Before you upgrade to higher polling rates. 

One big issue with high dpi is that many games don't let you set very low in-game sensitivity to compensate

The TLDR is: You're brushing up against diminishing returns at 1000hz. There's some benefit past there, but you probably won't notice it as a human interfacing with an input device. The other mouse features / shape / weight / feel will have substantially more impact. Thanks for the tests as always. Some of the best honestly.

Thanks for the clear explanation of polling rates and how it affects smoothness. Your explanations are always very clear and easy to understand.

absolutely love the transparency across all the tests you do on the channel, good job as always man

I really appreciate not only the level of detail you put into your videos, but also the way you explain things. It’s very easy to understand and well thought out. That and your camera work and editing is awesome.

Once again, you are the benchmark when it comes to interesting tech videos like this. Great work dude!

Great explanation of what polling rate actually means during gameplay, straight to the point. I really appreciate how in-depth you go and the graphics you use to visually understand the concepts. This type of content is very important to keep customer informed so we can make informed decisions on our purchases, instead of buying the new piece of tech just because it has a bigger number

Honestly love your videos man, the quality and atmosphere is just great.

Really thoughtful, rational and researched commentary on our gaming hobby, as always. Thanks!

The only guy to listen to when it comes to all kinds of latency tests, love you mate great video as always :)

I just want to let a comment here cause i love your work and your videos. I found them really useful and that's not the first time that i watch one of your videos to have an answer about things like the video is talking about. So big thanks ! And continue like that !

Amazing job as always. I'm completely fan of technology and I really appreciate your content. As always, amazing job, great transparency, you're putting this to the next level. Thank you !

This is the exact kind of content we all need and I really appreciate your channel for investigating things like this. I love my mouse but have kinda dipped my toes into changing for 4K hz, but now I can just be happy with my perfectly good mouse.

It might be interesting to see a test that measures whether higher polling rate lowers input latency for the beginning and end of a motion. In all practicality, I think it says enough that the polling rate being lowered due to battery level wasn’t noticeable. It would be interesting though to see if there’s a perceivable difference in slow-mo.

man you are realy taking these videos and testings to another level compared to other reviewers. keep up the good job, love your videos

Great video man. Loving the recent content. Super super excited for your upcoming vid on windows / os tweaks. Looking forward to seeing more of your content, much love

the quality of your content is from other world, no bull$#!t, great explanations, great examples, very deep tests shown very clearly, love your channel

Somehow these videos just keep getting better and better

That is such a nice video!!! Really work you input into it look good and the info are easy to grab. Respect for the work!

Brilliant work as always, but what I am most impressed by is the ingenuity. In almost every video I hear you say "So I made this"....love it. Keep the content coming!

Does this man NOT build a test setup for everything lol. SO prepared for everything! Love it! Always appreciate the ingenuity and effort put into production of these videos. Thank you!

Thank you! Perfectly aligns with every assumption I've made about increasing the polling rate beyond 1000 Hz. There's no way something that makes less than a millisecond of difference is going to impact user performance in any way at all.

Man, I was actually waiting for this video, just yesterday I was looking for a video like this because I ordered lamzu 4k and I was scouring your page for this video

Love your uploads, thank for sharing such detailed information.

finally an optimum video, love your content bro

that was a really fascinating test, I love the method you used. Definitely helped to clear up the confusion I had between the relationship between DPI, monitor refresh rate, and mouse polling rate. Keep it up!

Clear and concise. Great video! I referred back to this video when I considered getting the razer 8k dongle for my DAV3 since I’m upgrading my 165hz monitor to the xl2566k, but I don’t think I need to spend the extra $40CAD.

Crazy good video! You're bringing gaming-tech to the next level. Keep it up!

Don’t forget the CPU impact. It’s barely noticeable on a modern CPU but on an older one my 2000Hz corsair Dark Core can use up to 30% CPU usage when moving the mouse 😆

Im so grateful for this, a lot of other people have been taking about it, but its so nice to hear it from what is a bigger channel. Shape, weight, and sensor implemntation will matter more than polling rates, at least right now. And I've heard stories--granted heard--of people experincing more latency in polling rates due to increased CPU usage.

I really enjoyed this video. Your knowledge and production quality is very inspiring. GGs Optimum.

Ali, ty for your videos, you really one of the best tech bloggers on RU-vid, so interesting every time, which you good luck

You should also check click response times with 1000, 2000, and 4000hz. Any mouse > 1000hz will require USB high speed which should give up to 750us less input latency, although it may require the full 8000hz high speed offers to get that, unsure.

There is a misconception about polling rate The polling rate is not variable. The set polling rate isn't an option for the mouse, it is mandatory. The mouse is being polled at a fixed rate, hence it can not dynamically vary. The reason why mousetester reports less updates is because some polls don't have any new data to give, for two reasons: 1. The mouse sensor didn't update. Sensor framerate is variable, at low movement speeds you can easily drop below 4000 FPS 2. The sensor doesn't have new data because the DPI is too low. A movement might have been registered by the sensor itself, but not worthy of reporting as a step. So even if only every 4th packet or so might contain data that registers as an "update", this will be more consistent than 1000hz. Consider a situation, in which there is only a position update from the sensor every 1.1 milliseconds, be that because of framerate or because the dpi is low. Now you have a situation in which you have an update that mostly occurs every poll but sometimes skips one. With 4000hz, the variance shrinks, because now you are talking about either 4 or 5 polls, which is a stark reduction in overall variance. Basically: A higher polling rate gets your absolute data output closer to what the sensor outputs. This is more important than latency imo, 1ms->0.25ms is probably not noticeable at all, but inconsistent mouse movement might be. Even at 400 dpi, the data output will be technically smoother. Not a comment on noticeability, but raw data. If I have made a glaring mistake, feel free to point it out.

Love your scientific approach to these questions, building that rig with the slo-mo camera.

Love your videos, super informative, thanks and keep it up!

You are hands down the best tech reviewer/informer on youtube currently

Again, you have RIDICULOUSLY high quality videos man. You NEVER miss. Keep it up, loved the information and graphics in this video.

First of all great video, I love your testing methodology very accurate and significant results, definitely one of the best RU-vid channels about tech. And about polling I still keep my mice at 1000 don't really care to go beyond that especially if it's a wireless mouse, to me battery life has more value than 4k or 2k polling. I got the GPX2 aswell after I got a wheel button issue with my viper ultimate and I got 4 friends who had the same problem with basilisks and deathadders (weirdly happened to all of us in the last couple of months). So i ditched Razer and went for the gpx2 and all the people complain about the missing 4k polling I think it's just placebo when they read the higher number and they just feel glorious PC master race.

Was about to comment on the screen tearing in the 2000/1000Hz comparison, then I hit play again and you brought it up. 😅 Crazy how much we can't see that is obvious when looking over slo-mo footage.

I still a big believer in the feel of the mouse over everything else. I love my Xtrfy-wireless MZ1, its 1000 pulling rate. I have had 0 issue being competitive. The feel and look of the mouse is great. The only thing I wish it had that it doesn't is some kind of GUI interface that I can turn off and on but at the same time it can respect not putting more bloat software on my computer.

Hi optimum, great video as always, is there any chance you'll be doing a video on keyboard latency? Different keyboards, mechanical vs optical/analog?

this man doesn't miss good job Mr optimum always so precise and on point without a lot of filler

So glad you're back with a mouse review video. It's been a while.

Thanks for making these videos. I guess this could be the future but it really seems a bit pointless at the moment, specially considering the worse battery life and increased CPU load

Thanks for this. I have been using the razer orochi v2 since it came out and have had 0 issues.... But was getting caught up in the hype around 4k and 8k polling and thought it would be worth an upgrade. After seeing this and due to how acclimated I am to the orochi. I'm just going to stick with it until it gives out on me

Great video. Thanks for doing the work. Super helpful

Great info and content as always. Subscribed

(Commenting before watching) got an x2v2 mini with the 4khz dongle and played around with it for a bit. Tried it before being fully dialed in and didn't notice any difference while tracking at least. For very large flicks I can imagine it being a tiny bit more consistent because of the more accurate position delta. Main issue I had with 4khz is, that older source games like tf2 don't support anything above 2khz polling rate. (the cursor stutters a lot) (this part is after watching) About what I expected, I would like to see comparisons between stopping points on very large flicks, if that's at all testable, but unless there's like three pixels of difference, I would prefer a longer battery life and not having an led on the dongle :) -Note, I play on a 144hz qd-oled panel so that will obviously affect my perception compared to a ridiculously high refresh rate monitor.

One thing to mention that I have noticed when I was testing polling rates was that my fps would drop by alot (around 300 fps give or take on valorant) when swaying or just general movement with 1k polling rate on, whilst on 500hz, it was only 100 or less. I'm not sure what exactly is happening, how much it actually affects your gaming, and if something worse happens at higher polling rate. I know you probably won't feel it since anything above 240 fps just makes it a tiny bit smoother, but its still something to be a little concerned about.

great video, very deep reviews here, thanks!

Excellent video! clear, concise and aesthetically pleasing. The improvements in frame rate and polling rates for a mouse makes me think of it's future potential especially if we're talking about VR. What kinds of demands will VR gaming have in the next 5 to 10 years. Does the polling rate concept have a similar impact on VR experiences?

I went deep down that rabbit hole. Maxed out my dpi and polling rates on my viper signature edition for a while. The differences are negligible. Turns out mouse shape is king. I’ve spent a lot of money on mice to just find myself using a cheap Lamzu Atlantis and running it at 2K. Love the content.

Bought the Ninjutso Sora 4K as my first higher polling rate mouse and honestly the battery drainage is hella annoying. Have been using 4k and 2k hz and honestly I've never thought "oh wow this is a game changer". Great mouse otherwise though lol. Kinda figured higher polling rates have been a gimmick considering alot of FPS pros still use 1k hz and you know... still dominate

This was very helpful!!! I too questioned these things and by the grace of the RU-vid gods, this video comes up! What are the chances!!

Thanks for those practical tests, they were really awesome and proving the point! Would be interesting to see also white cursor on black background with 125, 250 and 500Hz. Like theoretically they are slower, but how much practically in non shooter games? Thanks for the video!

The only Tech RU-vidr I trust, never have I seen such a good competitive gamer-reviewer

As someone with a 360hz monitor who has bought a couple 4k hz mice and didn't notice a difference, this video made me feel a lot better.

Really cool and well done video bro. I really like these actual scientific testing videos of the gear we use and pay an arm and a leg for.

Great content as always brother!

The only thing it does it hertz your wallet

honestly the only thing that i wish you tested for is whether or not the higher polling rate reduces overall mouse drift

thank you for such thorough testing you do on behalf of pc gamers. you are the best

What a video, my friend. Congrats!

Another thing that I didn't hear mentioned in the video is that an increase in polling rate above 1k can heavily strain the CPU and cause noticeable frame drops.

I'd be interested in some more work being done on the high polling rate space. We reach diminishing returns past 1000 Hz, but what if we downsample from 4000 to 1000? Would the mouse input theoretically be more stable if you take an average of the 4x extra data in that 1x time? There's still a bit of potential for high polling rates past 1000 Hz at mid-high DPIs I think, personally.

Amazing attention to detail, I'm impressed! I'm very interested in your measurement setup, especially the short clip of the keyboard input delay. What electronics did you use? Did you machine parts of it yourself? It would be great to see a video of you elaborating on those.

Its not only about smoothness but the time it takes for a mouse to respond to movements from a standstill and thats where higher polling rate comes into play

Long time subscriber, rare commenter - just wanted to say great work, thank you and keep it up. The quality of the videos, experimentation, presentation of the data in this space and other items you cover in your channel provide incredible value to the community - helps us see past some of the marketing and the gimmicks companies are touting. Big Thanks!

In reality, going over 1000 Hz doesn't work well with certain games. I have the DAv3 with the 4k Hz dongle, and some games couldn't register my mouse input at 4k. You know, almost like the game engine wasn't built to get that amount of mouse data. The result was the framerate would tank and you'd have to set it back to 1k again. I'd recommend trying 2k on several different FPS's and see if the game is playable.

You answered the question that was itching my brain and saved me some money at the same time. Sticking with my Viper Ultimate CP2077 edition

I think the only time you might notice is on sharp directional changes, But the reality is that it takes a fair amount of effort for us to change the direction of our hands given the mass that’s on it . Ants with monitors the difference gets progressively smaller every time you double the refreshrate. It’s not useless, but it really doesn’t have as much of an affect us most people think

Turns out Logitech actually knew what they were doing when they stopped at 2k polling rate

Would be also cool to see if you could tell the difference in the click latency as that also changes with the higher polling rates. If anyone can figure out how to test that meaningfully it is you. Keep up the insane quality videos that we all tune in to watch!

Ali has the best graphs on youtube. its not even close. a non tech person could follow along easily

Interesting stuff and this is the man to do these tests, as he does have a lot of skill with fps gaming plus understands the mechanics of it all. My main mouse atm can do 8k polling but I only use 2k and it works just fine. It was on sale for £27 and my old mouse is awaiting new kailh switches due to double clicking, so it was an easy buy at that price. However, most people out there over estimate their skills and the need for better hardware/software with their kb and mouse. Not saying better gear doesn't help but with 90+ percent of people, it will make little difference. Their ego will drive them to purchase the stuff anyway, then call everyone else hackers when they get a thrashing...

LOL Seeing this was eye-opening And people arguing over the internet and being brand victims just really shows now. Thanks for covering this interesting topic. It really reminds me of harmony and balance of building a PC. It's the same scenario as when people will buy a beefy GPU and think they are all set. They forget that they need to upgrade other components aswell e.g. RAM, CPU, PSU etc. Otherwise it doesn't make sense. It's just so funny when people buy 4K dongles and play on a 75Hz monitor. I'll send this to everyone now who even tries to be a smart-arse on this department.

I initially took the high polling rate numbers as marketing bs, and after this video I was almost right as there doesn't seem to be much of a difference or any at all. But if I were to buy a new mouse (got g502x, mainly for productivity), I'd get the superlight 2 for a better edge on gaming

another insightful vid, thanks!

optical switches in the new logitech and razer's also are a big plus. not having to worry about double clicking on switches is a nice bonus.

Thank you for making this. This obsession over latency is damaging the mouse space. I feel like people have become more focused on trying to appreciate the companies that are doing the most "hard work", rather than trying to find mice that actually feel better in hand.

I upgraded from the Deathadder elite to the Deathadder v3 wired a few months ago thinking it would improve my gameplay even just by a little (and because I needed a new mouse), but it honestly just felt kind of the same, definitely lighter and a bit smoother and more responsive than the elite but just like mentioned in the video the difference is minuscule and you don't really notice it when playing. While the mouse is great, at least in my opinion which may be biased because I have been using Deathadder mice since I was 12 and I love the shape and the less weight, I don't think anyone should go and buy a mouse just because it has double the polling rate of their current one.

Amazing content! Straight to the point. Useful information that not many influencers provide nowadays.

My take on these marginal gains for FPS is that internet speed/server connection etc etc provide more blockers to performance and translation of input accuracy to gaming outcomes (i.e shooting/cursor accuracy) than polling rates. For example a few pixels of vertical/horizontal stutter or bounce in a gun/fps engagement in on online shooter isn't going to be the defining factor often enough when there's so many other variables - to justify getting too hung up on the difference between 1-2k polling rates and spending more money for such an option.

I have a razer viper v2 pro based on your testing. As soon as I got it, I noticed a massive difference, way more consistent and accurate

Legitimately the only youtuber I trust to know what he's talking about. you're clearly very good at whatever it is you play to be aware of all the things that you are, Thanks for all the knowledge bombs brother, Hopefully you'll help push companies to stop ignoring things that actually matter for esports

Great review! Much thanks!

My confusion related to dpi and pulling rate got celared he explains the stuff very good

I think the difference may be noticeable when you changing direction of cursor. Higher mouse refresh rate could register movement earlier. But it will affect at maximum one frame per direction change, and at 540hz it is less then 2 ms. And i think that no human can tell the difference in 2 ms.

This channel is sooo insane!!!!!

At least a very logic and honest review about "gaming!" devices. I enjoyed it a lot. I would like to see a video about high refresh rate monitors compared to our eyes and brain capability (if it makes any sense). Cheers!

very helpful. thank you for sharing your experience.

i know you say you cant feel it but i have a mouse that has 4k hz and when i first tried it, before i even considered 4k hz my tracking felt just a little more "telepathic" and when i turned off 4k to try and save the battery life i definitely felt that go away. could it be placebo? absolutely, but im usually pretty good at not being affected by placebo from the couple bad supplement purchases Ive made 😅

You can still feel differences which you can't see. The machine would remove the testing of feel.

This is so helpful, thanks a lot 🙏🙏

It depends on how fast you move. Slow movements wont be as noticeable as fast movements. There is a beat frequency effect that blur busters has found out, but in practice its hard to tell the difference. It would come down to fast flickers primarily and how accurate you can be at that speed.

r/mousereview in shambles

You should measure this with a much faster actuator since at higher mouse movement speeds there will be more of a difference

thank you so much for the info, hats off

Agree to disagree about not being able to notice the difference between 1k and 2k polling. Set a previous gen GPX at 1k polling, 1600 DPI, then the GPX2 to 2k polling 1600 DPI. Swipe around each mouse in-game. The 2k is noticeably smoother.