Battlestar Galactica | Destroying the Olympic Carrier 

Like how the scars pile up on Galactica's hull as the series progresses

@@GBart it was a rough and tough, and my one question remains today in lance hunter tone, “what happen to the passengers ?”

A sign of good writing.👍

@@TigerWing141 I can tell you they definitely died eventually at some point 😂

@@TigerWing141in the original edit there were passengers banging on the windows to confirm they were alive and trapped.

Thats why the cockpit is center-mass of the fighter. It reduces the g forces as much as possible.

Edit: As a final note, if the Olympic Carrier's nuclear weapons are able to be safer and decontaminated of any Cylon influence, they can be disarmed, and the warheads delivered back to Galactica for refurbishment and use in a future encounter.

"dutifully carries out his orders", that's like "patriarchal" or "something something". Instead he should have denied to carry out his orders and give us a speech about his precious little feelings while...crying a lot, like really a lot. Additionally someone must had been screaming on the background. You can't have people act professionally nor showing people having composure while in a tense situation. You need to show adults throwing emotional tantrums that are louder than the ones my 3 year old nephew is throwing. Also the scene required more explosions and more lens flare.

@@kleanthisxanthopoulos4697 Your speech is no less of a snowflake. You need to do less speechifying and more doing, just like they did.

Well, he is a Cylon after all 😊

Yep, first 25 episodes were stellar. After that, the quality of the writing tailed off.

It's hard to believe it's even been that long.

No fracking way man!

They should've used a different design for the Starvipers since they still look like X-Wings from Star Wars. George Lucas sued the people that made the og show.

@@JamesMDavis1 No, no they dont. If you think vipers look like X-wings you really don't know starwars and need to see an optometrist.

Moore et. al have already said repeatedly that there were people on board

@@kadeshaderow Even if there were people on-board, they were as good as dead. There was no way to save them. They (the Cylons) would have flown the ship into the fleet and set off their nukes. The Cylons turned the ship into a Trojan horse.

If the cut scene where used it would have Ben hard get that episode past sensors

In space, no one can see you scream. ... Or something like that. The ambiguity worked really well in that scene. It stayed with me throughout the series as the first heavy sacrifice the fleet had to make to survive.

By having people in the windows screaming for help, would have ruled out all doubt that they were killing their own people. With the windows empty, they can at least think the Cylons had already killed them and they were just blowing up an empty ship - apart from maybe the pilots. Easier on the conscience.

That isn’t a random guy, that’s baltar

Baltar, one of the most brilliant & famous scientists of their society. It´s like assuming Stephen Hawking was a soviet spy during the Cold War just because he flinched when the word "soviet spy" was mentioned in a room full of people.

@@prince-solomon if steven hawking 'jumped up' i think suspicions would be aroused

Any suspicions anyone had about him at the time would've been dissuaded when he provided sound reasoning behind them (which would've been further reinforced by the fact that both Roslin and Adama agreed with him), and then completely dissolved when the Olympic Carrier made a suicide run at the Fleet.

Baltar was pretty much the last of his kind. The fact that he continued to act as main scientific expert of the fleet despite being incompetent, corrupt and untrustworthy is remarkable.

You can experience their fatigue by binge watching all BSG episodes at 44 minutes each.

Starbuck is obviously high at the beginning of the sortie. Pill popping pilot. Took a hit just before takeoff. It wears off somewhat over the course of the sortie, but not entirely.

Last month I was awake for three full days due to dental pain. By the third day I started to hallucinate. I've also had sleep deprivation during my army service. Two hours on guard two hours off when you get to sleep for two hours in your sleeping bag before a guard comes and wakes you up. This went on all through the night for two weeks. When I got home I went to sleep on Sunday night and never woke up until Tuesday morning.

The actors themselves were sleep-deprived, they were getting less than three hours a sleep a night when they filmed this episode.

While I agree, I never fully understood why they had to be sleep deprived in the first place. I mean, they would have had probably 3 work shifts going even before the war took place in order to keep a ship like this going smoothly. You increase the shifts to 15 or so hours and you easily have double the people on duty at any given time. And you still have plenty of time to sleep. Heck, even the commander has a 2nd in charge that they could switch out with.

Much like bayonets in the modern military. Rarely used, but life-saving in the right situation.

@@chrisbingley yep. Never know when some fool's gonna charge at you.

The core of the problem here lies in the fact that space in BSG is closed-up very tightly and everything happends on unrealistically slow speeds. Light signalling is fine on those distances, but is not very likely to be useful on proper distances where visual contact is impossible/barely possible.

@@UEDCommander Says the guy who got run off by a bunch of bugs from the Koprulu Sector. ;)

@@Boskov01 We've learned the lesson about spacing the hard way

I'm no military expert. Nor am I a psychologist but I'm willing to bet it's one thing to talk logic from afar and it's another thing to be the one to pull the trigger on what is ostensibly 1500 innocent lives.

@@AngeloBarovierSD war is the pinnacle of insanity. Hesitate, people die. Pull the trigger, people still die. You will go crazy trying to make sense of it all.

@@meligoth You're arguing in axioms. I'm addressing the hesitation of the pilots, which is a human response to the gravity of their task, and the cavalier tone of your original comment. The preponderance of people to dismiss the human side of warfare is what leads to society's general response to the psychological wounds of its veterans. Speaking of war in trite pseudo-philosophy cheapens the magnitude of the decisions made within it and the effects upon those who made them.

@@AngeloBarovierSD there's no "wait, let's think about it" when it comes to these situations, fictional or real life. There's no happy outcome in this scene or something similar in real life. You allude to some wishy washy resolution, but reality tears that down, because your answer, if there is one for such a scenario will be wrong inevitably.

any ship that will not comply with a "heave to" order by a military vessel is considered a hostile threat and shall be treated as such.

That was always a bit of a plot hole to me in an otherwise fantastic episode. If this person really exists who could potentially ID Baltar, How did the Cylons know? Why did they go out of their way to mention his name?

Not a plot hole. This was a plot pivot. There were two ways to view Baltar's outburst. Adama already had suspicions because of his history fighting in the original Cylon war and being wise to their ways. Rosalyn was not 100% convinced until Adama lent his voice to support Baltar. She was leaning that way though. The others in the room were likely far less sure and likely would have leapt to this conclusion if it had not been unanimous between the three. Later on, this becomes a point of contention, albeit a relatively minor one. A lot on the line there and ultimately, self preservation and fear made the final answer in the moment and people were satisfied with the death of the unknown danger to save their own skins. High stakes. Well written.

@@eschelar Still doesn't quite explain the need to mention the informant with information about a traitor. Unless it was just stuck in for dramatic purposes to give Baltar more motivation for an outburst. Other than that, I feel they could have left that name drop out and still had the same effect and urgency to stop the ship from approaching the fleet. As is it leaves me with the question of how the Cylons knew of this informant and what he had to say. imho

@@mbvproductions4746 Well if you think about it, there's a number of perspectives being shown here. You've got Adama, the President, the press/people (here, they represent the people because they choose not to speak of Baltar's suspicious behavior because of their own fear of dying, but they don't forget how suspicious this looks forever). You've also got the perspective of the Cylons and the unknown entity in Baltar's mind. I think the perspective that confuses you is that of the Cylons. Why would they say they have information about a traitor? Well for starters, they have known all along that Baltar is a traitor. So this is definitely a ploy or a trick.. a trap. The turning of Baltar was a key part of the Cylon plan. Remember that the Cylons are actually trying to find Earth as well and they are entertaining the idea that the humans of Kobol will lead them to it. I don't think they are genuinely trying to destroy humanity and we have seen this many times in the show when they could have wiped them all out but didn't. But they are trying to weaken them so they can keep the upper hand. Discord is their tool at this time. Shooting down the Olympic Carrier would be a major assault on their unity. Finding a traitor (especially Baltar) would be a major assault in their unity. This situation became win-win when they said they would drop the name. Baltar had to make a choice. He found a way to sorta kinda make it work in the situation where he met with opinions informed by fear and suspicion, something Adama had described as primary tools of the Cylons on multiple occasions through the show. This wasn't only a shooting war. The Cylons lost an asset, but one they were well prepared to lose. They did not need to bolster their fleet numbers, so they played the Carrier like it was a card in a game. In fact, if you can see the argument that they wanted to minimize losses, but maximize discord, the destruction of the Olympic Carrier was their best solution. Beautifully set up and masterfully executed.

@@eschelar No no, I get what they were trying to portray, setup. I just couldn't fully understand the background for the setup. Not only did the Cylons seem to want to further the discord by mentioning a traitor, but they seem to through out, I guess, a logical name that Baltar recognized. Just seemed a little convenient for the scene. If they left out the name drop, it would not have been missed. Baltar could have still reacted the same, self preservation first. Also, at this point I think the Cylons were still in "exterminate all humanity" mode. It wouldn't be till much later that they "realize their error" and turn to subjugation of the human race, and then later finding earth. They intended to wipe them out here. By disabling or destroying the Galactica. I actually felt the Cylons jumped in just a minute or two too early. I think that was what finalized Adama and the President's decision to take out the cruiser. Imagine if they waited two more minutes before jumping in while the humans were still indecisive about the carrier. Again, do get me wrong. I am in full agreement. I loved the episode. The tension. One of the best episodes in the series.

It's rare to see. Mobile Suit Gundam makes a big use of it due to electronic signal jamming during their war.

starship trooper Invasion did something similar with 1 of the trooper using his gun as a morse code signal lamp

Bart Mancuso uses it in The Hunt for Red October to signal the Soviet boomer

Well, it is the military's job to protect the civilians, it made natural sense.

The Galactica is the largest ship in the fleet by some margin and it's got the only hull that even a nuke would struggle to dent, as we see once or twice during the show, it's a logical choice to try and use the ship as a shield.

Its not the first time Adama has done that. I recall one episode, he gives the same order and follows with "we can take the hit, they cant".

Cain: "LOL" I'd say the military's first sworn duty should be the defense of their own citizens. Everything else should be secondary, perhaps even their own lives if necessary. Not only is Galactica armored, it's heavily armed. When they say "the fleet" in the series they effectively mean humanity.

@Matthew Caughey The deleted scene for this had civilians banging on the windows from inside the ship. They purposefully made it empty.

mostly one of the cylon models talking.

@@thehantavirus Which one? Doesn't sound like any of the models I'm familiar with.

@@GplusGains They are machines, very possibly synthesized a fake voice. It's also possible they kept the pilot and compelled him to do the talking.

In my head, it's Simon, one of the Fours.

It's either a Human Model, most likely a Number 4 by the sound of the voice, or one of the crew being forced at gunpoint.

The clear intention of the writers was to create a devastating moment for Lee, and they pile on the lingering doubt and guilt later on. The audience is meant to empathize with his angst, but the problem is they took away virtually all possible moral ambiguity from the situation for no discernable reason. Lee is stricken with indecision and guilt for blowing up a ship that had no visible passengers, had an armed nuke onboard, and was going to ram Galactica. If he does nothing, the ship is just as destroyed, except so is all of humanity. How to improve this? 1. No nukes on the Olympic Carrier, as that singular threat makes its destruction an unimpeachable and obvious decision. 2. Make their approach to the fleet more generalized, not a ramming course for Galactica. Make the Olympic Carrier look like a scared stray sheep desperate for the security of the herd. 3. Have civilians clearly visible in the windows, maybe even waving desperately or pounding on the windows in panic. With these three changes, the decision is anything but clear. However, introduce the following change to make the decision to destroy the Olympic Carrier still the "best" choice. 4. Make this specific jump NEED to be the LAST jump; have Galactica or a majority of the civilian ships have their FTL drives at risk of imminent failure, make them unsure they'll even be safe jumping THIS time. There can be some doubts about that assessment, but every technical manual and piece of evidence needs to show that they're already tempting fate. If they COULD jump a few more times, maybe they could take time to sweep the Olympic Carrier for trackers/saboteurs. But make it so THIS HAS TO BE THE LAST JUMP. In conclusion, Lee and Kara would know for a fact that there WERE civilians on the ship that they destroyed. They have to live with that, and that would be terrible enough. But the cylons stop finding them every 33 minutes, so they saved humanity from extinction. But Lee's inner optimist obsesses over the "what if" outcomes. What if they could have jumped first and rushed to find a solution to the Olympic Carrier tracking? That turns Lee's noble intentions against himself, making his virtue a source of emotional punishment. There's your angst.

​@@GenerateSilencenowadays people don't understand the good story telling and build good character

Relax, it's only 3.6 Roentgens

@@slayeddreamer3820 not great, not terrible

@@slayeddreamer3820 -- only 3.6, until it detonates, then it is a bit more.

@@drx1xym154 like a chest x-ray or something like that?

That2 the maximum level read of the device; so it's much higher

I agree, it's either 33 or S3E7 of The Expanse.

ALMOST?

I believe flight 93 was shot down and the feds told the family that their loved ones fought valiantly. Otherwise imagine the settlement money paid to each family, let alone the mark on the pilots head who had to down it.

​​@@SCIFIguy64 I believe both things happened. The passengers did rise up and the jets shot down the plane before it got to a populated location. Not sure why both things couldn't be true. I also understand why the gov wouldn't want the public to know that military jets, operating over US soil, shot down a civilian airplane.

On 9/11 the FAA called control towers and control centers and told them to get those passenger planes on the ground at the nearest airports to them

She's off her face on stims at that point too...

Especially paired with how she starts shooting before the camera actually cuts to the external angle, when you'd "normally" expect the camera to go there to see the first shots fired. It's like she's so into it she's not even waiting for the camera/crew/story to catch up, in a tongue and cheek sort of way.

“Oh, boy! Here I go shooting my problems again!”

And Tigh's expression as he realises Adama's thought process and snaps back to XO mode.

@@bujtorm Tigh: I hope your wrong about this. Adama: So do I.

Also love how he starts panning around the CIC while giving orders, like his mind gears are spinning at full speed weighing all the possibilities and next movements.

Actually there’s plenty of reason. Your civilization just got nuked and the other survivors are essentially trying to kick you out. While she was probably under Cylon control, a civilian ship could do the exact same thing in that scenario and be completely innocent.

She objected, but she's still a member of the military and both followed the order and spared him from being the only one to do it.

@@jamiestewart48 If you watch, it looks like Lee missed and Starbuck hit. He choked at a vital moment and Starbuck wound up doing it for him. Lee gave the order though, so even if he didn't hit he still destroyed the Olympic Carrier through his actions.

@@PumpkinHoard No, they both hit. They fired off to the sides of the ship and swept their arcs of fire in, with both Vipers hitting the outboard engine pods.

@@PumpkinHoard -- IDK, I think Lee was pissed or stressed that Kara objected, over coms to the order. I mean Kara shot very close to the bow of that boat and it did not flinch. She flinched at the not flinching... It was clear cut after the nuke alarm, though. Kara - stubborn as ever.

Starbuck needs to shut the hell up and follow orders.

I heard that the "reboot" is actually an extension of the series (ie. Caprica, etc). I hope that's true.

"33" is pretty arguably the best episode BSG ever did. Kicked the real series off with a massive bang.

The Legacy there was always a rumor that a large military fleet with civilian scientists accompanying them were seeking out other habitable worlds. This fleet never had the upgrades and the flag ship was said to be almost twice as big as the Mercury Class Battlestar. The main purpose of this class was for Command Control/fleet flag ship and deep space exploration. They were supposed to make 5 in total with 3 complete. We assume the other 2 were destroyed and this last one on this deep space mission. Would be one hell of a story to see this ship and it’s fleet pop back in to Picon and realize they just walked into a war with the Cylons. Now they are the last fleet to defend the twelve colonies a Super Battlestar, 2 smaller Battlestar, various military support ships and science vessels. Now that would be an amazing series!!!

I love the reboot of BSG more than any show ever (maybe tied with GoT) but I do NOT want a remake because I know current day Hollywood, they will completely destroy BSG with a combination of terrible writing and toxic Hollywood politics.

@@billgere5293 Current year Hollywood would destroy it

I bet the "captain" was a Cylon. :P

Funny thing about that. Originally when they were drafting this episode and Apollo was checking the windows of the Olympic Carrier, there were supposed to be people visible, gesturing for help.

@@BladeZero238 That would have made it far more intense. Now when I saw this episode I didn't really understand the difficulty in their decision, especially knowing how deceptive the Cylons are. But seeing hundreds of confirmed civilians on board would have made a big difference.

@@BladeZero238If I remember reading correctly, I think that was actually part of this episode and SyFy felt really weird about it and made them edit it out. That's why, when Apollo is looking at the windows on the ship, it looks like there are little blips and blurs (especially noticeable when he first looks at the ship around 7:40).

@@troyroberts6578 SciFi was leery of showing doomed civilians on a hijacked transport so soon after 9/11, which is why they ordered the change. The "blips and blurs" were the production company's compromise. It allowed for the possibility of civilians, but didn't outright show it.

They didn't know that she's an infiltration unit.

nonsense, they all are navy pilots that know the code being used, secondly the shot across the bow would have stopped them even if that was the case and lastly ARMED nukes onboard = zero chance of it being a "mistake"

Nukes + nobody looking out the windows, speeds up to meet the fleet, why is it in such a hurry.

It was also Crash Down who did the message, Boomer was just flying the ship and handling wireless comms, you can see him fervently typing into his console when Dee is instructing what message to send

@@conor6436 and beside she didn’t know she didn’t she was a Cylon until the season 1 finale.

As far as "Do it!" contests are concerned, I say "make it so!"

Janeway would win!

No Roger Miller?

The original show did that and it was something kept for the new show and I really like it

Loose like diarrhea?

what dilemma? Their was only one good choice. I'm still astounded the President waited so long to give the order and that she felt remorse later.

@@chrismartindale7840 you answer your own question by saying : the only *good choice* . Choosing was the dilemma. If you think that was a easy one, hey thats up to you then. Adama, Apollo and Starbuck felt the responsibility and burden also. Making a tough descion and living with it are 2 separate matters. If you are unable to feel remorse in such matters I can only say.. Glad you are not in command. And just to be clear, yes I would have made the same choice.. But that definitely would burden me.

@@misterangel8486 As an Aspie I deal with facts and logic. Emotions do not influence my decisions. If there is only one good choice I don't understand what the dilemma is. How is making the only good decision tough? I do feel remorse, but I wouldn't feel any for the Cylon controlled ship we just destroyed.

@@chrismartindale7840 why do you keep asking me questions you answer yourself? Its starting to look like troll behaviour. If you don't see the dilemma I can not help you see it. I know quite a few aspies, so don't bullshit me. They feel something. Don't hide behind it. That offends me humongously. Your 'logic' is not a excuse for shortsighted behaviour. Use it to examine human emotions instead of using it as a shield not to feel. You are not a fracking Vulcan. Last attempt to make you see it, you act as a *outsider with all available info* Try using that 'logic' to imagine not having slept for days, not having all the info and being in the situation instead of looking at it from the outside. Your logic is flawed if you don't. The feeling of having failed to protect can be a extreemly powerfull emotion.

@@misterangel8486 I didn't say I don't feel emotion, I do. It just doesn't impact my decision making. If I'm coming across as a troll I apologize, that was not my intention. It's just that from my point of view, if the answer is obvious, why do you need to think about it?

The perfect pilot - all the explanation of what the Hell this is about are there, but wrapped into context. If the money folks were willing to spend big (for TV) for a four-hour "proof of concept" event, then R&D had to prove it could be done on a episode budget & time constraints. Stupid as it sounds, if "33" didn't impress the beancounters, they could recoup the miniseries as the "special event" it was. Maybe shoot some additional footage to allow "33" to be part of the miniseries. They used to do this all the time.

That's so sad. You should look into reading books......

@@matthuckabey007 I do so already. How else do you think I have a head full of absolutely useless trivia?...😁

@@matthuckabey007 that hasnt got anything to do with books or is this a joke?

While I thought the pilot was good, much better on a second viewing, this is the episode that made me say "this series looks like it's going to be pretty good."

Mark Mance -- Amen to that. Had to go back and listen to the percussion, I was so wrapped up in the tension watching this clip. Bear McCreary is the man.

@@tedball8677 The music builds and then _completely stops_ at the exact right moment. Yeah, I have trouble paying attention to music _and_ dialogue. The music lends all the weight to Baltar's confession: Mary McDonnell didn't need any help though. Her entire demeanor, everything about her; Brilliant.

It's a legitimate excuse the cylon computer virus was far beyond their ability to contain.

Plus I think 5-6 days without sleep warrants people to abandon social norms.

In my version, the passengers were kidnapped and was used as hosts.

You know that there will (was planed) be new episodes just this year ? Dunno if or how corona has an influence on this but I’m feeling like a child and can’t wait to see them!

@@icehelion9788 The better freaking not be it will just spoil the old episodes and it will be some sort of politics or sjw crap in it.

Love how it only took you a few days lol I burned through them quickly too

Wut? It was spectacularly successful, what are you babbling about?

That's the military. You don't stand around waiting for your cue when you get an order You know your job & do it while others are doing theirs.

Iirc there actually is a standing “no approach” zone around modern U.S. naval vessels.. you’re warned if you get to close to it, multiple times.. if you cross into it you’re automatically considered a military threat and dealt with accordingly.. this is a standing practice, wartime OR peacetime..

It would have been far more shocking, especially as an opening episode. Although in practical terms it hardly makes a difference whether the Olympic Carrier was full of people or not as it was threatening Galactica. It would have just traumatised Starbuck and Apollo more...

@@Negativvv It doesn't make a difference, which is the horrible part. It just would've displayed the horror of such a situation. Destroying an empty ship is one thing, destroying a ship full of civilians is quite another.

I feel like they must have removed it because it would not be in line with Apollo’s character to obey the order to shoot down the Olympic carrier like that. Like this, while less impactful, Apollo not seeing anyone is what makes him decide to follow command. Seeing passengers begging for help would make Apollo refuse. He already disobeyed with blocking communication moments before.

It makes a huge difference to the Viper pilots who are pulling the trigger, not overall to the Colonial fleet. Would suck to be in Starbuck and Apollo's shoes!

On the podcast that Tricia Helfer does, she had them doing a live reading of 33. Jamie Bamber "Apollos actor" said it was because of Execs of NBC thinking it was too disturbing for people.

No one probably dared shoot until it was too late (hidden engines give it a massive boost). It would probably have ended Galactica. Or at least taken out one of its pods.

I read a comment somewhere that there was supposed to be people in the windows but it was cut for being too dark for TV. Like the extermination of 50 billion people isn't dark enough.

@@PupSentinel There was a scene in a later episode where either Lee or Starbuck is obsessing over this incident, and replaying the gun camera footage over and over looking for signs of shadows in the windows. That scene only lasts 10-20 seconds, forget what episode.

@@Mike-tw1pi You might be thinking of Starbuck going over the gun cam footage of an unspecified viper pilot observing the exchange of fire between 2 cylon raiders chasing a third. In that case the third cylon raider contained bulldog who had apparently escaped his captors but had, as Starbuck intuited and consulted with Tigh over, that Bulldog had in fact been let go. The giveaway being that Bulldog was "...flying straight and level... ...any nugget could have made that kill..." with his raider also venting atmo from prior damage. There are a few episodes where gun cam footage is scrutinised, however this was the closest scene I could think of off hand that matched closely to what you vaguely described.

@@Rezinstance Hang on, I think I found it! Apparently it is in the movie Razor, but is a deleted scene in the regular release. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-f-Hb8F_5aLg.html

Because he was trying to get Baltar acquitted...

The original script had the ship being fulled of people But they didn't want to wake up bad memories of 9/11 (the airplanes that hit the towers) And they changed it. Moore points it in an intertview.

@@SPACECRUISER96 that explains a lot. The characters' reactions don't make any sense if the ship is empty. I wish they'd have kept to the original script.

@@SPACECRUISER96 Yeah and Billy wasn't supposed to get cucked to death but that's what happened.

@@yoongilimerence I think showing the ship full is too dark, even for battlestar galactica. I would have preferred if they just left it entirely ambigious.

eric777100763 But Lee will never know *FOR SURE*, so this action is going to haunt him to the end of his days.

So say we all!

They may have been dead. Who knows?

In one of the scripts there was going to be people in the windows.

@@nickjerrat I remember reading that. Imagine the chills?

A deleted scene from the movie "Razor" had Starbuck and Apollo looking at gun camera footage, with Apollo arguing that a shadow they see is from a persom. Starbuck argues it's a trick of light.

If there were, they were probably being held captive by Centurions.

And re-listen to the dialogue and the music is top notch!

They jumped off the island?

@@krashd yup. very sad. It was literally Death before Dishonour. But it was more than just the propaganda threat of what they were told the Americans would do. They would fight to the last man or die rather than dishonour the emperor or their country. Look up the battles on the Pacific islands (especially Iwo Jima), the Japanese just would not surrender. From 21,000 soldiers, only around 200 were captured.

@@fuzzblightyear145 Yeah, I know about that. It's one of the most disgusting cases of "What are you willing to do for your country?" The Imperial Japanese and the Soviets had no problems with using humans as fodder. It's actually ironic that the typical go-to insult against us westerners, but mainly against Americans, is that our soldiers are thought to be expendable lumps that we can always make more of when really it was the Soviets and the Japanese who saw men as a single-use commodity that could rush the enemy with nothing more than a spade.

Assuming Olympic carrier have the ability to launch Nukes they’d run a higher risk of damage to fleet by not firing. If a nuke goes off you’d rather be as far away as humanly possible

@@jamesxiaolong2199 It more than likely would've kamikazed itself into another ship or detonated the nuke when it got into the Fleet (sort of like what happened with Cloud 9).

@@Mobius_118 I’m only assuming they’d have the ability to launch the nuke otherwise, ramming would be just as effective without the risk of confirming you’re hijacked.

If you don't think there's an ethical dilemma with killing 1300 civilians by destroying the ship they're in, you have a serious problem.

@@j.f.l.bousquet1998 Splashing a ship that mysteriously reappeared that shouldn't have had nukes but all of a sudden had nukes and making a bee line for a fleet of ships carrying the last 38,000 members of the human race is a no brainer. Perhaps the civilians on the Olympic Carrier were alive, perhaps not. Either way, with the radiological alarm it was unlikely that if they were alive they would stay that way. There was a very low chance that any survivors on the Olympic Carrier would be recovered. There was a very high chance that not taking out the Olympic Carrier would result in the deaths of any possible survivors on the Olympic Carrier as well as thousands more deaths when the nuke(s) detonated within range of the fleet. Not taking out the carrier and letting thousands more die as a result would be a decision made by someone with a serious problem. There's no delima when the decision is that clear cut.

Your conclusions were all wrong, Ryan. Halsey acted stupidly.

@@uncahay Red Oktober, shtanding by

easy choice