Becoming a progressive Mormon Bishop, Son Comes Out as Gay - Evan and Wes Smith Pt. 1 | Ep. 1666 

Thank you! I was attacked by Mormon Apologists when I pointed out that men were sealed to each other in the early days of The Church. Then I was called ignorant and told to read the scriptures and pray. I asked; who is the one who is being ignorant?

Evan, I married your cousin Donna’s oldest son. When I moved from Canada when we married I believed in the church 1000%, as the years went on and my shelf broke, and I read church history, it destroyed me. I knew our marriage couldn’t withstand the faith transition of just myself. Hearing your words and admittance of things that you feel you’ve done (as you were taught to do) in the past that you are now aware of, you are doing exactly what all wish the church would do. I’m so happy you and Cheryl are still together and helping one another through the transition. Sending love to your family and Mom. ❤

i'm from italy and have never been involved in any faith (aside from the catholic church of course, but very briefly as a kid and from an outside prospective later). your channel is incredible, i love the way you carry out these interviews, they are crearly heartfelt and they manage to come across both as very human and compassionate and at the same time as intellectually fascinating. you are truly a gem! love your work

Evan Smith recounting how he spent 60 hours a week at the office, would come home to work some more, try to be a husband and father, then do hours of church work, and pay a full tithe makes me think of the perfect Mormon motto: what’s mine is mine, what’s yours is mine, and anything left over I’ll take. It’s as if the Mormon church just demands more and more and sucks you dry until you are a husk.

Can we talk about how his dad donated properties to the church?! This was a major shock to me 🤯. Like one, that they would accept something like that. And two, what did they do with the property? And three, the disparity between the social classes is so great. Im still disappointed that I didn't get to continue dance class when I was little, like 4. Maybe if my parents hadn't paid tithing, they would have had money for my dance classes. And four, tithing is crazy, like the spell I was under and everyone is under is just crazy. My husband finally got through to me, and now...I'm an exmo.

As a queer woman, if anyone here in the comments section feels they have been homophobic and is planning an apology, I want to encourage you to be sensitive about how you do so. Apologies should be for the sake of the person you hurt, not yourself. For me, it adds insult to injury if someone who has hurt me apologizes profusely, repeatedly, or with intense emotion to the point where I am forced to comfort or reassure them, as it feels they are seeking absolution and closure for themselves at the cost of my wellbeing when they were the initial aggressor. While I understand that not everyone may feel that way and that guilt and embarrassment can be intense after a mistake, the person who was hurt by your mistake is rarely the right person to help you work through your emotions surrounding it. I wish you all the best.

I have a very difficult time with “progressive Mormons” if you are donating 10% of your income and sustaining the prophet then you aren’t an ally. I’m tired of hearing people claim otherwise.

Elder Ballard visited my mission around 2003-early 2004. He explicitly taught us (the missionaries) that we should be inviting people to be members on the first discussion--no exceptions. This was around the time that they were putting together the content for "Preach my Gospel," which came out shortly after I came home.

I will never forget the Sunday he talked to us and told us it wasn’t a choice. We trusted him and I changed what I thought after that. Evan I am ashamed of my past thoughts too. Thanks for being so brave!

Love this series. As a mom of a gay daughter- ( who when she came out had just been released as the relief society President), I see sooo much of my progression in these stories. Except I was horrible when my daughter first came out. ( at 13), I told her she could pray it away ( based on my own experience of praying feelings for someone I shouldn’t be having feelings for away). Then over time I progressed to 5 year later when she was 18, to- okay, it’s okay your gay and I love you BUT, I don’t agree with it. To now- 10 years later at 23 ( and actually this happened a year ago) to, I’m proud your gay and I do agree with it and I KNOW god loves you and wants you to be happy and YES gay people will be in heaven as gay couples and YES that is gods plan for gay people to marry and have families ( and I was still a believing mormon at that point- because the darn Book of Mormon was true. But I thought I was a true ally believing it. But now- i KNOw it’s not try ( the church) and no- it’s impossible to stay in the church and be a TRUE ally of the LQTBq+ community.

I had no idea that Blake Shelton was a Mormon bishop. Really happy to see the work he has done in the lives of his congregants.

Right around the time that I came out, I came across Evan's book. He modeled true allyship.

14 min in…. Why am I already crying so much. I’m so grateful for the vulnerability people are willing to share. Thank you. Thank you.

what a sad state of affairs that his wife was crying in a bathroom and obviously felt helpless and powerless within the Mormon patriarchy. So sad women don't feel they can say "I said no. This is not a good thing for our family. Consult your divine inspiration for another choice."

The willingness to name our biases and prejudices and admit behaviors that were homophobic or racist is so important. Thankful for your example Evan. Humility and honesty are the only way forward for all of us, regardless of where we fall on the spectrum of faith and religion.

Evan and Weston have been in my thoughts today..A day where we again mourn loss in the LGBTQ following massacre in Colorado Springs..I just watched with my Husband ( on a marathon view)both Evan & Weston stories..then..today another act of hate..I couldn't help but compare the uplifting feeling while watching your sessions..despite the pain.. I came away thankful for you both for being courageous and exemplary of "love is love".. I was raised LDS in New Jersey / NYC area...my Dad was my Branch President.. I came out to him my Senior Year..he reacted with love..yet..told me in no uncertainty I was never to act on those feelings..and stay close to the Church.. Served my Mission..came home..moved to SLC..met and within 3 months married in the Temple..all knowing I was hiding & hoping I would be saved..I Fathered 4 beautiful children..served in Bishoprics and Stake callings..for 18 years " acted" the part..as was Weston ..I was living an existence of inner turmoil,depression, anger and self hatred..I had planned when released from serving in Bishopric I would leave the Chapel and go hang myself..luckily this didnt happen..I instead chose to be brave and leave the marriage and go into cognitive therapy to find myself and be a healed Father to my children..The Bishop gathered my Children into his Office with my wife & told them I was not worthy of them..if they remained close to the Church..they would be given a worthy Father in the hereafter...my 2 oldest children never returned to the Church after this discussion.. I wish Evan you were that Bishop...they would not have been so ashamed of me I divorced..it was not easy..all those same individuals I served with in the various callings..now ignored me.. I was banished from my Family and forbidden to visit or contact. I sought confidence and self acceptance via therapy..met and married my Husband ( legal in The Netherlands where my Sister lived in 1991)..I have Family who have remained in Church & have Family who've left..My Husband is most loving and supportive.. Yet..understanding when I view stories like Evan and Weston..and weep uncontrollable at times..he knows its something still difficult for me to re-live. I honestly share my up most respect for you both..support and unconditional love you both share and your Family..Thank You for sharing..Thank You for acknowledging those not brave enough to endure..yet..may their memory be a blessing on us all...

0:55:00 That quote on inter-racial marriage is what was used against me (white) when I was getting serious with my Hispanic girlfriend. Both of us were raised in the church and in the US and went to US schools. To quote Tom Petty, "She was.......an American girl." But my folks had a problem with her because of this church teaching on interracial marriage. That it's not a sin.....it's just "not expedient." Everything kind of blew up one night and there was a sort of intervention conducted on me. So I left out of there, drove to her place to talk to her about it. We married three days later. She maintains that she married - because her folks were there - and that I eloped. So yeah......I have direct experience with this.

I've read both books. Weston's book is a brutally honest and gut-wrenching insight into the life of a gay member and missionary. It was hard to read, but a must need to know. Every leader and member (parent/grandparent) should read it. I immediately sent a recommendation and some insights to my Bishop and Stake President to read it. Evan's book along with Kyle Ashworth's "On the Record" are the two best sources I have come across in examining and answering my questions in regards to the Church's LGBTQ+ Doctrine and Policies. Again, every leader and member should read both.

Really appreciated Gerardo's co-hosting on this episode. You are so knowledgable and your unique perspective is so helpful.

I am totally loving this interview! Our family shares so much in common with the Smith's! Thanks for sharing your experiences. I will definitely be buying the books!

just starting this one. I followed advice and found part 1. FYI the playlist did not exist. Totally excited for this. Never Mormon straight *ish* senior citizen loving the lessons. Talked to my big sister and learned she has been on board since you did not have video! The intersections in our lives with or without Mormonism hits me deep. Anything I can listen to about being authentic serves me well. So much love.

Just wondering what happened to the original of this podcast. I listened to about half an hour of it a few days ago, and later that night, it was no longer on RU-vid.

It is Amazing your father survived stage four melanoma! That’s excellent! When I started working with cancer patients that was such a killer; still is. New chemotherapy now has them surviving. Everybody; get your screenings! Saved my life!

The first place I learned about smear the ____ was AT a Mormon church function.

Evan mentioned 2 general authorities he has conversations with in part 3. My baby brother is one of them. We always called him the "golden boy" when we were growing up. Our lives have obviously gone in different directions.

Not too deep into the interview yet and hallelujah, Gerardo is back! Adds soooooo much goodness.

LOL! I totally remember the missionaries in San Francisco mid nineties! Were you part of the group singing Christmas Carols at the Cable Car turnaround on Market Street? I used to see them on the bus out in the Western Addition. It seems that the Church has given up on San Francisco and I never see them anymore. I did see a Chinese LDS Church a couple of months ago in Chinatown (across from Imperial Palace/ home of The infamous Chinatown shootout) I also saw some missionaries at Lake Merrrit recently but that’s it. It’s like the Church has retreated in The City

I had my endowment in Cardston in 1998 and it was a movie.

OMGosh at 1 hour he tells of being in Oakland (my hometown) and teaching the fence sitting. He tears up. More love. (2 comment limit I swear!!)

In Cardston Canada Tempel When I went through they had videos but you still walked from room to room, this is after the penalties too. They used to do it live and now they just have audio. For people that can’t do the stairs there’s a special session for them where they start and end at the last room and they go to an elevator to get up there.

Already watched this one and it got deleted

Im in New Zealand, my grandfather was a Bishop of the church and both me and my uncle are gay. My uncle even went on mission and studied at BYU Hawaii

ABSOLUTELY loved this! Evan you and your wife are wonderful parents and you are a wonderful individual. Thank you so much for sharing your story!

If a missionary came across a scientologist what would be the response? Both groups focus on planets.

My son has gone through the scriptures and polygamy isn't a thing of God.

John McCune was my bishop in Idaho and he was a super nosy bishop and I cannot stand him!

His poor wife! These man have no clue. Her voicing concern over being called branch president is a huge red flag to not call this man.

Not everyone was watching Glen Beck. It was a choice made to watch it. I wasn't. Plenty of people were accepting of the LGBTQ community.

Thanks for sharing your story, Evan!

I've lived in Canada my whole life and I never noticed that gay marriage had become legal until it had already been for a few years.

I've heard that they are stopping it in Manti as well

If all the goodness in Mormanism: the love, the healing, the families, the community service were about God and devoting a deep personal relationship and devotion to God alone, and all the unfortunate mistakes, misconceptions, bigotry, misogyny, irrelevant practices and beliefs were attributed to the innate fallibility of humans, and church sought to development ally align with the goodness and pure love of God instead of rigidly bolstering the assumed power and profane authority of men, I think it might work if the church became transparent regarding money and wealth and that got shuffled down on the list of importance beneath God, the wellbeing and sanity of people, honesty, joy, love, health relationships and pets. What a church that would be.

Especially when the husband has total control over which "callings" his wife accepts. He can totally say no and his decision would be respected. Its time for women to start standing up and saying NO. What's the worse that could happen? The leaders might call them to repentance? It's time for women to start saying ..." the inspiration God gave me is different than yours. And I'm going to follow what God is telling me. If you have a problem take it up with God."

Thanks for being vulnerable and sharing your stories!

Uncle Blaine! My dad is a Blane, spelled without the “i” … it caught my attention when you mentioned another Blaine!

In my neighborhood a kid fell from 2nd floor too and he was ok too, excepts this kid was like 4 year old.

thank you for sharing and i understand it is NOT easy.. but you are true brave!

John Dehlin!! The Jiffy Lube Mortenson's are my uncle and aunt!! Are we distantly related?!?!?! 😱😱😱

Talk about obedience - Wearing dress clothes to bed….

Thank you so much for sharing your stories. I look forward hearing from Wes in part 2. You are correct, Evan. It’s all about charity. Otherwise it’s meaningless, whether you are part or not or the church, we should have charity towards each other.

Found it! Gahhh. RU-vid makes things so much harder sometimes.

I find a lot of what is said here interesting but must say it bothers me that Mormonism rewards the male gungho extrovert, especially if that person is/seems to be a super achiever. I know personally this Oakland Mission President because my brother married into his family. His hard charging/demanding/obedience driven persona didn't work so well at home where one son intentionally shot himself in the stomach as a teenager (luckily survived) and other children slept with everything they came in contact with (including the daughters). I found it scary that he was always preaching loyalty to the brethren, that was his testimony, not to "the gospel" or "truth" or even Jesus Christ. I heard it personally many times. I wonder how many young men's lives he ruined by sending them home for breaking a rule (not a commandment) rather than showing compassion and understanding. I served a mission a few years before Evan in the US and luckily had a mission president that was motivated mostly by love. Not sure how he got away with it since like most US missions it was low baptizing, but we never felt pressure to baptize at all costs and we only had once a week call in of our stats with our district leaders. We even had zone leaders that never got a single baptism their entire mission yet he called them as Zone Leaders. I luckily grew up in a home where my father (who had been a branch president, then a bishop, then a stake president, then a stake patriarch) didn't agree with every young man a missionary and multiple friends (including David B. Haight who he was personal friends with) told him mission presidents spend all their time running around trying to deal with all the problem missionaries that don't really want to be their. I personally recognized that few if any missionaries in my mission actually had what you could even remotely call a "testimony". But they were trying to do what they had been taught they were supposed to be doing. And I always loved the missionary testimony meetings at zone and area conferences that could not end until EVERY SINGLE MISSIONARY bore their testimony. I've spoken with lots of RM's from different missions and they all experienced exactly the same thing, and related the same long awkward silences waiting for some missionaries to finally swear their loyalty , I mean bear their testimony, before the meeting could end. Really sad and scary stuff. All of it teaching young people to lie. To themselves and then to others. But all of that fits when apostles teach that the way to gain a testimony is to bear it. It constantly makes me think of initiation tests that gang members are made to perform, and once their performed it is much harder to back away. It really is extremely similar. Obviously I no longer believe and luckily avoided (barely) the dangerous box I would have been in if I'd married a mormon girl. But it still took me years and years to see how dangerous and damaging it all is. Yes, that highly structured belief system can produce above average results, as in Evan's case. But only as long as it isn't questioned or examined. It doesn't show true caring for the weakest (but it does give plenty of lip service). If it truly cared for all it wouldn't encourage young people to "don't put off marriage or children" until after you've got your schooling and are a little more secure in life. Instead it says 'look at me, I'm an apostle, or seventy, I'm a super achiever and if I can do it then all you have to do is buckle down and make up your mind and you can (AND SHOULD) too. Yet there's not a Ward anywhere in north america that doesn't have families that had/have too many children, that aren't stable and never will be yet think they are following the leaders counsel. The leaders counsel often falls hardest and exacts the greatest cost on the lives of the ordinary, who will never be among the super achievers. It is not looking after the weakest among us when we actively encourage them to follow a path that will only work for a very very select few.

I am so excited for this one!

Thank you father and son…this is amazing, to bad everyone doesn’t focus on loving everyone and charity to all.

This man, Evan, is a sweetheart!

People like you, Rod, are the problem, with your divisiveness, bigotry, judgment, exclusion, & belief that you and others, who believe what you believe are somehow more worthy than an individual who is gay. There are so many scientific studies that show that homosexuality is not a learned behavior for those that fully identify with that sexual orientation. Was being heterosexual something you simply learned how to be from somebody else, or did you just know always that you are heterosexual? It’s the same as it is for people who are gay, even though you can’t understand that. You are entitled to your beliefs as is everyone else, but that doesn’t make you right, and it certainly doesn’t make you the authority or the judge of others.

Anyone know the name of the auto immune disease he talks about?

no such thing

Our culture has accepted sin as a lifestyle and some mormons think we should support people in their sinful lifestyles. Drug addiction, porn or sex addiction, gambling addiction are things some people struggle with but we wouldnt accept that as a lifestyle and support you meaning we shouldnt accept your gay lifestyle and support you. Yeah these sexual perversions and addictions are hard and crippling but we can love you while also not supporting the thing that will lead to spiritual death.

Priestcraft.

Sex can only be within a marriage between a man and a woman. Did I miss something in Scripture or policy? Everyone gets to talking and arguing about rights and freedoms but please re-read my first sentence and consider what how you should be acting.

LDS Rules

Homosexuality is a learned behavior, not a God given trait. Progressivism has zero place in Mormonism. We have absolutes!