Doesn't change my opinion of the synth overall. I ordered one based on the demos I heard and it sounds vintage to my ears at a very affordable price. It will slot in nicely amongst my analogue synths 😃
Being "upset" at someone pointing out the envelopes are slow is senseless but understandable - folks tend to have a certain emotional connection to their synths and pointing out any shortcoming (all designs have some) can feel personal at times. Anyone buying this synth (or a Prophet 600) and expecting snappy envelopes has failed to fully inform themselves on the nature of the product. Being able to invert the envelope on the 800 is one of the great small changes and goes a long way to addressing this IMHO.
The Prophet synths aren't really renowned for their fast, snappy envelopes anyway, are they? That said, the JUNO-6 he shows as an example for faster envelopes isn't really renowned to have fast envelopes either... if you want fast envelopes, check the Minimoog for example (or the Behringer Model D). Fast as lightning.
@@chakko007 Not really a "Prophet" synth, but Pro One was SNAPPY. The good part about the modulation being digital is they can fix this - and I hope they do, but not too upset if not since I have stuff that is already.
Your are confusión,dont make a kick or percusión sound?another synth subsequent o4 eurorack modules of snares kikcs etc etc,no hablo ingles cualquier sinte tiene su carácter no mola a por otro a mí me flipa en seis días me llegan no existe ni en vst por supuesto ni en muchos de las bestias de 4000 pavos esos acordes que se nota ya lo que vale encima puedes experimentar,osea es versátil,saludos
Thanks for the shout out mate! Great Video again. To be fair, comparing it to a Juno-6 is like comparing a VW Beetle to a Golf GTI (to stay in the 80s) - the Juno-6's Envelopes are just amongst the fastest you will find on Polysynths and also the modulation depth (in contrary to the Pro-800, but also to the Jupiter-8) goes much higher. On the Pro-800 it's like half of the amount. But hey: True to the original! Keep up the good work!
Yeah! Thanks! There where some people doubting that the envelopes are as slow as we said! So: Quod erat demonstrandum! And even the JX is clicking like a sewing machine! 😁
Interesting. Thanks for the comparison. Okay, the Pro800 can't to percussive sounds. But the sounds you're creating here, going from fast to slow decay, I actually prefer the Pro800 😅. Sounds coming in very smooth. Reminds me of the sound of a song - can't recall which one, I guess sth from Zero7. Anyways I ordered a Pro800 and hope it'll arrive soon. For me it's perfect for thick pad sounds (with those very very slightly detuned osc). For attacky sounds I have my good old digital Nord Wave, for a good lpf i have my Moog Sub Phatty and for deep musical expression and new sounds I have my Expressive E Osmose. I like instruments that can't do everything. I like instruments that aren't too versatile. Makes me musically more creative.
I don't get why on a poly synth "fast" envelopes are even important. You use them for brass, pads, strings, choir. No fast envelopes needed, in opposite you might need long increase and decrease. For typical melodic synth bass which you would play on keys, even the JX-8 P envelopes are sufficient. Maybe not for sequencer lines and Arpeggios. This is what polyphonic synths are actually not made for. You'd use the Pro 1 instead.
I agree , I have other synth with fast env and fast env (for my use) is not required for a poly that im going to use mostly for pad, brass and strings. The good news, so many mono analog with very snappy envs :)
@@stergiost.6246 But for Stabs you don't need fast envelopes. You use Gate for the VCA. The'fast' is about the decay rather than the attack I think. So for Arp it might matter. But that again is mostly used for monophonic tones. How often do you arpeggiate chords? I can do that on the Poly D but that's pretty rare.
Once again, a thorough, even scientific review. What is that device, mein Herr? I have a paperback copy of David Abernathy's The Prophet of Silicon Valley - the complete story of Sequential Circuits (2015) and it is clear on the point that the Prophet-600 was designed as a budget synth and, therefore, not nearly as great as the Prophet-5. That's fine, but it's still gold to most of us who simply have wanted to own an affordable analog polyphonic, often for decades. From page 224: -The LFO, glide and envelope control voltages are created within the O/S software and are reproduced via an eight-bit DAC. The result is that the envelope attacks are not as snappy as the Prophet-5's analog envelope control. So there it is, a good catch! I think they chose this synth carefully and chose a winner that could be manufactured about as cheaply as you could with an analog clone. The Prophet-5 had noise, the original PRO-600 didn't, but we get it with one of the Gligli upgrades. I don't have this synth yet, but I have been put on a waiting-list at Sweetwater and am excited! No, it's not so great as the Prophet-5, but at this price point, and going from the demos online here and elsewhere, the sound is very sweet to these ears, this is the real deal that is likely to become a legendary entry level analog poly for so many young people, as well as the rest of us older people who've been waiting patiently! The PRO-800 will almost certainly be one of the most important synths that Behringer ever adapts for the present. PS: I can vouch on the Juno's envelopes, they were/are pretty fast.
The Behringer Pro one had slow envelopes when it came out,thanks to a software update they fixed this,but the original had snappy ones,this one never had.
Pro-800 vs DM12 sound comparison, please! Similar features of course. In my ears Pro-800 sounds better (for me!) but I can be wrong. Would be cool if you can compare them.
Deepmind12 is a BEAST of a synth ! I noticed Noel Gallaghers High Flying Birds are using Deepminds ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-awQYXYn1kWQ.html
The question is only how it sounds. What uses in our music, how this complete our studio set, and if we have money to put in this instrument or another. Pleased to listen the Juno 6 as you know I have one, and it has the better clic of the world! Just push the button S and the sound rise🤗
The Prophet 600 had slow envelopes so this isn't a surprise. Also, you're paying $399 for 8 real analog voices that actually sound good. That's less than the tax on a new Prophet 10, so what is there to complain about? Sounds like Behringer is going to add the option for snappier envelopes in a firmware update.
Glad I watched until the end - why don't you recommend this as a first synth? The ASM one uses tiny keys, I have giant hands, rule out. What does the Deep Mind do that this one does not? Interesting video. I bought P10 module, 10x the price of this, the P5/10 clone may be years away. Thank you!
The Deepmind does a ton that this one does not (more voices, envelopes, modulation possibilities, comes with an UI editor, highpass filter, effect section, display, ...) and imho it sounds better. But the Pro-800 is a nice machine, doesn't take up much space, and the price is unbeatable. But still, my first analog poly was the Deepmind, and I'm glad it was.
I returned the P10 module and got the Pro-800. It's been a nightmare finding a decent keyboard to use it with, but I just scored a mint Novation SLMK2 (not 3) 61 key (I'm a pianist, need good keys). I still might get the Deepmind.@@Sycokay
I was often facing hanging notes in the stock firmware which after which the pro 800 was unresponsive (only reverting to factory settings resolved it) After upgrading to 1.2.0. i haven't had this issue as of yet!
The original Prophet 600 also had slow envelopes so what is the complaint? They re-created it as the original Prophet 600 was = slow envelopes. Simple as that.
Basically, it is what I say in my video! I and why I can't recommend this synthesizer to newbies who are looking for a more versatile analogue instrument. Already in the 80ies, the Prophet 600 was a lame synth, what I widely described in my first review video. Sometimes it helps to watch videos til the end! 🖖
@@winesynths I just don't really understand the purpose of your video as the fact is that they recreate exact copies of synths. So lame synth or not in your opinion. The synth is exactly as it's surposed to be and many seem to like it.
In general: Slow envelopes like this on a new Synthesizer feel like buying a new bike with flat tires! It‘s a matter of quality, not of taste! It cuts down 90 % of the sonic capabilities of this synth! But Behringer already announced in public, that they will change it. So it seems that I and my fellow RU-vidrs like Tom Noise are not totally wrong.
@@winesynthsit was because of Behringer's acknowledgement and a willingness to improve the envelopes that I placed my order. This could yet be a real Prophet! 😂
Get a decent controller for your MW instead! I had a MW 1 too and to me it’s only flaw was the terrible UI. Otherwise it still sounds great and is a classic! 🤖
Again thanks for the diving into the Pro-800 envelopes! 🤿✉ I do not really believe that there is any strategic or tactical reasoning behind it, e.g. the suspicion that flaws are left/designed on purpose so that other products are better by comparison. More likely: the GliGli mod runs on a 2KHz oscillator update (--> that is the shortest change you can get in any time dependent movement) and Behringer just copied that. Note that the original P600 with its dinosaur CPU runs at very low update frequency. I haven't switched back recently, but I am sure that the envelopes are even more inert on the original P600. Improvement? Depends on your point of view. I was never bothered by the envelopes on the short end. If I want clicks, I go to the Jupiter 4. However, still waiting for that delivery from Thomann...
The original OS for the P600 has considerably slower envelopes than the GliGli version. The GliGli version is as fast as the hardware limit for the multiplexers that the P600 uses can reliably go. There have been tests to increase the speed, but the hardware is the limitation. I know first hand, I did the coding for the most of the versions above 2.2.
I think it's a kind of a sentiment for all who did used to play on Pro-600 and now they can buy it's better version but having the same general character. For me it's not a sentiment because I've didn't had a chance to buy or even touch Pro-600 :)
@@winesynths I'd also like to add that imogen did a killer job of his coding on his version of the P600's current OS. His envelope shapes are very musical.
I’m always a little mystified by the whole concept of snappy envelopes and now I’m even more mystified. All I heard was a clicky arp, which TBH gets annoying after about a minute. Is this some kind of treasured EDM sound or something? But I was curious to see how the click patch sounded on my Polybrute. Even snappier, which I suppose you would consider a good thing, but I’m struggling to find a use case other than mimicking the click you get with an organ percussion. Do the clicks help get northern Europeans moving on the dancefloor? Maybe there is some kind of ancestral DNA memory of clicking shoes in traditional folk dancing? ;)
The Polybrut indeed has nice and snappy envelopes! I can confirm! So you are safe! And it‘s not about the click itself. Envelopes shape the sound. It‘s one of the most important components of a synth. And you want them to be as flexible as possible. Take electronic drum sounds as an example. With the Pro-800 it‘s nearly impossible to make percussive sounds. Maybe I should think about a general sound design video to complete this series! 🤖
Had a noodle on one yesterday and it seems like the 'Envelope Amount' has a very non-linear curve mapped (almost like the 'biological growth' curve) and it never goes to 100% on either axis. Your demo sounds like the Pro-1 if the filter attack is slightly offset from zero. Wondering if using CC's on the 800 will allow you to go beyond the dial calibration.
I did not try Midi control yet! Because the lack of a Local-Off parameter makes the programming a bit fatiguing! I am dreaming of a nice macro for Ableton! 🤖😴
V1.2 fixes midi messages from old Roland and Yamaha synths like D50 and Alpha Juno 2. There will be a new firmware update soon with a new super fast snappy envelope setting in a similar way to the Pro 1. A local off and midi soft thru mode will also be added.
Thanks for this information! I think, there is still a lot of room for detail improvement! Compared to the Midi desaster on the Super6 when it came out, the Pro-800 already runs really smooth! And Behringer then has us RU-vidrs for gratis Beta testing! 😁
1:04 : Is the preset editor Mac only? I am not seeing it on Windows with Synthtribe 2.6.1. Btw, the envelopes have been improved significantly with fw 1.2.6
I only have Mac in my studio. So I can't try it with windows. Sorry. Here is a new video about the improved envelopes: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-1zMw7vA95hc.html
@@commutercommuter yeah! I still follow the story with a fellow youtuber and in the Behringer FB. They are really doing well! I am impatient to see what comes next! 😁
This video should probably be taken down as it does not reflect the current state of this synthesizer which was updated to have much snappier envelopes
I have enough snappy synths! Thanks! 🤖 I just wanted to warn the people not to be too optimistic about this one as an allround Polysynth! For pads and other mellow sounds its quite ok! Filters are also nice.
@@winesynths sorry, my comment wasn't meant as a criticism of you or your video! You do very detailed and interesting videos! I think my meaning was that if you want a cat as a pet and then get a dog and are disappointed that it's not a cat then it's not the fault of the dog, if you see what I mean.
@@winesynths As I understand the “super snappy envelopes” are to be expected in their next update along with a few bug fixes -such as this one. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-62TVR2Omf0k.html
Ach my Darling! Dann guck doch einen von den ach so zahlreichen Deutschen Kartoffel-Kanälen mit ähnlichem Qualitätskontent! Viel Erfolg! 🍀 Ich kann hier auf die winzige Deutsche Sprachlehrer-Meckerminderheit leider keine Rücksicht nehmen. Sorry! Der Rest der Welt freut sich entsprechend zu rund 95 % über meine Videos! 🤖🤓