BATTLETECH Jump Point S2 Ep11 | Is 3D Printing Mechs a Problem? | Video Podcast

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What better way to spend your springtime Sunday morning than hanging out with the DFA crew and listening in to another episode of Jump Point? This episode tackles the meaty and controversial topic of 3D printed 'mechs.
Are they a danger to the industry? Will the bring about the apocalypse of wargaming as we know it? Or is it really no different than a hand-made cardboard standee in 1985? Sit back, relax, and dial in as the guys mull this one over.
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2 окт 2024

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Комментарии : 338

@A88mph 6 месяцев назад

Battletech is famous for letting you use proxies since the beginning. That Genie can NEVER be put back in the bottle, nor should it.

@DeathfromAboveWargaming 6 месяцев назад

This is a great point - and a feature that differentiated BT from the more “strict” companies.

@jamessmith5666 6 месяцев назад

I’m with Tom on the Heroforge thing. It should be co produced by them and called Mechforge. Pick your mech, make your variant, change your pose, add your battle damage, add your weapons effects, add your hex base terrain, add your colour scheme, pick your scale, then order it online.

@matthewbirdsall9518 6 месяцев назад

I would love if CGL had a MechForge service, that'd be sick.

@DeathfromAboveWargaming 6 месяцев назад

100%. What a great concept.

@theredbeardbard 6 месяцев назад

Fully agree!! C'mon Randall, make it happen!

@dracphelan 6 месяцев назад

There are multiple problems with this: 1. Development cost - unless they license the software, they have to pay to develop it. That will not be cheap. 2. Unless they make people buy the printed minis and not 3d files. They the run the risk of losing money to people printing a bunch of copies or sharing the files with friends or just out on the internet. 3. Part of the licensing agreement is that the only company that can produce and sell single models that are not in blind boxes is Ironwind Metals. Ironwind has allowed CGL to make certain models available in limited single quantities available as part of the Kickstarters. But, they won't let them just sell singles outside of blind boxes. Also, it is my understanding that Topps said that CGL could not sell the 3D files to the public.

@vykryl65 6 месяцев назад

That would be the end of all our wallets

@joseferrer8738 6 месяцев назад

I don't see the issue. I started playing when mechs were printed on cardboard . If we didn't have the "right" one we'd just use one that was close enough. So much focus on the minis will turn BT into 40K.

@youtmeme 6 месяцев назад

Maybe....but the minis make it soo awesome!! 😜

@Dang_Near_Fed_Up 6 месяцев назад

I was worse off than that, I used ANYTHING to symbolize my mechs. Other games like Monopoly pieces, etc. Heck I even used bottle caps, and checkers with an arrow drawn on them with magic marker to denote the front facing, and a number to clarify the mech designation. If you want to play bad enough you can make do without all the fancy shmancy, but it is nice to have it. nd it does make the game far easier to run.

@TheHobojebus 6 месяцев назад

No catalyst being dicks about it is the issue, battletech has always been model agnostic, you could use pennies to play or blocks of wood.

@calebhebert2733 6 месяцев назад

most of my minis are 3d printed. i see no reason to stop.

@DeathfromAboveWargaming 6 месяцев назад

Can’t stop won’t stop!

@JCDadalus 6 месяцев назад

3D printer go brrrr

@cjwestphal397 6 месяцев назад

3D printing for me has absolutely nothing to do with the cost of prints vs. official models. It's jut a fun indulgence. I am wholeheartedly using 3D prints in my forces, right alongside my loads of Catalyst plastics, for several reasons. First, when considering vehicles, several 3D printers out there make much better looking, more detailed designs than ANYTHING from Iron Wind Metals, and you don't have to deal with metal models. And it's great for having vehicles/mechs that aren't available in plastic from Catalyst yet (or ever). Also, having fun with 3D prints enabling WYSIWYG for us who geek out about fine details. I really like my official Shadow Hawk, but at the same time I LOVE my 3D printed Shadow Hawk K that looks like the original from the old Dougram cartoon, and with a purposefully-modelled PPC on the shoulder instead just proxying the model with an autocannon as that variant.

@cmdrhatchy9611 6 месяцев назад

I'm of the opinion that play the game any way you can. As long as Battletech is being talked about, there are always new friends to be made.

@DeathfromAboveWargaming 6 месяцев назад

Love this! And I know we will keep talking about it.

@jamesstricklerii5384 6 месяцев назад

If they don't want to not endorse 3D printing miniatures, I think the very first thing they should do is remove all references to proxy usage from all of their rule books. With that being said though, one of the largest benefits to 3D printing is that it allows for a legitimate proxy availability for those individuals that are in locations that are hard to recieve products or whose products prices are extremely inflated due to difficulty. Trying to get battletech products in Thailand is extremely difficult, but if Catalyst offered a print on demand service (such as they do for their pdfs), I believe they would see an explosion in its usage in more remote locations.

@DeathfromAboveWargaming 6 месяцев назад

Great points.

@KTSTHofficial 6 месяцев назад

Despite 3D printing all my minis after getting my printer, I've spent more at my local nerd shop since starting my 3d printing adventure. I need miniature cases, paints, digital PDFs or e-books, pluck foam, tools, etc. I'm pleased with where my money is going now that I have the freedom to invest into the hobby and not just the minis. Despite how much my local TTG group prints, Games Workshop still seems to be goin' though.

@crusignatioutremer791 6 месяцев назад

Those vent holes on the AC5 are part of a cooling shroud, like you see on an M2 .50 cal. Or the GAU-8 on the A-10.

@DeathfromAboveWargaming 6 месяцев назад

Ah yes - cooling jacket. That’s the word I was looking for! Good call!

@jiriz0r 6 месяцев назад

Most ACs on the plastics seem to have some sort of cooling jacket detail. It's how I identify what's an AC and what's either a PPC/Laser or Gauss rifle on mini's of Mechs I'm not familiar with. I think it's pretty cool that CGL uses it as a consistent design element, it helps to unify the whole range a bit.

@DeathfromAboveWargaming 6 месяцев назад

@jiriz0r yes! I very much appreciate the consistency in weapon/equipment design!

@chaz706 6 месяцев назад

3d Printed models aren't the problem: they're the solution!

@BewareTheSparkleFaeries 6 месяцев назад

ive found the catalyst minis to have terrible mold lines in the worst locations, much easier to do a little sanding on the 3d print lines on a few surfaces than it is to deal with those mold lines, or sometimes misaligned molding. I like the cgl designs and miniatures, but outside of fragility issues I have found that 3d prints are way easier to clean up, have better defined detail, with one possible exception, which is the tiny, heavily recessed cockpit glass sections on most models which are pretty tough to paint well.

@DeathfromAboveWargaming 6 месяцев назад

Fair assessment!

@brycie35 6 месяцев назад

I have always supported CGL by buying the offical miniatures. However one frustration is the miniatures come only in box sets and can’t be brought individually. So if I want a Vindicator for example, it would cost me $40 AUD per miniature. Sure I get extra stuff I don’t really want….but I could buy a 3D printed Vindicator for $8….or have a mate print it out for me at cost on his printer. 🤷‍♂️

@DeathfromAboveWargaming 6 месяцев назад

Another great point - sometimes you just want a single BattleMaster… shouldn’t have to spend $60 and get a bunch of stuff you don’t want or need!

@brycie35 6 месяцев назад

Or even when you want to buy multiples of the same unit which multiples this problem!

@TheGantus 6 месяцев назад

I print the Mechs that i can't buy.

@bruced648 6 месяцев назад

CGL should seriously consider the 'heroforge' approach. let people order mechs/vehicles and have customization options.

@teejay91b 6 месяцев назад

Apparently anytime CGL had mentioned anything to Topps that involves the words 3D printing or STL, Topps immediately says no and shuts down the conversation.

@tobyspaulding4618 6 месяцев назад

3D printing has a place, and is here to stay. Just like any tool some people are going to be a$$holes about stuff and scam a bunch of prints, but most people are cool about it and over all bring creativity and variance to the hobby. I see “printer stores” becoming a thing. Production will become an option at your LGS. No more pointless inventory and no more high prices from over inflated companies with big egos. People can just put in an order, buy the rules online, and pick up and play their stuff at the end of the week. No need for mass distribution from one source. Print and play stores will become a thing of the future.

@DeathfromAboveWargaming 6 месяцев назад

Print & play! What a great concept - how easy would that make it to “test drive” a game right at the point of sale & draw in new players? Really cool… fantastic comment!!! Thanks for watching.

@Dang_Near_Fed_Up 6 месяцев назад

I agree, especially as 3D printers improve in quality and become faster. You could order a custom lance, go grab a meal and come back to pick them up in the local mall / gaming store (think 1 hour photo developing from years past). Then take them home and paint them. You would be ready to play the following morning, and likely be out no more than the cost of your meal for an entire company of freshly printed mechs.

@JCDadalus 6 месяцев назад

If I may weight in a little bit. I agree with DFA's point about why people 3D print miniatures, buy STL's or buy printed models as proxies. There are a lot of models that haven't received official releases, or the IWM models are too out of scale with the new stuff, are unavailable, out of stock, or too expensive per mini by comparison to just getting a resin print of a better looking model. Who would benefit from resin prints of mech stl's is a different question all together. FDM isn't precise enough to get smooth enough details, but resin printers are perfect for this. The people who benefit the most from the 3D print miniature market are people who already own a resin printer for minis for other games not just Battletech. If a person owns a resin printer, there are relatively cheap if not outright free models that can be printed and won't break the bank, especially with experienced resin printer hobbyists. So for them, I would say 3D printing is an amazing asset to have in the wargaming toolbox. Who wouldn't benefit from 3D prints, are people who only have an FDM printer, would only be able to print very low quality proxies that look atrocious, who don't want to or can't afford some pricey resin printers, the resin, cleaning equipment, safety equipment, and buy STL's. These people would be better off just buying resin prints of mechs from their friends or something or just buying official products as they become available. My personal take is I own a resin printer and I've had it for several years now. I've printed minis not just for Battletech but other games like 40K, Lancer, and D&D. I have friends who create 3D models and give them to me for free, and I also have friends who I play Battletech with locally who print stuff for us for free and give them to us to paint and use. The losses for me are zero and the gains are only positive, so for me 3D printing is perfectly viable. that's all I got. Great video and wish you guys a great week.

@DeathfromAboveWargaming 6 месяцев назад

Solid comment! Thanks for sharing your insight here!

@stevenvaclavik1261 6 месяцев назад

I think a major factor that needs to be considered is who is actually 3d printing. I bought a 3d printer, have printed mechs and terrain, but also spent over $300 on the last kickstarter. Nobody is going to invest in the 3d printers, the time, the materials and efforts, without already investing in the product itself That said, the idea of a heroforge type deal would be freakin' awesome!

@DeathfromAboveWargaming 6 месяцев назад

Great points and yes!

@bzeitler13 6 месяцев назад

Sort of. The real problem are the etsy pirates who invested in the printers to prey on people who won't invest in the printers.

@stevenvaclavik1261 6 месяцев назад

@bzeitler13 I just don't see players committing significant resources to Etsy mechs, except in cases where the mech itself is unavailable through CGL... however, if that were a threat to CGL, then the simple solution would be to make the mechs available individually, or as a "build a lance" type of package.

@DeathfromAboveWargaming 6 месяцев назад

@stevenvaclavik1261 … man the “build a lance” idea is gold. CGL would make billions *dr evil voice*

@DeathfromAboveWargaming 6 месяцев назад

@bzeitler13 maybe that is true - but while I can afford a printer, I also don’t want one. I don’t want another thing to fiddle with or maintain. I’d rather just buy my minis - I don’t think I am alone there tbh. But you do have a point re no quality control on etsy/ebay prints. And more “official” printers like PWM got run out of town to some degree…

@Blue_Dingo 6 месяцев назад

Geez, talk about signing over my paycheck to CGL..... I want variants, I do not like running proxies for them. I would prefer to have official miniatures, but I have many 3D quality prints of specific variants and mechs, CGL or IWM does not make. I play on Terrain, not maps, variants matter. For example I am looking at a Madcat S on my bench, ATM. There are 11 official variants of the example, Hermes 2 on Sarna, with a "Mechforge" service, you could have whichever one you wanted, in many different poses. Only sell the "mechforge" Prints, not the files. Run the service with IWM if you need to, or cut them in. You get a Mech in a Campaign, it gets re-weaponed, order the custom Mini for it, on "Mechforge". Biggest problem I see, is the backlog of orders.

@DeathfromAboveWargaming 6 месяцев назад

Love this!!!

@Dang_Near_Fed_Up 6 месяцев назад

If they are 3D printing them, why not have local shops do the printing. Think "1 hour photo" at the local mall, not a single distributor in China printing everything. Heck for that matter, think "RedBox" 3D printers at just about any local store. You merely tell them where to print it when you order it, and it's ready for pickup by a certain time. Just like ordering a pizza.

@CDR-3R 6 месяцев назад

Official boxes are not imported into my country. Although a local publisher published the Starters of the inner sphere and clans, and also promised to release an Alpha strike box set. (but its release has been delayed for almost a year.) Pirated copies of miniatures of CGL and IWM are also available. But 3d printing has advantages, excellent detail (I don't understand why they complain about the quality of printed minuses here in the comments, any 4-8k photopolymer printer makes excellent miniatures), a low price of 2-3 dollars per miniature. I order 20+ miniatures per month in print. Now I have ordered a complete analogue of the Mercenary box set and some sets with tanks (15 vehicles, 2 helicopters, 13 mechs), Everything cost me $ 36.30. Plastic hexes similar to the official ones cost 3.5 dollars

@AronFigaro 6 месяцев назад

Usually better stuff than CGL, too, with their low quality urethane.

@thomberg3457 6 месяцев назад

Heck yeah!

@scottypostal 6 месяцев назад

My first minis were 3D prints, I didn’t know if I even wanted to go miniatures. I have a box of the cardboard standies. I could buy exactly want I wanted and when they arrived I was stoked on how awesome they looked. I’ve bought so many official and printed since. My kids are excited about Battletech now and now I’m terrified to paint them cause I don’t wanna mess them up. War against the primers.

@omegavulture8379 6 месяцев назад

It’s only a problem if you make it one. All kinds of mechs are welcome on my battlegrid be they ironwind, catalyst, paper, lego or even croched. Heck, I’ll let you use the plushies if you have them 😂

@DeathfromAboveWargaming 6 месяцев назад

LOL! Though I will say, have seen some crazy lego mechs!

@Dang_Near_Fed_Up 6 месяцев назад

I have grabbed the cap off of the toothpaste as a mech substitute in the past. Drew a line on the "front facing" and viola ready to play. Never underestimate the imagination or creativity of the desperate.

@thebob2700 6 месяцев назад

If you having your prints break after falling over, You got mechs made out of the cheapest resin etsy can supply. If you are using good resin or a specially designed resin they can be stupid durable. Sirayatech resin for example is as bendy as a hero-clix figure(I miss when PMW was a sponsor and still in business, those mechs were top tier)

@DeathfromAboveWargaming 6 месяцев назад

Right - there are definitely high quality resins out there that are durable, but they also aren’t cheap.

@sgtrock2175 6 месяцев назад

I have a few 3D printed Mechs in my collection, which I got only because the metal minis were too puny compared to the newer metals or the plastics. I much prefer the new plastics or the IWM stuff in most cases. I did just grab the Hunchback variants pack, which is free and designed using the new plastic redesign as the base. I printed and painted a 4P variant which is every bit as good as the new plastic and looks great painted up. Having a very nice resin printer helps. I do have LOTS of 3D printed terrain, and in that regard, 3D printing has revolutionized the hobby.

@matthewbirdsall9518 6 месяцев назад

3D printing got me into Battletech in contrast to the IWM sculpts, then CGL rolled out their ongoing remodels in plastic which are really good and have many of us now very hooked. Still only occasionally dipninton3D prints and really just for models not yet represented.

@DeathfromAboveWargaming 6 месяцев назад

And there are so many that are yet to be seen in plastic (and some don’t have IWM sculpts either!)

@cjwestphal397 6 месяцев назад

Almost 100% the reasoning behind every 3D print I own. Especially vehicles and aerotech models.@@DeathfromAboveWargaming

@Zathul4198 6 месяцев назад

Agree. I've fallen in love with the Rime Otter recently, and there is currently no plans for an official mini from Catalyst for at least a couple years. The ONLY way to put that thing on the table would be to grab the STL files I had found of it in some dark recess of the internet and print it.@@DeathfromAboveWargaming

@speeddemonpainting7050 6 месяцев назад

I 3D print a lot of my mechs, not to have a reduced cost... Battletech is very affordable. I 3D print my mechs because the CGL/IWM mini quality (both PVC, the metal ones AND the premium ones) leaves a lot to be desired.

@GreenBlueWalkthrough 6 месяцев назад

I have like 1 hundred or so catslist mechs and a few Ironwind and 1 OG one and they are all great! Like they are second best to my GW minis too... Also how is a home 3D printer almost as good as GW now? Which I do have one or 2 esty/ebay 3D printed minis that are nice but just above the advagre in my collection of mini from a few dozne companies and makers.

@DeathfromAboveWargaming 6 месяцев назад

Fair points!

@speeddemonpainting7050 6 месяцев назад

@@GreenBlueWalkthrough do you know every single GW 'eavy metal painted model is a printed version. Heck, I'm in a group with lots of the CSO painters and they get the files to print for the "official paintjobs" The shrinkage of the PVC models is noticeable to get clean highlights sadly... And the pitting in the metal models is very hit or miss.

@GreenBlueWalkthrough 6 месяцев назад

@@speeddemonpainting7050I mean GW has worse metal models and I never saw with my own eyes or on youtube an FDM or sub $1000 3D printer get close to factory made catsly or GW plastic... Which Warlord is very hit or miss with their resin they could be catlst quality or broken... Infity and Fallout(Sorry blanking on those companies right now) metal is not matched by anyone else and is of Catlsit plastic quality and I have videos on ubnboxing nearly every peice in my collection so anyone can see the quaitly of them... Which like I said I never saw a 3D print beat Catlyst with out needing a major upfront investment and using expensive resin like Enemy spotted studios does not to even mention the $1 barrier then only FDM and injection molded plastic can break... How ever if you prefer the look of your minis that's fine I as authtative trusted press can not say the same to my audince. Which if I had to suggest not catlystist I would say just 2D print and get standees of amazon/temu or just use paper and pencile on grid paper... Like my normal audnce is poor so they can afford something as expensive as a 3D printer and all the consumables with an ecotank 2D printer would be next cheaper to just paper and pencle.

@stuggaroy 6 месяцев назад

3D printing is fine.

@Dang_Near_Fed_Up 6 месяцев назад

And 3D printing will improve as technology advances. So the quality will become better over time as well.

@billcedarheath387 6 месяцев назад

@@Dang_Near_Fed_Up it already has. 8k and 12k resolution printers can match the quality of traditional manufactured minis. You can buy and 8k printer for $300 which isnt a big cost when you consider how much warhammer 40k players spend on armies. With a printer you can print as much as you want and $15 for a bottle resin is far cheaper than the plastic in a box.

@squatchhammer7215 6 месяцев назад

@@billcedarheath387Most complaints about 3d printing is it's not plug and play the other is resin is messy. The first has some validity because it is trying to replace purchasing a readily available product. The second is very valid because it takes a bit of space to work.

@billcedarheath387 6 месяцев назад

@@squatchhammer7215 You’re correct on both accounts. 3d printing is a hobby in itself. It isn’t plug and play like most things in a proper workshop. It’s a tool. Like a lathe, potter’s wheel, or scroll saw. Heck, even a paint brush or air brush that you’ll use to paint your miniatures isn’t plug and play. You need to learn those as well. If people don’t want to spend the time learning a new tool/skill I get it. Not all timelines in a hobby are equal. As for resin being messy… it is when you don’t have a process. To most people that are new to it, it will be messy. I’ve got a process to my resin printing and mess is no different than air brushing. There is an aspect to 3d printing that can be 100% off putting and that is the smell of resin. You find it offensive or not. For those than can’t deal with the smell, I get it. Resin printing won’t be for you. If it doesn’t bother you then you’ll find that in no time flat you have three resin printers printing tons of minis for war gaming and all sorts of other projects. Those that want 3d printing to be plug and play probably don’t have time to learn it, the desire to learn it, or just aren’t the tinkering workshop sort of person that enjoys working with their hands. We all have different likes. For those that embrace the 3d printer as a tool in your tool box they will be rewarded in many ways.

@HouseDavieMerc 6 месяцев назад

Great video. Thanks guys. Once the Merc Kickstarter mechs hit the market I think the use and printing of 3D mechs will slow to a comparative crawl. I think you'll see less full mechs being done but variant parts will probably increase. The big thing that I think will be 3D printed even more is vehicles that aren't set to be released in plastic for a long time. Some commonly used units aren't even available through IWM at all. Combined arms games frequently have Ferret VTOLs fielded and we have to use either proxies or prints for that one for example. I use old model helos from carrier kits to proxy. In scale standard infantry is also MIA here as there are only 2 types available and they are out of scale. As for 3D printed terrain-I just painted up a Hardware studios Retail Megastore from Aries and it's AWESOME! Looks fantastic with led lights inside.

@DeathfromAboveWargaming 6 месяцев назад

Hardware and Thunderhead make some fantastic buildings/terrain - and I am jelly of your lighted buildings. That is on my “to do” list. Also definitely want more 3D printed “bits” for mechs.

@misterbeeps 6 месяцев назад

I see today's 3D printing advocates a lot like the Linux proponents of the early 2000s. You can view them however you want; visionaries or radicals, pioneers or trend chasers. But get on my level, boys. I'm installing Gentoo and sculpting life-sized Thoms out of butter so I can use the HOV lane.

@DeathfromAboveWargaming 6 месяцев назад

LMFAO

@DeathfromAboveWargaming 6 месяцев назад

Im dead hahaha

@thomberg3457 6 месяцев назад

Blast that AC boys!

@Nachbo1234 6 месяцев назад

3D printing is th reason I'm playing battletech now. I left 40k because GW was so strict and prohibitively expensive. Thunderhead Studios is a perfect example of how embracing 3D printing enhances the game and its accessibility. CGL has great models, and I would definitely buy their STLs, if they were available. Most of what I buy from them now is download able content (record sheets, rulebook, and maps) any ways. I hope they lean into it. I think the comments on print quality are moot because even CGL puts paper punch out mechs in it products already. If you want to play the game , then I'm happy to play with you.

@DeathfromAboveWargaming 6 месяцев назад

Thunderhead makes some great stuff!!!

@doomedwit1010 6 месяцев назад

STLs are always a question. I think IP law will catch up. The biggest issue is people selling them. I mean Catalyst can't sell singles because it would destroy IWM.

@jacobzumbrennen3205 6 месяцев назад

While not 3D printing, I use micro armor for generic vehicles/vtols and infantry.

@elijahsnow3119 6 месяцев назад

I think it’s more a gateway. In general I think that it also allows for variants and different things that Catalyst won’t produce. I personally buy from other producers for variants and models. But a lot of that has to do with things unrelated to their business model.

@MrDmitriRavenoff 6 месяцев назад

Dom and Tom have it absolutely right. If they made Mechforge and let us customize and buy the 3d models for a reasonable price, they would make a killing. Think how low the logistics footprint would be? You would have servers, but not need to ship actual product. It has been needed for years. GW would be able to make a lot of money that way as well.

@Kim_Jong-un1356 6 месяцев назад

I own 2 3d printers but I don't print minis for the games I play. I buy the minis to support the games I enjoy so much. I do, however, print all my terrain. I also print custom parts every now and then, like alternative heads for 40k titans or other smaller parts to customizr what I already have bought.

@DeathfromAboveWargaming 6 месяцев назад

If I had 3d printers, this is what I would use them for as well.

@shanepatrick4534 6 месяцев назад

3D printing is awesome. Not only for mechs, but all sorts of tabletop figures. It also keeps us free from companies with questionable moral choices.

@snarkymcsnarkface1863 6 месяцев назад

Nope. 3d printed mechs are not a problem. If CGL/tops makes the best models people will buy them. I have played battletech with magnets glued to coins, on a chunk on sheet metal with maps taped onto it traveling from the Atlantic Ocean to the Pacific Ocean as a kid. Battletech is not CGL or Tops they are simply the rights holders. My rule book was painted in 92 and has fasa on the cover. we still use that rule book today.

@Brofisticus 6 месяцев назад

Every time discussions about guarding IPs like a dragon or cracking down on counterfeits, I'm reminded of that one Blizzcon twitch stream in which they had to dub over Metallica with royalty free shit because they didn't have the rights to the music. Battletech had enough problems with Harmony Gold. If Topps tries to crack down, they're gonna stray into "fuck around and find out" territory.

@wolfehoffmann2697 6 месяцев назад

They've already tried to purge 3D files from a few websites over the years. They always come back though.

@IVIaskerade 6 месяцев назад

In 20 years I reckon we'll have AR technology good enough to have Megamek on tabletop. Being able to use rolling mapsheets, hidden mechs, and automate away all the whole "rolling 2d6 eighteen times to resolve a single weapon" thing are all good for the game, but the biggest advantage will absolutely be the sheer variety of play available to people without having to have an entire shelf of models they've either bought or produced themselves.

@DeathfromAboveWargaming 6 месяцев назад

Haha full VR holotables is the dream!

@thomberg3457 6 месяцев назад

Do you think the microtransaction based AR game will have a higher or lower per mini cost? Based on how video game costs have gone, I’d wager it would somehow be more expensive than plastic haha

@robertbodov912 6 месяцев назад

When we were playing Horus Heresy, me and my friend would live and die by the 3d printer. A lot of official miniatures were either non-existant, or they were so goddamn ugly and expensive, that nobody would really want to buy them) With Battletech I don't really see a reason to buy 3d prints anymore. The sculpts are good and affordable, even with the oversees delivery. I just don't want to deal with the fragility of resin, when I have a choice of buying plastic.

@DeathfromAboveWargaming 6 месяцев назад

I’m with you here - I don’t mind buying prints for the models that don’t “exist” yet, but otherwise I am buying the plastics.

@jiriz0r 6 месяцев назад

I love Mechs with Flamers but imho the Vulcan has the coolest Flamer. It has a little gribbly bit just below the nozzle that looks like it houses a pilot light like on a WW2 flamethrower. Which is stupid and useless because Mech flamers are supposed to be plasma based and don't use jellied petroleum that needs igniting. But it makes it look just that little bit more brutal. Now the Hermes II does have little fuel tank-bits on the flamer arm, just like the Firestarter has on its shoulders, that do lend themselves to some nice details like hazard stripes in a paintjob. So it scores points there, but that still doesn't make it the best flamer on a plastic BattleTech mini imho.

@DeathfromAboveWargaming 6 месяцев назад

mmm yah the Vulcan is great! The resculpt was much needed and has me amped to melt some infantry haha

@jiriz0r 6 месяцев назад

@@DeathfromAboveWargaming When it comes to 40 tonners my heart will always belong to the Mercury even if it's a mediocre mech at best. But from the Merc KS the Vulcan is by far my favourite 40 sculpt. It just looks so odd and lanky yet still vaguely menacing. So I'm looking forward to ruining some poor infantrymen's day with it too!

@OptimusJedi 6 месяцев назад

So the future of wargaming is: you roll up to the holographic table and insert a chip with your army on it. A tastefully yet noticeably more attractive version of yourself appears on the table and trash talks your opponent as it walks towards the center of the table. Your opponent’s character, not as attractive as your own, does the same. Then your armies generate on the table and battle it out.

@DeathfromAboveWargaming 6 месяцев назад

LOL

@ramonjimenez5944 6 месяцев назад

Battletech is miniature agnostic. Always has be, always will be. With the several hundred dollar shipping that was just dropped on backers of the kickstarter this week, i know many people who are asking for refunds to buy printers. So Tom claiming to have never seen a good 3d print will probably change soon.

@DeathfromAboveWargaming 6 месяцев назад

Hah! That shipping thing is a mess. Hopefully it gets resolved… and Thom and I were just chatting about doing a 3D print competition. Send your best!

@calebharris292 6 месяцев назад

I've been printing designs at 160% (museum-ish) scale and I've been getting great results from my fdm printer and they're an absolute joy to paint at that size

@DeathfromAboveWargaming 6 месяцев назад

Yeah - the benefits of being able to scale up/down are very cool… we have talked about even going down and doing massive scale AS battles.

@thomberg3457 6 месяцев назад

I love this! Can you share any pics?

@derekburge5294 6 месяцев назад

I would suggest that most of the complaints levied against 3d printing are pretty well resolved at this point with resin printing. There are simple additives that make the resin far more durable, the resolution has gotten every bit as sharp as CGL's injection molding, and there are 3d modellers that are producing absolutely stunning work. As long as buying minis from CGL involves a grab-bag approach or those heinous loot boxes, 3d printing will have a place and CGL would be foolish to be a pain about it. I put money into the kickstarter and books, but the majority of my collection will almost certainly be resin.

@DeathfromAboveWargaming 6 месяцев назад

Haha I can’t argue with you on the blind boxes

@derekburge5294 6 месяцев назад

@@DeathfromAboveWargaming Who thought they were a good idea? Good grief.

@DeathfromAboveWargaming 6 месяцев назад

@derekburge5294 LOL I got a bunch of salvage boxes in wave 1. 89% of them were Executioners haha

@Fenris86 6 месяцев назад

@@DeathfromAboveWargamingAww man! I'd have loved more Executioners. I got two Turkinas among five boxes and already had two because I wanted two Cauldron Borns. Now I have Clan Starfleet.

@DeathfromAboveWargaming 6 месяцев назад

@Fenris86 lmao Turkinas are def worse than Executioners.

@kailenmitchell8571 6 месяцев назад

Lets look at preference, the Catalyst Centurion is an abomination, I will ways use the MWO print?

@DeathfromAboveWargaming 6 месяцев назад

Haha that’s a little harsh - I like the Centurion 😄 but I know what you mean overall - it’s nice to have an alternate for some sculpts you just don’t love (for me it’s the Banshee)

@theredbeardbard 6 месяцев назад

Same! I love the beefier cent from mwo

@thebob2700 6 месяцев назад

The best Cent is the dark age one, everything else is trash

@TheBloodedCat 6 месяцев назад

I for one have no qualms about buying 3D prints. Without them I'd never have 2 lances of Eris variants!

@Dang_Near_Fed_Up 6 месяцев назад

I like the ability to mod my mechs, so 3D printing is something I want to try. Also I grew up being able to buy individual mechs NOT preselected boxed sets, so I could build my lances / stars without having to buy a dozen mechs half of which I will never use. Also the prices of the boxed sets is insane, if you don't get them during their initial release, because they go out of print / stock. I saw a Clan box set going for over $125 on E-Bay recently. A box set I only wanted 2 of the 5 mechs from, as is very common. I also found mechs going as high as $75 for a single mech. Granted they were already painted, but still. And besides I enjoy painting my own mechs. I want to make them my own, not have a carbon copy of everyone else's.

@jeffreywilliams8018 6 месяцев назад

Ironically, most of my 3D printing has been because I am interested in playing in the current settings (or at least Dark Age plus IlClan), but the official plastic mini’s are several years at a minimum from getting there. I’ve only so far printed freely available STL’s at a local public library which charges for material costs, so the quality of the prints isn’t great, but that’s the only game in town for plastic mini’s at the moment. The ideas you floated in the video seem like they should be a no-brainer even if apparently 3D printing is not being considered based on the recent interview on Sarna. What I really wish CGL would do is offer a print-on-demand group of 2D standees for the eras after 3055 (even including primitive mechs for that matter). I understand that the Clan Invasions Reinforcement was a poor seller (to people who weren’t me), but a print-on-demand version would be an extremely low overhead cost replacement to the concept for the few 2D grognards like me still out there.

@josepablolunasanchez1283 6 месяцев назад

Unseen mech designs are owned by Japanese company Studio Nue. So it means Nattletech is making money with their work and they are not getting any money from it. FASA had licensed unseen from Twentieth Century Imports who do not have a license from Studio Nue.

@satyrulak 6 месяцев назад

i mix and match. I couldnt find a cool old school looking MAD-3R, so I bought one from Catalyst and I got into Battletech through their Alpha Strike box. Their Timberwolf is the best looking one IMO, the MWO style ones you can get from 3D printers I dont like

@DeathfromAboveWargaming 6 месяцев назад

I am with you on this!

@Matthew-jn1tg 6 месяцев назад

Gave Newell once said piracy is a service problem. And it's true for 3d printing. $35 for battle armor is a huge con for me. Using expensive tough resin it's still massively cheaper I also have a greater variety of mechs, vehicles, infantry, and terrain and a variety of detail. My printer is "only" 4k and prints at the same level as cgl. And lastly for the good prints it is a pay once mechanic, I buy the file and build as many as I need.

@RockMongler 6 месяцев назад

CGL's prices for the plastic minis are fine, but sometimes the variety and availability isn't there. Resin being brittle isn't the biggest deal if you have your own 3d printer, because you either repair with superglue or just make a new one.

@GreenBlueWalkthrough 6 месяцев назад

Yeah resin being toxic and only making minis for $1 when catalyst makes then for $3 not counting the type of money you need to buy a 3D printer to get a mini as good as catylst is just ubserd you can have all the catylst mech and more for that money.

@padrespeaks 6 месяцев назад

Fine? Look up the history of price increases over 3 years.

@KTSTHofficial 6 месяцев назад

there are additives for resin now, i have actual bendy antennae on my urbies and they're so cute. brittle is only a thing if you want it to be. :)

@RockMongler 6 месяцев назад

@@GreenBlueWalkthrough More than anything, I got a resin 3d printer for 28mm war gaming/RPG minis and bits. The ability to 3d print battletech stuff was just a bonus. Also, my raw materials cost for a single mech + base + supports is $.25-.50 depending on size. And the 3d printer was less than $160 USD and has print resolution below half the width of a human hair. Resin 3d printing with quality on par with injection molding is truly approaching plug and play levels for non-technically minded people.

@brandonjohns8981 6 месяцев назад

I dislike that you really can’t buy CGL mech individually. It’s a very difficult task to build a custom lance,and it’s expensive. With my 3D printer I can look up old scenario books and print up listed lances quickly. With the new resins, they are just as durable as the CGL plastics. Lastly, some of the CGL mechs just don’t appeal to me (Marauder II).

@flintyewwood7563 5 месяцев назад

I wanna keep proxies as a part of the game not only for tradition but also for younger gamers getting into the game. It's one thing to spend 30 for a book and get a lot of use from the rules and print off sheets from the Mul and the catalyst site. It's a whole other monster as a kid to get a parent to drop 70 on a book and some official minis. We as adults need to remember what it was like as a kid with just pocket money if you were lucky or bare minimums. If only to keep the game out of only our hands as adults with cash to toss at minis keep proxies for the kids getting into it.

@dr.h6493 6 месяцев назад

For the record I 3D print and buy the models from CGL. I think people who own 3d printers already have some disposable income so it’s no big deal to support the games you love as well as other designers. They can coexist.

@DeathfromAboveWargaming 6 месяцев назад

Great comment - agree

@michaelsudsysutherland5353 6 месяцев назад

3D printing presents a pretty un-paralleled tech advantage to publishers by outsourcing the manufacture to the players, or even perhaps licensed 3D print sellers; if game companies want to adapt to the situation. One interesting example of a game that has exploited both the PDF and 3D print digital game distribution for global distribution is One Page Rules (OPR), alongside crowd fund subscriptions (Patreon in their case). As with music and video, it's up to the game publisher to adapt, or go out of business.

@DeathfromAboveWargaming 6 месяцев назад

*looks at Blockbuster* great points!

@GreenBlueWalkthrough 6 месяцев назад

I agree which what I'm doing is become more then one product and just be happy with getting my ideas out there at all... even if I need disability. Also I don't think the TT hobby landscape will be just STLs, free one page rules and 3D printed models only because most people don't want that... they want to be able to get physcal stuff at a good price at a local shop they play there or just get it online and play with friends or play online only... Like lookt at novels how many people write essays in school longer then the minimum for a novel yet never write one? Then what about people who 2D print their books and sell them on a wed site they made by hand? Like if 3D printers can become as cheap, as powerful and as easy to use as 2D printers how many will buy them to make minis even if the quality and price was the same? Like again you can get a PDF of a book then print it at home do you? I got a 2D canon ecotank color mid range printer and could have got a 3D printer instead... I didn't because I need a 2D printer and I don't need a 3D one and I suck at 3D modeling though STLs are nice... But I'm really good at pixel art and can learn 2D printing(Which isn't easy.) so I can just do that and get a 3D printer later when I can 3D art... Which STLs still are not cheap being a third of a esty mini and can be a hassle when 2D for me isn't... and most people wouldrather just order it from amazon. So yeah great video and great discutaion guys!

@KarrasATX 6 месяцев назад

Are we going to completely gloss over the fact that the ones Catalyst sells aren't the best looking models either with mold lines, weapons bent or bending, goofy or generic poses etc? There are exceptions of course but there are 3d printed models I like better and visa versa.

@DeathfromAboveWargaming 6 месяцев назад

That is a good and fair point - and I think you’re dead on about good/bad on both ends.

@philippauli8162 6 месяцев назад

Good on you gentlemen...tackling the 150 ton Amaris super mech in the room. A great discussion as always. See you in the Inner Sphere!

@philippauli8162 6 месяцев назад

Also...that Hermes II just looks so damn cool. I've painted up a few Marik machines, but I'm actively planning to funnel more of my Kickstarter mechs into their ranks.

@DeathfromAboveWargaming 6 месяцев назад

Yah they have done a great job with the redesigns so far - looking forward to getting my hands on it!

@timpage6766 6 месяцев назад

At least 95% of my mechs are official Catalyst mechs but i have 3d printed a small number of special mechs that i wanted to field but are not yet produced by CGL in their current plastics range. Namley Kintaro, Wolftrap, Firestarter, Javelin, Assassin, Ostroc, Ostsol and Hatamoto-Chi. Most of these will be replaced when the Mercs Kickstarter finally arrives in the UK.

@VictorSteiner 6 месяцев назад

21:20 Oh man yes, if McFarlane or that other company that does the 40k models would do posable mechs …. Oh oh.

@dewbert45 6 месяцев назад

There are many reasons to embrace 3D printing, but I am only going to pick on one: design diversity. Battletech has mechs made from many factories over several centuries with many mechs using parts from later production runs (or even other variants). Just to pick out the locust among the hundreds of options, we ought to expect the number of stylistic variations of the LCT-1V to be in the thousands by 3050. Over the course of 200 years designers at factories are going to make changes to the armor angles, armor placement, specific weapon model (even if the same brand). 3D printing does more to build a true battletech universe than CGL ever could with plastic casting. We should see players bring different looking versions of mechs to the table just as we should expect a 3 year old Locust made by Corean Enterprises on Stewart to look different than a 70 year old, 8x rebuilt Locust that is (mostly) made by Majesty Metals out on Canopus.

@DeathfromAboveWargaming 6 месяцев назад

I love this!!!

@Chris-dz3rs 6 месяцев назад

I see a few problems with the CATALYST miniatures. First ,those blind boxes are a rip off .I want to see what I am buying before I pay my money . Second,it seems most of the mechs are mechs that are way too heavy or overpowered . I prefer to play Periphery units ,who tend to use older ,more basic machines. Most periphery units don't tend to have a lot of assault mechs ,much less Clan assault mechs .They are out there ,but not very common . If I use those blind boxes to make a Periphery unit ,I'm likely to have a unit that the Periphery simply couldn't maintain. Third, most mech regiments consist mostly of medium mechs ,usually around 50-60 %. Medium mech minis aren't very common with CATALYST and the light ones are pretty scarce as well. Third ,viehicles ? Haven't seen any. Fourth; CATALYST Minis are tricky to find. Most stores are still waiting for year old backorder to arrive.

@DeathfromAboveWargaming 6 месяцев назад

Fair points! Vehicles will be out soon and hopefully more will be on the way!

@3ggh3ad 6 месяцев назад

overall 3d printing for alternate variants /loadouts also buying a whole lance/star to get 1 mech must suck

@DeathfromAboveWargaming 6 месяцев назад

Two excellent points - especially the last one. Some mechs locked up in big box sets (Battlemaster, etc) which is extra sucky.

@thebob2700 6 месяцев назад

whatever it takes to never ever work with pewter again

@eltoxicdog7587 6 месяцев назад

Seeing as they Catalyst sells a box of about 100 standies for $30, not really.

@lorcannagle 6 месяцев назад

The Standee box sold terrible, it seems. So they won't be repeating that product any time soon

@ColonelEviscerator 5 месяцев назад

3D printed mechs are a problem for Catalyst. Not for Battletech.

@Smokeyraven42 6 месяцев назад

Truth! However,y printers are 400$ elgatos, not 100k machines. And the resin i use is barely more expensive than what the average guy would use. Honestly the major difference between say me and the guy next door is experience. We have the same wrench and the same car, but, I took the time to learn its quirks and the tricks of the trade. In 5 years time, the printers available on Amazon will be capable of 10x the quality I can currently produce. These conversions need to look towards the future not the now. Think back 5 years… this wasn’t even a conversation worth having

@DeathfromAboveWargaming 6 месяцев назад

It is a valid point!

@thomberg3457 6 месяцев назад

Great thought on FutureTech

@anselmoffrisia2930 6 месяцев назад

As I play and read more, im realizing light mechs are seriously under represented. Typically at most there are 2 light mechs per forcepack, but they should be, by far, the highest numbers of mechs available. So I've been printing scads of lights, so there can be lights galore in my campaigns.

@DeathfromAboveWargaming 6 месяцев назад

This makes sense to me! Lots of people posted about the inability to buy single ‘mechs, so I can see where 3D printed models is a much more cost effective way to round out a force.

@thomberg3457 6 месяцев назад

I love playing light mechs. I *hate* playing against them :P

@nappopsOG 6 месяцев назад

I like to see different artests take on different mechs. I like the Ral Partha, i like official and i like 3d prints of all kinds. The mechs have been around for 500 years. They probably have had some body kits in that time.

@DeathfromAboveWargaming 6 месяцев назад

My mind immediately goes to the Rifleman with an oversized spoiler.

@BryceGoodson 6 месяцев назад

Some of the complaints about the quality of 3d prints are down to rooky mistakes in 3d print processes by the person printing the model. There are resins for printing that are comparable in material properties to injection molded plastics. The standard resin that people get is not anywhere near the best for detail or strength. Some of the layer line problems are mitigated by changing the orientation of the print. I think newer printers can give injection molded models a run for their money with a quality model and skilled printer operator. With all that said I just purchased the clan invasion box set.

@DeathfromAboveWargaming 6 месяцев назад

You’re right - and that is from the perspective of a guy that probably owns/operates their own 3D printer. For the majority, they’re buying on ebay/etsy… and those prints largely stink.

@thomberg3457 6 месяцев назад

I feel like we need to have a 3d print guru on to talk us through the state of the scene - maybe we’re way out of touch!

@theRemyLuna 4 месяца назад

Have you or will you be talking in the future about the upcoming model packs from CGL? Id like to hear what the 3 of you think about them.

@DeathfromAboveWargaming 4 месяца назад

It could happen… 🙂

@oldoneswithdice 6 месяцев назад

I'll chime in here. I'm a fan of Catalyst I love how they've cared for a beloved franchise. The quality and value of the products are excellent. For me the main reason people are 3d printing is to get specific mechs and thier varients. There are few points the host incorrect about. 1 in term quality of the sculpts, a quick look at the major 3d print files repositories will find many mechs with better aesthetics and detail than the catalyst sculpts. 2 In terms of cost it's mixed bag if you already have the base equipment mechs even with premium resins cost pennies 3 As for duabilty of resin prints. The early resins and basic resins are very brittle. In the last few years premium resins with properties on par with plastics are available. Ignoring the fact that its sacled to 28mm this catapult looks way better than the catalyst scuplt. ru-vid.comFZ1TKT4CgO4?si=3_OJyCEJMlabigdN

@oldoneswithdice 6 месяцев назад

@SchalaZeal1 I am actually. I've played Battletech since it came out.

@sebastiang.5032 6 месяцев назад

3D prints are fine in small doses. They're great for terrain purposes, though.

@DeathfromAboveWargaming 6 месяцев назад

I am aligned with you here - and agree terrain is a no-brainer.

@jefffreese947 6 месяцев назад

Would also say I feel like CGL is much less threatened by 3DP than a company like GW because the mechs are priced reasonably. Much less economic "threat" when a mech is ~ $5-6 in a force pack vs a single 28mm model being $40+ for GW. You're honestly playing a basic BT game for $30 vs. as much as you wanna spend for GW (but at least $300-400).

@DeathfromAboveWargaming 6 месяцев назад

Right, agree 100% - the size of BT games and required “investment” is way lower than GW (and many other wargames out there!)

@jefffreese947 6 месяцев назад

If people exclusively played BT, agree that 3D printing might not be an issue, because the Force Packs are reasonably priced IMO. But you have more and more folks who have 3D printers for other games (GW) that are price gouging, and its easy for folks then. Most prints might not be current CGL quality, but they're equal or better than the originals or IWM. For a game with the tradition of proxies, its not a problem unless you own CGL and are worried about maximizing revenues. We're talking about what is really a fan run community IMO.

@DeathfromAboveWargaming 6 месяцев назад

Lots of good points in here!!

@Zeoinx69 6 месяцев назад

Look, I love catalyst game labs quality in there miniatures, I also generally dislike the designs of most of the metal ones, if not all. and thats not even going into the price of the metal ones. Then there are the 3d printed ones, while I personally don't own a 3D Printer, i have gotten mechs printed and in all honesty, they are an amazing technological achievement (the 3d printers not the minis themselves). It also Allows fans to PICK what they like, but still participate in the hobby when the artistic design doesn't line up with the fans aesthetic mind set of said mech or unit design. Good example, I personally HATE cataylst game labs design of the King Crab, I also ABHOR the metal version. What I do like is the one based on Mech Warrior Online / 4. And I got that one 3D printed, primed, and painted, and now sitting happy on my self along side my other various catalyst game labs mini's. In this case, and many cases like it, Catalyst game labs, nor any other company who CURRENTLY sells the King Crab (officially) is going to lose profits, as I wouldnt have spent my money with them at all to begin with. Just because a new game owner released something, doesnt mean I should be forced to buy that exact version of said mech in order to play it. Battletech has been around since the 80s and quite frankly, just let people have fun instead of attempting to take another beloved 80s era IP, and put it in chains and locked up in an attempt to milk it for all it can before its burned husk of its former self.

@DeathfromAboveWargaming 6 месяцев назад

Excellent excellent excellent comment. Lots of good thoughts in here - and I generally agree with you. The key phrase you used is “participate in the hobby” Good stuff!!!!

@ralphsexton8531 6 месяцев назад

I think Dom's idea that 3d printing will just be part of the service like streaming makes a lot of sense. As to print quality, my cheap $250 printer from Anycubic can give the Catalyst models a run for their money. And frankly, even some of Ironwind's casts need to be replaced. Heck, my friend has an Ironwind Titan 2, with worse 3d print lines on its shoulders than anything our printers do, and it is pricy pewter. As far as my thoughts on the morality of printing... if the company offers quality at a fair price, and is respectful of loyal customers, then limiting printing to unavailable or custom models is the right way to go. If the company gets nasty towards the paying customer and/or charges ridiculous prices, then I tend to stop caring as much. Pretty much, if the company says they don't want or need me, well... I don't necessarily need them either.

@DeathfromAboveWargaming 6 месяцев назад

Great thoughts and well-constructed comment! Thanks for sharing! I think I largely agree - especially with respect to IWM. Though definitely a difference between “printing for yourself” and “selling printed models” in terms of the ethical side. Like, I have zero issue with people printing stuff for their own collection - no different than building a mech out of legos, spare 40k bits, or making your own cardboard standees!

@JustinPivinski-cm2rh 6 месяцев назад

Couple things. Battletech is very affordable to begin with so cost isn't as much a factor I think vs say 40k which is extremely overpriced imo. Another thing us I think cgl has a much better relationship with the customers vs gw. Even me personally I support catalyst directly and it doesn't feel bad vs I would never buy from gw directly. I feel like 3d printing usually comes back to cost or options.

@DeathfromAboveWargaming 6 месяцев назад

Agree with everything here - BT is very affordable compared to most 28mm games. Even the terrain is cheaper. Now…. 3D printed turbos, intercoolers and fuel injectors when?

@delaneyalusa 6 месяцев назад

There are many mechs or vehicles you cannot get in cgl or iwm. Most stock 3d prints are not even correct scale. You have to fiddle to get them larger. Also 3d is not as detailed. I only use 3d prints if a mech is not available or if the metal version sucks. I don't like to assemble metal mechs they don't go together well and are a hassle. More the most part I use cgl

@DeathfromAboveWargaming 6 месяцев назад

This is typically where I will indulge. I have a 3D printed Avatar, Fafnir, Thanatos… I bought an IWM Avatar and the scale was so awful. I tried!

@PainfulMiniReviews 24 дня назад

My biggest issue with 3D printed mechs is that I simply don't like most of the models. There are a few STLs that I like, but most of the mechs just look wrong to me. Many of them are too flat with too few details. I assume that's because they were designed to be rendered quickly in a video game. But they all just look a bit off to me.

@jonmattison3939 Месяц назад

If Catalyst produces/sells miniatures at a reasonable price, I will always purchase their models. If I find some good alternative or missing sculpts printed in good quality by someone else I will likely add to my collection that way. I have a busy life, not enough time to hobby/game as-is, so the last thing I'm interested in doing is purchasing my own 3D printer and wading into the 'hobby' of 3D printing and time/energy/troubleshooting that entails. In other words, for now, I feel that the barrier-to-entry/learning curve is too great for me. I'm sure there is a point where the time and energy invested in purchasing a 3d printer and printing my own miniatures would 'pay for itself' but I don't see that in the cards in the near future.

@Kingofdragons117 6 месяцев назад

If the K-con leaks are accurate then there are basically no plans for Marik mechs or more vehicles except for a clan box for years. If CGL won’t provide then I will 3D print.

@DeathfromAboveWargaming 6 месяцев назад

FWL 4 Lyfe

@Sigil_Firebrand 4 месяца назад

I got a 3d printer both because its cool and to spite GW, I have 2 entirely 3d printed Battletech armies at this point and even made some models myself when there were no models for a given mech, or at least none i liked. But I also have 2 entirely official armies, and until the recent dramas was a staunch supporter of CGL. Using resin ive only ever had one mini break from a drop and it was fresh out of the printer and hadnt been cured yet. And more then that id take a good quality resin PRINT over most CAST resin models any day.

@Jok395 4 месяца назад

I can't remember when, but I recall a Sarna interview where CGL had floated the idea of selling STLs, but Topps wasn't budging. I really hope something happens there.

@kailenmitchell8571 6 месяцев назад

I can also state as 3d printing enthusiast I print way more terrain than anything else. Maybe 80%. I love Battletech and have 700$ between both Kickstarters. You can make really good mech prints but they are indeed fragile.

@Wake-Less Месяц назад

Big fan of your vids! If you need a 3d designer to talk to about printing maybe in a jump point or just if your curious id love to chat!

@billcedarheath387 6 месяцев назад

The comments made in the video are from a dated mindset. New resins like “ABS like” resin is very durable. As far as layer lines… current 8k - 12k resolution resin printers are quite on par with retail manufacturing. Savings on 3D prints are when you print them yourself. Buying 3d prints from Etsy isn’t saving you money. Printing your own on an 8k to 12k using a durable resin is the way to go.

@DeathfromAboveWargaming 6 месяцев назад

I think you’re making a fair point, but also operating under the premise that everyone can afford a quality 3D printer, has the space, or even wants one.

@billcedarheath387 6 месяцев назад

@@DeathfromAboveWargaming Buy a few armies from GW or buy a printer and print as many armies you want that cost on average 20 cents worth of resin. If you can buy armies… you can afford a printer. Then, after you start printing your own you discover you can buy another printer with the money you saved. I have 4 printers now. 😉 I get it that printers aren’t for everyone. Doesn’t mean that printing is a bad thing just because they don’t do it. I just discovered your channel btw. Really glad I did and you got an immediate sub from me. Really good stuff.

@DeathfromAboveWargaming 6 месяцев назад

Haha this is why I stopped playing 40k… I died inside when they released all the primaris stuff and removed nurgle bikers from the rules. But all good points and great discussion! Also glad you found us and thanks for subscribing! 🙂👍

@billcedarheath387 6 месяцев назад

@@DeathfromAboveWargaming Having engagement to give you a +2 in your rolls against the algorithm. 😉 I’m in the old guard of Battletech and never went to 40k. I discovered Battletech in 1984 as it seemed to take over the squadron dormitory while I was in the USAF. Stopped playing for a while, but I’m back and glad to have found your channel. Good source of info for Alpha Strike.👍

@DeathfromAboveWargaming 6 месяцев назад

@billcedarheath387 I need every bonus I can get against the algorithm!!!

@josepablolunasanchez1283 6 месяцев назад

With AI there will be only ONE winner, either copyright or AI. And the money is in the side of AI.

@DeathfromAboveWargaming 6 месяцев назад

I can’t argue with you!!

@nyandyn 6 месяцев назад

I fully approve of 3D printing. The miniatures themselves are reasonably priced for western audiences, but 1) Catalyst's international shipping prices are abusive and 2) I've had it with the "protect the IPR" bullshit in the social media and subreddit policy.

@DeathfromAboveWargaming 6 месяцев назад

I have (for a few years now!) heard the international community’s frustration with availability & shipping costs. Definitely something to look into on the CGL side.

@billcedarheath387 6 месяцев назад

Companies should be adopting the selling official STL files and let customers decide if they want the physical copy or a digital file. Shipping costs are ridiculous and availability in local retail doesn’t fit all players. I have no game stores local to me and the mainstream sources don’t have Battletech in stock. Add in VR gaming tables and nobody is going to buy physical models. The world is changing but game companies aren’t keeping pace.

@DeathfromAboveWargaming 6 месяцев назад

100% agree here - this should be an option moving forward. To tie into your other great comment … while top quality 3D printers aren’t necessarily an everyday household item in 2024… they very well may be in 2034.

@billcedarheath387 6 месяцев назад

@@DeathfromAboveWargaming Top quality 3d printers are very much a household item for miniature wargame players that print their own minis. To add to the business model that game companies haven’t embraced yet… subscription based miniatures like you’ll find being offered on Patreon and MyMiniFactory. There are loads of designers making seriously good minis. I see loads of people in Discord channels for designers. We all have higher end printers as that is what has become the standard. I’d would do the typical Patreon subscription where you get about 10+ files for $15 every month. This would be fantastic if official Battletech mechs could be had in the way.

@Dakkss 6 месяцев назад

If they had the capability to enforce it, CGL would make it a major issue. The fact that they can't enforce it just goes to show you Battletech is still languishing in widespread competitive scenes.

@wolfehoffmann2697 6 месяцев назад

That's for the best. Warhammer 40K has a large comp scene and we see what that's done to the game. I own a store, I sell the game, but I won't even play it anymore. GW has sapped all of my love and interest for it with their mishandling of the rules for three solid editions now. 8th had good core rule changes, and then they immediately screwed it up with power creep so bad that they were releasing second versions of army books from early in the edition by the end of it. 9th was a shitshow, and 10th is another unplayable gotcha card game with miniatures. If I thought I could keep the shop profitable without selling GW shit, I would just drop their products entirely. At least I have also managed to cultivate a healthy community of Legion, Battletech and Bolt Action players. And most of them play at least 2, sometimes 3 out of the 4 big games in the store. I wish Fallout would have taken off better, but locals didn't like the rules much. Hopefully the new Fallout: Factions release will be more to their liking. I'd like to actually take my collection out of the show case and use it once in a while.

@Dakkss 6 месяцев назад

@@wolfehoffmann2697 Yes, it is for the best. I just suspect Catalyst wants to take it way though. I saw in Ray Arrastia's pipeline they're finalizing "official" tournament play or something to that effect. And everything else they've been doing smacks of wanting to sterilize everything for widespread appeal specifically to increase tournaments and public presence.

@TheBloodedCat 6 месяцев назад

Maybe that's the Hermes 7A sculpt - clan UAC 10, med x pulse, and a flamer

@TinBane 6 месяцев назад

The mice idea has legs (lol). You could keep them on the mice and put chips in their brains so you don’t have to move your minis. I’m sure PETA would love it, which would be free marketing for Battletech 😂

@DeathfromAboveWargaming 6 месяцев назад

hahah fantastic

@GreenBlueWalkthrough 6 месяцев назад

Guys what has catylst done exactly? Like how are they worse then GW?

@Deepkeel 6 месяцев назад

Not worse **yet**

@thomberg3457 6 месяцев назад

I hate to hate on GW but I do kinda hate everything about their product strategy. Constant churn etc. However, I think a lot of people love that and want their hobby to be fast paced so I’m not saying it’s defacto bad, just to me.

@thomberg3457 6 месяцев назад

And catalyst is fine. Love battletech and they are doing lots of great stuff for the game. Always things to criticize but on balance trajectory going up.

@kalixascsi66 6 месяцев назад

Nothing is wrong with 3D prints.

@BjornKuma 6 месяцев назад

I'm sorry, but you gents need to get caught up on modern printers. My GKtwo (8k) absolutely produces better prints than the CGL plastics. They are sharper and cleaner, and I get to choose the resin type (ABS like/Tough) for extra durability. If the models are oriented properly during printing, there are no physical layer lines, and they take paint as well as any molded plastic. Things have changed a lot in the last 3 years, and there is no longer a sacrifice in fidelity between the 3d model and the physical print.

@DeathfromAboveWargaming 6 месяцев назад

A couple others made this point - but my counter argument is, sure, you can absolutely get a better result if you are an expert at 3D printing. Most people are buying minis off the shelf from ebay or etsy. And those prints largely suck. You are comparing investing in an $850 printer to spending $30 bucks for a 4 pack of mechs. It’s not apples-to-apples. I’m not arguing about the quality of top level printers, but most people print because (a) they can’t get the models, (b) they can’t afford the models, or (c) the specific unit/variant doesn’t exist. Do the math. If I am an “average consumer” I would need to buy over 100 mechs before owning your printer starts to save me money…

@BjornKuma 6 месяцев назад

@@DeathfromAboveWargaming I apologize if I came off as harsh, but you seemed to be discussing printing 5 years ago rather than today. While I can't disagree on principle, my hobby extends passed BT so being able to participate in any game for pennies on the dollar pays off my printer way sooner than just printing mechs. A lot of hobbyists are realizing this, and while the GKtwo is an expensive example, there are plenty of printers that are cheaper (with less bells and whistles) that can produce similar results in 8k+. Depending on how heavy the Lances are I can fit 15-20 mechs on a single build plate which costs about $2.50 in resin and takes about 4 hours. So I can easily do that 100 mechs in a day or 2 (I have). But on top of that, I can also print a huge King Crab or Atlas statue for my desk for a similar cost to that 100 mechs, that would cost half my printer to get printed for me. Now consider terrain as well. I can print a table full of BT/Epic scale terrain for less than the cost of a single retail box of the same, like a simple Hab-block building. So, as you can see, even an investment like the GKtwo pays itself back quite quickly for an active hobbyists. The great thing about the GKtwo is that I printed all winter in sub zero (f) temps with zero issues. Something else to note, to mark the changing of the hobby, is that Mantic, Modiphius and Wargames Atlantic all have STL stores on My Mini Factory now where you can buy files directly from them. WA actually has a monthly Tribe (sub) where you get a whole suite of units every month. Why maintain a factory when everyone can be a factory?

@Fenris86 6 месяцев назад

Have to agree here. I bought a few 'mechs not available from CGL on etsy on a whim. What I got was the same or better quality than CGL stuff. Only one of them (Uziel) has layer lines and you only really notice when you flip it on top of its head. And then there is the benefit of me being able to buy Black Knights and Timber Wolves in bulk.

@DeathfromAboveWargaming 6 месяцев назад

To argue both sides: not everyone can have their own in-home factory (or wants to)… but I think we all advocated in this episode that gaming companies do need to embrace 3D printing as a way to expand their product availability. So we are in violent agreement 🙂 But I still have yet to get a good 3D print (scale, quality, durability, cost) from ebay or etsy. I mentioned on the channel Sage Print which is insane quality, and PMW was a partner of the channel (and I still use some of his stuff)… but the majority of ebay stuff is not near that level in my experience.

@DeathfromAboveWargaming 6 месяцев назад

@BjornKuma and PS no need to apologize! Comments are comments! We can fight about it and come to a common understanding - that is healthy debate!! Thanks for the contributions!!

@NeroPrime 6 месяцев назад

3d printing is fine. CGL/Topps should sell the STL files. I like the idea of a remixing service like Hero Forge.

@DeathfromAboveWargaming 6 месяцев назад

100%. I think people would pay more than full price for a reprintable STL “single”. Thinking back on this episode - The challenge is trying to make sure people aren’t sharing the files or reselling prints.