Bayonet Fencing - Nick vs Esther

Подписаться 66 тыс.

Просмотров 31 тыс.

50% 1

Using the new Bayonet training muskets/rifles from Black Fencer. These are about half the weight of an original Brown Bess (Land pattern) musket, which seems to be about a happy middle ground between realism and safety. The musket is completely rigid, whilst the bayonet flexes well. Inevitably we have to take it easy with strikes with the stock.

Опубликовано:

11 сен 2024

Ссылка:

Скачать:

Готовим ссылку...

Добавить в:

Мой плейлист

Посмотреть позже

Комментарии : 126

@AlphaPlayer9000 5 лет назад

It's like a spear fight, but weird

@Ajay-lu4je 4 года назад

It isn't weird

@Kaiser_von_Europa 2 года назад

Spear fight but the spear shaft is half of your body

@sootys4024 5 лет назад

This used to be a proper real military sport. I had a go on one of the original training rifles a while ago, full weight but a slightly simpler shape and a bit of guard built in for the right hand. The "bayonet" is a metal rod with a steel knob on the end which is cleverly sprung so when you push on the tip, the rod slides back inside the barrel.

@AcademyofHistoricalFencing 5 лет назад

Indeed, I have one of those antique bayonet trainers too. The Greener bayonet training musket, my one was made in 1915. They are a nice piece of kit, Both that and flexible blade varieties were used historically. I like the rigidity of the plunger type for parries, but prefer the flexible type for strikes, The plunger strikes often go unnoticed. Also one huge advantage in the ones we are using here is the offset bayonet with 'elbow'. It changes a lot of the fight from both an offensive and defensive basis. Until now we had always used straight bayonet trainers, and going to these we found a world of difference.

@jamesconlon8429 5 лет назад

This makes me want to play Mount & Blade Napoleonic Wars

@labbyshepherdpuppy5943 5 лет назад

And not a single shot was fired

@MonguinAssassin 5 лет назад

Didn't have time to muzzle load a single shot. That's why this is happening.

@retardcorpsman 4 года назад

The amount of likes in this comment is perfect

@MrTroll103 3 года назад

@@MonguinAssassin I see you're a man of culture as well

@greyareaRK1 5 лет назад

The version with loaded muskets is much shorter.

@dreefy6020 3 года назад

Hahahahahaha

@communism_is_wrong7167 3 года назад

Until you fire that one shot and missed because of powder fowling

@Jake-qc3mj 3 года назад

Imagine you're a grenadine fighting in the napoleonic wars. You have years of experience in bayonet training, only to have your face blown off by an opponent who remembered his gun was still loaded.

@tugalord 2 года назад

And that opponent is a random conscript that barely knows how to fight

@Oof-th5hz Год назад

Biggest bruh moment LMAOOOOOOOOO

@silverhawkscape2677 3 месяца назад

@@tugalord So an Accidental Discharge

@britishmuzzleloaders 5 лет назад

I enjoyed that immensely. Now, I am by no means a fencer with the bayonet or sword, but watching this, a few questions arose... While the skills and techniques exhibited here would of course build confidence and strength with the weapon, the actual circumstances of this session in particular, would seem to be somewhat different to the circumstances that would have been found on the battlefield. Now,... that is not my point.... What would thoughts be towards trying to apply these skills in the context of an attack on another body of soldiers?... Some kind of rule or guidance that mimics the surroundings of a man (or in this case, woman) in the front rank of an attacking unit... i.e. there are people beside you, and people behind you, all in close proximity. There would be very little space to manoeuvre, and certainly one could not jump back, out of the way as there would be someone right there, following on... the sparring attack would almost be as if you were being pushed (figuratively, not physically) forward to meet your opponent.... Just some musings of how different circumstances might affect things... Again, great to see bayonet fencing in use...

@AcademyofHistoricalFencing 5 лет назад

Some good questions. No doubt the scenario represented here is one on one in a fairly open space. It happened, but was not the most common occurrence of bayonet combat by a long way. We will look more in to melee usage and tighter spaces as we go along. This is the first time we have had a realistic bayonet trainer, so it is early days. Simple things like the offset bayonet and mass distribution change things substantially over training tools we have previously used. Now, as far as how it would change, we have done a lot of melee combat with swords, and when it comes to melee, there is far less of the back and forth movement, except where one side if breaching and pushing hard. Because it's dangerous for one to advance without support and so the other side need not go back. So a lot of bayonet combat may be decided by either the charge, or, a relative maintenance of distance, as opposed to the very much duel style adjustment of distance seen here. Considering the bayonet in frantic scenarios like the charge, and in sieges is a really interesting subject. We will dabble with it more as we get more of them.

@IanSumallo 5 лет назад

@@AcademyofHistoricalFencing Also, there's not much use of the butt of the rifle as usually encouraged in army training - or is it far too impractical or risky?

@britishmuzzleloaders 5 лет назад

@@AcademyofHistoricalFencing I hope you'll do more of this kind of stuff. That sounds like something worth waiting for! Your fencing muskets seem to be the right tool for the job! Cheers!

@jordanreeseyre 5 лет назад

@@IanSumallo In my experience the sheer difference in reach between this full sized musket point limits the opportunities to strike with the but. This would be even worse if you had to swing it through 180 degrees in a crowded formation.

@AcademyofHistoricalFencing 5 лет назад

@@IanSumallo Use of the butt is encouraged in 20th century bayonet manuals certainly, but it is usually not in 18th and 19th century ones. That is probably for a number of reasons, the lack of an edge on the bayonets, their overall length, and their use in lines rather than loose skirmishing. We know they were used in improvised means, particularly when the bayonet was not attached. It is something we occasionally use but do have to be careful as there is no way to make them safe.

@nothim7321 5 лет назад

When getting bound up close, remember the butt, the butt man. Put your butt right into the opponent's face and make them regret getting so close...

@ErikMoroni 5 лет назад

It'd be nice to see bayonet vs military sabre, or scottish broadsword!

@AcademyofHistoricalFencing 5 лет назад

That will be coming very soon.

@IRON_KING_KNIGHT 5 лет назад

Erik Medeiros Isn’t it a bit hard for the spearman?

@MonguinAssassin 5 лет назад

@@IRON_KING_KNIGHT It might be, comes think of it. I didn't understand why the Greatsword was short lived.

@krieger8825 3 года назад

@@MonguinAssassin Cause it's a sword, other than hacking at the pike people's backs, what is it good for?

@jusjetz 5 месяцев назад

A Gun with a Bayonet is a Spear that goes Boom, A Gun without a Bayonet is a Stick that goes Boom.

@acephantom903 5 лет назад

Interesting. Nick was so much more competent with deflections. I was struggling to identify why. Is it just that Esther was locking with him where he was stronger and able to block her thrusts opening her up for a counter?

@Est292 5 лет назад

It was my first time playing with the bayonet trainers. Nick has both had some more practice with these trainers, so I was winging it some of the time! :)

@acephantom903 5 лет назад

@@Est292 Ah, that would explain it. This was the first time I saw it on here so I figured both of you were winging it using spear practice to try to translate it. You aren't exactly a newbie. :)

@Est292 5 лет назад

@@acephantom903 Of course, I was basically adapting my longsword/spear technique so some things worked and others weren't apparently obvious! :) I'm looking forward to training more and finding out some secrets and interesting locks and techniques! :)

@acephantom903 5 лет назад

@@Est292 You might be able to find some modern bayonet manuals online to try and follow. Wouldn't be exact but might be close enough to bridge the gap. :)

@strycian 5 лет назад

It's very different from how we're taught in Marine Corps.

@midshipman8654 5 лет назад

No I’d assume modern bayonet training is quit a bit deferent given the size and weight of rifles over the past half decade as well as the very different context of warfare.

@nothim7321 5 лет назад

Remember the weapon you are using in the corps is drastically shorter and lighter with a knife edged and shaped bayonet instead of a tri edged epee style of bayonet. Really with length of the carbines and bayonets currently in issue with most militaries in the world, you'd probably be better off using the rifle off hand for intercepting attacks and the bayonet as just a large knife in the primary hand in close quarters.

@levifontaine8186 5 лет назад

Not to mention the fact that there’s 30 round magazines. Back then they had one shot so close combat was more common.

@AcademyofHistoricalFencing 5 лет назад

Indeed, its quite a different weapon. No cutting edge, a lot more length, Also bayonet training back with these types was intended for line infantry, not for the open order more recent bayonet combat is. If you compare 19th century bayonet manuals to WW2 ones for example, they are very different. The cuts with the bayonet and butt strikes being such a key part is massive difference in itself.

@arx3516 5 лет назад

You don't use long muskets anymore!

@alexkane8881 2 года назад

Got to spare with a friend today. Used a longsword but I didnt like the traditional fighting style, I instead used it as a bayonet and I really enjoyed that. Glad I found this channel because it was so much fun and now I can learn some bayonet fencing.

@solo-bayonetas 5 лет назад

Amazing, Thumbs up for your fencing performance! Great video!

@HebaruSan 5 лет назад

Interesting that the offset portion is functional, almost like a small guard.

@AcademyofHistoricalFencing 5 лет назад

Very, it is the most significant change we have seen moving to these Black Fencer models, as previous bayonet trainers we have had were straight, The offset bayonet changes a number of things offensively and defensively. It can trap, bind and hook, both in your favour and against it. Also the 'elbow' of the bayonet is specifically mentioned in Roworth's Art of Defence manual (1798), as where to parry when using sabre against it, as it allows you to use it as a trap.

@themutualfriend5286 5 лет назад

Wow this is new . :)

@johnyricco1220 5 лет назад

Bayonet vs khukuri and rifle as parrying stick combo.

@secutorprimus 5 лет назад

Wasn't that also an American thing? In the 1700s?

@nothim7321 5 лет назад

@@secutorprimus it was with a large knife or tomahawk from the late 18th to the early 19th century in some, I believe, privately published manuals for various militia drills.

@IRON_KING_KNIGHT 5 лет назад

TheBeastWithin America was a colony to the British at that time. But not exactly at 1700. More like in the 1780 or so. Correct me if i’m wrong plz

@secutorprimus 5 лет назад

@@IRON_KING_KNIGHT I meant around 1776-ish, yeah

@SuperOtter13 5 лет назад

Very cool thank you for sharing. I remember somebody (maybe mr. Easton) showing an antique musket trainer with a bayonet that had a button on the tip and was spring loaded to make stabbing safer. As far as I know nobody makes such thing these days. And if some one could make something similar it would sell like crazy in the HEMA comunity. Would you agree? Are these trainers prototypes ? I didnt see them on the website. As always great video. Thanks again.

@AcademyofHistoricalFencing 5 лет назад

Yes I have one of the same plunger type Greener bayonet training muskets like Matt has. They're an interesting concept. I've used mine for some light drills as he has, but they can be quite dangerous due to their weight and mass, Nobody makes them today no. If they did, well it could be interesting. However, having an offset bayonet and the elbow it creates, it changes the fight dramatically, and makes it far more representative of the original musket and socket bayonet than a straight up and down trainer does. That elbow is so important to the fight. These are production versions, they are on the BF website now.

@lichttragerin1190 5 лет назад

Were do you buy your Training weapons?

@satkum2101 5 лет назад

Lichttragerin black fencer check the description

@AcademyofHistoricalFencing 5 лет назад

blackfencer.com/en/home/167-rifle-with-bayonet.html

@Zetsubou1995 5 лет назад

where can I but fencing musket like in video please?

@tungsten4422 5 лет назад

Blackfencer

@inawarminister 5 лет назад

Mount and Blade, Napoleonic warfare

@paulwilkinson4523 5 лет назад

These look like tons of fun! It opens up all sorts of fencing possibilities and scenarios too. Ie: 2 or 3 muskets and bayonets in formation vs highland broadsword sabre or spadroon! Can you replace the bayonets if they break or take a set? Are they sold separately? Also what treaties can I look at that show techniques for musket and bayonet? Thanks.

@AcademyofHistoricalFencing 5 лет назад

Yep, we'll be posting combinations and melee stuff soon. Yes they sell the bayonets separately, they just push on and off. Have a look for Angelo's bayonet exercise, it is freely available online.

@levifontaine8186 5 лет назад

Now I wanna see sabre vs multiple bayonets

@Dywik86 5 месяцев назад

I have a question about historical warfare. During battles, soldiers often wielded swords while simultaneously holding a musket with a bayonet attached. Were there manuals or guides on how to effectively fight in this manner? In the video shared, it seems to focus solely on bayonet fighting! :)

@Kayser2802 2 месяца назад

During these times, I would assume early 1800, soldiers who used muskets with bayonets sometimes didn't even use or bring sabres, sabres turned into a weapon just for looks or for officers

@Canal_Marte 2 года назад

Where can i get a detailed set of photos of this weapon for trying to reproduce it?

@normtrooper4392 5 лет назад

Just a question about the items themselves. How do you rate the durability of the lock and trigger on these? While it definitely makes them look nicer, aren't they a little bit more fragile than the overall piece?

@AcademyofHistoricalFencing 5 лет назад

Those components are quite thick and the material is incredibly durable. We'll only know in time, but they are exceptionally strong.

@BernasLL 2 года назад

Useful skill in 2022.

@SuperOtter13 5 лет назад

After landing a few good hits is it hard not to be mad at eachother after class? I sometimes need to take a break from sparing with family or people Im close to. My wife doesnt spar but my sons and brothers do and ocasionaly there is some resentment about landed blows and such. Its all fun and games to me but not allways to the rest of the family. It was a real quiet drive home last night after sparing practice is why I ask.

@AcademyofHistoricalFencing 5 лет назад

Nope, we've never had that.

@waldemar4149 7 месяцев назад

Интересно , а вес этих палочек соответствует весу ружья 18 века ? Полагаю что весили они что то около 5 кг.

@juliosunga3530 4 года назад

Dunno why they have triggers. Anyway, Tenno heika, Banzai!

@Zaku186 4 года назад

That looks like good training

@10madbananas 10 месяцев назад

woah!

@pirelo5935 Год назад

Where did u get the practice rifles and bayonets?

@AcademyofHistoricalFencing Год назад

Here - blackfencer.com/en/exotic-weapons-synthetic/167-rifle-with-bayonet.html?search_query=musket&results=2

@faaltoh 5 лет назад

Great technique, however I feel like a lot of opportunities to kick, tackle, leg sweep et c were missed. Is this intentional? Whats allowed here?

@AcademyofHistoricalFencing 5 лет назад

At this stage they are new and we're working on the bayonet fencing that is seen in manuals of the 19th century. Certainly rougher close up stuff happened in the reality of combat, and was included in later manuals too (especially as the weapons were shorter and with cutting edges). So it's not that they are not allowed, just not being used in this particular bout as we test the systems and training weapons. You'll see all that in other videos though.

@faaltoh 5 лет назад

@@AcademyofHistoricalFencing Sweet! Thanks for the reply. Looking forward to it!

@Figgy_Tree 2 года назад

I have in immense phobia of needles and getting stabbed. This is definitely a scary way to fight a man. Before anyone says anything, obviously getting stabbed in a fight is scary, I just mean I've legit had nightmares in warfare of me getting a bayonet in my heart. Though musket style warfare is freaky in general, those tight formations of musketeers, never know when your gonna get hit.... Eeesh

@misterbasileo Месяц назад

Bro got ptsd without even being on the war

@JamesWillmus Год назад

Parry, pivot, thrust.

@thetexan1011 4 года назад

Now i wan't to buy a musket.

@nijingnima124 2 года назад

arent bayonets longer than those in the video

@AcademyofHistoricalFencing 2 года назад

It depends greatly on which period and individual musket you look at. These bayonets are within 1-2cm of the british brown bess, or land pattern musket bayonet, used through the 18th and early 19th century. Overall both the musket and bayonet used in this video is about the same size as the India and New Land Pattern muskets most commonly used by the British in the Napoleonic era.

@nijingnima124 Год назад

@@AcademyofHistoricalFencing really, i thought baypnets were longer, maybe those are tall men

@saoirse5308 4 года назад

It does say "Bayonet Fencing" yet somehow I expected butt strokes & Drives. I guess I never imagined there was " Genteel" Bayonet fighting. Vary cool. Teach me! Not to assume.

@AcademyofHistoricalFencing 4 года назад

This is a common feeling from anywone with experience of modern bayonet practice. 20th century bayonet practice is very, very different to 18th and 19th century bayonet usage. The main reasons for this are that the weapons got a lot shorter, gained cutting edges, and combat became skirmish rather than line based. If you look at any 18th and 19th century bayonet manuals and compare them to say, WW2 and more recent examples, they are a world apart. The US Marines for example use pugil stick and are taught to simply run at their opponent, close the distance and strike violently with both ends of the weapon. But early on, reach and distance were used, and no cutting edges. Butt strokes were comparitively reare as a result.

@hopefulhyena3400 4 года назад

How is this different from spear sparring?

@AcademyofHistoricalFencing 4 года назад

Not very. In fact the bayonet and the spontoon (spear of the period), were used the same way. Though the musket and bayonet is a bit more inweildy and shorter. The one big difference is the elbow of the bayonet, as it can be used to trap, push and pull the opponents musket. This can also be used against them when using a sword, as outlined in some manuals of the time, parrying into the elbow for a firm bind.

@fab006 5 лет назад

I know it’s annoying to get drive-by comments nagging, but those look awfully light and nimble in the hand. What do they weigh, and how do they compare with real guns?

@AcademyofHistoricalFencing 5 лет назад

About half the weight of a brown bess and bayonet. With about the correct mass distribution. We find them about the happy middle ground between realism and safety.

@fab006 5 лет назад

Do you practice with heavier simulators (or real guns, though that might be unlikely) outside of sparring? Do you find the additional weight makes it significantly different to use?

@Barisdagame 2 года назад

I need one but can't navigate their page

@AcademyofHistoricalFencing 2 года назад

Here - blackfencer.com/en/exotic-weapons-synthetic/167-rifle-with-bayonet.html

@ViceN53X Год назад

I wanna see a marine try bayonet fencing

@AcademyofHistoricalFencing Год назад

The comparisons and huge differences between 19thc bayonet and the practices of modern day US marine bayonet training is actually really facinating, and I have been meaning to make some videos about this. In short, the weapon size, bayonet type, handling, and battlefield circumstances of their use mean the difference is absolutely vast. We do intned to make up some pugil sticks that are built in a way that represents 19th century weapons and do a hybrid of the bayonet fencing and Marine Bayonet combat. Not only was the style different, butt he training methods were also very different too, and I think it could be very valuable to merge the two together.

@TwoMikesProductions 4 года назад

Wonderful video! I assume you are already aware of Jono Roes superb bayonet fencing rifle reproductions that he's making in Australia. If not, check out Spring Bayonet Workshop on facebook for some cracking stuff there. I did a talk with Dr Hester of the School of Mars for the Arms and Armour society at the Tower of London recently with a pair of original 1915 MkIX Greener Fencing Rifles. They really pack a punch when you hit them in!

@AshCloves 5 лет назад

... Ever heard of Jukendo?

@AcademyofHistoricalFencing 5 лет назад

Yes.

@RoscoesRiffs 3 года назад

Not how I remember it. 🤣

@daswordofgork9823 3 года назад

Where can I get a weapon like that?

@AcademyofHistoricalFencing 3 года назад

The company Black Fencer in Spain.

@spamguyanims1654 Год назад

Its like spear fencing but your pike is a gun

@ChrisPBacon1434 2 года назад

It'd be funny if one of them got tired so just leaped back and shot the other

@chemicaldruid4591 5 лет назад

its wierd because its done like accruate duel fencing. which is exellent, and very pleasant to see. but conditions to a bayonet fight, regardless of the time period, is never an accruate duel fencing. from napoleonic wars to CQB combat, this is probably never a pleasant thing to see x)

@AcademyofHistoricalFencing 5 лет назад

It is done like a lot of bayonet fencing, which is a practice for the real thing, and sometimes a sport competition of it. In individual passes and interactions it trains you well for the real thing, but overall it will of course look like a duel because it is one-on-one in open space with no urgency. So think of this as more bayonet practice, more than representing how bayonet combat in a battle would look. When we post videos that bring it closer to real combat you'll see something closer to that. Where we change factors like the space, number of opponents and the urgency of it.

@mahesaramadhan7156 5 лет назад

Would be more interesting if these were actual loaded rifles

@inawarminister 5 лет назад

Would be much less safer too, akhi

@mahesaramadhan7156 5 лет назад

@@inawarminister well that's the interesting part you know what im saying

@peteraugust5295 4 года назад

Absolutely no way these are the original weight.

@AcademyofHistoricalFencing 4 года назад

You're correct. As explained in the description, they're about 1/2 weight. - Michael

@peteraugust5295 4 года назад

@@AcademyofHistoricalFencing next time I will read more careful, I promsie ;)

@InspiringBard 3 года назад

Who is sucking their teeth in the microphone?

@markfoo1303 5 лет назад

Two black guys more interested than the red guys!

@sarahkatherineelizabeth9711 3 года назад

Jukendo is far fast and better

@AcademyofHistoricalFencing 3 года назад

It's entirely sportified and using a very short and very light training tool, it's completely different to training with more realistic tools and trying to understand how soldiers used them.