Beekeeping; How to Survive Extreme Winters with Etienne Tardif 

See Etienne's RU-vid Channel here: ru-vid.com/show-UC-BMXy_Hxg_PF35VGPxgr1Q Donate to Etienne's Winter/Hive Insulation Research here: www.paypal.com/donate/?token=2rIHtJB9kWI1P4v9eeBPxqg9-ePgLGs6Pv7z9gN45hwLhTpHZkeB-CoXukJ6bH8i64WNfeGrWSE2f2xp&fbclid=IwAR2DrIjF1rw5aQ0iwQxRW68nLzxdEhQwd0D1zwI9cpsyyXn0Vg-g_yFhDLM His website is link is below: www.northof60beekeeping.com/?fbclid=IwAR0R0RRm2cgSs0v5xB-jqi0dGjpf1T5CbW2wRq19xXcy8uL3v_n7JW84Zcg

Thanks Kamon for having this guy on. I am in South Dakota and always looking for new information on wintering in the cold. Thanks for helping to educate people outside your own area and needs.

Thanks so much for this video Kamon and many thanks out to Etienne. I'm a beekeeper in Massachusetts. I live on the coast and we get 60 mph winds here in the winters from Nor'easter storms. I am very frustrated with the Lyson hive to the point of giving up on them this year. . I have followed several ways on how to ventilate the hive in the winter. All failed and I kept on finding soggy bees inside. Leaving the screened bottom open without the draw in didn't work. I couldn't figure out as to why there was water puddled in between the boxes on the black plastic rim when I figured out that my bees were dead in December. Etienne's comments on how the polystyrene hives have a lot of condensation pouring from the sides has solved this mystery for me. I have lost my Lyson hive bees 3 yrs in a row. My wooden bee hives have survived. I got Lyson because of back problems and the higher insulation factor. Why am I paying more $ if I have to put a sheet of pine along the sides to soak up the condensation? I'm still confused as to the setup in the box. You put tape over the tops of two frames on either side of the Lyson along inserting a pine board on the sides, is that right? Or are those foam insulation boards with tape on top? It would be nice if there could be a video on how Lyson hives works and how to use them. I still don't understand as to why Lyson hives have an inner cover that sits on the inside of the box - bees get crushed no matter what every time you place the cover on. I fail to see the advantage of having vents on the top outer cover. Wouldn't cold air flow through if one leaves a top vent open during the winter causing heat loss and condensation problems? I really can't find anything much out there including bee forums.

This guy knows the struggles us Canadian Beekeepers go through. Defiantly learned a lot more than I knew after watching this! Great work.

Engineers are great at the details, thank you Etienne!

Insulation is king. Here in Texas we are insulating from the heat and the sun but the concept still applies!

Condensed notes from listening to Etienne, part 1: (These are my key takeaways. Feel free to copy and paste for quick reference.) 1. Insulation reduces honey consumption in winter, which means: --Lower risk of starvation, --Lower risk of dysentery due to ash buildup in the gut, --Less condensation due to less water intake/water production, and --Bigger honey harvests. 2. Eating honey produces moisture in 2 ways: --The 15-20% moisture in the honey goes into the bee's body and is released in its breath, --Part of each sugar molecule is converted into H2O when it is metabolized (and this is also released in the bee's breath) to the tune of an extra 3/4 cup of water per pound of honey! 3. Conventional wisdom about the bees only heating the cluster, not the hive, is only true in conventional wooden hives. It is true there only because every watt of heat radiates through the walls as soon as the bees produce it, meaning they have to eat and eat and eat just to stay warm. In insulated cavities, the bees heat the cavity. (So, hollow trees and poly hives). In Etienne's hives, the entire cavity stays at or above 40 degrees F, even near the entrance, even when it's minus 40 outside. In other words, most of the hive is accessible to the bees throughout the entire winter. Which leads to an even lower risk of starvation (no honey left behind). 4. Insulated hives cost more than wooden ones, but they pay for themselves quickly (due to less mortality and a bigger honey harvest). 5. Conventional wisdom about bees needing upper ventilation to stay dry in winter, is only true in thin-roofed wooden hives. It is true there because the warm, moist air from the bees' breath rises straight up and encounters a very cold ceiling. The cold ceiling immediately cools that warm, moist air off to a temperature far below its dew point, forcing it to deposit its humidity directly onto the nearest surface, which is the ceiling directly above the bees, where it accumulates and drips down on them. 6. The conventional way to solve this problem is to release the moisture through an upper vent/upper entrance, wasting a huge number of BTUs. Etienne's way to solve this problem is to insulate the roof so much that it never gets colder than the dew point, and the condensation happens at the bottom of the hive, below the cluster. At 40 below, condensation is going to happen to matter what you do. Therefore, since Etienne can't stop it from happening, he does the next best thing, which is to CHOOSE THE LOCATION where it is going to happen. He does this by having all ventilation occur at the bottom of the hive, between the entrance and the screened bottom board, ensuring that the coldest part of the hive is below the bees. 7. Because warm air rises, a conventional hive loses 15-20% more heat through the ceiling than through the walls. Another reason to insulate the top more than the sides. 8. Etienne used to find dead/wet bees along the walls due to condensation forming there, but lining the walls with plywood somehow solved that problem. He's not sure why. (His guess: the plywood absorbs the moisture as soon as it forms. My guess: the thermal mass of the plywood helps the inner surface of the plywood stay warmer than the dew point, causing the condensation to happen behind the plywood.) 9. There's more to temperature control than insulation. The only thing that insulation does is slow the transfer of heat from one place to another. Thermal mass actually STORES heat. Thermal mass is anything heavy that takes a long time to heat up and a long time to cool down (like a slab of concrete, a comb full of honey, or the wall of a hollow tree cavity). So honey stores are more than just food, they also help with climate control. 10. Etienne seals the gap between the lid and hive body with vapor barrier tape to stop cold drafts, so that the ceiling above the cluster stays warmer than the dew point. Otherwise, a large amount of heat is lost at this seam, as his infrared camera shows. 11. Random fact: disturbing/tapping the hive increases a colony's metabolic rate by a factor of 4 to 6, for a period between 4 and 72 hours (as measured by the increased amount of heat they release during that time). This means their rate of eating honey increases by a factor of 4 to 6 until they calm down again. (I'm thinking that those "4-hour bees" are the "quiet bees" that Michael Palmer selects for). 12. The honey consumption of Etienne's bees pre-brood is 3-4 pounds/month. After brood rearing starts, it becomes 14 to 16 pounds/month! 13. Etienne triggers brood rearing in March by adding a pollen patty. Within hours, the temperature spikes as they shift into brooding mode. 14. Conventional wisdom about bees needing a huge space full of honey, to not starve before spring, is not true in poly hives. The amount of honey and space that they need is proportional to the amount of bees. Etienne's small colonies do not survive if he puts them in large hives full of honey. They do survive if he winters them in nuc boxes (5x5s). Smaller colonies need less food; and they struggle to heat large cavities, even if they have all the food they could possibly eat. 15. Bees start to cluster at about 50 degrees F. Down to about 40 degrees, they control the temperature by tightening the cluster, rather than by increasing honey intake. At 40 degrees F, the cluster is as tight as it can get, and they start eating more as the temperature gets lower.

Amazing interview , learned a lot today , thank you

Thank you Etienne for such a informative presentation and thank you Kamon for doing this interview. I have learn the most about protecting bees for winter from this presentation and it will definitely help my bees. Thank you!

Just watching this video made me modify my plans for insulating my hives. (Like Taping the seams between the supers shut.) Quebec may not have as much snow and is not as cold as Yukon, but what I learned in this single video will help so much. Thank you Kamon and Etienne :)

This is beekeeping gold! After seeing this, I also decided to modify my Apimaye for winter. I removed the feeders, put on the queen excluder upside down to add more space, added a piece of duck cloth canvas on that so the bees can't move up, and then put on an empty medium super full of raw wool. This not only insulates really well, but it allows any moisture to pass right through the wool and out the vents. Just like that the overnight lows are now higher than the previous daily highs in this hive!

Thanks for doing this interview and posting Kamon. Very helpful for me. We get down to -20’s in the winter here. Some of this is new to me & I’ve heard some of this before, but confirmation by additional reliable sources is great.

Thank you so much for this video...the best one you ever produced Kamon, I would say. Question: We talk a lot about insulation and we have good data with regards to thermodynamics. I would like to know if your guest has any data on the relative humidity and the CO2 levels in a hive over the winter period? Thank you.

Such a great information ✌️✌️

Verry interesting data, awsome job Etienne!

Living in Maine this is a fountain of information for overwintering. Thank you so much!!!!! Having all this info.in one place from such an experienced bee keeper is so helpful. I'm actually looking forward to putting my bees to bed this year . Makes a big difference when you have a plan and taking out all the guess work.

Sorry I missed this one but I can listen to it this morning. Thanks for this particular episode.

Condensed notes from listening to Etienne, part 2: 17. Etienne worked with a beekeeper in Maryland who collected temperature data from their hives. The wooden hives in Maryland consumed 3 pounds/week at a 30 degree difference between the inner and outer temperatures. Etienne's hives consumed 0.3 pounds/week at a 30 degree difference between inner and outer temperatures. Etienne's bees at 100 times less honey than the Maryland bees in these circumstances. At least if I understand this correctly. 18. Etienne leans plywood against the front of his hives in winter for three reasons: --to keep snow from plugging up the entrances and reducing ventilation; --to prevent the sun from warming the entrance on cold days, so the bees don't take premature cleansing flights; and --to prevent excessive drafts from occurring due to wind. 19. Etienne's bees only eat 60 pounds in his 6-month winters. 20. Concepts to look up if you want to understand Etienne better: dew point; heating degree days; the three means of heat transfer (convection, conduction, and radiation). 21. To sum up, Etienne lowers heat loss in three ways. He lowers the radiation type of heat loss by having insulated hives. He lowers the convection type by having all ventilation occur at the bottom of the hive, away from the warm air. And he lowers the conduction type by having his hives butt up against each other to share heat (this also lowers the radiation type, since they are radiating heat into each other). 22. To be clear, there are 2 keys to Etienne's method of preventing condensation on the ceiling, and the 2 keys MUST both be present for this to work: --Enough insulation to keep the ceiling warmer than the dew point, and --Ventilation at the bottom rather than the top. The 2 keys must both be present, because it is not enough for the top of the hive to be warmer than the bottom. The top of the hive must be warmer than the dew point of the bees' breath. The top of the hive will be warmer than the bottom regardless, if there is no upper vent; because the warm air will collect there and will radiate heat into the surrounding materials (until it cools off enough to sink down the sides of the box and be displaced by the new warm air coming up from the cluster). So even if the ceiling is the warmest surface in the hive, moisture can still condense there, if it is not warm ENOUGH. The point is that you can't just plug your upper entrance, put an extra layer of foam on top, and GUARANTEE that condensation won't happen above the bees. The only way to GUARANTEE that condensation happens below the bees and not above, is to GUARANTEE that the ceiling never gets colder than the dew point of the bees' breath. 23. Review of how condensation happens: Warm air can contain a lot of water vapor, and cold air can't. The maximum amount of water that 100° air can contain, is much higher than the maximum amount of H2O that 50° air can contain. (Of course, air usually doesn't usually contain the absolute maximum amount that it CAN, unless maybe you live next to the ocean or something.) That is why humidity is measured as "relative" humidity, because it's "relative" to the maximum amount of H2O the air can contain at that particular temperature. So 50% relative humidity when it's warm out vs 100% relative humidity when it's cold out, might actually represent the exact same amount of water (because it's 50% of the max and 100% of the max). For example, 70% relative humidity at 39°, means 70% of the maximum amount of H2O that 39° air can contain. And 70% relative humidity at 85°, means 70% of the maximum amount of H2O that 85° air can contain. BUT 70% relative humidity at 85° is a lot more water vapor than 70% relative humidity at 39°. So when the temperature of an air mass goes up, and the amount of water vapor in it stays the same, the relative humidity goes down. When the temperature of an air mass goes down, and the amount of water vapor in it stays the same, the percent relative humidity goes up. But that percent can never go above 100%. When the temperature goes so low that the air is holding all the water vapor it can (at that cold temperature), it is said to be saturated. If that saturated air gets any colder, some of the water vapor is forced to turn back into a liquid--and that is condensation. Now, the dew point of an air mass is the temperature at which it becomes saturated. So if the ceiling of your hive is not warmer than the dew point, then the warm air will touch the ceiling, cool off until it is saturated, and then be forced to release some moisture. So the dew point of your bees' breath depends on how much water vapor it contains. 24. Etienne points out that none of this matters if your winter bees are sick or malnourished. His late summer pollen is neither abundant enough nor varied enough to raise healthy, fat, winter bees. In fact, it's so bad that the bees start bringing in rust spores instead of pollen, and they stop brooding as soon as that happens. So he gives them pollen patties before the rust appears. 25. They tend to make lots of honeydew honey in the boreal forest. This honey contains lots of ash. One year he let them have it for winter and had terrible dysentery issues with high mortality. The poop was also full of nosema spores. So now he pulls off all the honeydew and fills them up with sugar syrup. 26. Etienne knows the amount of energy released by metabolizing a molecule of any sugar. He can also calculate the number of molecules of sugar in a pound of syrup. So he can calculate the watts of heat produced by "burning" a pound of syrup. Well, his hives are full of temperature sensors, so that allows him to measure how many watts of heat the cluster produces. Therefore his temperature data allows him to calculate the weight of his colonies at the end of winter, without weighing them. He claims that he is always accurate to within five pounds. Out of reach for most people, including me, but amazing nonetheless. 27. In the same vein as #26, Etienne came up with a unit of measure called "cluster degree days" to allow people to calculate the energy requirements of their hives (in other words, the winter honey requirements). I don't understand it very well, but it's akin to the unit of measure called "heating degree days," used for measuring the amount of energy that is needed to keep a building warmer than 65° F all winter long.

Thanks Kamon and Etienne, from N-east WY. Probably the best presentation I've seen on insulation and ventilation. I'm a firm believer in insulation, though I only use 1 & 1.5" on the sides 1/2" under the screened bottoms, and a super full of wood shavings for top insulation. I like his idea with the plywood shading the entrances to reduce bees flying into the snow on sunny days. That is a problem here too. I see Etienne has an article in this month's ABJ. Ironically, there is also an article about insulation and no upper entrances.

Thanks Kamon for this research that he had done in his climate. Makes me think I need 6-8" side wall insulation and 12" roof insulation for my extreme highs and lows here just north of Houston,Tx.

Great video! It's awesome to see engineering knowledge applied to beekeeping. Being from Michigan I've bought many of the poly hives but lately instead of spending way too much for what they are, I just make wooden boxes and nucs... like the nuc plans that you gave, and glue R10 pink panther foam to the outsides of them with Great Stuff which costs around 3 dollars a can. This works well with nucs especially and is much cheaper than spending 45-50 dollars for lyson, paradise or beemax, which are overpriced imo if you have a lot of hives. Then I paint the foam to protect from uv. They hold up well if not smashed around.

Good info… I use much of the same here in the Western Catskills of NY…insulated cozy…insulated top cover…very limited upper vent….combination of Dbl/Single deeps and 1or2 supers….and a months worth of mite control in the fall.

Hi folks I live in Virginia because of this video I am thinking about insulating my hives any folks out there in Virginia feel the same way Thanks

I can't post pic but I use 2" xps all around my hives ,had great success last year 30 min from Canada, but have numerous lakes around ,so lake effect snows,4 to 17 foot a season ,temps 0 to -30f Bees inhive almost 6 months

Where you live it is probally a dry cold, in that all moisture has been frozen out of the air, but in Ireland where I live, it is seldom below zero so our so we have damp air most of winter. But thanks for all the information.

That honey dew will cross your eyes. I get it in my boxes during dry times. Oak trees are just buzzing

Kamon - I hope you have invited Etienne to the conference as a resource. I was not able to view this live and ask questions but I certainly have a bunch. I live just south of Fairbanks Alaska, am coming to the conference. Quite a few bee keepers in Alaska that do not know how to over winter bees.

curious to know if baby diapers would do a better job of absorbing moisture than word chips.

GOOD VID,,im a newb in Ashtabula,Oh southside of city,,middle of snowbelt (i can see Lake Erie),,,,lake effects get -75 windchill with 3-4ft snow,,ive built a windproof shelter around the 5 hives in my apairy with pine and tree fall prunings,,i stacked it 6-8ft away 5-6ft deep on the north and west sides so i have some airflow,,im also installing the new temp/humidity/weight gauges a company made specifectly for winter,,it should work

In Tennessee.. when is the earliest time of the year there are usually ALL winter bees in the box.. :)

Hi, I missed the live! Sorry. I was building boxes... Anyway, I think top entrance is a must in winter ( 1 1/2 x 1 ) inch. And put a 1/2 inch ply with a 2 inch hole instead of the classical inner cover. The bees will block the hole if they need to keep the heat. One thing I learned is to keep it simple.

Fabulous

That tape would be called tyvex tape in the states

Tyvek,typar tape in USA also zip systems has a tape

Kamon, I have been trying various types/ways of insulating our hives for almost 15 years which DOES help a lot but in our area the fire ants and other ants are a BIG, BIG problem. I have tried various types of foam insulation like polystyrene, polyisocyanurate, Styrofoam, etc. and the ants literally turn them all into insulation versions of Swiss Cheese or dust burrowing into it. The bees will to a certain extent as well. Bee Cozies do work OK but don't last very long due to mice, skunks, etc. chewing holes in it which then gets water soaked. The Easy - On Beehive covers work the best but only provide roughly R-5 or R-6. I got Albert Zook to make me several vinyl hive wraps with 3 layers of Reflectix bubble insulation that work pretty good but still not as much insulation as I want so I have been sliding a Bee Cozy over top of it. I have been placing two 2 inch layers of polyisocyanurate aluminum backed board insulation on top of each hive inner cover or on top of a syrup feeder bucket cut to fit inside a deep 10 frame box which works well but the ants eventually get into it and ruin it. Once I have used up the insulation I have on hand, I will be trying Rock Wool insulation in the form of Comfort Board 80 or Comfort Board 110. Which is water repellent, bug proof, fire proof, and can be easily cut to size with a bread knife. Rock Wool Comfort Board 80 &110 come in thickness ranging from 1 inch to 5 inches and has an approximate R value of R-4 per inch. Just about perfect for beehive insulation in my opinion but I have to begin testing it before I can make any recommendations. I need to work on the best method of attachment. What sounds great in theory does not always work out in real world application. Really interesting zoom session. Enjoyed it. 👍

Kamon, will the files Etienne sent you be available for sale?

Watched the whole thing real-time. Too bad he can’t come to Hive life

So great to confirm many of my thermodynamic suspicions. Where can I find the pdf of Etienne's slides?

I will modify my plans to insulate this year. I lost a hive because of a cold snap, they could not relocate. How do you manage moisture with insulated hives? I have solid bottom boards, was going to add vent holes on top with 2 inch of wood chips. Now thinking about adding insulation, no vent holes. Wanna keep them dry.

Just went in to check my hives and how they are doing on feed. Thinking I was going to help them I added some of the uncapped honey I spun out at harvest and added it to the 2:1 syrup. I now realize that was a mistake because the syrup definitely smells fermented now. Should I dump all of the syrup still on the hives and make new batch? Is this going to make them sick in winter what they did take down?

Hi Kamon! Quick question. Some harvested honey I have has come into contact with street runoff residue (stupidly washed filter I used on the honey with the same hose I use to pump out street water from my flooded garage). I don't feel comfortable having it be used for human consumption. Can I give it back to the bees?

Kamon, thanks for another awesome video. I got side-tracked and missed the live stream. I am almost finished with the video and have a couple questions for Etienne. What are his thoughts on varroa resistant honey bees like the Weavers, mite- maulers, and VSH? Does he think that Russian Bees are a better solution for northern bee keepers? If he uses some of the varroa resistant bees, does he see some increased defensiveness and his thoughts on them. Thanks, for northeastern Wisconsin.

Hey Kayman new to beekeeping, I had two weak hives and combined them now I have 6-7 frames of bees in 10 frame deep. They have pretty well no resources I am feeding daily trying to get them built up for winter. Do you think they will have enough time to save resources? I live in East Tennessee area.

Kamon are u going to wrap all your hives

Is there any native honey bees there