Before the Federation : Romulans in the Shadows 

... If you want to hear me curse out of frustration.. Stay tuned in the video.. Somewhere in there.. I get mad at myself ;P

3:15 it was an old minefield. the Romulans probably set it up a few centuries ago and didn't bother to clean it up. Also, leaving them all over that star system let's you prevent people from moving in without actually needing a permanent presence.

My personal cannon on the Romulan Ship in BoT is that it had to sacrafice warp drive(or an equivlent FTL) to power the cloak or the ship couldn't have both due to warp signature bleeding through the cloak( like the Defiant)

Ok 2 minutes in. TOS didn't make the same distinction between impulse and faster than light that a modern trekkie might. But this entire stupid 50year old confusion goes away when one concludes the romulan ship uses fusion to heat the warp plasma. Federation ships use antimatter which allows them vastly faster warp factors from the extra energy. By the TNG era Romulans use black holes to superheat the warp plasma. The TOS warbird has warp nacelles and obvious FTL capability - just not an even match for the Enterprise in terms of speed. Admittedly this rant is fresh in my mind because of the recent Star Trek Continues episode.

The two canon books you need to find are Strangers from the Sky and a two handed book called Worlds of the Federation. The first one is the origin of first contact with the T'Khashi or the Federation name of Vulcan. The second has pictures along with a back story from the enterprise tos. It also states of the Starliner Enterprise visiting Alpha Centauri meeting Zephram Cochran; the Centauri people were curious about exploration but didn't take the next step. When the Terrans did first contact they used mathematics and a friendship was born. As for the romulans, they fought the Terrans between each other's territory in open space with very low warp-ion drive ships each side using atomics no quarter given. Eventually the Terrans out flanked them and the treaty of Algeron was done by sub space radio establishing the Neutral Zone both sides compromised on developing technology. The Pegasus cloaking prototype was destroyed by the romulans but the blueprints never seem to be found, hmm!

Omg i forgot how adorable that albino Andorian was.

The explanation common in several old star trek books (non cannon but this was semi consistent for a good while) was that the Romulans leaving Vulcan used a form of nuclear drive based low warp when leaving Vulcan. The nuclear radiation had some involvement in increasing genetic movement away from the original Vulcan blueprint.

I don't remember where I read it, but I think the Vulcan defectors that later became Romulans lived on a giant close-to-warp-speed colony ship. They lived their lives there for years before discovering Romulous. It was on that ship that they improved their technology as they ran and perfected resource recycling. Their technology and resources were better than before they left when they began colonizing Romulous. Remus and the Remans didn't exist in Star Trek lore yet, I believe. I was 16, so it was 1988.

One thing we do know about the Earth/Romulan war is that the Romulan's got beat so bad that their border got pushed straight back to Romulus. Romulus is only a few light years from the neutral zone. That is evidence of a substantial victory by Earth forces.

Another thing I like about the romulans is that they're much more willing to take risks When developing new technologies. Quite frankly I definitely prefer the quantum singularity Drive to a standard warp core it just seems so much cooler and as long as you know how to maintain it properly it also seems a lot more efficient.

I know the line is "Simple Impulse" but I wonder if one of two things, either the ship was just limited to impulse while using so much power for this early cloaking device or given the secrecy of the Romulans it just wasn't a recognizable warp drive since as mentioned the Romulans use a form of quantum singularity rather than the typical warp drive seen otherwise so it might just not have been known or a combination of both. Just seems unlikely for a prototype ship to travel across the neutral zone limited to impulse the whole way...though there could be other explanations.

I like how the Romulus use the Roman Empire as it's backdrop

I love the romulans. I really would have enjoyed seeing a movie or miniseries really anything the further elaborated on the Romulan War. Not to mention they gave me one of my favorite Star Trek episodes of all time. It was the last episode of season 1 of The Next Generation the neutral zone. It was so wonderfully ominous we are back. That gave me goosebumps the first time I saw it. Also I thoroughly enjoyed that whole thing about the Raptor in the room. I'm not going to call it a pun because I thought it was genuinely clever.

I have absolutely no idea what "official" Romulan-Cardassian relations were like, but it was implied in DS9 that the Obsidian Order and the Tal Shiar knew about each other and had some animosity. I generally only like to use Alpha canon for Star Trek, but according to "A Stitch in Time", the two were in a HUGE cold war before the order collapsed. I have no idea when it started, but it was implied that it was rather lengthy.

The Romulan ship had to have warp drive. There is no way it could cross those light years so quickly without it. As a previous commenter stated, it was a 'gaffe' or else Scotty meant it was powered by impulse power source and not matter/antimatter annihilation.

The minefield makes sense as an information gathering tool. It allows the Romulan's to safely learn about the structural design, emergency systems, procedures, etc... of a race and their ships. Seems pretty Romulan to me.

Interesting, as ever. I agree that the Romulans being so secretive would handily explain why the little that WAS known about them was so contradictory. It does seem to be ingrained in their culture at every level, which could in turn explain how draconian the Tal Shiar were: they HAD to be, in order to keep rebels and terrorists in check. In a society where secrecy and organizational security are second nature to most, the secret police would need to really be on top of their game... and could never assume any conflict was truly over.

You're correct in juxtaposing the Vulcans and the Romulans. One of the main writers of the Star Trek saga in the TOS, D. C. Fontana, came up with the idea of two related alien species that were foils to one another. She worked into her writing in Star Trek her interest in Dualism (i.e. the state of two parts), co-eternal binary opposition (in philosophy), Moral dualism (between the benevolent and the malevolent), ditheism (implying rivalry and opposite), and the principles of yin and yang seen in Chinese philosophy, and is an important feature of Taoism and also discussed in Confucianism. As well as germinating the idea of the Vulcans versus the Romulans, Fontana came up with the idea of the Lazarus dude, and the idea of the Mirror Universe.

Rewatching these old vids.

Ive just binged ST Enterprise having missed the whole Xindi Crisis arc when it originally aired. Man I tell ya, it is still far and away my very favorite of all the Trek series. One of my favorite aspects if it was that by and large they left out the Romulans. They never made much sense to me being so advanced technologically but so war like and distrustful.

I had thought they had a slightly lower warp than the federation but due to the immense power requirements of the cloak were unable to use them both. If I'm not mistaken Romulans had a number of power problems due to their systems and engines running off a power generator as opposed to federation vessels whose main source of power was the engines.

*When a Romulan ship gets destroyed, what happens to the singularity core?! Love you content as always man!* 💙👍😎🍺🍻🍺

In Starfleet Battles, they get around the Romulan Warp question by inferring that the Romulans (*did* possess a form of Warp Drive, to travel strategic distances, but were unable to sustain a warp field during tactical combat - i.e. Up to about Warp 3, while powering shields and weapons.

I take the “simple impulse” line to mean that the BoP wasn’t capable of using its warp engines while cloaked. The cloak just required too much power. They could either cloak or go to warp or fire their weapons. The Plasma Torpedo probably required a great deal of power to create as well, and since the ship was testing the cloak and Plasma Torpedo, the Romulans probably prioritized the use of the cloak and weapons over warp capability.

Nice video Lore Reloaded! Out of curiousity, what are your thoughts on the Romulan drone ships from Enterprise? Namely, do you feel that they seem too advanced for that era and would have made more sense in TNG or DS9 etc? Or do you feel they gel with what little we know of early Romulan tech? Unlike say, the Enterprise era Romulan Birds of Prey that not only predate the first prototype seen in Balance of Terror, but honestly look more advanced than it XD P.S. at the very least, I DO feel that it would have made more sense for a Reman telepath to be controlling the ship rather than an Aenar, since the Romulans have plenty of those to spare as opposed to needing to hunt down an alien species so rare even on their own home world they were considered the stuff of myth and legend for centuries.

The Romulans and Klingons were allies at one point with the Klingons giving the Romulans warp drive in exchange for cloaking technology

aaaaaaaaaghghghghg! Of Course the Bird of Prey in Balance of Terror had warp! It couldn't use it while cloaked, so it was running on "simple impulse"! No need to invent "motherships" or something being "too expensive" The cloak "was possible, but the power drain would be enormous" in Spocks words. Otherwise, great video! But always go with Occam's razor.

@Lore Reloaded I watch your streams whenever I'm off work. I enjoyed it last night. Still looking forward too your delta quadrant vid.

Great video. Glad I subscribed to this channel, it's really informative.

Like many people you have misconstrued a single piece of dialogue from the TOs episode the balance of Terror to explain bad writing on the part of later people what's didn't actually occur in the original series. Scotty's line says that the bird of prey is powered by simple impulse. We know from a technological standpoint that when referring to impulse power in Star Trek they are referring to Fusion drives and by looking at the design of impulse engines we know that the power generation capabilities proceed the propulsive aspect and that an Impulse engine is capable of generating power without generating propulsion. Ultimately in order to best interpret this line one need only examine zefram Cochrane warp ship. There is simply no way that the Phoenix could have and matter-antimatter warp engine. Because there was no way for zefram Cochrane to make antimatter to power the ship. This means that the Phoenix had to have a fusion or fission powered warp drive. You also need to consider that there are number of systems on board a federation Starship that utilize warp fields without the benefit of matter-antimatter warp plasma to power them. The EPS conduit system which Powers all systems on a Starship does not contain Raw warp plasma from the main reactor and continues to function even with the warp engines completely offline. Well during early next Generation time from a production standpoint it may have been credible to make the argument that the romulans did not have warp drive at any point during the Enterprise or TOS era now that we have a much more in-depth overview and understanding of how the technology works that argument is no longer credible. Based on the design of the bird of prey the ship was intended to have warp drive. Based on the dialogue it is clear that this warp drive was powered buy an Impulse engine. Based on how warp engines work it is clear that even with warp drive the Romulan bird-of-prey would have been at a severe speed disadvantage and power disadvantage when compared to the Enterprise. And my mind based on the technical evidence available whether or not the romulans had warp drive even going back to the Enterprise era is not up for debate. The romulans even with their enhanced lifespan due to their Vocaloid physiology would not have been able to achieve an Interstellar Empire or fend-off the Klingons or anyone else like the orions who wanted to conquer their territory. There's no technical reason why they couldn't have warp drive. The true mystery is why bye TOs time the romulans had failed to develop matter-antimatter powered warp engines. It is clear that the romulans had not developed Singularity drives buy this time because they adopted Klingon matter-antimatter warp engines as the standard for their Fleet going into the TMP era.

Here's one for people to argue about LOL. How did the Romulan Empire form? Not on Romulus itself but what systems did they invade to form the Empire? I think they attacked and conquered all of those other colonies. The Debrune for example. The Romulan's on Romulus would have had a database charting the course of the other ships. A perfect map to form the early empire.

1:32 I think it's implied that the Vulcan civil war occurred at a time when the race was fairly advanced, they had nuclear weapons after all. It's not terribly surprising that they had spacecraft of one form or another. Even a primitive warp drive isn't out of the question. Of course following said civil war and the collapse of the vulcan civilization (along with what seems to be a severe technological regression) the knowledge for making stuff like that was probably lost and had to be rediscovered. Soval does state it took the Vulans a LONG time to recover.

The Romulan's probably got help from Pan-Dimensional greys to teleport them to a new world, crazy theory but anything is possible in sci-fi. That's 1 thing you never see in Star Trek is the classic grey aliens, who knows maybe they do exist and are just waiting along with their Draconion masters to overthrow all the Empires.

Inconsistencies between fictional works aren't necessary due to "bad writing" as you put it. Different works have different authors, who vary in their creative objectives and interpretations.

Love the video you did leave out the fact of the Romulan ambassador in Star Trek 6 The undiscovered country

Imagine how a society that developed in a solar system with heavier nuclear fuels than ours would look at us. "They burn liquified ancient plants for energy? WHY don't they just use element 115?". We would look bizarre and exotic with our gigantic rockets

o and i love what your doing here please keep it going, first chance i get the funds ill contribute to this channel, again keep up the good work. and another note when can we learn about the hurk? the species that invaded the klingons so long ago

Great video

In TNG The Romulans are supposed to be one half of the analogy of the Russian/Chinese communist pact. The Romulans act like the Soviet Union in how they seemed to conquer countries to put a barrier between them and Russia, so they wouldn't be invaded again like the Nazis, and others had done to them over, and over historically. It was less about spreading communism, and more about security. But, once they have vassals, and territory as a barrier, they act isolationist, and go quiet behind their borders for a while. There's no indication that the Romulans were invaded a lot in their history, but that would explain some of their aggressive, xenophobic, and paranoid behavior.

3:11 yeah i agree that was a kind of a dick move on the Romulans part LOL

For correct pronunciation of "Cheron" see TNG episode "The Defector" at 9 minutes in.

Enterprise did an awful job presenting the Romulans and their tech... cloaked mines was a brand new thing in DS9 but Enterprise decided to throw hell into the mix and have a cloaked minefield more than a century before Kirk commanded the USS Enterprise in TOS. Discussions on Romulan warp drive aside, the writers of Enterprise definitely screwed up the tech timeline for the Romulans in multiple other ways too.... How the hell would the Romulans be able to field effective combat probes with SUBSTANTIAL holographic projection technology AND multi light year range bio-neural command interfaces in the 2150's? I mean, 25th Century Federation (VOY Endgame) had only recently developed LOCALIZED neural computer interface technology that Voyager was unable to duplicate. And the holo technology? It wouldn't be until TNG that holodecks became a thing - and that was about 200 years AFTER Enterprise. Sure, you can argue that the Romulans were and always have been more advanced than Earth - which is sort of true - but this isn't simple advancement we're working with here... the Romulans are displaying feats of technology in Enterprise that are unheard of in Star Trek even centuries later than these events. These are technologies that would be more naturally found on Borg or Voth ships in the late 24th Century than on Romulan ships a century before James T. Kirk, in the 22nd Century. It's fine to have prequels that add details or exciting and dangerous villains to the story - even with Star Trek. It's even fine for there to be some - SOME - inaccuracies that can be chalked up to historical forgetfulness (we have that in the real world) but it is not fine to throw out all sense of scale and make those prequels showcase well known societies with powers, ships, or technologies that they couldn't even come close to matching in the original stories the prequels are based off of. Star Trek Discovery (STD) has this same problem - as shown by their Klingon ships and Spore Drive - and it's incredibly destructive to the story already told. If you're going to do a prequel... dammit at least keep some semblance that you're telling the same goddamn story!

What was it Sargon said that made Spock believe his people were Vulcans' ancestors?

This is so fucking cool!

I feel the Romulans are a big mystery because there was never any real detail information given out like the Vulcans. So if something does not make sense it's because you really don't know anything about them and if 5 different ST shows are giving 5 different interpretation how can there truly be a comprehensive understanding of fictional characters

My favourite startrek ship...the D'deridex!!!

I prefer the FASA canon in Star Trek that gives a better sense of continuity regarding warp achievements and the break away from Vulcan.

Another ship moved the BoP to the Neutral Zone for "Balance of Terror."

When I ever heard someone say Romulan technology; I think of a rant by Chief O'Brien in Season 6 of DS9 where he goes on about how the Romulans claimed to have invented every major technology from the previous 200 years first.

Nice. Very nice

Cassanova Frankenstein...... let's hear your theory about the Romulan War. Come on now. I eagerly await. :)

About the thing with the mines and that - from your point of view - concealing that it is a "bad idea" - why should it be a bad idea? Think about it: First of all you have to hide a mine somehow - otherwise they are just target practice for any ship entering or passing by. Mines are just effective by hiding them from the enemy. Second: And you do not need to be in a war - a cloaked mine field can be with or without war an effective and cheap line of defense. Even if you are not at war - if you want to keep an alliance or species from settling near your system or if you just do not have enough resources for a large scale colonization (and defense) of a system, a mine field makes sense as it is cheap and gives intruders of any kind the uncertainty of not knowing if it is save or not to go somewhere. 10 mines should be cheaper than a warbird and more effective at locally defending some place. Put two mostly passively acting communication devices on each mine (two in case one wears down over time) that only give out a signal if they receive a certain code - and you can deactivate and collect them again (for re-use). So that are my thoughts (and if I would think about it some more, I'd probably get more ideas) :-)

I certainly think the Romulans come from Vulcan, rather than the other way around, or both cultures stemming from a common third planet, but I am not aware of anything in Canon that says there was a nuclear war on Vulcan and the Romulans were the losing side, unless that was established in Enterprise, which I admit I have not watched most of, but whose Canonicity is open to question for reasons you yourself mention. Certainly there doesn't seem to be much logic in a nuclear exchange. I have my own theory of Romulan origins, based on Canon statements, and with particular reference to the episode Bread and Circuses. In that episode, when the landing party are captured and Spock's headgear is removed, the Roman expresses no surprise at his appearance. he merely exclaims, "A barbarian!" Later, when Spock and McCoy are forced to fight a gladiatorial combat, the announcer clearly describes Spock as, "The last of the barbarians." From this, and other things, I conclude that the Romulans are descendants of a group of colonists who left Vulcan about the time of Surak. Whether they were a group who disagreed with Surak's teachings, a group who left before those teachings became dominant because they thought Vulcan was going to be destroyed, or simply a lost colony is unknown. In their travels they encountered Earth, some time between the years 100 and 400 AD. They chose not to attempt to settle/conquer Earth, but they did observe and were impressed by Roman culture, particularly Stoic philosophy and and Roman Virtues. They chose to assimilate elements of Roman culture and philosophy in to their own, as a way of addressing the social problems that had existed on Vulcan, and were still causing them problems, whatever their reason was for leaving Vulcan. They took some Romans with them when they left earth. Later, they encountered planet 892-IV. Some of the Vulcans, and most or all of the humans, settled there. The Romans achieved dominance and recreated their original culture. The Vulcans were enslaved. My guess is that the major human advantage was speed of reproduction. The Vulcans, reproducing only once every seven years, even if they had multiple births, would soon have been vastly outnumbered. Yjus their advantages in strength and telepathy would have been overwhelmed. By he time the Enterprise arrived, the Vulcans had been rendered extinct. I can really see no other explanation for a complete replication of Roman culture, including Christianity, on another planet. The remaining Vulcans moved on, eventually settling on Romulus, but adapting elements of Roman culture into their own.

I play a romulan in STO the story is that the order and the counsel were destroyed in the events of nemesis. The people took back over their government and left to find planets that would allow them to rebuild and allow the unification to happen. Their enemies the tal shiar not having enough ships anymore, joined with another race to attack the romulan colonies and you are barely able to escape. Once escaped you find older ships to help you take out the stragglers of the enemies involved in the abductions and while you are investigating and helping fellow romulans escape you encounter the tal shiar remnants who are trying to destroy any chance of reunification using terror tactics. I suggest folks play STO if for nothing more than the lore factor because it continues the events after voyager and after nemesis the movie.

Bad writing in Star Trek? Never! But I do love Star Trek. It's hard to write good sci-fi.

I would not mix in Enterprise with main canon. Too many plotholes and inconsistencies. I would say Enterpise is simply a different timeline caused by either the temporal cold war, or the Borg screwing with First contact.

Romulans can't leave their own solar system without warp drive, not in a feasible manner anyway.

Why would you not cloak your mines? You want ships to hit them. The Klingons used cloaked mines against the Dominion.

Their debate team is so in this year

Good effort for this short video. But to offer honest feedback here, i gotta say - I didn't find it as engaging as your other videos. I would recommend that you may want to EXPLORE as much as you EXPLAIN, if not more, in future videos. Explanation is good for new fans, or old ones who don't as easily recall - for example - the Romulans, and their early storylines you mention in this video. But for fans who like the parts of your usual videos where you ask questions, i think you've gotta consistently give time to those segments to really deliver some substance - even if a lot that substance might still just be speculative. I really enjoy your work on this channel, so I hope that you'll see this comment for the constructive criticism it's trying to be :)

Romulans used anti matter warp cores in TOS traded with the Klingons

Where does it say the battle of Cheron was a major Romulan defeat? I hear this all the time but have never seen the source. The warp/impulse debate: Scotty says their power is impulse. The distances involved it's obvious they could reach warp speeds, every if a drop ship was used. They simply could do it using less power. There are repeated instances that show Romulans were more efficient with their power sources.

with enterprise they made the rom's more powerful then they should've been as we see them in TOS

The Romulans and Klingons are both from the beta quadrant, but they claim themselves as being of the Alpha quadrant, what's up with that. I think there is a history with the two, Klingons and Romulans that also involves the Herk. This would be before or around the time of kaless

Continuity-wise, why did the Romulans dress the same in Enterprise as they did in Nemesis?

The romulans that were at war with the Terrans only; ships had light speed ion drive and was using atomics with no prisoners on either side. The treaty used sub space radio for the boundaries and terms. Algeron is the neutral planet the earth forces and romulans exchanged the treaty at which is why we haven't developed cloaking technology but they did and didn't mention it. The enterprise tv show I considered the Jump the Shark series. Too many overlapping ideas and not in continuity of the universe. The Defient missing from tos does make sense and the empire did rule over all species and used cloaking technology which they stole. Another empire dimension had the empire capture a Romulan ship, reverse engineered the weapons at won in 3 weeks after. The romulans chose ritual suicide rather than be humiliated being subjugated by the empire and wore the Klingons down making them slaves. Read the novel "Dark Mirror".

5:00 You're wrong.

Mnhei’sahe!

The Romulans were so good in TOS, but I think they were too OP in TNG. Big warships AND cloaking devices? They were buying ships off the Klingons a few decades ago, but now they have a huge fleet of extremely advanced ships. Incidentally, I'm afraid I am one of those people who preferred the Klingons when they were the big imperialist enemy rather than the warriors with cloaking devices.

Who is this "...vulcan named Spock..."? :)

romulans are almost as fun as the kilngons

I'm inclined to agree with those that theorise that the Romluans had some form of warp drive in the early Star Trek Period, but that, Starfleet, had trouble identifying said warp drive, due to fundamental design differences, Romulans not having Dilithium catalysts for an antimatter reaction. The development of micro-singularity power generation by the time of TNG may well have been the result of a trailing in propulsion tech against the Fed and Klingons during the TOS period. As to if they had warp tech 2000 years ago, during hte exodus from Vulcan, I'm going to say yes, but only very crude, basic warpt tech, for the sake of using a figure, lets say, maybe warp one or two capable. This would explain, why romulans aren't all over the alpha and beta quadrants. It would have taken a good chunk of that time, just to reach the worlds that would become, Romulus and Remas, throw in a couple of century long stop overs in other places, perhaps worlds and systems they got forced out of (explaining the xenophobia and isolationism) and we can be more comfortable with the idea of Romulans having warp for over 2000 years, yet being only comparable to the federation, which has had warp for far less.

Cheron is share Ron.

ive often worried how some of these races can be cousins. cant remember any examples off hand, but i remember some noname race was a cousin to the ferangi, i believe they evolved in a system close by was the answer, but that is clearly BS.

Cheron is pronounced Share-on

Imo the Romulans should not have had cloaking tech in the 22nd century. In TOS the crew of the Enterprise were surprised by it. I think that was a mistake in ENT.

Ex Astris (Skē-en-tee-a) is how you would say it.

Frankly, I like the idea that the Preservers are the ancient race that, already being known for settling endangered species on other planets, settled some Vulcans on Romulus when it seemed they would destroy themselves. Just seems to make more sense not only canon-wise but logically since even Spock mentions this in the TOS episode The Paradise Syndrome. An idea later adapted and altered in the TNG episode The Chase.

Cheron is pronounced(sher ron)

Why do people insist on using the term "Canon"? If; like me, you are a foreigner it translates to Ecclesiastical Law... Horrific "Genesis" of the Roms, out right laziness--- Yes at one time they were from the same racial stock but once space exploration started and colonization they fractured taking different paths-- odd in TOS they're nearly the same, TNG they're closer to the Klingons--- Care to explain that? Sadly "Most" of Trek is based on 1960's POV and than known science.

what is the song u use in the back ground i found that instrumental on yourtube and did a free style to it

have you ever taken a vacation on betazed?

The romulans were the vulcans that didn't want too follow the teachings of Surak some 10k years ago back when all vulcans were bloodthirsty and savage.The vulcans decided the only way for there society to survive was to purge all emotion from there society and follow only logic and serinity..from the teachings of surak

You’re wrong. In the comments.

I thought romulans got warp drive from the Klingons the enterprise incident

There the same

Finding those two books will be tough since fake trek revisionist history people don't like Gene Roddenberry and his vision. Him and his wife were very adamant about it even getting booted by NBC which history proves Roddenberry right. There's a woman in Colorado Springs who hosts a podcast debating and discussing Star Trek.

Why did it take captain sisko to play a romulan move on the romulans to get tue rumulans to fight the dommion in later stages of the dommion war. Gee ex star fleet admiral layton must had been happy when sisck played section 31 to get tue romulan to fight be having garrek take out a romulan senitor and make ot look like tye carradassian or domminion did. In pale mood ds9 ep

the original show was for money and story.story keep changing so nothing fits. this turn me from all star the series is done forme the new shows for more money the strategic