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I'm still working on getting multiple episodes of BSG back up, and this one will probably end up getting blocked as well because that's my luck, but while it's here enjoy! xxx
@@CarmenYoungApparently Universal doesn’t understand that people spreading the word actually HELPS the popularity of the show. They’re engaged in backward thinking.
One detail I love about this episode: Head Six often appears whenever Baltar is in trouble, and needs advise to solve a problem. She is usually manipulating him, and he seems to have little or no control over her. But here, when they first see Pegasus-Six, Baltar asks Head-Six for a time alone with the Cylon woman, and strangely Head-Six complies (and disappears) -as if showing respect for Baltar’s wish. It may be the first time we see her respect and obey his will.
Space is vast, but the Pegasus was tracking the Cylons, and the Cylons were tracking the Galactica. Their movements were not random. Besides, all of this has happened before. 🙂
Cain didn't take the side of Thorne / bald guy, he was doing the job he was ordered to by Cain. *Yeah yeah, I know the whole "just following orders thing" doesn't hold up under scrutiny, but it's why Cain did what she did. She was entirely behind all of it.
Cain is a Sadist who saw a thing she could let her crew do whatever they wanted. I’m not sure any court without Adama would side with Tyrol and Helo over Cain for protecting a genocidal robot.
Oh, and a lot of questions about why Cain is the way she is and does what she does are answered in the near future. And even more about that is provided later with another in-series movie called Razor (it happens during the same timeframe as events you are seeing now, but there are VERY good reasons to wait and watch it in release order because it will spoil some things if you see it too early). It doesn't *justify* her by any means, but it does help you understand that she isn't just a cardboard-cutout, mustache twirling evil person. She, like the other characters in the show, is complex.
War is never pretty or fair. It brings the best and worst out of people. That includes those leaders in charge. Prisoners of war have been tortured and the "R" word since the dawn of time. Battlestar Galactica just keeps it real.
I mean, I don't think she said that the show wasn't keeping it real, she was just rightfully condemning it. Yes, abuse of prisoners has always happened, but there's a reason it is a war crime, because we recognize that it is wrong. I totally agree that its good that BSG shows the ugly reality, but I also think that you'd have to be demented not to feel disgusted by seeing it.
“Pegasus” is an episode and story arch that is based on a couple of episodes of the original 1978 series. One significant difference is that in the original series Cain was a man (played by veteran actor Loyd Bridges). Cain was also of equal rank as Adama (not a superior officer), so the interaction between them was totally different.
While they were both Commanders in the original, there was a rule about who was in charge when two battlestars met away from command. I don't remember what the rule was, but according to it, Adama was the superior officer. In an earlier video, you thought about watching a few episodes of the original series, and I left a comment recommending the two-part episode "Living Legend". "Pegasus" is largely based on the general storyline of that original episode, but with significant differences. Most notably, there is nothing done by the Pegasus crew in the original series that is as evil as what you saw in this episode. I would still recommend watching that original series two-parter at some point.
@@jeremykraenzlein5975 I think you're right, Lorne Greene's commander was one of the highest ranked, if not the highest ranked military officer in the colonial fleet. Both him and Tigh wore blue uniforms too, whereas Lloyd Bridges as cain wore a more elaborate version of what you see the Viper pilots wearing.
You nailed it when you said if he did that to Six and (was about to do it to) Sharon he most likely either has done it to "real" women, or always wanted to and has now found an "excuse" to get away with it. The thing is, if you wouldn't do it to a human, if you find it disgusting and heinous (as everyone should obvs) you would feel horrible (and certainly wouldn't enjoy it) if you were ordered to do that to a "thing" that even remotely looks like a person. Sadly, it is very realistic how they did it because it does happen a lot to war prisoners (and even just regular prisoners) even though it's a war crime... so yeah the world is fucked up I will always stand by my opinion that BSG is a war series simply set in space and between humans a non-humans, not just a sci-fi pew pew show. The themes of ethics, of military and civilian leadership butting heads in a time of war, of torture, of democracy in a time of war, etc. it's all very grounded in realism even though it's in a sci-fi atmosphere. I mean, Mary and Eddie (Roslin and Adama) even went to speak about it at the UN so... (sorry for the long comment, love your analysis :D)
They made a movie about the Pegasus journey and admiral Cains backstory, called 'Battlestar Galactica: Razor' it fits best after Season 2 Episode 17 'The Captain's Hand'
Chronologically it would definitely be after "The Captain's Hand" (episode 17), and before "Lay Down Your Burdens, part 1" (episode 19). It is unclear if it is before, during, or after "Downloaded" (episode 18). While it could be watched at that point in the story without spoiling much, I would agree with the recommendation of the show's creators, and continue to watch them in the order aired. That would put "Razor" between seasons 3 and 4. There are things in it which will go over your head if you haven't seen season three yet, which help set the stage for season 4.
Cain felt her mission was to make war on the Cylons. To make them pay for destroying the Colonies. If you remember, in the mini series, Adama felt the same way. Fornately he had Roslin as a counterbalance. Cain was at the Scorpion Shipyards when the Cylons attacked. She lost 700 of her men. But several Battlestars were in space dock there along with the Pegasus. They were destroyed with full crews of thousands. By shear luck and guile she got the Pegasus out of there. Cain feels that she should avenge the Colonies and her men. She is no hack. She was fast tracked into that Command. She is obviously a brilliant tactician as she has been waging an offensive campaign against the Cylons by herself for a year.
Cain was entirely too emotional to be successful in the long run in the "war" against the cylons. On a strategic level, the decision to run by Adama and Roslin was the only way to ensure not loosing (ie. humanity dying out). On a tactical level, the decision to go through with an attack against overwhelming numbers, makes it a game of attrition, which the smaller side of a conflict will always loose in the long run. Regardless of how good at tactics she might have been. Had the roles been reverse. Adama the admiral and Cain the commander of a battlestar, then they would have been a force to be reckoned with. :)
There was a 15th anniversary reunion during the initial pandemic featuring the “younger” cast members, and it had a lot of great conversations. At one point someone asked Grace Park (Boomer) how she felt about the “assault” scene - which she pointedly said “you mean the r*pe scene” - and she was very adamant about it and the importance of it, because it’s something that happens to a frighteningly large amount of women, and it should be depicted honestly so people could face it. Given how thorough and vehement she was in the response, it seems she gets asked about it a lot. Also, for a bit of levity, the actor kept apologizing and being sensitive to her needs throughout, but she wanted authenticity and pushed him to go harder 😂
I remember hearing that at the time, as people were discussing how much of that they could actually air, Grace Park got angry with those who wanted to tone it down. She pointed out that unfortunately, r*pe is part of the human experience, and therefore something that needs to be addressed in shows like this that aim to so honestly look at the human condition.
It's been awhile but I'm 95% sure that the way it aired it was sexual assault / attempted rape. It's only in the extended version that it's very clearly rape.
@@LMarti13 Your memory is correct. In the televised version, Galen Tyrol and Helo arrive in the nick of time to stop Thorne from r*ping her. But according to Grace Park, the extended version is cannon, and she played the character accordingly in subsequent episodes.
To quote a great author... Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind-bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to Space!
Glad you were able to watch the extended cut of this episode. I don't remember most of which scenes were cut from the original to save time, except that the Pegasus crew releasing supplies to Galactica (but not so much the civilian fleet) was largely cut out. In particular, the scene where Gaeta asks if there is any p*rn in the data download from Pegasus is one that I remember was new the first time I saw the extended version. Regarding the assault scene, the televised version removed the shot where Lt. Thorne is in the process of r*ping Sharon as Helo and Galen Tyrol rush in, and they re-order the other shots a bit. As a result, if you watch just the televised version, Helo and Tyrol arrive in the nick of time to prevent the actual r*pe from happening. This is the change in storyline I referred to in a comment on a previous video. Sharon actress Grace Park has since said that as far as she is concerned, the "Extended" version is what actually happened, and that opinion has affected how she played that copy of Sharon in future episodes.
Actually I just remembered another scene that was "new" to me when I first saw the extended version, right at the beginning where Kara is trying to convince Adama and Roslin to approve a mission back to Caprica to rescue Sam Anders and his resistance fighters. The televised version shows Adama reacting to the Condition 1 alert by commenting that Roslin picked an interesting time for a visit, but you wouldn't know from the televised version that Starbuck was ever in the room with them. They wanted you to know that Starbuck hasn't given up on wanting to go back to Caprica, but that exchange unfortunately fell victim to the show's time constraints.
At the beginning of your reaction, you suspect that this is a cliffhanger, and say you are ready for one, and I was thinking "Are you sure about that?". There are cliffhangers and then there are cliffhangers. Originally the mid-season break was about 4 months, and it was very frustrating that we had to wait for the resolution. I don't remember how often I re-watched this episode, as if I subconsciously thought that watching it enough times could break the "To be continued" at the end and force the storytelling to continue. A few weeks into the second half of the season, producer Ron Moore commented that season 2 would end on "The Mother of All Cliffhangers". Our thought was "After 'Pegasus', what could be a bigger cliffhanger than that?"
LOL I feel your pain at this cliffhanger. When my husband and I started watching the show on its first run, it was already 1.5 seasons in, and we blitzed through the first season and a half after getting hooked by the miniseries and the first few episodes. After this cliffhanger my husband was like "oh my god, we have to find out what happens, put on the next episode!" and I said "there are no more, we are all caught up, the continuation doesn't air for another three months!" and he was like "WHAT??!?" 🤣
The scene that upset you with Sharon was cut right down in the original episode. For me, the original cut was enough. It didn't need the extra scenes to make it clear what was happening. Can't believe no one gave you a heads' up. As soon as you mentioned you were watching the extended cut, I immediately felt bad for you. Love your reactions to BSG, Carmen.
THIS was the episode where one’s feelings on the Cylons flip over. This episode mirrors the Iraq War and the revelations of torture at Abu Ghraib prison. WE were supposed to be the good guys… but suddenly everything’s flipped and you experience empathy for the so-called enemy. The mark of a great film / show / series is the ability to feel empathy… where everyone’s not simply a caricature. This was masterfully done by the writers of BSG.
It couldn't have been planned this way, but as it turned out, the original airing of this episode was only a few weeks after that scandal broke. That made for a very intense night on Sci-Fi channel's discussion forum of the time. While many conversations got sidetracked on real-world politics, the reality is that we couldn't say "Those Pegasus people are just evil, our real-life society would never do anything like that". There were also conversations about the responsibility of commanders. Did Cain know what was happening on her ship? If not, how much responsibility did she bear? Similarly, how much responsibility did then-President Bush and our other leaders bear for the disgrace in the Abu Ghraib prison? Vey intense discussions, as you can probably imagine.
@@jeremykraenzlein5975 Actually, and I had to look this up to confirm, the scandal WAS revealed way before the episode. On November 1, 2003, the Associated Press published a lengthy report on inhumane treatment, beatings, and deaths at Abu Ghraib and other American prisons. The original air date of the episode was September 23, 2005... so... more than two years had passed. I also know a lot about it, because I did the cover artwork for The Nation magazine that documented the torture in May, 2004. Ronald D. Moore, the showrunner, was in the military and he would have a knowledge base about the military and matters like this, as well. I totally agree that these are not simple questions and answers. This is an age old question about responsibility. How much blame should go to the people issuing the orders... how much to the people that carry out those orders. What about people who simple turn a blind eye and/or say nothing. Intense discussion? Absolutely. That's what I love about Battlestar Galactica. They took actual events of the day... and talked about them through this marvelous vehicle.
@@johnmavroudis2054 It looks like my memory of the real-world timeline was off. I guess that proves my point about how much the Abu Ghraib scandal was part of the discussion the night after the episode aired, since I remembered it as such current news at the time. I think that most reasonable people would agree that anyone who directly orders this sort of abuse is as guilty as the people who carry it out, but the tough question is people in command who did not actually order this, and perhaps didn't even know it was going on. A less emotionally intense version of the same dilemma is the question from a few episodes ago about Saul Tigh's responsibility for the Gideon massacre. Saul never ordered those pilots to shoot civilians, and he was appalled when he found out what happened after the fact, but would one consider him responsible for creating the environment which inevitably lead to this outcome? In a related note, if Cain didn't know exactly what they were doing to the Pegasus prisoner six (please keep this spoiler free: at the point where Carmen is in the show, we do not know how much Cain knew), then how responsible is she? Similarly, how far up the chain of command did responsibility for the Abu Ghraib scandal go, among officers who did not know at the time what was going on? Are some of them responsible for not adequately supervising the prison? Perhaps, but that responsibility only goes so far up the chain of command. But many on the forum were following the same argument as "Saul Tigh should never have sent those pilots to the Gideon in the first place" to say that responsibility went all the way up to President Bush, because he never should have invaded Iraq in the first place. I argued against this view, because that decision was a lot bigger than the horrors of this one prison. Besides, far worse atrocities happened at Abu Ghraib under Saddam Hussein, which would still have been continuing there if not for the invasion. I am not trying to restart all of those arguments here, but rather just give a flavor for what that discussion was like.
@@jeremykraenzlein5975 Totally get that. I think your reasoning is pretty sound... but might take issue with a couple of points. It was made clear from the top that torture was condoned (in both the Middle East... and on the show) . Ih the Middle East: The use of waterboarding and other forms of torture were approved. I believe it went agains the military's own code of conduct. The Bush Administration (and especially the Vice President) KNEW. Plus we should never use the worse treatment of others to justify doing the wrong thing. On the show, all Cane had to do was look at the condition of the prisoner to know what was going on. She didn't even care. That was all clear. No spoilers... so I'll leave it there. Thanks for the discussion. All the best!
@@johnmavroudis2054 I wasn't talking about waterboarding. That's a different controversy, where the administration (while publicly denying it at the time) authorized it for some of the top al-Queda leaders in Guantanamo Bay. According to the reports I have heard, Khalid Sheik Mohammed in particular (the person who first came up with the idea for the 9/11 attacks) became very talkative once he was waterboarded, and in the process inadvertently gave us a key bit of information which was essential to us ultimately finding Osama bin Laden. Does that justify waterboarding him? I have heard passionate arguments both ways. But yes, this waterboarding is something that the Bush administration approved and (eventually) took responsibility for. But whatever you think of this waterboarding, do not conflate it with the sexual humiliation of prisoners at Abu Ghraib! That was done by local soldiers, who have since been prosecuted for it. It was never approved by the top leadership, who put a stop to it once they learned of it. You are free to disagree with calls that the Bush administration made, but they did NOT condone the inexcusable abuse at Abu Ghraib.
I just wanted to say that I love your reactions to this show, and I can't imagine how frustrating it must be to watch some faceless corporation just take them down for bullshit reasons. Thanks for continuing to put these out, I really do look forward to them each week.
Michelle Forbes is a famous actress she was in the American version of the killing and played Ensign Ro Laren on star trek the next generation and in homicide life on the street and many other's
While I don't remember anyone else specifically calling for them to kill Lt. Thorne in the heat of the moment, your reaction of disgust was similar to how most of us viewed that scene. One of the discussion threads on the Sci-Fi forum which became very popular the night after this episode aired was "The Protruding Bolt Appreciation Thread", referencing the bolt that Thorne's head hit, killing him. But there were also people on the forum being jerks and taking the Pegasus officers' side. I don't know if they were seriously that evil, or if they were just trying to shock people. One of the other threads that got a lot of activity that night was titled something like "It's a blow-up doll - get over it", apparently based on the premise that what happened to Sharon wasn't r*pe because she wasn't human. While I decided I didn't want to read that particular thread, there were people making the same argument on other threads, though it was just a few people causing a big stir because so many others (myself included) were angrily replying to them. My argument was that while the personhood of cylons was a legitimate question, the act of r*pe only makes sense for people. Therefore, by doing that to Sharon, they were implicitly affirming her personhood, because they were doing to her something which can only be done to people. It was hypocritical for both the Pegasus crew and their real-world defenders to do that to Sharon, and then try to justify it with a "she isn't human" argument.
You make a good point. If Cylons are no more than blow-up dolls, then why take pleasure, not in the act, but in degrading them? Because they know deep down they have feelings and emotions, and therefore can be degraded in this manner. In doing so, they are affirming the Cylon's personhood.
The thing is, there is a BSG movie that follows what happened on the Pegasus. I always got the feeling she not only allowed the behavior, she encouraged it.
This episode was very hard for me to watch when it first aired for the same reasons you did. But damn, I had to admire a network TV show (science fiction, no less) that was brave enough to venture into these waters. And you can just sense that it wasn't for sensational reasons. It really digs into some heart-wrenching results of maintaining a war mindset and the unholy consequences of the desire for revenge. And just hold on... The next episode is astounding.
If you'd watched the original Battlestar Galactica tv series with Lorne Green as Adama you would've known about the Pegasus. Richard Hatch as Tom Zarek who played as Lee Adama(Apollo)in the original series and Lloyd Bridges as Commander Cain.
Cain has a point about Lee and Starbuck. Both are still free because Adama loves them. An outsider like Cain, looking at it in a rational way would do something about it.
Great discussion and analysis. Yes, this episode IS hard to watch. And what's more, it SHOULD BE. We, the audience, are meant to struggle and grapple with hard issues, and to question right and wrong, but to still come back to there actually being an objective right and wrong. This show is so good at doing multiple things at once, and doing them all pretty well. Everything that happened is meant to show us Cain's true nature, which is the dark side of human nature, and to dislike and reject that. It is also meant to have us grapple with a real world issue, and it does that well. And lastly, it is meant to bring us back to one of the show's major themes, as I have pointed out in the past in other situations: we are meant to repeatedly ask ourselves, in light of everything happening, whether humanity deserves to be saved. And I think we are always supposed to arrive at "yes." But only after really questioning and examining the good, the bad, the ugly, the flaws of complicated people dealing with complicated situations, and sometimes really doing the wrong things in the wrong ways for the wrong reasons. Because that's real life. That's all of us.
I love the "Pegasus" arch so much! I also hate it, for all the reasons you talked about... and it's going to get worse. :-(( Also, these are the espisodes that made me fall in love with Gaius and Six.
As a general concept, I really like the idea of to rture and de ath for people like R man. The data on having the de ath pen alty for extreme Rs is clear: mur ders of R victims go up if that's a possible penalty. Unfortunately, in order to keep victims safer, the punishment has to be less harsh. Kil ling an aggressor to prevent R or even to prevent someone from just injuring another person is justifiable. The "they're just machines" thing doesn't hold any value in my mind, but I assuming that an AI deserves to be considered a person at a very early point.
The point of the tortured Six isn‘t that she‘s a woman. The Cylons committed genocide, she‘s the enemy. The point is to show how vengeful Cain and some of her crew is. This is plain revenge and completely unhinged. You‘ll later discover more about the reasons behind this and then you can think about Cain‘s shoes. And then you can judge for yourself what you would‘ve done.
@@petiaivailova2563 I wouldn‘t put it past them tbh. Someone mentioned the fitting iraque war parallel, and men were subject to sexual abuse there as well. Torture is never good. Yes, Six being a woman bears a significant part of her torture method. And distustingly it seems the to go route. But it is not the sole reason why she‘s being treated this way. The Galactica view on this is yours, the Pegasus one is the enemy one. Each side sees itself in the right. Shoving it in the „she‘s a woman“ category is narrow minded. I‘m not condoning Pegasus‘ deeds in any way. I can however understand the thirst for revenge. Boomer has a great monologue about that in 2 episodes.
@@eukalyptus8974 After all, it's not like they did that to Cain, who is a woman herself. It's because of what she is, which is a Cylon, and not because she is a woman. If they think they would be gentle just for being a male Cylon than they have a narrow view of the world.
@@zammmerjammerbear in mind, regardless of what they look like, the majority of humanity only knows of the cylons as hardware and code, and with the majority of humanity being slaughtered by them, people were vengeful. You judge them for what you know, but what you know, they don’t. The cylons are not more than advanced toasters to the majority of humanity.
I agree with your sentiment regarding the rape of Cylon prisoners-But that’s because you and I see them as living beings. The Pegsus crew see them as abhorant AI gone mad, counterfeiting human beings-A simulation that seems human but is not. Thus unworthy of rights or respect, and deadly dangerous to human life. And while I happen to believe the Cylons are alive, what’s indisputable is their threat to mankind-The Cylons breached an agreed upon peace, infiltrated the Colonial mainframe and launched the largest genocide in human history, based on flakey religious cult beliefs. Beliefs still unclear, at this point in the show. Add to that the belief, not unreasonable, depending on one’s viewpoint that the Cylons only mimic life, then given that rape of them isn’t rape anymore than abusing a fuck doll. That said, doing so is bad for discipline because whether the Cylon women are alive or not, to abuse something that seems so real can only degrade a soldier’s conscience.
@Attox "It's entirely unreasonable given that the Cylon's are virtually indistinguishable from humans (down to reproduction) and intellectually even more advanced. By no reasonable standard can they be assumed to not be sentient. Dehumanizing them is a rationalization to commit war crimes, which of course humans have done even to other humans with arguments along the same lines." Well, an advanced chat bot might be able to convincingly emulate a human or at least a human level intellect and sentience, but that doesn't, necessarily, make it human or sentient. But yeah... very iffy territory.
Whether they view the Cylons as alive or not at the end of the day probably matters very little when it comes to what is being done to prisoners of war. After all, these actions and worse are being done many places in the world right now for reasons that are nothing compared to what the Cylons did. Humanity dehumanize actual human beings every day whether it's to justify despicable actions or fear/tribalism/etc. If we replace the Cylons with a tribe of humans that left the 12 colonies and returned to kill billions, there's very little reason to believe that the Pegasus crew would treat prisoners of war any differently.
When you lose your ties to civilisation, you stop being civil. Pegasus has been on its own for a year thinking it is the last group of humans with only one goal in mind, making the Cylons pay for the genocide of the human race. Normal morality has left them, vengeance and justice are all that matters. And that six, as much as she is a victim from their abuse, was complicit in that genocide, she was a liar and traitor who snuck onto their ship with the intent to kill them all. They're denying her the mercy of a quick death and escape, they want her to suffer at their hands just as their lost loved ones suffered at the hands of the Cylons. Pegasus shows what happens when people are left without anything to live for, consumed by hatred and regret they're warped into ugly disgusting beings who only see their own despair and those who drove them to it. You may choose to see Cylons as people, but the people will never see them as anything but heartless monstrous machines who launched a nuclear holocaust on humanity, who see that six at best as a lying traitor who was complicit. Even Sharon deserves to be painted with such a brush, yes, we know she loves Helo and wants to be better, wants her child to be born, but she is still complicit in the genocide of humanity, who lied and gaslighted Helo on Caprica for the goal of seducing him, no amount of love changes what she did. We may view them more than that, but it would be a tall order to expect the victims of their actions to, would you ask the victim of genocide to see their oppressor as human? Do you think they want to?
I'm not completely sure of the point of your argument, but the established fact in the Battlestar narrative is that the Cylons were actual slaves to the human race. Humanity was always the oppressor. The Cylons sought revenge against humanity. But who created that sense of revenge? Wouldn't it be humans themselves who created the Cylons? Ergo, humans are responsible for their own destruction because they oppressed their own offspring. It's even mentioned in the very first MiniSeries episode when Six ominously says "Humanity's children are coming home, today." LOL, asking questions like this is why I LOVE this show.
@@tescherman3048 Well you're at least up front about not getting what I'm saying, and I can see that in your reply. So let me say this, whatever the Cylon's went through during the slavery, it does not matter to the Colonials, and focusing on why the Colonials are dismissive of the Cylon's as sentient beings was the point of my post. My argument wasn't so much an argument but a statement of why Pegasus is the way it is, and how they're so willing to do such awful things. And I will try to say it as simple as I can, Pegasus has spent a year in utter despair thinking they're the last of humanity and that delivery vengeance on Cylon's for their near complete genocide of humanity is all the ship has had, they've been consumed by thit, it's all they have. We as a viewer may choose to see the Cylon's as human or human like sapient (including me, I love the Cylon characters) but we also must not lose perspective on why the Colonial detest them. Cylons may have been slaves once, but they won their freedom, they were free to do what they want, but they chose vengeance, they chose not to bridge the gap with humanity (not once did they ever send a delegation to Amnesty Station until they destroyed it) and the first knowledge of their return was a genocide of 30 billion people after 40 years of no contact. Let's put this into perspective, nearly every person complicit in the Cylon enslavement is either old or dead, the vast majority of people who were victims of the genocide had nothing to do with their enslavement. This genocide was so complete that humanity was reduced to 50 thousand people, and every single one of them lost someone to that genocide, and then those few survivors are forced on the run dogged relentlessly by the Cylons who're set on wiping them out. Then those survivors find out that not only are there Cylons that look and act human, but they used those humans like Cylons to infiltrate their society and are fully complicit in the genocide and mass murder of everyone they know. This is why humans are capable of doing such horrible things to the human Cylons, because they're complicit in mass murder and everyone left alive is a victim of it. My point isn't who did what first or who is to blame for it, it's why humanity doesn't care for the Cylons being tortured or raped or murdered, it's because as horrible as those actions are, the people (which aren't even seen as people) were part of a genocide. Let me put it another way, and to invoke Godwin's law, if you heard of a dedicated Nazi who was complicit in the holocaust was tortured or murdered by the survivors of the holocaust do you think the majority of people would see that as a wrong? The only people able to see past their grief and anger to see the Cylons as more than machines are those who have a personal connection that allows them to do so, and even they had to take time to do so (except Gaius, because Gaius). So, my point, point not argument, is why people like Cain and the Pegasus crew are such viscous cunts, unlike Galactica they lost their tether to civilisation, they became savages in response to a savage crime done to them, they only had vengeance left to live for. And then they met the Galactica, who didn't lose civilisation, who despite their vengeance decided to live on for a possible chance of a future. Galactica was kept civil by the civilian fleet, they had something other than vengeance left to live for, they remained human, Pegasus didn't.
As long viewers understand that Raping or assualting of women is ok to use in writing as a means of providing tension and drama to the series and to protray the sicking or immoral side of humanity Vs. the cylons. I believe that was kind of what the director was going for. It is of course wrong and there should be no justification for assualting women.
The only way a viewer would recognize the name "Battlestar Pegasus" with a commanding officer "Cain" is by remembering the series from 1978, where Pegasus under the command of the maverick Commander Cain appeared midway thru the single season. The only glaring difference between Admiral Cain/Commander Cain is that Commander Cain had his daughter Lt Sheba in command of his "personal strike force", Silver Spar Squadron. And Sheba & her squadron join Galactica crew when Cain apparently goes out in a blaze of glory versus 2 Cylon base stars! (We don't know Admiral Cain's marital status...except that she'd had an affair with Gina Six, before discovering that her lover was a Humanoid Cylon.) SPOILER!! I just realized this backstory is revealed in the movie Razor. The thing that *really* pisses me off is that Cain did everything except wrap the stripped ship in gift wrap & tie a bow on top of it!! A civilian transport stripped of its FTL is a gift for the Cylons! War crimes. Her namesake in the other universe was never guilty of war crimes... Flamboyant Cain would beat the living crap out of this vicious bitch!!! I also suspect Thorn misses his vacuum cleaner...considering how nonchalantly he r🔺ped a "machine"! When you mentioned wanting Thorn to have a more drawn-out death, I imagined abruptly introducing him to a full-blooded Klingon woman who has just been briefed on what he does to non human women... She grins at the freaked out unarmed human, who is just now noticing the inhuman bony structure on her forehead! Then, she draws her three-bladed knife. And glances down at his offensive member...
Now imagine watching this "back in the day" as it aired - knowing that there'll be the better part of a frackin' YEAR until the next episode comes out. If there ever was a cliffhanger in the history of TV, this was it.
When you finish Galactica & its associated movies (Razor, Blood & Chrome); & hopefully watch the prequel series Caprica;...another scifi series with powerful writing & sweeping morality arcs is Babylon-5. It's less gut wrenching than Galactica often is. And, I think its spiritual & religious themes would certainly intrigue you!
Don't come down too hard on Cain, yet at least, until you see Razor, the extended edition. She's really a tragic, complicated person than what these three episodes give you. I want to say more but can't, don't want to spoil her history which Razor reveals. Thorne that POS R word guy deserved to have his head bashed into the bulkhead and so do the other guys who did the same thing
How did the Pegasus find the Galactica? For almost a year the Galactica has left a trail of destroyed Cylons in its wake. All the Pegasus had to do was follow it. Cain explained this during the episode, but you were so concerned with disbelieving everything she said and with validating own ignorance that you missed it. Just because you don't understand how space travel works doesn't mean the Admiral of the Colonial Fleet doesn't either. There were at *least* 120 battlestars at the fall of the colonies, so please stow any performative notions of "statistical probabilities." "Am I the only one?" YES. Indeed, space is very large, but so is the ocean, and somehow ships navigate that as well. How? By navigation. Don't speculate on subjects you understand nothing about. You can navigate through space. It's possible, it's been done. No matter how big it is. This series is enormously useful in studying the Dunning-Kruger effect - which occurs when a person's innate privilege and lack of knowledge and skills in a certain area cause them to VASTLY overestimate their own competence - in action. And I mean your reactions, not Battlestar Galactica.
she seems to appreciate Starbucks and president Roslin just fine . she just happens to hate Cain . This episode is designed to make us resent Cain because we feel bad for Sharon, Helo and Galen .
