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Beating High Gas Prices Using Simple Aerodynamics (Home Improvement Store Edition) 

Think Flight
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Pushing the efficiency a little further with Mk2 , home improvement edition

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27 сен 2024

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@thinkflight
@thinkflight Год назад
Head to squarespace.com/thinkflight to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain using code thinkfight
@someonecalledeulogio2280
@someonecalledeulogio2280 Год назад
the mercedes was an eqs
@SpySxlar
@SpySxlar Год назад
nobody cares about advertises. you can see the most replayed part was where the advertise ends.
@Upliftyourbrothers
@Upliftyourbrothers Год назад
Need more miles on a tank to average out the change in mpg. Even multiple fill ups with adding miles then divide. I see people who top off a tank at a station after a 30 mile drive and extrapolate that mpg to the moon. Use multiple tanks or you’ll get inaccurate results.
@mplewp
@mplewp Год назад
very nice advancement:) i suggest you look up the audi A2 concept diesel : That car had rediculous mileage using more / other methods you could apply too.
@mplewp
@mplewp Год назад
ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-BTPnQneEtVs.html&ab_channel=JayEmmonCars
@nighttiger314
@nighttiger314 Год назад
12:20 Funny you mention the aerodynamics of that Mercedes, it's the EQS which is their first all-electric model. To help maximize the range they designed it to have the best coefficient of drag of any production car on the market at 0.20, so your callout was spot on
@poplaurentiu4148
@poplaurentiu4148 Год назад
Well yeah for a full electric vehicle that is already twice as heavy compared to a ice version the aerodynamic is important to maximize the range of the city vehicles otherwise it will end up like a brick but then comes the BEV pick-ups like : Rivian R1T, GMC Hummer EV that somehow do not care too much about efficiency more oriented for the utility & practicality on road and off the road + other adventure capabilities aspects..
@SMGJohn
@SMGJohn Год назад
@@poplaurentiu4148 Twice as heavy, twice as cheap to drive.
@poplaurentiu4148
@poplaurentiu4148 Год назад
@@SMGJohn EQS is not cheap at all.. inside is quite luxurious and the price starts above 95k-100k.. the driving for what purpose is intended (definitely is not a track car) mostly designed to drive smooth and quiet from busy airports to cities hotels and it does feels good for that so yeah.. not sure what you were pointing ..
@SMGJohn
@SMGJohn Год назад
@@poplaurentiu4148 Wow, you drive for free? Interesting.
@poplaurentiu4148
@poplaurentiu4148 Год назад
@@SMGJohn I'm not really sure i fully understand what you try to say regarding to EQS..
@Lumber_Jack
@Lumber_Jack Год назад
You should do coast-down tests. It is a very accurate and repeatable indication of drag. Certainly will be more accurate than depending on the vagaries of a fuel pump and the fueling/venting system on a car. Heck, the reason the gas pump clicks off on a modern car is more about the EPA-mandated evaporative control system on the tank and less about the fuel level in the tank. I bet you'd always get different fuel amounts pumped in just as a matter of course, even with all else held equal.
@O-cDxA
@O-cDxA Год назад
I'd like to suggest an even better method of coast down testing - Julian Edgar did this video on "throttle stop" coadt down testing : ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-tVAokIdaXm0.html
@michaelblacktree
@michaelblacktree Год назад
Either of those two methods will be more accurate than a partial fillup.
@artokiiskinen1058
@artokiiskinen1058 Год назад
or a fill up until the clicks stop. trickle until the tank basically overflows. should be pretty accurate too.
@markifi
@markifi Год назад
@@O-cDxA i'd like to double monkey boy's comment, the throttle-stop speed testing of drag method discussed by Julian Edgar in the video linked seems like a good idea and relatively simple to do.
@Lumber_Jack
@Lumber_Jack Год назад
@@artokiiskinen1058 Well on a modern car, that will overflow the venting system and can lead to undesirable effects. And I don't trust the accuracy for this type of calculation either way.
@MrSaemichlaus
@MrSaemichlaus Год назад
By sealing the underfloor, you reduced drag from turbulence but also created downforce (as you said it felt more planted) and thus more rolling resistance.
@alexander1055
@alexander1055 Год назад
So a flat Bottom would be more beneficial.
@AMPProf
@AMPProf Год назад
But. Is that bad in california? It's mostly mountain driveing...??????
@AMPProf
@AMPProf Год назад
Not to mention when it rains it pours.. Idk
@dinanbimmertv1864
@dinanbimmertv1864 Год назад
More rolling resistance, more power demands from the motor to overcome the resistance, more fuel
@nikolaihedler8883
@nikolaihedler8883 10 месяцев назад
There will not be enough downforce to significantly change the rolling resistance. Also, RR is a very small portion of overall drag, so it's not relevant anyways. @@dinanbimmertv1864
@eddievanhorn5497
@eddievanhorn5497 Год назад
I love how you tried to make the car more fuel efficient and accidentally created a dirt cheap mod for more downforce on your car at the same time.
@angelsfallfirst7348
@angelsfallfirst7348 Год назад
Now I can try ricing without being permanently riced out
@misternarwhalart
@misternarwhalart Год назад
His mods actually look better than like 90 percent of the ricer mods i see lmao
@boomchacle6717
@boomchacle6717 Год назад
How did you come to that conclusion btw?
@Itr-tv7kt
@Itr-tv7kt Год назад
i dont think it's creating downforce.. its reducing drag which helps with MPG.. if you're adding downforce it would add drag = it will worsen the mpg
@erikmyers3888
@erikmyers3888 Год назад
​@@Itr-tv7kt Car bodies are shaped like a crude airfoil. Air underneath travels slower than air over the top, creating lift via a pressure differential. The less air underneath the body, the less lift. Negative lift is known as "downforce". Does his mod produce NET downforce? Almost certainly not. But "less lift" is mathematically equivalent to "more downforce", and will be experienced by the driver as more traction and roadfeel.
@alecgoldie
@alecgoldie Год назад
by increasing the length of the tail you increased surface area which means the air is attached to the body for a longer period of time. You would need to probably find a balance between the first tail and the second one to find your optimal length to curve ratio; i.e. find how much you can curve the tail before the air separates and that is a good as you can make it
@TheObserver567
@TheObserver567 Год назад
Agreed. Look at nascar. Very important to minimize front drag from vents etc.
@largesizejellyfish3014
@largesizejellyfish3014 Год назад
Maybe vortex generators could work?
@mbp2059
@mbp2059 Год назад
Was just going to say that. More surface area = more viscous friction.
@rogermatheny5512
@rogermatheny5512 Год назад
If I remember my aero class correctly 11 percent is the sharpest curve before detachment of flow
@tmass1
@tmass1 Год назад
@@TheObserver567 racecars of any kind, even nascar are not good examples of aerodynamics. they want downforce for handling. pretty much the opposite.
@SuperlativeCG
@SuperlativeCG Год назад
When your gas tank is empty, it's full of gas.
@jeffallen3382
@jeffallen3382 Год назад
Good point!
@mylesspear
@mylesspear Год назад
That took me a minute to figure out! 😋
@gogle5238
@gogle5238 Год назад
Literally. Noice
@killianmiles1516
@killianmiles1516 Год назад
@@mylesspear what’s whit that emoji? lol
@_-Anthony-_
@_-Anthony-_ Год назад
@@killianmiles1516 😋😳😩🥴🤤🤤🤤
@ieism1
@ieism1 Год назад
Great video, and 17% is an amazing result for a car thats already quite aerodynamic stock. I have a Mercedes with air supension that lowers about an inch at 75mph, ive also lowered the car another inch. Now the car is more efficient at 80mph than it is at 60mph when the supension rises. It makes a huge difference overall, even the topspeed is higher.
@CBGX
@CBGX Год назад
Your experiments are done at a non controlled environment. This implies that changes in the wind speed , different temperatures, non exact driving or speeds can affect and alter the final results, being what we could say unexpected results. Very good on your part to try this out! It's the first time I see one of your videos and was fantastic! Keep it up :)
@bAc0nBoY755
@bAc0nBoY755 Год назад
A Bluetooth OBD reader (~$10 Amazon) and an app like torque would likely be much more accurate for fuel economy numbers. Great videos, hope you continue this series!
@shanefiddle
@shanefiddle Год назад
I would love to see this become a regular series! You could also look into tire rolling resistance, and as side mirror regulations are changed, the effect of replacing them with cameras. I second the idea of finding a long downhill slope and doing a rolling comparison. This way you could compare different cars, even compare gas and electric cars! Could be an annual event :⁠-⁠)
@drippingwax
@drippingwax Год назад
When Donut Media made an attempt to improve fuel economy someone mentioned video mirrors and somebody claimed they cost $4,000 per set. I asked for a source and he named semi mirrors.
@pws3rd170
@pws3rd170 Год назад
@@drippingwax lmao. Talk about price gouging big corporations. A backup camera is only like 250 but starting from your own cameras and running it through a laptop and feeding the footage to small displays would be the cheap solution. Could be as low as $250, small cameras are dirt cheap
@pws3rd170
@pws3rd170 Год назад
@Willham I was talking about aftermarket backup cameras. And of all the dash camera videos I’ve seen online, I really haven’t been disappointed in the video quality. They are usually at least 720p. I can’t speak on price since I haven’t shopped for them but I’d imagine there is a fair bit of competition just by the amount of truckers on the road alone
@gravemind6536
@gravemind6536 Год назад
Cars and heavy goods vehicles and buses are all shipping with camera mirrors right now. Honda E car has them, Volvo and Mercedes have been using them on trucks and buses too.
@ivancho5854
@ivancho5854 Год назад
​@@gravemind6536Yes, because manufacturers jump at the option of replacing a reliable and cheap component with an unreliable expensive one, especially if the customer demands it because it improves efficiency and increases the perceived greenness of the product.
@jamessaunders2248
@jamessaunders2248 Год назад
You should try using a OBD monitor to measure real-time fuel consumption. In order to maintain a consistent weight you would still have to fill up before each test, but it would eliminate any noise in the data caused an inconstant fuel station pump.
@MassimoTava
@MassimoTava Год назад
You could always buy some Flow-vis (short for Flow Visualisation) is a paint-like substance used for aerodynamic testing during practice sessions in Formula One. A high-contrast luminous colour, it is applied to an area of the car - e.g. one side of the front wing. (Or make some at home!!)
@GunganWorks
@GunganWorks Год назад
Flow vis paint is just Mineral oil and fluorescent dye. Flow vis paint is a great idea!
@MassimoTava
@MassimoTava Год назад
@@GunganWorks yeah, I noticed a few videos right now on recipes for it.
@Wrutschgeluck
@Wrutschgeluck Год назад
if you dont trust the gas station, you can always fill up some petrol cans and get a very exact amount inside your car. loved this 2 videos! here in germany we have so many rules, you will never find out something like this by your own :(
@maxymoo2764
@maxymoo2764 Год назад
thought about this too, but since he's not driving it until it runs out of gas, he's measuring how much he puts in until the pump stops pumping, so a jerry can, even if you knew exactly how much was in it, wouldn't really inform how much gas you had used in a test.
@Wrutschgeluck
@Wrutschgeluck Год назад
@@maxymoo2764 because of this some test it like this: they fill it up till they can see it. It's of course not good to fill it up that much but you can compare it better
@TheJttv
@TheJttv Год назад
You dont need to be accurate, you need to consistent. Using the same pump is good enough
@Wrutschgeluck
@Wrutschgeluck Год назад
@@TheJttv i gave him just a solution because he sayed he didnt trust the gas station.
@inkognito3145
@inkognito3145 Год назад
Yup das wär ein klasse Weg ein Date mit dem Richter zu bekommen
@chuco425
@chuco425 Год назад
You can still make the underside more aerodynamic just a matter of what you’re comfortable with. Some Miata race cars use ABS plastic sheets underneath to really smooth things out underneath. Off road race truck teams with bigger budgets take that into consideration and throw a giant metal skid underneath the cab. Also 15 degree departure angle for the bottom if I remember correctly with diffusers
@richardbossman9875
@richardbossman9875 Год назад
I always read on the area of 12 degrees...
@thinkflight
@thinkflight Год назад
It was just where and how to attach things that would have been a PITA. Plus a flat sheet wouldn't have done it, it would have needed to be 3 dimensional. Subaru didn't make it easy....
@LuckyCharms777
@LuckyCharms777 Год назад
@@thinkflight Maybe build a box frame along both sides of the underside of the car so you can mount a flat sheet lower than the vehicle components.
@xaytana
@xaytana Год назад
@@thinkflight Considering you're using such tall skirts, you could probably utilize these to your benefit of making a flat bottom out of sheet material. Just connect the front effect, skirts, and tail, with a cutout for the wheels, should be far simpler than attaching to the frame itself. The most you might have to do is find central anchor points, but considering how far offset from the body you'll be, just layer up some duct tape and make a support with some dowels epoxy, entirely removable solution since the base of it is taped down, and you can screw the sheet into the support.
@olivermedd9586
@olivermedd9586 Год назад
I would also look at your turbulence under the tail, and have a look with tufts. It may be wise to add some vertical diffuser elements to the tail underside
@drippingwax
@drippingwax Год назад
I don't know how much of a diffuser he could add without it scraping. Not many people modify their cars like this, but when they do, they usually compromise the bottom for usability.
@edgarcorrea7866
@edgarcorrea7866 Год назад
I'd like to see this done on something super inefficient like a lifted silverado 😂
@dmain6735
@dmain6735 Год назад
The original: It scooped up from the bottom more. The top part didn't rake down so sharply and the sides 'boat tailed' in sharper converging at a point just below the taillight level. Even, fully enclosed transparent wing mirror fairings? Maybe? Love these uploads btw :)
@charitharunachalam2800
@charitharunachalam2800 Год назад
I would advise you too look at the viewing angles for the lamps to ensure the vehicle is still compliant. I dough it is! Further to this I know the rear overhang would be illegal in Australia as it can only be 60% of wheel base. Fuel consumption test are difficult to quantify unless you can weigh the fuel tank before and after test and ensure the comparison tests are done under the exact same conditions.
@ambergris5705
@ambergris5705 Год назад
I think one of the reasons why the tail *seems* less efficient (but might not be) is the combined effect of the underbody bypass and the tail. The previous tail might have reacted better to the previous body kit, but this one might benefit more from the smoother airflow coming from the new system
@HughCStevenson1
@HughCStevenson1 Год назад
Super interesting. I did some tests on a 3 tonne truck a few yars ago with an inflatable tail - inflated by the stagnation of the air at a duct on the top of the body. I didn't have very good metrology but thought that I had reduced the drag by about 5%. The inflatable idea was that when it was stopped the tail would deflate and have bungee cord in it that would collapse it down to a short length for parking. I had to rent the truck for the testing so I ran out of time and energy but I think it would work well. People often put stuff on the front of vehicles to aid aerodynamics - we have a thing called NoseCone in Australia but it is really at the wrong end IMHO. Avoiding the separateion of the boundary layer on the rear is waaaay more important than making the front rounded...
@simiken1234
@simiken1234 Год назад
Another tip is to tape over all the panel lines and shut lines on the front of the car. People do this on racetracks to reduce drag a bit
@litterbug4023
@litterbug4023 Год назад
Keeping your RPMs below 1800 will help a bunch. My 2022 has manual shift mode. When I get above 50 mph, I shift to manual and put it in 7th gear. BAM!!! 42+MPG with a bone stock Impreza wagon. Even @ 70 mph
@user-si5fm8ql3c
@user-si5fm8ql3c Год назад
A automatic will often run at higher RPM and lower load at lower efficiency than needed if you let it for air pollution reasons, especially on diesels. that, or it just gets stuck in higher gears too long
@ZenEndurance
@ZenEndurance 8 месяцев назад
I do the same thing with my bikes. Round tubes are terrible in the wind. Adding some foam and tape to the trailing edges reduces drag by 10x.
@Tryinglittleleg
@Tryinglittleleg Год назад
When flying, after polishing our small aircraft (115 Horsepower) We can expect around a 5-knot increase in it's cruise speed at 25 Liters per hour. This represents around a 4% increase in cruising speed. It would be interesting to see what would happen if you smoothed the rear material and polished the car. Also, perhaps putting the fuel units in L/100km as well as MPG might help appeal to a wider audience.
@LuckyCharms777
@LuckyCharms777 Год назад
Equally interesting is the dimples on a golfball that create lift by essentially creating an air pocket around the ball. At least that’s how I think it was described as how that works or something similar. I think I recall long ago someone recreating a dimpled effect on their car which smoothed the airflow because of the “pillow” of air on the body.
@ExaltedDuck
@ExaltedDuck Год назад
The commentary toward is probably more spot-on that you would expect. I'm the guy that typically doesn't refuel until the reserve light comes on, and I get to know my cars fairly well as I drive them and pay attention to things like fuel dispensed. There are some gas stations I simply avoid because they'll consistently dispense almost 10% more fuel than others in the area. In cars where I know when I'm almost completely empty, just how much should be filled, going over a certain amount is pretty obvious. I had one car with a 12 gallon tank that would typically take 12-12.5 when the computers range was in the single-digit miles remaining. On gas station would routinely dispense 13.5. Another gas station never dispensed more than 12.5. Unless you have some calibratable way to measure the fuel, I would recommend either only using one pump at one station, or doing multiple runs using different stations and averaging all the results together in hopes of reducing the significance of that particular mode of variance.
@olivermedd9586
@olivermedd9586 Год назад
have you standardized vehicle weight, and tire pressure? Tire pressure can have a massive effect on efficiency. also added weight from more material at the back axle could be to blame. I would suggest adding lightness and trying to see how far you can slope the read down before you hit turbulence, as a shorter tail would also reduce weight, and improve axle balance.
@MaYbYl8eR
@MaYbYl8eR Год назад
The weight of the tailnisnt enough to effect axel balance
@drippingwax
@drippingwax Год назад
@@MaYbYl8eR foam board is extremely lightweight.
@assarstromblad3280
@assarstromblad3280 Год назад
Maybe add clear plastic tapered teardrop shaped covers on the mirrors aswell? See if that really gives you 5%
@AerialWaviator
@AerialWaviator Год назад
Great simple experiments, well summarized. To monitor realtime data, and collect data on vehicle performance; you could invest in an On-Board Diagnostic (OBD) dongle. This would allow realtime monitoring and collection of data on a mobile device (via wifi, or bluetooth). Data parameters available varies a bit by make, model and year, but often can view realtime fuel consumption, or estimate quantity remaining, as well as odometer readings. Logging would allow export to a spreadsheet for some fun maths. BTW: did you do a calibration check on tire pressure? This an often overlooked item and can make ~5% efficiency difference. Varies with temperature and seasons, so is worth checking once a month, or prior to efficiency runs.
@lumotroph
@lumotroph Год назад
Agreed - snoop the ecu with and obd scanner!
@drippingwax
@drippingwax Год назад
Torque Light is free! :)
@FragEightyfive
@FragEightyfive Год назад
I have an FA24, ambient temperature makes a huge difference. In the summer when I am driving in 70-75F in the morning and 85F in the afternoon, I see ~30-31mpg. Now in the fall, morning temps around 45F and afternoon temps around 60F, I am seeing 35-36MPG. Same route, no traffic, trying to average 35mph or 50mph on the backroads mileage is always about the same over 3-4 tanks, leaving me to believe it is ambient temp, or if the additives package has changed in the gas. On another note, I had a pickup truck that I put a downward wedge cap on to do a fluid dynamics paper on (emulating a couple that were already done), that alone improved efficiency about 10-15% on a regular basis.
@MXP90DL
@MXP90DL Год назад
Just wanted to share my mileage tests by saying when filling up the gas tank the only way I could think of to keep consistent was filling up neck so I could not put another drop in. So that worked for me, but some cars might have problems with smog systems. I was not testing pollution effects so my mileage worked just fine. I was able to get 27.6 mpg in my F150 but if doing a full tank to empty don't drink to much, it's a long drive.
@drippingwax
@drippingwax Год назад
What year is your F150? Dad made me drive his 2006 for a while and at 55 MPH I maintained 19 MPG. Nobody tailgated, though! :D
@StudioVRM
@StudioVRM Год назад
**Looking at a car with a 6 foot aluminized foam tail** - "Car looks incredibly plain now..."
@7891ph
@7891ph Год назад
Legal or not, it could also be that the cops who followed you decided that they just didn't want to know; "No, nope, to close to end of shift/next break, etc...."
@randominternetguy
@randominternetguy Год назад
I think some of the efficiency losses may be because of side winds. Perhaps a shorter tail section would reduce drag in a cross wind. Also, may as well leave the back portion of the tail section off so that there's a clear view of the existing license plate holder. I think such a design is called a "partial cam back." (Not my words) it may be the side wind and driveability solution as it would be shorter and (perhaps) still have most of the efficiency gains. Very interested in this as a series. Kinda hoping for a more final version, perhaps made from fibre glass laid over an existing test piece. Also, may as well test the pointy front. I hear it's kinda bad, but have no numbers to tell exactly how bad.
@SapioiT
@SapioiT Год назад
Before the back addition, the curves helped with the airflow. You could try angling it more towards the bottom, so only the area with the license plate is flat and nothing else, and even that could be slightly angled (something like 15 degrees or less).
@samuelhopely4853
@samuelhopely4853 Год назад
Filling in the rear of the tail surely hurt you a bit. The plate cover is a large surface for the low pressure wake to act upon. Remember that it's pressure region's acting on a moving body itself that contribute to drag! Having the tail hollow the first time around meant that realistically only the edges of the foam were subject to wake forces, with the gradient increasing to probably around atmospheric when you reach the body. With such a better optimized curve on the tail, you had way higher velocities at the bluff cutoff, so every square cm had an even more severe pressure drop to contend with vs the former. If you cant get a point (which you probably can't achieve efficiently anyways) find a way to leave her hollow!
@Lumber_Jack
@Lumber_Jack Год назад
Well, the old design created a large cavity, and there is no way to tell what the internal cavity pressure was without some further analysis. Sometimes it can result in higher pressure when you create desirable recirculation inside the cavity, but in this case I suspect recirculation was minimal. So it was probably transmitting the wake recovery pressure, or a lower pressure, up against the hatchback and bumper inside the cavity. Which means not much of a reduction in base drag. The new closed boattail shape is probably better.
@rxwhat33
@rxwhat33 Год назад
I had a 2014 subaru impreza sedan cvt that i used for my 1hr commute that got a consistent 36.9 mpg, i now have a 2010 honda fit manual trans that gets 38.1 and am in the process of k24 swapping a 2011 honda crz in hopes to achieve 40 plus mpg with some tuning, this video was great to watch!!
@justin.w.06
@justin.w.06 Год назад
Im guessing that the variance in the results from the gas pump come from the mechanism of the stop valve in the nozzle. Since its purely mechanical, it might not always fill to the same point each time. Ive noticed on my car that sometimes the amount it fills will be off by a half gallon or so when i fill the tank from the same mark. Awesome video though!
@STho205
@STho205 Год назад
It is a back pressure pop valve. Using the same pump and nozzle is good, but the car, temp, air pressure, humidity/dewpoint is what changes along with the saturation of the vapor trap cannister. If overfilled on visit 2, then visit three may cut off as much as two liters early because the vapor cannister has become wet from last overflow.
@mcanderson0
@mcanderson0 Год назад
I hope these vids start seeing more traffic man, such good content, and you do enough work to justify it! Love your content, which i found thru Daniel's channel. Love all of your ekrano-esque creations btw, such a cool phenomena that seemingly NO ONE is taking commercial advantage of, yet, you and Daniel are making a whole series of interesting ground effect vehicles in a relatively short time frame JUST for the appreciation of physics and to 'feel' that effect! Theres so much intersting phenomena to behold, and all the micro details of each design can make or break the entire character of the flight... so cool! Keep up the awesome work buddy! Cheers from HTX
@trasher2848
@trasher2848 Год назад
I could imagine that the new tail causes more drag, because the back area, where the numberplate sits is substantialy bigger. Without directly changing its size again, you could try to angle the surface at maybe 45 degree, effectively creating more of a tip, instead of a big rear stub. Do you have something like discord for better exchange of ideas?
@AustinPerdue
@AustinPerdue Год назад
Aerocivic (ex)owner here, as well as owner of one of the highest fuel economy Insights on the road (100mpg+). Happy to see you continuing to experiment.
@thinkflight
@thinkflight Год назад
Legend....
@williamforbes7156
@williamforbes7156 Год назад
my idea for the gas pump issue is the different grades of fuel, ie the ethanol content during the climate shifts throughout the year.
@JoeOvercoat
@JoeOvercoat Год назад
“I’ll take zero ethanol, please.”
@LuckyCharms777
@LuckyCharms777 Год назад
@@JoeOvercoat My car is older so I only use ethanol-free, and while it does cost more, I get about 2-3 mpg using it. For consistency, he should definitely use it when testing at different times of the year.
@RaisinBarXZ550
@RaisinBarXZ550 Год назад
This is a really cool series! Maybe one day if this makes enough you could try to find a cheap and already teardrop-ish car and try to make it insanely light and efficient. Also the Mercedes was an EQS, the new electric one that I remember seeing in videos s year or two ago, but it seems they haven't gotten very popular, so that's a cool car spot!
@hellothere6627
@hellothere6627 Год назад
Love these videos, it’d be great if you keep producing more. But don’t feel pressured to produce videos quickly and rapidly, take your time
@jebus456
@jebus456 Год назад
i agree with your last comment about the pump not being as accurate when shutting off, you can get around that by using a fuel cell instead and measure by weight
@centurialinc
@centurialinc Год назад
A simpler test that will eliminate the most errors is a down hill coasting test. Others have mentioned it. And it can be done in other forms. Dead stop from exactly the same place on the same hill under the same weather conditions and simply monitor the top speed and coasting distance. Do this 10 times with the regular car to establish average deviation. If your aero works well the top speed will increase as well as total coasting distance. I bet the car in it's stock form will fluctuate +-3% or more so an increase of 17% without knowing the average deviation is more likely 10-14% in actual improvement. That's still very good. So keep going. Make sure all things are kept equal. Tire pressure, weight in the vehicle, weather especially wind conditions. If the wind or traffic turbulence fluctuates the air +- 3% that's not helping get good data. stay away from dirt it will very the rolling resistance, stay away from testing in traffic and avoid stops and starts in the test, that puts the engine in the worst efficiency rpm range and can easily be effected by the driver, also avoid turns as they induce turning drag and are also effected by the driver. Go straight down a hill and only measure coasting top speed and distance and a more clear picture should come from that. Good work keep it up.
@Helicopterpilot16
@Helicopterpilot16 Год назад
*Cybaru
@matteocandiano5280
@matteocandiano5280 Год назад
To accurately measure the gas consumption you gotta add a new little fuel tank attached to the fuel pump of your car and measure how many liters or gallons of fuel you use... I learned it from Joseph Newman
@maxymoo2764
@maxymoo2764 Год назад
I might suggest using an OBD reader to get your air-fuel ratio while doing these tests, it's possible your car had richened it out for one reason or another causing more fuel consumption. Cars actively manage all of the conditions that make the car run and could be doing one thing or another to make catalytic converters heat up or cool down or a bunch of other things. I think averages from a set of tests using one variation for another would be a better indicator. Love the videos, 18% is incredible.
@bobphillips2188
@bobphillips2188 Год назад
I know I am late to the party, but - do you know with certainty that when the pump at the gas station cuts off, it is always accurate ie. what about foaming, or more precisely, the splashing that trips the trigger? It only needs a single splash to cover the 'trip hole' in the mechanism, and you could be quite a way out... Just a thought. (I used to work on such mechanisms, and they are far from precision mechanisms. I reckon you would have to do, maybe, three runs and average them out (-:)~
@vincentrobinette1507
@vincentrobinette1507 10 месяцев назад
Removing the skirting introduced more drag, than the ever-so-slight increase in efficiency of the new tail could hope to compensate for. The ground effect between the chassis of the car and the road, is ~30% of the total drag of a modern car! You were definitely on the right track, when you tried to address turbulence underneath the car. Another thing to address, (I'm sure you thought of this) is tire rolling resistance. Tire pressures make a big difference. When a car becomes this efficient, tire inflation pressure becomes a greater percentage of overall drag, in that it greatly influences rolling resistance. Ambient temperature also makes a difference. A cold tire on a cold road on a cold day has much more resistance, than the same tire at the same inflation pressure, on a hot summer day.
@ch1lly05
@ch1lly05 Год назад
That Mercedes was an EQS. It’s an electric production vehicle and it’s the most aerodynamic production vehicle with a drag coefficient of 0.20
@jmlemmi
@jmlemmi Год назад
I think it's very likely you fill up to a different point every time. You'd probably need a more accurate sensor in your fuel tank, or a transparent hose that makes the fill status very clear. I've found for my 50l fuel tank, that filling from empty till the click, then letting it really settle and filling again till the click gives me am extra 3l of fuel. I've been tracking my fuel consumption for aound 50000km, 2500l of Diesel, and sometimes for no reason my sonsuption goes up by like 5%, even though I commute the same long route every day.
@DemonicVelocity
@DemonicVelocity 10 месяцев назад
There's a video of a german guy who made his car more aero. It's called "massive drag reduction for family car" and he went up to 55mpg in the end on a way sleeker design. But he also started with an efficient car to begin with.
@MrPizzaman09
@MrPizzaman09 Год назад
First off, great work on this. Hopefully your testing is consistent enough and over enough miles to make up for any driving or environmental differences. I also would recommend pulling the gas pump lever until it clicks a second time. As for the aero, I helped design the SAE supermileage car that went on to hold the US made car record of 3013 mpg. After several iterations of the car, we found rounding the edges on the features helped . Doing this on the edges of your tail and the rear of your tail would help, but is certainly tough to do with your materials. A 17% improvement is really good. You also have to considering that roughly half of your energy is going into rolling resistance, so really you probably improved the air drag by ~30%. I would see if you can make any "easy" improvements to the underside of the car. Also, make sure your tires are pumped up to near their max (read the sidewall, it probably says 44 psi or 52 psi max, so go to maybe 2 psi shy of that when it is cold. I have a 100 mile commute and I tracked fuel economy religiously with various variables. I found 1 mph faster in average speed would make my fuel economy go down by 0.8 mpg in a 2013 Mini Cooper S with the full factory GP aero kit (under tray and wing). EPA was 36 mpg highway I believe and I normally would get 40-42 on a nice day, with my record being 47.2 mpg when drafting a truck the one day that was driving particularly slow. I've generally found my best fuel economy in a vehicle I can get is about 40% better than the EPA rating.
@Finn-pe7uj
@Finn-pe7uj Год назад
Why are curved edges better? My understanding from Julian Edgar's youtube channel is that sharp cutoff edges (ie a bullet shape) reduce "suction peaks".. any 'wrap-around' of that airflow will cause a low pressure on that surface, helping pull the car backwards
@mytakeonlife8811
@mytakeonlife8811 Год назад
When I am passed by a semi on the freeway in my RV I feel pressure first against it pushing me away and then towards it sucking me in behind. Those admirers of the car that stay next to it will have an affect on air pressure in front.
@weekendstuff
@weekendstuff Год назад
Really cool process in finding a airodynamic solution
@itouchipods
@itouchipods Год назад
I too really enjoyed this. Aero & efficiency are always on my mind.
@zi1251
@zi1251 Год назад
Why not go full Ricer mode, add the stickers and the sponsors and don’t forget add colors. Red means fast and Green for efficiency , don’t ask me how the color works just Ricer science.
@Redstoneprofi01
@Redstoneprofi01 Год назад
What i think what this video is when clicking on the video: A guy upgrading a car with high quality materials What it actually was: a guy upgrading his car with cardboard, styrofoam and duc(k) tape You did this very good!
@icekk007
@icekk007 Год назад
To get beyond 18%, here is a suggestion. Some air will flow underneath the car even you put an air skirt in the front. Starting from the rear bumper, you can taper the underside of your tail addition. The angle of the taper is gentle. See 2000 Honda Insight or Chevy EV1.
@MattyClivingthedream
@MattyClivingthedream Год назад
There are so many variables with testing fuel economy. Two bigs ones, are the energy density of the fuel, and the octane rating. Both of these are legally allowed, from batch to batch, to vary by up to 6% for energy density and 4% for octane. Temperature of the fuel can also effect it's overall density and the temperature in the gas station tank can vary according to how long it has been siting. All of these can have large effect on economy.
@rotorblade9508
@rotorblade9508 Год назад
you can check mileage with the onboard computer. drive say 80mph on a level road in a high gear. Use the same gear to compare. do several runs and note the windspeed and air temperature each time for every setup. If you get better mileage in worse or equal conditions then the better efficiency is confirmed. Onboard fuel metering has about 0.5% accuracy and can be offset if the tire size is not nominal but the tire size doesn’t affect the test obviously if all tests are done on the same tires and pressure (check pressure each time). The fuel metering can be adjusted through obd if offset but you don’t need that either since all tests are using the same calibration Note the computer mpg average over say 0.5miles. Each run on the same road preferably
@oozie3799
@oozie3799 Год назад
Rear defuser the turbulence created by the ground effect adds drag so you need to channel and speed up the air going out of the back
@Maceyee1
@Maceyee1 Год назад
it was a Mercedes EQS - we have them in UK a lot - soap bar shape is one of the most efficient drag ratio vehicles
@trailsdetails4061
@trailsdetails4061 Год назад
I randomly discovered the 1st video, so excited to part 2!
@Vydonis
@Vydonis Год назад
The reason for fuel burn marks is how warm the engine is from start and how gunked up your stuff is. Internal airflow is majorly affected by air density. I live at 6k alt, and I go to 3k alt to enter a city. I notice the difference between both altitudes in every vehicle I drive. Morning is different than mid day in how cool an engine runs.
@atw9913
@atw9913 Год назад
While you eliminate one variable by using the same gas pump you still have the issue of the automatic shutoff. It will never be consistent. You have a couple of options. 1. Drain the tank completely. Not sure if there is a drain plug on the tank or not. Once it is drained put a measured amount of gas in the tank. Then run the car until the fuel is exhausted. Then put gas in the tank, start the car so until the fuel lines are primed then drain the tank again and refill with the same measured amount of gas. Repeat drive with the aerodynamic changes. Another option is to put a small tank and pump in the trunk and move the fuel lines. Either way you need to know precisely how much fuel you put in and then run until empty.
@mr.browser5941
@mr.browser5941 Год назад
Yo yo yo!!! - Please find a secluded hill and try out rolling in neutral. If you can’t rely on your pedal or gas pump input then just see how far your car rolls (with you in it of course) from top to bottom!!!! Your results should overhaul anything gas mileage might tell you since you know for a fact one is more air efficient
@n7275
@n7275 Год назад
There is a point where increasing the length of the tail to prevent separation is going to have more total drag due to viscous effects, than just having separated flow.
@garymclaughlin4457
@garymclaughlin4457 Год назад
It's critical that the front of the car is as smooth as possible to help maintain laminar flow so to that end it would be advisable to ensure that the front lights and grill area as well as the wiper blade area be as smooth and sleek as possible. this should yield significant gains.
@JordanHinsonLikeTheRiver
@JordanHinsonLikeTheRiver Год назад
The racing stripes are everything!
@Basil_Kehoe
@Basil_Kehoe Год назад
I am suprisded that the officer didn't say anything about you license plate light being blue, because in Claifornia, which I think is where you are located, that is illegal. Super awesome video and great areodynamics and engineering!
@irodragon7184
@irodragon7184 Год назад
To get the most accurate data you should fill a Jerry can with a specific amount that way you can eliminate the pump errors. Then either run it till it quits and measure time or have a set time and check how much you have left, the first is probably more accurate than the second unless your tank is split
@crisnmaryfam7344
@crisnmaryfam7344 10 месяцев назад
not completely "split", but if you look at the shot under his car (i know this from having owned a few subarus) its "partially" split to fit over the other components for the AWD system. Such as the drive shaft/prop shaft, Sometimes when you are low on gas you can take a corner fairly sharp, or a freeway onramp and end up a couple lines up on your gas gauge. The "digital lines" and readout is only as good as the older style almost "toilet tank bobber" style gas tank float system.
@crisnmaryfam7344
@crisnmaryfam7344 10 месяцев назад
if you pause at 1:37 you can see the plastic "skid protector plates" on either side covering the gas tank tucked away up there.
@Somebeanwhoexists
@Somebeanwhoexists 8 месяцев назад
I’m getting a vw type 3 squareback, and I’m going to do something similar to see how well it can do. I’m going to use magnets from old pizza toppers to help hold it onto the car and make it removable. I’m going to use plastic so I can still see out my back window. And do side skirts, and maybe wheel skirts on the back wheel if I can. I’m going to do my best to paint and style it to match. Mostly for my 100mile drive to and from work (twice a month) to see if I can get the mpg around 32-35. Wish me luck.
@nicholasstocker6866
@nicholasstocker6866 Год назад
That Mercedes you mentioned was a EQS. An sort of electric version of the S-Class. The car has a drag coefficient of 0.20.
@whiskey392
@whiskey392 Год назад
my first thought watching this was pressure at the pump fluctuating giving you different fill-up results. i had a wrangler that would click pumps off early from the gas's bubbly "head" in the filler neck. i imagine even the same pump has varying pressure dependent on a range of variables. you might be able to use calibrated vehicle scales to measure weight pre/post trip. or do the inverse and run til empty ...
@peterfarkas6763
@peterfarkas6763 Год назад
Your new tail is less efficient because ot the vortices created at the edges were the upper surface and the side surface meets. This is beacause your tapering angle is larger at the top surface than at the sides, creating two vortices similar to airplane tip vortices and these cause the excess drag. You can even see these vortices even at low speed in your smoke test at 11:42. Other input is that seapation is usually just a bubble, the airflow closes up after the bubble so it is not necesserily as big of effect as one might think. (Taillight covers are not so crutial.) So even if you have some separtation but if you manage to taper the tail of the car more your wake region can actually be smaller. As for the wheel arches you do not have to fully close them you can merely make the gaps smaller.
@B4R0N.
@B4R0N. Год назад
12:25 Mercedes EQS. Their flagship EV and the production car with the lowest drag coefficient ever.
@a.p.2356
@a.p.2356 Год назад
If you want to avoid the complication of the tail light cutouts and potentially unwanted cop attention, I'm sure there's a trailer wiring harness available for that car. Then you could just plug in a second set of tail lights on the end of the tail fairing itself.
@TriadAgone
@TriadAgone Год назад
there are fairly cheap fuel push drains that you could install in the bottom of the tank and drain the fuel, like those used on airplanes
@VladPayne
@VladPayne Год назад
Fuel pump stops when substantial amount of bubbles reach the top of the gas line, the vacuum tube in the pistol is very sensitive there. I usually wait for the bubble level to go down and can pour in another liter (for an actual full tank), so each time it can be 2-3% random depending on the temperature, humidity and atmospheric pressure, so refilling until the pistol fires is a bit random. The MOST accurate would be filling it with a jerry can (metal one) and have some sort of a physical dip stick in the tube and still, you might get a difference because your cars tank is plastic and can expand/contract. Too much work to calculate the remaining 3% is you ask me. Cars with direct injection (piezoelectric injectors) know VERY precisely how much fuel was dumped depending on the RPM of the camshafts - performance of the fuel pump, as the fuel pump gasflow is knows for a given rpm and for how many milliseconds was the injector open. My car (Hyundai with a G3LC engine) gets a more precise reading than me filling the gas tank.
@clintmiller88
@clintmiller88 Год назад
Couple of foam panels on the roof and walls will Help your echo problem super cheap egg crate stuff
@facelog0138
@facelog0138 Год назад
The skirts you put on the front and sides simulate the function of a diffuser (shielding air flowing below the car from the sides and accelerating it at the rear, by opening up the way the air can move). A diffuser is used in Motorsport and notorious for creating heaps of downforce and comparably low drag. And I think here is the problem with the new tail. The 90° angle at the end is too aggressive and you get turbulent air and drag. Put your stripes beside the licence plate. If you gradually slope up the bottom of the tail as well, it should work much better. Nice video and crazy interesting thanks 😅
@RhodokTribesman
@RhodokTribesman Год назад
The cutoff of the end of the tearsrop shape creates almost no extra drag for the removal of material. In fact, it can be beneficial to break the airflow that sticks to the car which is why tons of sports cars have abrupt tail cutoffs
@neemolog
@neemolog 10 месяцев назад
When your improvement is going to detach suddenly at 90 mph and everybody panically braking being scared of it will bump each other in disorder, you'll discover a russian saying "Кроилово ведет к попадалову" which means "Hacking workarounds are usually the shortest ways to face a big loss". Easiest way to get even 20 per cent MPG growth is just a gentle handling with your gas. Good luck!
@gollumthewicked
@gollumthewicked Год назад
For testing I would recommend measuring instant mpg, not trip mpg, and at as high of speed as possible to make the differences more apparent. If you can do 90+mph on that lake bed that would be much better. Calculating based off a trip introduces so many variables, not least of which is the driver. You might drive more cautiously with the tail, thus improving MPG.
@aapjehoan
@aapjehoan Год назад
Yes and wind plays a major role
@gollumthewicked
@gollumthewicked Год назад
@@aapjehoan and static wind is easily measured and you can somewhat normalize the data by taking data points going both directions. It's much easier to calculate a potential variance knowing local windspeed than trying to guess/calculate driving style impact.
@JakobusVdL
@JakobusVdL 10 месяцев назад
Great work, and brilliant imagination, to figure out such cool ways to make your car so much more aerodynamically efficent.
@richardbossman9875
@richardbossman9875 Год назад
Dimpling flat surfaces ( like a golf ball) helps keep air from sticking to the surfaces, In not sure how practical it would be to do on the parts you added but it does make a difference to the point that some advanced race engines have this aero trick in their intake systems
@richardbossman9875
@richardbossman9875 Год назад
Also, “Cyber Subaru”? Cyberu?
@MyLonewolf25
@MyLonewolf25 Год назад
Sealing that underfloor even partially will still help As well a front splitter will also help over just that chin, also when building make sure it extends past the front firewall or from that front firewall to about 30mm past the front air dam Also a much better test for aero drag would be coast downs rather than long drives due to variability Also “vortex generators” are a fickle beast and mostly useless without complex cfd work You’d get much better results from sealing panel gaps Ana worrying about tire pressure and equalizing them
@dfb-gaming8039
@dfb-gaming8039 Год назад
Interesting you mentioned the car felt more 'grippier' on the road with the initial test of the side skirts/front splitter. Maybe you realized this, but you DID make your car grippier. Not sure if you're familiar with the 'ground effect' phenomenon seen in race cars, but by blocking off the underside of the car you're creating a low pressure zone that effectively sucks the car to the ground. The neat thing is, there is little drag so it's a fairly aerodynamic process. If you're curious, check out the Lotus 78, a Formula 1 racecar from, well, 1978.
@514aam
@514aam Год назад
Best fuel efficient mod on any CVT Subaru Is changing that fluid if old, the thing will regain a couple of MPG, also new spark plugs, the new NGK ruthemium plugs gave me about 1-1.7mg extra. PS: I also own a 8th gen Civic automatic. You can get 40mpg pretty easily with no mods, I can imagine you could get quite a bit more out of it, it's a 1.8 liter 140hp engine, powerful enough and stock aero seems pretty good.
@dhawaljoshi
@dhawaljoshi Год назад
your difference can be result of many things including fuel density, air temp, type of driving attempted ( sprint or easy acceleration ) , etc. usually 10% improvement isn't considered unless it's having a significant quantity impact. For ex 10% of 1ml vs 10% of 1000 ml.
@alanchantiefighterskuanlia627
Yes use obd meter regardless of amount in tank will give very accurate reading. I have improve my driving with obd meter achieving 26km per litre. Over the manufacturer claim of 19km per litre.
@cDog8766
@cDog8766 Год назад
After watching these two videos I decided to design a car based off of what you said in concerns to why auto companies aren't making cars more efficient. After making a sketch I commissioned a 3D model and had it tested in a wind tunnel simulation up to mach 1.01 (775mph) where it was stable. While looking into a few other things concerning vehicle manufacturing I learned that America has a strict law about fuel efficiency based off of the footprint of the vehicle (makes no sense). It's measured from wheel center to center, and if the vehicle deviates from a chart the Feds made, manufactures get fined $10 per 1/2" out of tolerance. And to get REALLY good aerodynamics, cars would have to be way outside of that chart tolerance. So the car I designed would have an additional charge of roughly $500 or more to the manufacture because it was to aerodynamic if I'm understanding that law correctly.
@Chris.Davies
@Chris.Davies Год назад
You can probably gain 20% efficiency by doing nothing more than planning your trips more carefully, avoiding unnecessary trips, and saving a bunch of time in the process. You can probably gain 10% around town simply by modifying the way you drive: accelerating more slowly, and driving more smoothly, and with a manual, ensure the engine goes into over-run more frequently, when the ECU cuts the gas completely. Avoid using the brakes unless absolutely necessary. The skirts make a huge difference, and so does smoothing the underbody: the two nicest things which also improve handling substantially, but more to the point, they don't look stupid. :)
@hamletcabrerart
@hamletcabrerart Год назад
Basically the EQS is your roll model of aerodinamics, it was just passing by to salute your efforts.
@asianinashed
@asianinashed Год назад
The problem I found with the newer imprezas for MPG is that they're overweight and underpowered, so you end up using more gas because you're pushing the engine more. 140hp is not enough to move 3,100lbs efficiently. This is why my WRX was able to do 38mpg or why the corvette is able to do 30-35mpg. Although both weigh more then the impreza, both have a considerably higher amount of power. Meaning that the engines are understressed when you are driving.
@user-si5fm8ql3c
@user-si5fm8ql3c Год назад
all depends on the torque curve, 140hp diesel is plenty for 3100lbs, too much rather, while gasoline, especially NA, engines are already at the upper end of their efficiency range. The difference is the diesel makes alot of power at the RPM where its most efficient, while the gasoline engine typically make the same power at a higher, less efficient RPM. With slightly relaxed highway driving, a semi-modern diesel with a efficient drivetrain and good aero does a good 55-63mpg.
@asianinashed
@asianinashed Год назад
@@user-si5fm8ql3c That's true too and I should of pointed that out too because I do know that diesels are way more efficient for this type of driving, but I think the reason why I didn't point it out is because he is driving a impreza and not a jetta.
@epicraptorman
@epicraptorman Год назад
replace the mirrors with cameras, get slightly skinner and lighter wheels, remove roof racks (wouldn't have to weld shut you can just use a plastic filler cap), tape off the rear door handles, tape off portions of the front grill if you can without overheating. that's all the recommendations I have to improve mpg. still a 17.9% isn't bad at all. the Crosstrek has a 15.9gal tank and 34mpg highway. With these modifications and an increase of 17.9% will yield a 51.9mpg Highway coupled with a 15.9 tank means this car could theoretically travel 825mi on a single tank
@DaBinChe
@DaBinChe Год назад
Now all you need is a Vtech sticker to increase the HP.
@MrPhippo91
@MrPhippo91 Год назад
I think the decreased efficency is because the backend where the license plate is atached is much bigger than on the first version and therefore causes way more turbulences.
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