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Imagine he had just said "i got them" and they had opened fire onto the blank rocks. Nothing achieved but he gets to live another day. That's how brutal dictatorships work, which is why Harkonnen were so ineffective.
Judging from his reaction to that one Fremen woman that nearly killed him then and there, he's used to the Fremen running and hiding whenever he shows up.
I don’t think Rabban’s constant rage is a facade, at least not entirely. He is a deeply insecure man, and constantly worries that he’s not good enough or that his brother Feyd-Rautha will outshine him. And he channels this fear into anger and desperate attempts to please his uncle. And you see all of this in the subtleties of Dave Bautista’s performance. Incredible really
@@SamSpragueyeah, Rabban may be an jerk who kills people but I don’t think he’s necessarily evil. He’s just constantly on the edge of being outshone by his brother or murdered by his uncle, all while he has huge expectations pressuring him and the fact he was raised in a culture that worships violence and killing probably didn’t help his mental health either.
I like how Harkonnen brutality is depicted different for the three Harkonnens in Villeneuve's Dune movies (the books differ). Wladimir is extremely calculating. He uses brutality in public to send a message, in private only on his disposable servants. He enjoys brutality, but he never throws away a useful tool for his enjoyment or lack of self control. Rabban is frustration and rage. He vents his frustration and punishes people even if they served him impecibly and only failed due to factors outside their control. _Maybe_ he wouldn't even hurt a fly if everything went his way, which deep within Dune politics of course it doesn't. Feyd-Rautha is psychotic. He can kill any second if you only bother him somehow, or may just take pleasure in people quivering in fear. He is visciously intelligent to use it for his own agenda, but that is only a useful side-effect for someone lucky enough to be born a society that relishes his brutality.
@@CommonJsomeone suggested it might be the light making them nauseous, remember their planet orbits à black sun so they might not be used to normal sunlight
@@Nickname-ef9tv you know, this reminds me a time when I was working for a small milk distributor, it was a family business and we always had to work with the lazy, stupid imprudent son of the owner. So at that time we were in charge of the distribution for one of the most dangerous zones in the city, when you work in this zones the usual is that you contact the gangs in the zone and you give them a part of your product as a tribute, so we did as usual but that day the gang leader got greedy and wanted a extra package of milk, the son didn't like the idea and they started arguing while the rest of the gang surrounded us, fortunately one of the store owners came to save us and calmed the gang leader, on the way back the idiot stay the entire road talking about how he would beat the shit of the gang leader or why we were a bunch of cowards for not defend the merchandise. That day I resigned from the job along some others.
The fact that you consider that shows how horrible of an adaptation this movie is. Feyd was loved by the masses, and specifically groomed to be the 'better option', first at home and later for leadership on Arrakis and if plans had panned out, possible even Emperor one day. He was the normal appearing, wolf in sheep's clothing, serial killer to Rabbans ham fisted, overreacting, spree killer mentality, but you would not get that impression from this movie.
@@jimlamb7642 disagree. The arena fight was the perfect example of how beloved he was by the masses. Every sociopathic thing he did we were privy to as the audience; he seems obvious to us. And if you read between the lines it's clear that the Baron is acutely aware of the importance of his nephew's reputation, even referring to his manipulation in the arena as the real gift.
@@connormartin1322 I am assuming you mean you disagree that it was a bad adaptation since you made essentially the exact same point I did about Feyd being positioned to be the 'good' choice between him and Rabban. Because my comment was specifically in reference to the above commenter saying that Rabbans troops did not kill him because they thought Feyd would be a worse leader to follow. And while I agree that fight scene was used for that exact purpose that you state, a lot of people that did not read the book did not come away with that impression, hence my 'bad adaptation' assessment.
The Harkonnens sure do go through a lot of personell from the childish reactions of the two na-Barons. I can see Feyd Rautha's slash on that one guy, he was insubordinate, but losing someone is not a killing offense. Rabban could have said, "You lost him? Well, find him!" It's too easy to have accidents in the field, or in the palace or on the potty. If you put people in a position where they're going to go for normal human error they might want some company. It's just too easy for someone to "get" Rabban in the fog of war.
@@3vilSupermanI’m certain that a lot of academic misconduct occurs because of psychopathic investigators telling junior researchers if they don’t publish more, they are going to need a new job.
While watching the movies it took me a hot minute to realize that THOSE were the Harkonnens excuse for a stillsuit. Bulky, cumbersome, inefficient and offering zero protection as well as a huge loss of situational awareness. They get outmaneuvered all the time. They fall into simple ambushes. They don't even form perimeters and are slow to respond when attacked. It's clear the Harkonnens rely on huge numbers of poorly trained and lead troops to swamp their enemies. It's also clear this approach doesn't work and they totally fail to adapt.
You know I never realized that until right now. I was wondering why they wear those full body suits. Couldn't they breathe o nArrakis or.... Stupid of me.
Well of course. The Harkonnens are throughout the books painted as industrial powers that chew through people without any consideration of quality. The Baron for example picks a man to become his Guard Captain based on what drugs he's addicted to. How controllable those substances are. And how easily he'd be to dispose of. Their soldiers are little more than Serfs (some would say Slaves but they have some level of autonomy). The house isn't really served by making such people skilled at combat.
Sardaukar fight like Russians, burying the enemy in corpses and drowning them in blood. They're so heavily armored, they can't see above, below or behind. A nimble, stealthy enemy dissects them and vanishes before they can even react.
It does seem like a real impractical design for tactical purposes. I believe the film makers were aiming for a "spacesuit" design meant to sustain the wearer in the harsh desert climate as opposed to anything that would be tactically efficient. I think they should have stuck with the original Harkonnen body armor from the first movie.
Bautista was so awesome in this movie. Does a perfect job capturing a deeply insecure and cowardly man who props himself up with mindless rage. Almost felt bad for him at points.
I think that's why Frank's writing has such staying power. His villains aren't mustache twirling evil because they're evil, they're human. Startlingly so. Rabban is both a violent, entitled, and angry manchild, and a deeply insecure and cowardly man who lives in the shadows of his younger brother and uncle, knowing that he is very much the lesser child who will only ever get the scraps from Feyd's plates. He knows that he's nothing more than a tool that isn't even worth educating properly. On some level he probably knows that he is completely disposable. But he lacks the emotional maturity to deal with any of that in any healthy way, and lacks any social pressure to even try to do so. So he uses rage to hide, even from himself, just how hopeless and pointless his life is. Feyd is a violent narcissistic, egotistical, thug with the trappings of nobility and an overinflated view of his own intelligence. But he has a sense of honor, no matter how twisted. In the books he insists on honoring the Atreides gladiator to the point that his Uncle thinks Feyd will piss off the crowd. You can just see these glimmers of someone who could have been great if raised by Leto and Jessica instead of by the Harkonnen. Even Vladimir Harkonnen, the baron. He genuinely regrets the suffering he inflicts upon Leto, wishing he could have his vengeance against the Atreides in a cleaner way, and regrets the slight against Leto's honor that the Baron's honor guard see Leto in a position of weakness.
I think Rabbans failed campaign against the fremen was largely told in passing by others in the book. It's cool that they showed examples of it in the film.
That’s par for the course in the books. Almost all “battle” scenes happen off scream and we just are told about it in monologues. What both this and the 1984 did was take the stuff off screen and show us. It’s why the book was talked about as unadaptable. The vast majority is just people standing around talking to each other, or monologuing off screen events. A direct adaptation would have had almost no action.
The shot of Rabban briefly resting on the dock of the ship while you see out of focus lasguns firing below him a chaotic battle is amazing. Honestly, my favorite shot of the whole movie.
I honestly could watch a 2-hour movie of just an entire fanfiction of Harkonnen military fighting the Atriedies. I just love the take on the battles that were not hugely described in the books.
The combination of futuristic and ancient tech is so fucking cool. I mean, most battles in Dune are fought with blades... but they also have advanced body armor, laser and projectile weapons, radio comms, even gunships with what appear to be some kind of rail/coil gun mounted and guided missiles. If someone invented energy shields in real life, this is probably what war would look like a few centuries later. And those 'thopters actually make a lot of sense. Adaptable to different atmospheric conditions on different worlds, maneuverable, durable. That design has worked very well for mother nature, why not copy it for aircraft?
I wonder why they included the one Harkonnen Soldier throwing up? To show that they are humans too, to show their fear of Rabban, or to show their fear of the Fremen perhaps?
It is to show that deep down the Harkonnen are GOOD people. They are only following orders. In the end it was Paul and the Fremen who were the evil ones. 😞
to hammer home the hectic and violent nature of this counteroffensive, it was poorly thought out and borne out of rabban’s desperate circumstances, he needed, URGENTLY, a win to show the baron that he is a necessary asset. This entire scene felt like it had an irregular, fast and dirty rhythm.
My only major criticism of this otherwise absolute gem, is that the harkonnen never come across as a real threat. They get smashed every time they fight. Even the sardaukar I feel were massively down played in the final battle. They just got sucked up by a barrage of worms.
It's not any different in the books, the harkonnen arent good fighters compared to atriedes and especially Sardaukar and fedaykin, they rely on numbers and firepower. The Sardaukar got absolutely dog walked in pretty much all encounters in the books, even before Paul joined and taught them new tactics. Fremen women, elders, and children scared off a whole platoon of Sardaukar during a raid. The fremen were a real threat right from the get go
I mean that's true to the books as well though. The Harkonnens are poor troops and poorly led. Rabban is not bright and set up to fail. The Sardukar are very inferior to the Fremen. In the novel there's a scene where Hawat is saved by some Fremen who relay a fight they had with a mix Harkonnen/Sardukar force where they would have lost NO MEN had it not been for the Sardukar and they only lost I believe 6 with Sardukar participation. That's the Gulf in combat capability particularly on Arrakis. The only thing that can stop Paul and the Fremen is the numbers arranged against them. Even a Sardukar raid on a Sietch that killed Paul's son barely succeeded against old men (implied to be around 80) and women. And not even the top notch Fremen women who serves as warriors. The only force I think you could argue got undersold is the Atreides. Just because they get stomped by the Sardukar and maybe it's just my head cannon but part of the threat of the Atreides was that their best COULD rival Sardukar. So during the Ambush at Arrakean I would have made that point. But that's just me. To be clear the Atreides STILL loose and badly in my version just I would have included someone other than Duncan managing to kill a Sardukar.
Frank Herbert was a great writer, but action sequences and such were not his strong points In the books the Harkonnen don't come off as a threat either and the Sardukar are only a bit of a threat before Paul joins the Fremen, afterwards they get curbstomped in almost every single encounter. This also leads to narrative issues that exist in both the books and the movies, first and foremost that the Fremen somehow struggled to defeat the Harkonnen only to then steamroll both them AND the Sardukar at the same time with no difficulty at all
Something i noticed is that they carried over how the fremen war cry just becomes "Muad'dib", showing how dedicated his followers are, that was eeally cool to experience with the crazy sound quality
i think it adds to it honestly. Usually when you get a locations name come up it means that the location is important, and we’re most likely going to be there for a while or at the very least have a scene inside. This expectation is then literally blown away, with even the title suddenly cutting off rather then fading out with the explosion
My headcanon is that the Harkonnen soldier who saved Rabban was promoted not only because he saved him, but because he also was pretty much the only one to survive.
Okay, seriously, I get friendly fire in a dust cloud, but come on! If the Harkonnens can afford shields for their grunts, they can afford better IFF tracking.
Shields in open desert is a death sentence for EVERYONE. It's especially a death sentence if lasguns are in play. I don't recall IFF tags existing for infantry, or any means to detect them by infantry. The point here is that it was a poorly planned and ad hoc retaliation after a sneak attack, led by a man who's known for his animal brutality, not his tactical mind.
The bit about shields I can forgive, for that I was referencing the scene where Paul and Chani ambush a harkonnens patrol and one of the guys shouts out shields. However, given that the harkonnens employ full-body atmospheric protection that comes with shield generator, I would think HUD displays that highlight allies wouldn't be too much for them.
@@paytonkraft7564 Well, in case your only exposure to Dune was the movies, shield combat in 99.99% of the Imperium rendered combat to basically just melee fighting, which is why most of the combat is with knives/swords. Shields and lasguns are mutually assured destruction, because one striking the other produces a nuclear explosion... hence the knives, but there are two notable exceptions when it comes to ranged combat: maula guns and flechette guns. Maulas are basically just the future version of what we'd consider a conventional firearm that projects a slug; flechette guns are specifically designed to fire darts that can travel slow enough to penetrate the shield, but fast enough to be lethal... if you saw the part of the first movie where Duncan was escaping Arrakeen's palace complex, one of the Sardaukar employed just such a weapon, which Duncan was able to dodge at the last second. Now, like I said, I don't recall there ever being a point where some kind of HUD tech existed, because it's important to note that almost all computing tech is forbidden in the Imperium due to the events of the Butlerian Jihad, so it may have just been that they relied on their own personal judgment of friend/foe. If the director chose to take a liberty here, I have no way to know... but the greater point here is that Harkkonnen troops, especially under Rabban, had slipshod discipline and poor leadership.
I think that Fremen soldier was the first time Rabban saw what dedication really was. It also showed the onset of the religious fanaticism taking over the Fremen at this point. She absolutely knew going one on one against Rabban was likely a death sentence and she gave 0 fucks. That's the combination of decades of pain, broiling vengeance and religious levels of dedication for a new hope, combined into one warrior with a knife and nothing to lose. Rabban recognised that and it was absolutely horrifying.
This scene remind me one of the scenes in Godfather 2, when Michael see one of Castro's partysans blow himself up to kill a cop and imediatly understand that Batista is not going to sufocate the rebelion against him because the people are so comited that they are willing to give their life for the cause.
it is easy to be brave and ruthless when everyone has to listen and obey or loose their lives, but introduce a enemy who employs guerilla warfare on their own turf and all of a sudden the so called feared ruthless leader runs in fear and cowers in front of the opposition...this cycle has repeated historically since the dawn of man and it's conquests...
The funny part of this was when he walked with his troops, yelled out for Muad'Dib to come and face him, only to run away immediately when Muad'Dib comes to face him :D But Harkonnen battle tactics leave a lot to be desired. First, fire a bunch of rockets and create a huge dust cloud. Then land and deploy ground forces against enemies that are very adept at hiding even without a huge dust cloud.
I mean that is the point. Rabban is painted as dumb here. The firing of the rockets a bad idea that even his subordinates were aware of, it's just you don't say no to Rabban. Also their army is little more than conscripted serfs. Both in Movie and Novel they are terrible. With an incredibly short life expectancy.
I always feel bad for the Harkonnen troops since most if not all of them were forcefully conscripted and if they don't follow orders they and maybe even their families will be killed.
The new Dune movie exceeded all expectations except one very important way, imho. The consequences of using Lazguns and their interactions with shields. NO army or vessel would ever use lazguns if there was ever the remotest possibility of a shield generator interaction in the Dune books. The movie uses lazguns liberally. Not lore accurate.
Not with the fact one reaction from laz to shield causes nuclear explosions to go off. Setting up shileds with the intention that The Sak soldiers would shoot them would mean Fremen would have to be on the scene and ready to die the moment one lazer hit a shield. Plus Paul is there and both sides know shields are just not an option as neither can fight the worms. That is why when the fremen were assaulting the crawler they couldn't shoot it with the big laser guns until Paul, Chani, and company disabled the shields and took out the Orthocopters. Only then could Fremen shoot the legs. That said compared to the book series they do use laz guns a bit more liberally. @gavincross2902
@@Nekavandre Point taken about the crawler. I just wish the movie have expanded a bit more on the lore. In Dune 1 we saw the Sardukar using a lazgun to cut into the doors and walls of the weather station just after a battle between a shielded Duncan Idaho and a section of shielded Sardukar.... Pretty dumb ass behavior for the risk of a nuke going off. The lore of Dune is pretty scarce on Lazguns just for this reason and why blades and projectile weapons are used almost exclusively in the books. Lazguns, like nukes are pretty frowned upon.
I really undestand his frustration, he must have read the scrip. Where the Fremen superhuman dominance ist just not explained while the Harkonnen are extremly disciplined, extremely rich, well-equipped, spacefaring imbeciles, without any tactical knowledge, completely blind and relying on super expensive equipment that is more cumbersome then helpful. Not a strongpoint of the story at all. And with the technology available in our times, not very believable. When i design my next combat-suit i'll make sure to make it a least knife-proof. It is painfully highlighted in this modern adaptation with it's realistic approach. Not impressed.
