Ben Hogan vs. Tiger Woods - Swing Analysis - Part 2 

Hey Wayne, great analysis of my two favorite players. It gets annoying when the announcers try and break down Tigers swing. That's why they are announcers and not playing on tour. I've been taking lessons at my local Golftec center and my instructor agrees with you about using the ground and it's natural to drop down, as long as you don't drop too much. I hit the ball so solid when my head goes down rather than my head stays at the same height. I hit the ball thin and high and weak when I don't compress down. Well done sir!!

Fascinating analysis of arguably the two greatest ball strikers ever in golf, I totally agree now Tigers swing is more Hoganesque and he favours a left to right shape with the driver it has given him way more consistency

Hello Wayne, I am a looooooong time student of the game and was awarded my PGA card in 1994. My Father Mike Bencriscutto who was inducted into the WPGA Hall of Fame taught me a lot before his passing in 90. It is difficult to find someone who actually has 'studied' and learned what the best ball strikers did/do. I'm amazed at times what I hear from the announcers as well. Would like to sit down with you sometime and discuss, as there simply aren't many on the same page. I've got a few things that I have not heard you discuss, and would like your opinion as I am about 1/3 of the way writing with a book on many of the things we both agree on.

I remember Jack being interviewed about Tiger when he was winning everything and Jack was heaping nothing but high praise on Tiger and then the interviewer said "Is Tiger the best ball striker you have ever seen?", and it was as if the interviewer asked Jack "Does the sun rise in the West?"...Jack didn't even take a breath and immediately replied "Oh no that was Ben Hogan for sure".

This is the *best* assessment & review of Hogan I believe I’ve seen. One thing worth noting: here: Again, it might be splitting hairs, but I learned this swing in the 1970’s. My instructor was Eddie Montgomery, at Hickory Hills CC in Springfield, Mo. (Payne Stewart was a Junior member there at the time). In the context of the “sensation” on the downswing this really only works IF the left hip is pulling the the right side around. In your discussion you talked about the right side “pushing” but if you do the fulcrum leverage is broken. And this...is why these knuckleheads talk about the club getting stuck but that’s ONLY when they break the chain. As soon as you start to create pressure with the right side and hand then you’ve destroyed the whole process. For support, I believe it’s on page 24 of 5 Fundamentals, Hogan, and he spent 19 pages discussing how to “place the hands on the club” discusses the pincher fingers of the right hand & ho says those active muscles in the right forearm have no use in the golf swing. It’s a very challenging swing and the muscles have to be retrained but the rewards are extraordinary, resulting in ball striking that creates a feel most never enjoy. I still practice today with just my middle and ring finger holding the club swinging short irons. The context of the “3 right hands” is so misunderstood that sometimes I wonder whether he said that as to mean “I wish I had 3 right hands” to delay the release, which occurs naturally OR his decoy, since he was very guarded. The sensation that the clubhead will be late forces most of us to throw that right hand believing we have to but the club actually arrives on time. And again, I think this is why Tiger couldn’t execute that swing effectively because he tried to release it rather than allowing centrifugal force to deliver the club face. It feels like it’s not going to get there, but just keep pulling to the left, keeping that left hip and shoulder in sync (and definitely not connected #FFS where do these ppl come up with this “exit left” lashing and such? What a waste of valuable time. Voodoo golf talk. And they’re tearing up out practice tee digging ruts with their trenches. They think they’re swinging like Ben Hogan, lolz. Worse yet, imagine paying someone to teach you that abhorrent looking mess.) Really love this work you’ve done here. Count me in as a huge fan. Merry Christmas, it’s Christmas Day & we’re still talking about Hogan. All the best!

Before the video analysis revolution many instructors would teach by feel. I've heard Johnny Miller talk about a player keeping the face of the club moving down the target line for a long time, but the actual video shows the player moving the face to the left almost immediately after impact. In the case of this video they are talking about Tiger's lowering because it contradicts the feel of a level head throughout the swing.. If they would come out and say you should feel that the head doesn't move throughout the swing rather than as a statement of fact, then that would be better. It hurts people in their golf development because they try to do what the announcers are saying, but what the announcers are saying is not what actually happens. By the way, Nick Faldo talks a lot without saying much. Sometimes, I think it is his English accent that got him the job rather than any technical knowledge he brings to the table. Thanks for the videos Wayne.

You're in a class by yourself. Thanks

For purposes of instruction, it would be helpful not only to observe that these 2 lowered their heads, but to explain how anatomically speaking they did it and in what sequence relative to other parts of the swing. Anyone can stand over a ball and jut their butt back and lower their head (and hit is 50 feet, and crooked).

Very informative video...many thanks...I'll certainly take that information into my swing thoughts.

What do you think? It looks to me that both Tiger and Hogan move their clubs above, yet parallel to the original shaft plane angle as they reach the tops of their back swings. Their right elbows, however, ride directly along the shaft plane at the same time. Maybe the squatting of their bodies on the down swing is necessary to return the shafts to the original shaft plane as set at address? Maybe this also explains why their hands occupy the same "space" at impact as they did at address. Just an observation. Not sure if it's correct though.

@wdefrancesco Bradley Huges says that Foley is ruining Tigers swing with his ideas. You state that Hogan's low and left move is a "slide cut", Huges says that is really a body release. Hogan like many of the vintage golf swings were more flat on the downswing and rotational on the followthrough. Hogan's hands always disappeared quickly after impact no matter if he was drawing or fading the ball. I challenge anyone to find a video he doesn't do that.

Great work, sir. It might seem like splitting hairs but I *believe* almost certainly that Hogan’s left knee doesn’t straighten until the golf ball is gone & until the momentum of the swing is eventually finished. As much as it seems insignificant it’s pretty important in my view. I believe that the *straightening* is what caused Tiger’s blocks and pushes, & occasionall snap hooks because he was still, though not to the extreme degree as before, posting up. He just couldn’t let the momentum of that clubhead he’d built release on its own, he had to *STOP* and thinking he was going to get the better strike, deliberately release the right hand. He did a great job of mimicking the style but he’s always going to be a right side player. It’s worked for him, he’s the best ever, but he’s not Hogan as a pure ball striking machine.

Interesting that you comment that this film was taken with a camera on a tripod yet there is certainly evidence that this camera moved during the clip. While the movement is small and appears (qualitatively) to be mostly in the horizontal direction, it will influence your interpretation of the movements sideways during the swing.

@wdefrancesco It was in fact a draw. The extended footage of the swing you analysed is on youtube and the ball is clearly drawing. Hogan worked it both ways on the course although his go to shot was a fade. Otherwise a great analysis though!

Enjoyed your video learned lots thanks

Wayne, your info is great! But to me it looks like Hogan started the ball out to the right and it was starting to draw, you said he likes to cut the ball, do you think he was hitting a draw on this swing ?

i hate it when you keep hearing new school teaching dissing old school, keep your head down WORKS! keep your head still WORKS! don't take your eye off the ball WORKS! raising your left foot stops you getting a bad back and prolongs careers, at one time these were the teachings and all bit by bit are being proven,

FYI: it looks like Hogan was actually hitting a slight draw in the RU-vid footage used here.... cut and paste v=XNgMNK3CtWU (17 secs in) I'm really starting to wonder if Hogan didn't really go to the cut until after the accident...? The swing linked to below looks to be a draw also (3 wood?) - but then again, the ball might be slightly above his feet (?) v=XNgMNK3CtWU (1 min 4 secs in)

Tiger’s left arm at top of swing looks strange it is rolled over but is very high, especially the upper part of Tiger’s left arm is strangely high in comparison to his armpit and the reason it looks strange because usually some one who rolls hands(he does it late in backswing) has lower hands but Tiger does not lift arms weird.

can you do a vid of tiger's swing a while back compared to now? everyone comments on it these days but not to the detail you do on swings. boy, i'd like to swing a club as ''badly'' as him! angel cabrera could make an interesting subject as well. anyway nice vids wayne, keep 'em coming.

But Miller’s hands are not nearly as trapped behind as Tiger’s which makes all the difference. But Tiger’s swing is different during actual rounds than practice rounds and the range, Tiger stripes it at the range even when he wasn’t playing well.

No, I was talking about De Francesco.

I should send you a video of my swing so you can show people what NOT to do. I'm actually curious to go video some of my swings to see how much I compress my head. It's one technicality I've never cared to study. Not sure I'd fix anything by focusing on head movements. Get too technical and I stop thinking about golfing and focus on crap that takes the fun out of it.

i read that tigers dad taught him as a kid the hogan method of golf , he believed it was structurally more sound and proven

Right. Tiger can't hit a fairway to save him life. Hogan never missed one. Tiger is Tom Watson with todays golf balls and golf clubs that add 50+ yards. Watson was great out of trouble and a clutch putter. Tiger is great of out of trouble and a clutch putter. Both were just great recoving for bad shots. Same golfer other than Tiger gets the edge of 2 strokes a around because of the equipment reducing the golf course to nothing.

Too bad Tiger changed instructors. I think he was on the right track with Haney. All he needed to change was a steeper shoulder turn, to stop lifting the arms on the backswing and getting the hips and shoulders much more open at impact so that he could release hard to the left and more around his body. Then his swing would have been exactly like Hogan´s.

太精采了

I think u over exaggerated the announcers. The tour has always been full of guys doing it all different kinds of ways. Just like at your local club where there is one 'hack' who scores the best. All this nonsense makes amateurs worse not better

Hey clint: thanks for clearing that up.