turrets allow me to maintain pressure while dodging or engaging multiple ships (Which is the norm for 1v1s in SE)
Your top railguns where flat to the ship the entire time so I don't think they had a good line of sight when they did fire it was most likely them barely getting a glimpse of a tower or antenna sticking up from the man body. canting the ship slightly would likely given you better angles of fire it would also allow you to stagger fire by changing the attack angle allowing say the top and then the bottom railguns to fire.
Its a cool ship but the guns lack depression, some of the arty turrets have things blocking LOS, and a ton of assault cannons which could easily be made arty turrets. Its a huge glass cannon due to lack of armor, esp the missile bay, 1 railgun or arty shot hits that missile bay with 1 layer of light armor, yikes.
I dont really like these turrets. They appear to not have much by way of depression angles which makes convergence on the target impossible when directly side-on. Bit of a waste in my book
That is a result of poor configuration. Accuracy, stability, turn speed and Targetting can all be greately improved. From what I've seen, most designs aren't optimised and it makes a very big difference.
Крайне не эффективно, ведь по сути корабли подобного типа всегда имеют прикрытие и никогда одни не летают, их пушки предназначены больше для уничтожения станции,других кораблей подобного класса и орбитальных ударов
@@LastStandGamers the classic survival experience I love building but the raids and everything makes it so much more magical for me sadly i can never find a server that does that or isn’t so laggy, I decided to take a break and let it developed a bit after the war update
Wow, not only do you basically hVe to be hugging the unit to establish a lock but than somehow, being practically withing shouting distance and with no obstructions, the rail guns are constantly missing the target? I mean we have better hit ratio launching missles beyound visual range and hitting other missles that are flying through the air. This is trash. How did these guys ever even develop space travel with that failure rate. Miserable
Nah, that's just you don't make sense, as it's clearly visible that railguns were mistakenly set to target everything instead of targetting large grids only. Add to this inadequate railgun turrets depression angle and almost 0 point defense. If you fix that - that'll be a practical ship, but still for clans only. The most viable Naval design in SE is destroyer (the ship that launches torpedoes. Look at something like Fletcher class). Unlike small grid fighters, those large grid ships are able to use jump drive, carry enough resourses to travel long distances, and are also able to quickly reassemble their torpedoes. A well designed torpedo in SE is able to heavily damage or even destroy a capital ship, as well as travel large distances which can't be reached by other weapons. My longest torpedo hit in SE was hit to enemy clan's battleship at around 15km. It took torpedo around 2 minutes and 47 seconds to travel at that range (target was moving to the left from me, so torpedo traveled more than 15 km as it was adjusting to target's velocity, so it traveled not in a straight line). Their battleship was departing from safezone base to intercept our cruiser and was almost instantly taken out of action receiving heavy damage and allowing our cruiser to disengage😂
@@The_White_Warlord I'm not talking about problems pointed out in the video. Even if fixed, this ship would be subpar to a ship designed with 3D combat in mind.
@@pietroroberto6114 What exactly? Main battery layout seems pretty good. Its probably not gonna fair to well against an opponent attack at 70 up/downward angle, but that is a bit down to limitations in SE. You wont be able to build large grid railgun turrets, that behave like ball turrets, unless they are build so fragile that they get decapicated at first hit. Even the turrets of this BB will be decapicated if they are hit by slightly more then 100 small grid assault cannons. Profile seems also to be a good compramise. Its smallest side is the side there its main propulsion is. Main Battery has a good firing arc, tho there some deadspots that have to be compansated by rolling. Amor layout seems pretty bad, since its pretty thin and has basicly no compartmentalization. However, I dont see how nautical design influences are atfault for that.
@@wargearinternational7679 Even though Cosmoteer is a 2D game, it brilliantly shows how these nautical designs are useless in space. They get obliterated with ease. Nautical designs have many major flaws: 1. Underutilization of engines results in small speed. There are many engines in this design that are used only for maneuvering and not for speed. 2. All of it's major weapons (rail guns) are constantly exposed to enemy even though they do not provide constant fire. Sure you could roll this ship to take hits into it's belly but that's vastly inferior to not taking hits at all due to being out of range. 3. Since it has very little backward thrust (much less than other ships would have forward) all of it's hull is exposed to enemy fire. That means that armor is necessary on entire surface. That increases cost and decreases speed. What I think about is a cone shaped ship that has engines on a ring of cone's base. Armor and point defense (or more engines) would be placed on the sides of the cone up to the tip. Obviously engines would be pointed towards the enemy (to the tip of the cone). In this design we could fit a lot more engines than in a nautical one so this ship would be much faster. Thanks to it's speed it would be able to stay outside enemy railguns. When chased it would do a 3D version of railfanning maneuver to fire it's railguns located behind it's engines or just decrease it's speed to get in range while extending railguns above engines. The rest of space behind the cone pointed at the enemy could house rocket or drone launchers. That's the basic kiter design and tactic. Edit: This design would have most of it's armor constantly pointed towards the enemy to tank damage during firing sequence. You could put rail guns on turrets like these but I would add an elevator that would extend the turret over engines.
@@Auraimperialisum... In vacuum you have no big explosions like on atmosphere, projectile almost no looses his speed due to air resistance, and other reasons, if you 12+- y.o. it's ok, buy if you 16+... Sorry, you stupid...
Problems: Too few railguns, too exposed, ship has no armor around critical components, and it's large grid. Small grid blocks have 6.6x as much health as equivalent large grid blocks. This thing wouldn't survive a single assault.
Honestly with the top guns it'd probably be better if they're setup like an ISD from star wars where you have small sections of turrets across the body, as for the lower Honestly just switching them to rockets would probably be more effective. Also back to surface weapons with the turrets it would be a bad idea if there was mini chaingun nest areas so if enemies use rockets back they could shoot them down.
This feels more like a seige ship then a ship of the line. The idea is you park just in railgun range and shell the base while launching missles at anything that tries to respond.
tbh Ship of the Lines / Battleships were not actually designed to go 'Head to Head' vs any other Ship. Its primary purpose was to provide Bombardment Support to level out an area. The entire concept of a Battleship is to provide long range bombardments. This is something many people misconcept about the Battleship. The Dreadnaught on the otherhand, Its purpose was to essentially be a Be all End all Naval Vessel, however was horrible in practice and design because of its lack of agility and lack of overall performance which birthed the concept of the Battleship. Your Cruisers/Destroyers/Submarines were the primary Naval Supremacy before Carriers. and the Only reason a Carrier overtook that Supremacy was because of the Fighters aboard her being able to be versatile for every naval situation. #TheMoreYouKnow...
@@noxiousvex The dreadnaught was a battleship. The difference was that older battleships tried to have every gun for every situation while the dreadnaught was solely focused on killing other battleships while also being faster than any other battleship. Yes the dreadnaught became outdated during the ensuing arms race as nations created better and better ships, but it still revolutionized naval warfare as we knew it. And since it primarily focused on big long range guns the dreadnaught was more effective at long range bombardment than its predecessors.
Well that's officially the scariest thing my carrier has faced off against now lol. If you had players targeting the railguns I think it would have been over pretty quick. The blast radius of all the rail turrets combined is larger than the entire side of the carrier. That said the Courser can be quite quick in space when it wants to be as it has 30 large Ions on the bottom. If you want to use it for testing again later on I would recommend downloading it again as the latest version has AI properly implemented. You can scramble all 30 fighters with one button press or launch them individually from the control bars on the front cockpit.
The way this game functions, it really seems that AI Drones/missiles/torpedoes are the way to go. Ironically the powerful guns in this game are better suited as a spinal mount on a drone, not in a turret. So I think for SE your design is more practical.
