Beginner PIDS and Throttle Hard To Control | 1-ON-1 TROUBLESHOOT 

As a beginner, without doing anything with PIDs, and wanting to learn in acro mode an easy way to tame the throttle response without changing the characteristics of the drone is to reduce the rates, which should be done in the transmitter. On taranis go into INPUTS, select throttle input and reduce the WEIGHT setting to say 75, and then change the OFFSET to -25 (to keep throttle zero the same). This will change full stick control to only 75% of your throttle input giving you a lot more granularity across the entire range. In betaflight you could still add a little throttle expo, but not adding will keep the throttle linear. As a beginner learning to do something like hover or slow forward flight/flat turns/figure 8's you will not need all that power and will progress a lot faster. As you begin to master throttle control and need more power slowly increase it back towards 100%

Joshua....damn good video. Even though common sense shows this was pilot issue, the way you handled it, was gently professional. You sir, have some serious patients, and asked all the right questions. I learned a lot by this video.... hoping you make more like this. Thank you sir !!

OMG the innuendos are strong with this one. :D Love the series.

What a great topic for us Quadcopter newbies. Keep up the outstanding video series!!!

This really helped me out. I added throttle expo but you convinced me to remove. Good point about muscle memory. Thx.

This type of video show how genuine of a guy you are Joshua. I get where this guy is coming from. The micros can be harder to fly and figure out than say the 5" quads. I would almost say that he may be getting brown outs like not enough battery if when he is jamming throttle it is falling out of the air. Cheers

Thanks. Keep up the series. Even though super basic, I learned something.

This helped me turning throttle expo to ,2 and bringing the Roll Pitch and Yaw from 70 to 55 really helped me tame this TinyGo so I can learn a little slower and smoother. I might use this if it needed to be really smooth. I am on my first day so thanks for the help.

Please do more of this series

I like the part as 11:00 where Josh says "When I say full-throttle, I mean the left stick" and this guy just answers "Yea" and it is so clear theat he didn't get it :)

Hey thanks for all these videos. Im older and just getting into the 5 and 7 inch FPV models. I didnt have a clue about FCs or even what a PDB was.....But I found your videos and slowly buy surely getting it all together. When I have a question I find that I look for one of your videos over the rest that are out. Thanks again!

Just a thank you josh i been flying drones only 6 months and started with your videos my DDCS skills and could be more happier with my progress. started from building my own 250 before i could take off used the sim before i even had multichoppter and been troubleshooting myself like a boss in SIX months, THanks bro keep it up started right with acro too just cost alot to do so lol!!! and yes i was the idiot that crashed it into a stadium light 15 seconds after i armed it lol

I dont think hes asking for default pids i think he is asking for RATES for beginers

I believe that flying any way other than full manual does the learning pilot a disservice as it may teach habits that may not transfer well to manual mode.Teach your brain the way all the pros fly as soon as possible, that is the advice they give us.

great stuff, thrust explanation, pitch/thrust threshold :)

I like the way project mockingbird mixes the throttle with pitch & roll in the taranis. That really seems to help with the whoops and I'm considering it for my 2 inch as well.

Great video that's exactly what I needed. I'm a newbie to the 1S micro whoop world and was having a terrible time with throttle control only have millimeters of stick deflection before I hit the roof. Regrettably I have a mockingbird V2 and emote controller radio so I guess I won't be doing any rate changes wish. I could have a little bit of dead zone in yaw also.

Thanks a lot Joshua Bardwell for going so far out to help people in the community!!! This sounds a lot like an issue I have with my Eachine EX100, and I know a few people who have a similiar problem with tiny whoop style micros. After applying throttle to compensate for altitude loss after a turn/maneuver, the quad drops over the front (right in my case) leaving no chance to recover. This is happens in all modes, an makes the quad impossible to fly in acro, and very hard and annoying in angle/horizon. I haven't found a solution for this problem yet and any help would be appreciated!

I only been flying a little more then 2 yrs. since March of 2016. And since then I haven't notice that I needed to do any tuning or configuring to my HobbyKing FPV250 V2 Quad Copter ARF kit or transmitter. It wasn't til I purchased my first f36s kit ( tiny whoop variant ) that I notice my throttle control was very agressive just to try to maintain steady hover. Unless I pich my sticks very hard to keep them steady. So I think he's talking about throttle curve in the transmitter settings. It definitely help me a lot !

That just helped me a lot! 😊 Now I just need less wind. The wind have been knocking me out of the sky. 😐

Keep this going my son just got into flying drones and he's a fan

Great video.

Something I’ve learned from being an auto mechanic. Sometimes it’s easier to see what’s happening due to ‘loss of translation’. I know that’s not always an option with scenarios like this. But it’s easy to misunderstand each other, even more so when one person is new or unfamiliar with some of the terminology.

Look at your wall. "Guday, and welcome to Joshua Bardwell's tech talk, and today"!...... lol

Mine was nose diving real hard, then i realized that the transmitter wasnt calibrated properly so by just moving the pitch foward by 10% the output was 100%. So it was extremely sensitive. What Kevin Darch commented is a very good advice also.

@arran knight "His problem is simple he's flying in horizon mode most people don't notice because they don't use horizon but horizon on later versions of BF is near impossible to fly it does exactly what he's explaining in this video" ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I recently experienced this when transitioning from Angle to Acro on my 5". Tried Horizon for a bit. What is essentially happening is there is an angle threshhold in Horizon mode set in CF/BF or w/e you use. When you are under this angle the quad is in auto level mode (fighting the sticks) always trying to get back to level. When you cross the Horizon angle threshold, the quad basically enters Acro until you release the sticks, which then lets the quad revert back and try to auto level. Easily repeatable experiment: Put yor quad in Horizon and get a bit of altitude so you dont dive right into the ground. Since the ultimate goal here is linear flight based on roll or pitch input, you're not actually trying to do a flip here, so don't mess with the throttle much other than what you would normally do to stay at the same altitude. Now pitch or roll the quad quickly (basically full throw) you'll see that the quad behaves normally until a crtain angle (Horizon angle threshhold) then the quad will dip violently and possibly lose control until you release the pitch/roll input. This is because after you cross the Horizon angle threshhold you are not fighting the auto level at that point. And because you're not trying to do a flip, your throttle is still high, but the quad is also not limited by the angle mode angle anymore either, and this causes the quad to roll or pitch more than expected and possibly accellerate into the ground, or flip wildy when you release the stick and it trys to revert to the auto level part of Horizon. I hope this helps!!!!

Everyone knows Joshua Bardwell. He is the best in quads, Technically and flying as well. thank you Joshua for sharing your knowledge.

hay Josh is a 3in kwad a lil bit harder to fly relaxed and comfortabley than a 5in do u have to have more throttle controlle with the 3" than with the 5" and I love ya work keep the technical and theory vids coming

Kind of hard to watch as some one who has forgotten what itslike to start out but love how you can help those new to piloting.

Yes learn to fly before learning to tune. The best way is to get a Tiny Whoop, they are small, you can learn in your living room. Most have cameras so you can practice FPV. They come pre tuned with autoleveling and macro modes. Bow I'm learning to tune and knowing how to fly has been a huge help

Thanks, helpful.

I recommend to save different throttle expo's and mid throttle values with different profiles in betaflight. By doing so one can compensate e.g. for flying with or without an action camera! And on top of it it is wisely to adjust the battery position in your copter in such a way that when flying with or without an action camera the CG is always in the middle of your copter....

What would your advice be to someone that just started in FPV and after building their first 5” quad cannot fly due to PID settings. I wobble like crazy on roll axis and gain height with almost no throttle. FYI I’m using a Martin 2, 220 frame with a naze32 fc, Predator 12a esc, emax red bottoms 2300kv on betaflight. And default pids do not work for me

hey jashua i been trying to figure this issue I'm having it don't make sense..i hook my new build up to the motor calibration and it's all fine perfect right..but when I go out side with the quad and give a little throttle it's fine and soon as I punch it..it flips..i don't get it

Make sure you have calibrated your taranis. I had a similar issue where all movement was real "sensitive" and it turned out that I was only using 75% of the travel from center stick leaving the remaining 25% as a sort of dead area. Once I calibrated and made sure I was using 100% of the stick travel, things got less "twitchy". after that really try and dial in your rates(not PIDS). if your rates aren't dialed in good then adjusting your PIDs won't make a lot of difference. think of it like this, if you have a really nice engine in a car (your quad) you need a good alignment so it handles well (rates), then you can think about getting some nice tires to make the ride really smooth and clean (PIDs). What's the point of having good tires on a fast car that you can't steer.

Joshua, I tried the adjustments you recommended but everything stayed pretty much the same. However, I found a much more experienced pilot to try it. He had the same issue with the whoop. Anything other than very small stick moves sends the Tiny Whoop diving. He did not have time to try it in Acro mode. He, also tried my KingKong 100q and found it ok. He showed me a few of the stick movements you suggested and that helped me considerably. I'm going to try some things, in serial order, on the whoop (reload the Betaflight software back to its original state, new batteries, change out the motors, etc.). I'll let you know how that goes. Again, thanks for the help. Much appreciated. Steve

Joshua, I had the same problem that he was describing and it really was getting me frustrated. The problem was on the battery connector. The new PH2.0 is a much better connector than the old whoop connectors. the problem is that the current was not coming through fast enough to help the quad operate and as a result it just fell down within 10 to 15 seconds of flying. I can send you pictures of the whole setup if that helps your patron.

My issue going from an Eachine 013 to an Arris x80 on a QX7 is that it feels too aggressive when I move the sticks. I wish I could reduce the max pitch angle so even at full tilt its gentle. Also the throttle is the same and its easy to over do it and fly into the ceiling.

I'm getting oscillation at lower throttle stopping decent. But made a few changes at once .. added rpm filter. Set slides to 2. And made angle strength to 110. To try. Added some other things other recommended. I know dumb. Should did one at a time

hi joshua I'm very new to quads started at Christmas with a toy the jxd510g to be honest not a great starting point due to altitude hold you don't learn how to hover so I've built one which I'm having a problem with in angle mode it takes off and hovers just fine but in acro mode I gently throttle up the front lifts and try to flip backwards to the right im hoping it just needs pid tuning have you any idea's what it could be

I feel related with that Sr. I have an xjb145 and I am not often using full throttle and I try to fly more like avoiding obstacles and stuff and trying to fly slow its hard to control because either you are going up or falling. I would like to have more room to play in the low range to be able to fly slow too.

I had battery problems with my first acrowhoop v2 build. The crazepony liHv 30c 230 mAh batteries with the larger battery connector did not discharge quickly enough. I ended up using tattu lipo 45c 220 mAh with the little battery connector. The Tattu s worked much better. I was frustrated too. it was my first build ever and I was not able to control it well.

I replaced whoop FC aio .. it doesnt fit. I added filtering. But seem inconsistent with throttle and hovering. One min hover or slowly descend at a throttle percent next its going up. Too much vibration from fc being snug against the frame? Haven't tuned it yet. Default pids.. should I tune first or it just screwed because hard mounted

I reckon he's holding pitch forward like you do in angle mode, because he's used to flying angle/ horizon mode..

Thanks!

Josh, i'm wondering if he is really needing that much throttle on his brushless, if it is not more of a endpoint/min./max throttle problem.

Mr Bardwell I have come to believe that I have never really influenced my drone by tuning. I have always use a 4in1 Esc. The only problem I have with PIDs on a new build is when I used some Readytosky 30amp ESCS. I actually had to use PWM protocol in Cleanflight. In angle mode the quad oscillates on both axis unceasingly. In acro it bounces once pretty strongly (P-P=80, I=25, D=5) (R-P=80, I=20, D=7) Dterm and Yaw are as yet untuned. My first Fpv Quad was the 'Build this for $99' Posted By UA FUTURES. I never expected that all the safeguards offered by Syma would not be in place on this quad. HA HA. I appreciate all you Gentlemen lend your knowledge, but I truly wish I had happened upon a 'QUADCOPTERS FOR CRASH DUMMYS' style feed. I can now 'SAVE MY LIPO BATTERY'. 'CHARGE A DEAD CELL' and other titles. But the only thing I have not experienced is boredom. As of date, I have yet to finish fly this second quadcopter and if my Racestar 4in1 comes in before I succeed I think I will have to drop out of tuning school and just swap out the ESC. Oh, this quad falls fell out of the sky exactly as the curious gentlemen, stated in this blog until I got the pitch and Roll Ps up to 80.

I have cleanflight 2.1.0 and the default PIDs were in the range of 40 to 70 for all the axis. The quad would always flip and then I changed those values to as low as 1 or 0 and its smooth. However; I do think that there is a lot of noise on my quad and the accelerometer is damaged somehow because it always tends to move to one side when I give it throttle. It also shows on cleanflight that my quad is always rotating and tilting. What do you guys think?

Hi Joshua, Problem with my Ghost. I raise the throttle slow the quad is fine. Then I raise the throttle fast, it flips or rolls and shuts down. I have change FC, ESCs, PDBs, receivers? No matter what I do its the same. This just happened, don't know why? Can you help?

I know with myself learning the sticks were too sensitive at the centre points and I didn't have much movement on pitch roll so as I thought I was turning smooth the quad would go past a comfortable point at low speed and dip too far into the ground. I wanted more stick movement in the centre position with less movement from the quad (I think someone answered best with rates but this is my basic explanation from my learning experience (still learning)

Sir, You should get your motors check. If you're using some 1s brushed micro there's a possibility that some motor is busted. The way to check it is grab the quad firmly and securely, apply some throttle, then move the quad slowly in circling motion. making all four motors work one by one when you hit the corners. When one motor is working at full speed while trying to recover, notice the amount of wind generated. If one (or more) seems to produce less thrust than any of the other (it should be a fairly noticable difference) that motor needs to be changed/repaired.

Help.. I have a cheap setup(novice ii) and something happened to make it taz out after some minor adjustments. Trying to undo my mistake. The quad had to be factory reset. Using speedy bee and my note 9, all I have access to. Then I had to pair the cheap controller that came in the rtf pack, I'm pretty sure I did this correctly and now the throttle yaw pitch and roll are all mixed together so I don't even know if it's fixed.... No clue how to change the button bindings. ..... So lost.

I had a similar problem, turned out I needed to set my endpoints in my Tx. It had a funny under/over correction feeling in all channels.

My problem with my new quad .. is that it flies well but when ever I give throttle it oscillates alot like tiny vibrations which you can see in the dvr :( any suggestions ?

Back in your Studio. Nice! The wife let you back in? :)

my geprc gep markl 2 drone has the problem that all the controls for pitch yaw roll and throttle are mix up even the i use acro mode and mode2 maybe u could help?

great stuff. I have been on the quads for a while and trying to utilise my old style flight controllers. Currently having a massive issue tuning an atom micro for a 260 frame, can you help?

Hi Joshua, quick question. Is the Foxeer Monster better than a Runcam swift mini? or is it that one can be better in some situations than the other. Thanks

A lot of people think the tiny whoops fly nothing like a mini but I feel like it hones my skills.

I think the problem is horizon mode if he was in angle it would behave like you described but in horizon the more you move the stick it tends toward acro mode therefore with higher throttle it fly into the ground even faster i suggests acro mode from the start as you only have to learn it once cheers

Biggest issue I have in fields is establishing a mental map of where I am and gauging how much room I have to do something

Did anyone else imagine Joshua contacting random people and offering to help?

Hi Joshua, very clear explanation. I 'm a beginner too, untill now I only flew fixed wings. I also build a 260 / 6 inch quad which turned out really nice. But what I also noticed, when i'm just hovering in front of me I have to work really hard on the throttle. Also when I'm trying to make coordinated turns I notice a lot of drift sidewards. Is there anything to do in the settings to make this better. And I almost forgot, I'm also on betaflight.

joshua on thru what media can i ask you a question? because i bought your supporting Kopis 1 and if i give a full throttle for 2seconds it keeps going for allmost 3seconds, in angle it is less then in horizon. how can i fix this?

Make sure your CG of your quads with battery on. Most of the nose drop problem was caused head too hearvy.

I wonder if he's wanting to change his rates?

I fly a 68mm and a 90mm (outside of my usual 220 and 240mm) and both of them have a tendency to flop (best way to describe it) on aggressive manoeuvres, mainly sharp cornering. It may be rate related for me like someone else mentioned but the way it cuts in is very odd. I'm tempted to think it's a flight characteristic of the ducted props. I haven't had the problem indoors or flying LOS because you just can't get the kind of speed up that triggers it. I've never had them nose dive though but I only fly acro and your pitch management is different. I've found being yaw heavy and avoiding excessive pitch and roll prevents it from happening. He was saying he built the two he flies, so I'd guess he's running stock values. The biggest problem I've had with micros is under propping. Unlike the bigger quads I've found the bigger the blades and the more of them the better.

Noone ever talks about throttle expo. Personally I fly with 0.20 MID and 0.70 EXPO that gives me fine control and hover at around 50% throttle stick input. Before this, I used 0.00 MID and 0.50 EXPO for the same hover point, but was harder to land. Do you guys fly with a low throttle stick position for hover?

hi joshua im having throttle problem on my micro quad. when im flying and im about to flip ill go throttle down then do the trick but my throttle cuts if i throttle down.. what should i do in betaflight or in my tx? 

king kong 130 egg is really a nice little drone..very smooth better than a blade 110 and the gt90 king kong..

If you get to this question, I have the eachine lizard 95 and I noticed many people are lowering the p and d.. To get rid of oscillation... I only want to try one step at the time... Would you change the p or the D first? I'm new to tuning and I've watched a lot of your videos but.. Like I said I only want to make one change at the time.. The lizard has osd pid tuning so it's easier for me not being a computer guy.. I have a record of the stock pids so I can get back to the original once I start messing around...

I have a question for you Josh, after a "punch out" straight up, on the way back down when im catching the weight of the copter to stop the fall it kinda wiggles, is that a normal thing or something i can do to change that?

So what if I drop throttle to minimum and it take a second to start coming down

Great

I am a newbie and having same issue, went from camera drone to fpv.

Hey Josh, Not sure where I need to ask this, Tryed asking in the group of Facebook but didn't get a confirmed answer. I am having Mid throttle oscilations all of the sudden after changing motors and updating my Kiss firmware. Not sure exactly what causes this effect if it to high P or to low? or if its D gain possibly? I never had this issue Till now, the drone been solid. Thoughts suggestions would be helpful.

At first i could not really control my altitude..when i lowered my throttle percentage and it definitely helped.. now i am having a problem going too fast. Is there a pitch curve that i could use?

Lakeland that is like 4 hrs from me I did ALOT of work up there running trackhoes and Dozers And stuff small little town up there old school history of that town is sweet or maybe I’m thinking of plant city FL either way they are right next to eaChother I’m not that far off

I’m having the same issue this guy is in acro. Straight dive for some reason. Death roll style.

Whats Stephens contact? I think I could help him. Im guessing its the firmware at 3.1.7 is not stable for brushed copters. So I had to downgrade to 3.1.6 and works perfectly now. and yeah maybe the motors are dying also even if you see it runs but its not performing as it should..better try changing them all at once. Since we all know 19000kv generates a lot of heat and and it brushes theres technically a fair amount of wear and tear on those brushes.

stick expo in radio possibly?

he might have stability syndrome if you fly stable mode to long. when you fly acro you over pitch in forward flight cause your use to fighting machine forward and don't pitch correct in turns cause it helps you level out. he might make his I gain alittle higher to stiffen up controls if it is stability syndrome.

These trouble shoot vids are cool, sounds like it's possible he has brushed motors wearing out or some serious lipo sag... these brushed motors only last like 5-6hrs of flight time

I would have said that it was his battery connector on his tiny whoop but it's happening on his wizard too so it might be the pilot

emax hawk pro throttle just jumps to max for no reason, escs and xmitter fine. PID's. it idles than as soon as i apply throttle ... 100% very scary stuff

coach bardwell! what happened to your mixed booze drinks!? i want a bardwell mixed drink tutorial...

josh i just realized there is an actor that played on stargate sg1 named marty that could be your twin brother,not ment to be ofensive

hes flying in angle mode. it wont let you pitch all the way and limits you, seems like he is getting limited by angle mode not letting him use full potential. or maybe hes using horizon mode and it makes him flip. my issue is shaky fingers and i cant keep throttle stable like it bounces too much. i wanted to mess with throttle expo cause i only have one drone, well waiting for new one (beta85x fpv version cause my sailfly went for a swim in a river and got annoyed at a brushed 65s lite) and i font really have good throttle control, i bounce up and down a lot. my first issue was i had my yaw rates the same as everything and im no good at using a lot of left stick for yaw without messing up the throttle. i also had issues with low responsiveness on default rates so i bumped it to 1000 and set a giid curve, that helped. i like really responsivenes things. the thing that gets me is for some reson my hands shake and its not cause of nervousness, they just do that, its not a lot but noticeable when i put pressure on my thumbs, and ya i cant do the pinch controls, it just doesn't work for me, i have no control trying to fly like that. so idk im afraid that ive got some condition that makes it really hard for me but maybe i just need to practice and set it up better.

It sounds like he is just dealing with under-powered brushed motors. That is my complaint when I tried to fly a tiny whoop. Anytime I pitch forward, I drop in altitude

i feel like i have the worst luck with this hobby. got some 35A blheli32 esc to my f4 pro omnibus and i get motors spinning when plugging in battery with radio off :( . thing is killing me

acro mode in fpv is amazing don't have to fight fc for turns and such

Tiny Whoops do that, they don't have the power to catch themselves. His rates are probably to high also.

His problem is simple he's flying in horizon mode most people don't notice because they don't use horizon but horizon on later versions of BF is near impossible to fly it does exactly what he's explaining in this video

if hes in angle and he pitches forward, sure thing he dives down

id like a quick lesson. not sure how id come over for a 1 on 1 lol

I have a 6 inch and I'm having trouble with it, whenever I give it a quick throttle response it yaws to the right and rolls and pitches to the left. I have calibrated the escs correctly and tried adding I to stop it but it didn't work. I added tpa, it didn't work. Please help me.

I have a problem that is driving me nuts!!! (beecore v2 brushed, betaflight 3.2) it will take off and hover great for a short time. then it will twitch to the right in the yaw! its only yaw! that does this. keep running it and the problem gets worse. correct the yaw with the stick and it will do good for a bit then yaw to the right again. all other axes work great. kinda makes me thank its a motor, what yall thank?

Great series Josh, I think it would be great for you to continue this in the future. My 2 cents on the only thing I can comment on being a novice.... Imho the Real Flight sim isn't that good for FPV (or fixed wing for that matter, if you are trying to practice aerobatics/spins). My brother just got the latest version and I went to try it out based on the Sims that I currently have (Freerider, Liftoff and Velocidrone) and it is so bad it's almost unusable. The Physics are just plain poor. 'Bout the only good it would do for you would be stick practice. Its more an arcade style program than a Simulator. If you have a controller already, I would go for one of the other programs that I listed, it's cheaper than Real Flight and you get the benefit of having your own controller in your hands that you will fly with in real life, as well as having a more accurate flight model when using a quad. But of course this is only my opinion. Once again, Thanks Josh for posting. Keep up the great work!

Sounds like throttle stick needs calibrating or travel adjustments

Vote here for default PIDs. I've just finished my first self-build, have no idea about PID tuning, so left at defaults, which in Angle are excellent, never had a quad so stable. In rate mode (which I am crap at), it's almost over-responsive for me, but not in a weird way. I take that as a benchmark for where my skills are and a target level for improvement