There's proof that an event that happened in the bible occured. Sodom and Gommorah was destroyed by sulphur and fire from God because of their sins. This place exists today and was shown in a documentary of Sodom and Gommorah in 4K. Very eye opening. God is real and so is his wrath.
@@mattpowell6291 The same proof can be applied to Spider Man because New York is a real place. Ditto for the entire panoply of Greek gods because Mt Olympus is a real mountain. Oh, and Santa Clause because there really is a North Pole. If that's how you handle reality you must have a real problem with putting on your pants.
Good for you mate. 🙂 I do not think you can choose to have faith, you do or you don't. There doesn't seem to be any middle ground. If you find yourself struggling with your new found freedom, the AxP have numbers and other resources to help you. Some folks find it difficult to get away from the indoctrination and fear of going to hell, to mention a few. Seek assistance if you require it, and congrats 🙂
@@qwadratix this is true because every now and then I try and force myself into Christianity and be blind and just be in happiness and ignorance but I immediately just start laughing in my head and say this shit is dumb
So, when Bear is confronted with news of children being raped, tortured and brutally murdered he has a slight chuckle, shakes his head, points up and goes: "It's all for you, Big Guy"
Reminds me of when my Dad would tell me how anything bad that happens would be made good i.e. God makes something good out of a bad situation. Would have wondered how he'd try to explain what "good" could from a child who got raped.
@@robby7499 It defies belief! In more ways than one! Imagine if it was his own daughter! Would he sit her down afterwards and tell her that she should feel good about herself because she glorified g0d?
@@robby7499 If she hadn't been so busy being raped she could have been playing in traffic and gotten crushed by a hansom cab like Pierre Curie. I mean it could happen.
@@robby7499 hey, I asked my dad why god created the coronavirus and erased over 150,000 people, and his response to me was because he 'allowed it to happen'. But then again, he has been a Christian for over 30-something years. But still. Are you fuckin' serious?
These people will justify absolutely any evil shit that their god allows as long as it massages his massive fucking ego.And they are the ones that accuse atheists of having no morals.If it's possible to feel sadness and rage at the same time,that's what I'm experiencing now.
@@Assassin_of_Atheists Are you playing dumb? If God allows evil for the greater good, you serve a monster who would go "you can rape that child and kill them, but I'll get you when you die." When any moral person would stop the rape from happening in the first place.
@@hopsta5628 That's the other option, I guess. If you happen to be a nasty psychopath then christianity is ready made for you straight outa the wrapper!
@@timsmith530 Define good. Like I see "good" as being able to get along with others despite their differences and trying to make the world a better place. Evil then would refer to going out of your way to cause harm to others. We live in a society where we have empathy for each other and thereby set up secular laws. Like, hey, I would not like getting smacked in the face, so I can make the idea that no one else would like that.
Trying to jingly keys your way past the idea that a child being raped is just unfortunate while also saying it glorifies god is a PERFECT example of the damage religious thinking can do to your moral compass. Thanks Bear you did a great job showing the superiority of secular morals. Hope you didn't call in for any other reason...
raping kids is not covered by any of god 613 commandments! so its all ok! the whole religion is based on a evil sick god being evil and you better believe that or it will hurt you forever! I hopes theres a god and judges sickos who worships these evil gods!
Jmike pointed out something that doesn't get talked about a lot. A common critique of atheists is "since you don't believe in God, you must think that it's OK to do whatever you want no matter how evil". Problem is, in a worldview where God allows evil to occur as part of his ineffable plan, nothing can actually be evil, since it's all in service to said plan.
Absolutely. Being an atheist is not an automatic "get-out-of-jail-free" card. That is the reason we have laws in place prohibiting acts that could harm people. We do this not because a God determines what is "good" but because we have people who we are accountable for.
Not to mention under Christianity that you can do whatever you want and just accept Jesus before you die and all is good. So a serial killer can kill as much as they want and just accept Jesus and ask for forgiveness before they die, whereas an atheist who has been good all of their life will be sent to hell for the "crime" of unbelief/non-belief. Isn't Christianity wonderful?! 🙄
Unfortunately a relative was tortured to death. I opened my hurting emotions to a Christian. He said that my relative is being extra rewarded in the heavens for her suffering. I thought it was plain stupid for anyone to be rewarded for having a horrible death.
Bear proved what I found in Christianity and Christians. 1) The god of the the Bible is a sadistic psychopath and 2) a magalomanic, and 3) all theists especially Christians are self-centered and self- absorbed and are devoid of any CONSCIENCE, COMPASSION OR EMPATHY, the most important attributes that set fully fledged decent human beings apart from the rest of the animals.
“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?” -Epicurus
Unfortunately this is a common belief. Like the time I was ALMOST robbed and managed to get away (not unharmed, punched in the face) and when I notified my Mom that I was safe she immediately praised God???? Like hello, would you still be praising him if I was murdered in the street???? These beliefs are dangerous. 😔
I don't know your Mom, so I can't say what SHE would do/say, but I can tell you from a religious standpoint, the most common reaction would be "We don't know God's plan..." or "God chose this time for you to die..." or the ever ready "GOD didn't do that, man has free will...". To continue the Milton Bradley metaphor, GAWD has the biggest "Get Out of Jail Free" card in history!
This guy reminds me of this preacher at my cousin's funeral who said that she was burning in hell so that he could bring us the message and warning from God to convert today. I was still a believer back then and even I was like "WTF Man?" This caller just reminds me of all of the reasons why I left that cult.
I can't imagine how a "new Christian" managed to jump into the deep end without landing on his head attempting these advanced mental gymnastics. Usually takes a lot of indoctrination to train those moves into you.
God: “I actually can stop EVIL cuz I’m Almighty, BUT BUT I also am the Supreme Judge. I rather choose to judge EVIL later in future than to stop it immediately even though I’m watching it. Sorry human, just endure and glorify me even if you and your loved ones are in pain, I’ll come back someday.” This was the message from Him I was believing for years, ugh!
@@mattpowell6291 When slavery goes on for generations, apologized for by many Christian priests, or defended by them, and kings - why should it be permitted, to last so long? But Achan and his grandchildren (in Joshua 7) and that family in 1 Kings 14, must be slain, before the day is out, in contrast? So much for mercy, I guess. It seems like caprice, often, or whim. And what of the Inquisition, too. And of course, there is a middle ground between 'do nothing' or 'stay vague - and 'take 'em out'.
As our knowledge of personality disorders grows, it becomes very difficult to read any of the Abrahamic texts and not begin to diagnose the god who demands your simultaneous love and fear.
As a former Catholic, I also used to believe that God indirectly allowed evil to happen for the sake of protecting the natural balance of the universe: I used to believe that too much evil would be detrimental, and that too much good would be equally detrimental! I’m glad that I don’t believe that anymore, although it took me a long time for me to stop believing that!
The natural balance... of a universe he made exactly as he wanted... through magic... wow. Glad you got out of it, the only way I can imagine that even getting in your head in the first place is through childhood indoctrination.
@@Risivia I used to believe that it wouldn’t glorify God if there were absolutely no instances of evil/cruelty in this existence! I used to believe that the meaning of life was to strengthen our faith in God-which made me think that God used [instances of Cruelty/Evil] as tools to push us to strengthen our faith! It’s bizarre stuff what I used to believe!
I don't cause forest fires directly, but I also don't do anything to prevent them. That way when they inevitably happen I can swoop in and play the hero by putting them out. If people die and property is destroyed..meh, it's no big deal. Don't focus on that, just focus on my glory.
Where have you been Mighty One ? We've been trying to reach you. Like forever. Oh wait, you can't be god, I have no proof. This is a trick, but I am not tricked. Put out a forest fire, AND NOT WITH RAIN ! We all know how that works.
Why does a perfect being require glory? If it's omnipotent it could supply itself with all the "glory" it requires. That's the problem if you define perfection as being maximized in every conceivable way. Then this god becomes logically impossible.
As gods go, the Abrahamic one is pretty weak sauce. Zeus didn't fret about what people thought of him, or mandate worship on pain of eternal death. He didn't order that humans should worship no other gods - heck, he was such a boss-mode MF all the other gods decided this dude was king of them. He didn't whine. He wasn't needy. Zeus got shit done. Honestly, if I were going to decide that some sort of god must be real, I'd choose someone like Zeus, not a pansy liked the oh-so imaginatively named "God".
Hey guys, I died on the operating table last week and God told me that atheism is true and that he himself is an atheist and apparently doesn't even believe in himself. I can't wait to tell my uncle about this one. He's gunna flip out!! 😃
Where's your proof ? I'm not saying it didn't happen, I wasn't there. Still, extreme claims require extreme evidence. Is there an operating room video ? Do you have a representative you can contact on the SUPERNATURAL AFTER DEATH GOD CHAT NETWORK ? Hmmmm ? Just saying, show me what you got. 'Cause I'm willing to believe if you give me good reason, really good reason.
This has always been the point for me. Once you believe you have a universal mandate from "god", then you can justify monstrous things that any rational person would rightfully find abhorrent.
@@holgerlubotzki3469 He's probably perfectly normal, that's what's so worrying about religion in general. In any other context outside religion, people like this would probably see their own beliefs, if presented as the beliefs of someone else, as insane. They just can't step outside their own perspective to see how evil it all is.
@@holgerlubotzki3469 My point was that lots of people believe in the same sort of stuff that he does, that are normally functional people. Whether he is, or is not, normal, doesn't really matter.
Actually, they both handled that like shit. The only real way to deal with Bear and his ilk who pretend to know the mind of their god is to confront them with the choice of explaning the nature of his God as I do in my post above and then having to answer for the inevitable and inescapable conundrum their choice creates..
I am an amputee. life for me will be difficult for the rest of my life. I have been told by Christians that my suffering should be celebrated as I will get a more fluffy cloud in heaven. I would rather be able to go for a walk on the beach
Ask them why their god can’t regrow your limb, you can almost hear the little hamster on his wheel gasping for air and the wheel creaking from disuse in their heads.
@@ajclements4627 I have. I have pointed out that no amount of prayer to any god has ever regrown a limb. I get told that I have not meet everyone who has ever lived, so I do not know that. Or, god is capable, he just has not done it
@@peterbumper2769 I've had to spend a lot of time in a wheelchair over the years a had many a "christian" come up and say "you can't get into heaven in that chair" My go to line is now "sod off or I will move you closer to your god"
"Not that they're required-- they're necessary." That is literally the exact same thing. This isn't even one of those cases where the synonym to a word implies a slightly different meaning they both mean the exact same thing.
(basically) Bear: Necessary and Required are totally different, I know how words work! :V Bear: Don't worry, everything is okay, as long as you qualify later! This faith really melts the brain
@@wrencestonbillstowe6461 Right from the start you lie and strawman your ass off about atheism. It's not religion, get acquainted with the definition. Beliefs regarding the universes "origins" aren't religion either. Evolution isn't a "power", it's a process. Atheism isn't a cult either no matter how much you insist like a child. It's to lack a belief in gods or actively disbelieve in gods. THAT'S IT. Nothing else is necessarily attached to it. It's a response to a god claim that requires no burden of proof. The burden is on YOU, and everyone else who makes god claims. FFS you're ignorant.
I've been away for awhile. I survived hurricane Ian and was in a shelter (3 of them) in Lee County, Florida. The majority of people I met were just like this. It was hard to explain my position and they immediately shut down on me because I wasn't one of them. However each one had different view points on god and religion. Which I asked if you all go to the same church and believe in the same god, why do each of you have a difference of opinion in your god(s). It was funny to watch them squirm but then they got angered so I stopped to avoid conflict.
Isaac, at least you left them to have to stew and ponder in that reasoning. Their anger comes from them being shown how ridiculous their beliefs are and how among their fellow christians and church members
My daughter lives in Arizona , im from UK. Ill make this brief. I went to visit , one day we all went to a waterpark, my daughter, her husband , kids , and myself. We met a family there who were friends of my son in laws. Everyone was getting on and they invited us around for a BBQ that evening , this was about midday , shortly after god came up in a conversation and this guy asked if i was a christian , i said, " No ,i think its bullshit". Half an hour later he told my son in law ( in private ) that i wasnt invited to the BBQ , my son in law told him that his wife , my daughter , was an atheist and that none of us would be coming to the BBQ. My son in law was a christian , but had his doubts . We had a great conversation that night about religion and less than 6 months later he turned atheist. Hes a brilliant man , husband , father and son in law. This was 2016 , they now have 3 beautiful children . Hes now as anti theist as you can be. That was my first experience of Arizona's christians , fkn horrible human beings. ✌️
The word "glory" gives away the game. The god of the bible was originally a war mascot, and like all war mascots, has a violence-based ethos, where the point is adulation of your combat skills. A god that wants glory has to have an enemy to beat the shit out of, so he makes a universe and allows an antagonist for the sole purpose of beating him up. It's like worshiping one side of godzilla vs. king kong
It doesn't matter what your "beliefs" are, Bear.... just because they're beliefs, doesn't mean that they're true Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, which you don't have, nor does any other theist
And you know what's funny when they make these claims and like to quote from the Bible but when you ask them how is it true they'll love saying it's not my job to prove that it's true
@@incinoburna7936 Or they say "The scriptures! The Gospel! The Dead Sea Scroll!" Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. All these "accounts", and not one from a reputable source, or they're just, ya know, obviously another copy of the same written stories. It's pure insanity.
Watch Sodom and Gommorah documentary in 4K. This event happened in the bible. God wiped out the area with fire and brimstone because of their sins. That's proof of one story in the bible.
I always hear Christians say, "God knows the end result. He can see the end, so suffering might be necessary to get to the end result." They say it like god isn't the one who created both the beginning and the end results. He can pick what ever end result he wants. So evil is literally his fault.
The way Dave and JMike led this guy into one corner after another, by just asking question were a masterstrokes.. And just like Dave explained at the end of the call, they were able to expose everything that was wrong with christian morality inside of ten minutes.
I think that it is more benevolent to allow zero evil, than *any* evil at all, for all beings, at all times. We don’t have that. And allowing no evil in this way would not be beyond the power of an all-powerful being. Or beyond the knowledge of an all-knowing being. Ergo, I don’t see any way a tri-Omni god could exist. Free will doesn’t factor into this, as far as I can tell.
5:30 Adam and Eve could not have 'sinned' by eating from the tree of knowledge. Because at that point they had been created without any knowledge of right and wrong. It wasn't until they actually ate from the tree and became gods themselves, 'look they have become like us', that they could have known that disobedience to God is considered a sin. So it's kind of weird that God punished them, when it was his own negligence that left them unable to know they shouldn't disobey him. Perhaps the first example of this religion's struggles with taking responsibility for our own actions.
Bear, that is absolutely INSANE!! New Christian or old Christian. INSANE!! "We were put here for the glory of himself, and self recognized glory?" Because that is the only realization that makes sense under your theology. We didn't create ourselves or any aspect of ourselves. And for that matter god EITHER!! How did god get to be god? Did he create himself? And if "he always was," where on the continuum did he decide he needed a creation to recognize him and recognize him for his glory? It's all insane and bourn out of human egocentrism.
I just love you guys! Telling him truth bomb, all the millions suffering, such stupidity! And they never remember, in their myth, we're created imperfectly, we'll die. They always ignore the second tree and yahweh being told to get his toys out of the garden before they become immortal, too. That is the only 'gift' God has in the beginning, life. 👍💙🥰✌
@@GabeCoolwater If you read the story of Exodus in the bible it's pretty obvious that the g0d of Moses slaughtered the first born purely for entertainment purposes.
"That glorifies god in his judgement in the end" after a girl is raped- just about the sickest comment I've ever heard on the internet. No thought for the suffering on a human being by an evil monster of a person
Just that first sentence already "manifest his glory through us"... how anyone can think that is actually a meaningful sentence rather than drivel, let alone an excuse is simply beyond me. "It's not that they're required, they're necessary" Seriously, Bear, seriously? FFS...
So...Yahweh is the ultimate evil, of which we should fight against? ...Cool! So who's down to form a JRPG party and go kill an evil deity? Because apparently Kratos, from "Dad of Boy", missed one.
This is where Christianity and Buddhism greatly contrast. Buddhism acknowledges suffering as part of life. Not because some god made it that way. We suffer because, 1. The natural way of our world, and 2. Consequences of immoral human actions. The practice of Buddhism aims to overcome that suffering through your own will and effort, through compassion for other living beings. Not by leaving it up to “God’s plan”
Lawrence Kohlberg's stages of moral development: Level1/Stage1 … this stage is usually passed by the age of 6. I argued before that religion can stunt the moral development of people and keep it childlike … this is the first time I've heard of such an overt case where a person's moral development appears to have been reverted.
Any Supernatural Being who wanted a perfect worship to Him should’ve just made the human to obey him in the first place. Why need to analyze if the creation he made will obey him or not. It’s actually a experiment he wanted to do. And the worst part is human even babies are involved to be in pain to His experiment. An experiment he easily can stop it but will let it continue till now and He himself enjoys watching it. Even will say the ones ENDURED are saved.
Oh yes, just thinking about those animals that were drowned at the great flood! As a human I can imagine the parent animals trying to save and help their babies from drowning which is a sad scene, BUT this God was just watching it didn’t even care! Unbelievable! Even the NT God will refer to this ark story, which means he didn’t care too!
One thing is clear- if there is a god, it isn't of the tri-omni variety. Thinking about it, it would be impossible to know a god was triple-omni in any case.
Dave's scenario was a perfect example of the many moral questions that lead me to leave religion and I am a much better, more empathetic and healthy person for it.
FAITH of this kind will make excuses all day to justify a GOD of love that can allow evil and suffering to never prevent or stop it. Hint hint. Fits in perfectly with a GOD that doesn't exist in the first place.
