Head over to ring.com/Ben to take advantage of exclusive offers and discounts on smart home security! Ben Shapiro reviews Denis Villeneuve's “Dune.” #BenShapiro #Dune #BenShapiroReviews #DailyWire #MovieReview
@@tayzk5929 I know, people are divided some prefer 1980s Dune some prefer Dune 2021. Both are quite different, one is more Gothic/Victorian in art design and tone. The other is a visual masterpiece achieving an amazing universe.(it should only be viewed in theaters) TV viewing greatly reduces it's impact.
Mannnnnn y’all don’t even get it😂😂😂 So it’s my fault but I’ve never read or seen a single thing of the story of Dune and this was my intro. It was so damned good I’m actually mad I saw it because now I have to wait another two years for part two and I can’t get it out my head😂
@@stephenpmurphy591 Watching it 21:9 at 1440p 120hz 34 inch screen was decent for me tbh. I think if you watch it at the right aspect ratio its still fine. You will still get the best experience at a cinema though.
The movie was cut off because the director wanted to do the whole movie, but they didn’t think it would succeed so they wouldn’t give them the funds. He said, essentially, “Screw it, I’m making part one and you’re going to see just how good this will be.” And so he did. The movie then went on to be so good that it made enough to green light Part 2 THE NEXT DAY
The movie was cut off because no one is going to see a 5-6 hour movie, you see how much was in the first part that's only what didn't get cut. Its like Tarintino making Kill Bill, the movie has too much to fit into a single part so they split it up
Actually from what I heard, he only agreed to do if he is able to make it into two parts. They were fine with that, but only if the first one is successful
I genuinely don't understand how people miss the point of the ending. It isn't in the wrong place, it's in the perfect place. The fight with Jamis was the 'death' of Paul Atraides and the rise of Usul/Muad'dib. This is specifically the moment the entire film had led to since the Chani narration at the start. It's precisely the pivotal moment that the entire story hinges on.
@Dan I don't agree. I haven't read the book (yet) but I understood it was a good breaking point. The entire movie focused on the development of Paul's character, from a boy who didn't even understand the weight of Atreides family taking control of Arrakis, to a man who willingly follows his path to the dessert knowing entirely what that entails (the crusade on his name he saw on his visions).
If a majority of the viewers think it's in the wrong place, it's in the wrong place. The objective quality of a piece of creative entertainment is the opinion of the audience.
@@apollo1694 Yeah, I can't agree, sorry dude. He's not saying it's wrong because of audience reactions. He specifically refers to it being 'in the middle of a story beat' (which it isn't). Besides, do the majority of viewers think that? I haven't seen any stats, have you? Further, audience approval isn't the only measure of whether it's in the 'wrong' place or not. Given that you've pointed to a subjectively assigned measure for 'wrongness' in a film, you shouldn't be calling it objective, especially when basing it solely on the collective subjective opinions of viewers. Mr Shapiro would very much disagree with that analysis (or else conclude that a screeching Twitter hate mob must be right due to the numbers). I get the caveat to this you're suggesting for creative work, but this isn't usually the measure even there. Awards for creativity rarely go to the most popular. You're conflating creative with commercial. If audiences were staying away due to this issue, you might have a point, but they're not. The abrupt ending has been noted by reviewers since the debut, but the film is still doing very well with audiences, critically and commercially. In terms of judging the quality of the story, there are plenty of measures. Story pacing, plot resolution, etc.There are plenty ways to judge an ending, and I'm pretty sure it's on these standards that he's judging it to be 'wrong'.
Actually I liked where they cut the movie, you’re right when you say it’s about 15 minutes to long, but that was a good way to end this half because it’s starting to show how Paul’s dreams are coming true in different ways and how his story is just beginning… I think it would’ve been bad to end it on “oh no, house atrades is gone, that sucks…” we need a glimpse of the next stage before it ended. Pls read this, Ben. Thank you
The key thing that's important about the finale is that it reveals that Paul can change the future based on what he sees. So I think it ended in the perfect spot. That's new information that will surely be used in part two.
@@Contra7311 That and it was the most sensical place to pause between the two films. At one point they were going to stop it after the time jump but it felt like they were starting to open the second part of the story with no follow up, just didn't fit.
The central message of the Dune saga is "Be careful who you follow". That applies to religious figures, politicians, famous people/royalty, etc. They all have their own agenda. It's as important a message today as it was when he wrote the books decades ago.
Wow that's an extremely cogent distillation of what Herbert is saying. With overtones of that same warning regardless of which "side" has the more sympathetic cause...
@@bobbarkerswag6989 It's a 6 book series. You are only seeing, right now, half of the first book. After you watch Part 2 when it comes out, read the first 10 pages of the 2nd Dune book. You'll see.
This felt like the Lord of the Rings to me, in that, the movie has captured the feel of the world the author created. That is what makes a successful book to movie adaptation for me.
@@svenjorgensonjorgenson709 / I think the word you’re looking for is “ponderous.” The director does have a penchant for that kind of thing, I’ll give you that.
@@svenjorgensonjorgenson709 Dr.yueh has heavy conditioning, basically the most trust worthy person to the Duke. It's not explained in the movie because it's impossible to cram it in a 2h30 film. As you saw, he took the guards by surprise and was able to disable the shields. You missed that part. They literally got attacked the night of the day they arrived, the whole thing had been planned for months. Ofc they deserved to get slaughtered, that's the point. How do you control bio warfare? Their plan, in theory, was to let some specific people live. You can make the same argument about any movie...you can get gassed in any world lol. How else would you fight?? In slow motion? Lmao. You saw that Duncan fought fast to get close then finished them with slow strokes. Literally how else would you fight?? The shields are designed to counter fast projectiles so melee combat is the only option... All of your plot holes are the same in the book. Your random nitpicky problems of this fantasy world are not exclusive to the movie...
@@svenjorgensonjorgenson709 I don't undersand why you're doubling down on the gas thing. Your point is that the writer of the book should've found a way to weaponize gas in a different way instead of using swords? Sure I guess? Again this has nothing to do with the movie itself. Go shit on Frank Herbert then. Idk why you're comparing this to the president and the US? The Atreides are dropped in a foreign planet, with sabotaged tech, in a trap designed by the empire itself. How could anyone else know when Yueh drops the shields? He kills the only guards defending it & THERE ARE NO COMPUTERS IN THIS WORLD. But somehow it's the same as the president being in his home country, surrounded by computers & digital security? The comparison doesn't work at all. First I prove that your points about shields & fighting systems wrong. Then you proceed to double down on the bio warfare argument? Go ahead and try to cram extended explanations about shields, how poisonous gas works, the political systems of this world, etc., in a feature length film, instead of focusing on the main plotline. Do you realise how insanely nitpicky you sound about things that don't really matter in the grand scheme of the story? The director managed to showcase what Dune is about without compromising on spectacle. Which is impressive. "Timothee Chalamet walking pensively through the sand" is the whole point of the book. Why would the director spend time on weird details that no one else but you would have a problem with, instead of capturing the essence/mood of Dune in movie format. For some reason you seem to be forgetting that this is not a 10part 1hour per episode HBO season. And even in that case explanations about shields, security systems and bio-warfare would've been completely redundant. (Let me say this again: There are no computers in this world.) I feel like am the one repeating myself: you have highly nitpicky issues with the book itself. Nothing wrong with not liking the movie, it's understandable. Characters might seem bland and under developed. But your "plot holes" aren't actually plot holes...
@@svenjorgensonjorgenson709 You sound insanely boring. Those things you call plot holes are just personal gripes you have with the movie they mean nothing. It is a deep and complex story the fact you chose to focus negatively on those things clearly just shows you were too braindead to pay attention to the rest.
The break occurs once Paul makes an irreversible choice about who he chooses to be, by killing for the first time. If the break happened sooner it might be better in terms of tension and leaving on a cliffhanger, but it wouldn't leave the character changed as much, which would have been worse in my opinion.
I agree. When I read critiques saying the story was boring, that it didn't have a closure, a climax, or real conflict, I feel like they were just expecting a final boss epic battle at the end or something. When in reality, the story in the movie does have that, but expressed in a subtle and progressive change in attitude in Paul. I mean, at the most dramatic point in the movie (imo) we do see Paul suffering and reluctant to accept his fate, reluctant to lead a war across the universe like he saw on his visions. Yet the movie ends with him accepting that, the closure to his character comes from the decision he takes to be the leader, to rise to the occasion. I think that is perfectly fantastic.
@@Kkstgch yes, absolutely. People are focusing on the surface and don't try to see what's behind of each character. I blame it on films made in recent years which were straight to the point. Dune is very subtle and demands to focus on emotional part not only what we are seeing and hearing.
Absolutely. It's kind of foreshadowed throughout his visions. In his visions he dies when he meets the fremen. And that's essentially what comes to be. Before he fights Jamis he's touching the rock and he hears the voices telling him something like "to take another life is to take your own."
At the same time. I can kind of see where Shapiro is coming from saying the break might have been better with them heading out into the desert. And i kind of see what he means too saying it feels like it would be similar to Sam and frodo meeting göllum and the film ending. Still, both dune and fotr ended at a thematic point
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I thought the break, while jarring, makes sense artistically because Paul killing Jamis and becoming accepted is the end of the character as we know it. Paul is no longer just Paul, but he’s accepted his path now.
George Lucas actually got a lot of inspiration from Dune when creating Star Wars, which is why The Voice and The Force (the jedi mind trick) are so similar.
And now the producers of this abomination are clearly eyeballing the DOZENS of Star Wars CGI shlockfests that made millions despite sucking, looking at the breadth and depth of the novel, scratching their chin$, and voila...
I actually thought that it ended a couple minutes too soon and thought that it should've ended on the more emotional funeral scene. However, my brother pointed out that it ended with the story of old House Atreides coming to an end and Paul's journey with/as a Fremen beginning.
Without the "final" duel this movie would've been weaker as a single movie, we needed that feeling of temporary "resolution" with Paul going through some kind of passage rite alluding to him starting to become Muad'Dib, otherwise the ending would've gone much more clearly into cliffhanger territory
Yeah I just realized this myself. If it had ended before they found the Fremen, it would not have been as satisfying. Unlike in Lord of the Rings where they end on Frodo and Sam embarking into the jagged mountains, they at least concluded before then. If we had ended with Paul and Jessica embarking into the dessert lost and searching, it would have felt more incomplete. Because they did not defeat anyone or conclude anything. Everything would have been left up in the air. At least in Villeneuve's version, they embark into a new chapter (with the Fremen) after his passage. It feels more complete.
I would have either ended it with the escape from the Sandworm, or even earlier, with the evening after the night in the tent in the desert before the crossing to the hills. But to my mind the perfect ending in either case would have been to leave Paul and Jessica and end the movie with the death of Liet Keynes, one of the most important, and often overlooked, passages in the book. This would have allowed the movie to include the book's message that the arrival and deification of Maud Dib wasn't the salvation of the Fremen. It was a catastrophe.
There's hope after all. A movie in 2021 that isn't a prequel, sequel or spinoff that has the balls to tell a story without holding the viewer's hand or trying to lecture them.
I disagree with you only 3% of the time, but this is one of them. They broke at the perfect place: Its exactly the transition point where Pauls old life ends and his new life (as a fremen) begins which then transforms him. :) As an unrelated side note: Dune part 1's 2 hours was better than the last star wars trilogy ruined by Disney.
I just watched DUNE last night in theater, and it was freakin AWESOME. I saw an interview with the director, where Denis was saying that he was constantly referencing the book while shooting, and it REALLY REALLY shows! I felt like I was "watching" the book because he did such a wonderful job adapting the book on screen. I'm so stoked for Part 2!
That's what I liked about it, except for the ecologist being a woman, everything else is exactly the same as this great book...yes I have read it four times and watched all the older movies
Considering how deeply political intrigue plays in Dune, I was surprised how little Ben delved into the political aspects of the story. It was kind of what I expected the review to be about.
This was one of those movies when less is more. The point is to Introduce the characters, roll the plot and get to a decent pause point. No room for small time political intrigues because the Harkonnen and the Emperor are the big picture. I would love to see "the Banquet" scene if it were in a four hour director's cut.
@@Christian-eq6pq I think he means that the book definitely has a lot more scenes dedicated to the political intrigue, much of which wasn't in the movie (e.g. banquet scene, Thufir Hawat, Yueh and Jessica, etc.). Those parts had a lot of tension and anticipation but could potentially slow the movie down a lot, so I understand why the director may have decided not to include them.
@@Nolaris3 No, the whole premise of the story is political. Paul is a fake messiah, using the fremen for his own means while knowing it. The Bene Gessarit implant religions into societies to control them. The whole story is a warning against charismatic leaders who control the populous by gathering a cult following in the name of a prophecy. It's also a pro-environmental message. Ben Shapiro didn't touch on this because it directly contradicts what he stands for lol
@@joeljimenez5568 Yes, I know that. I am not arguing that the whole story is not political (Frank Herbert himself worked as a political speechwriter). I am only clarifying to the previous comment about what the other commentnwas saying, highlighting the differences between how the movie and the book portrayed political intrigue as a clarification.
Literally the best movie I’ve seen in a good while. Timothee is a very talented actor and he definitely will be doing great things. Very well scripted and not dumbed down like other sci-fis.
He is one of those rare actors who can shine in small indie films like Lady Bird and Call Me By Your Name and also carry a major epic. They used to call someone like that a bankable star.
@@ericthepianoman3409 Two reasons: 1) For book fans, Chalamet is basically the perfect actor for Paul. Both in appearance and demeanor. 2) The subtleties of his performance are pretty excellent. He's not overracting or doing hyperbolic facial expressions, or all that silliness. He can convey the right emotions with almost unnoticeable changes in his tone of voice or expression. You understand what he's feeling, but can't really put your finger on how you know it most of the time. If all this was lost on you, or simply don't appreciate it, it's ok. But don't say it's not there. Because it is.
The ending seemed like the right place to end it to me. Killing the Fremen warrior was killing who Paul Atreides was. By embracing the Fremen culture he was taking his first steps on the road to become Paul Maud’dib.
My wife and I saw Dune on opening day. She had never heard of "Dune." Not because she lives under a rock. It's because she saw Star Wars and thought it was just ok. Sci-fi isn't normally her thing. She really likes dramas. Action but more drama, for instance she LOVES Gladiator because it was done right. Perfectly actually. Russell Crow and Ridley Scott didn't like Maximus, they always thought something was missing with Maximus, like he lacked real human characteristics. in the original script, Maximus was solely out for revenge, and that was too basic. It was essentially a movie about a man who wanted to kill somebody. People have more depth to them than simply revenge. So they spoke to another writer by the name of William Nicholson, who made the story about Maximus about to return home, bound by duty and loyalty, he crosses Commodus when he discovers his treachery thus costing the lives of his family. So Maximus is grieving and in despair. Revenge isn't at the forefront of his mind because he's consumed with the loss of his wife and son. So he made the story about Maximus wanting to go home, killing Commodus just happened to fall into his lap along the way. Nicholson saved the film. And now its a timeless classic. Easily my favorite movie, until I saw Dune. Dune is the best movie I have seen since Gladiator. Top 5 favorite movies of all time are Alien, Aliens, Gladiator, Caddy Shack and now, Dune. Dune is epic. My wife was expecting another version of Star Wars. she whispered to me in the theater: "This movie is incredible! I don't want it to end." And on the way out of it we heard several times over, from what were probably huge Star Wars fans say "This is SO much better than Star Wars." And I agree. I love star Wars but, dune is better. Sorry Lucas.
Congratulations ..Star Wars theme was taken by George and he made it for 13 years old kid..Dune is for adults envisioning us the Human race in the forefront of the future..Dune is just at the start of more possible storytelling ..
star wars is kinda a watered down imitation of dune.. i think Lucas read the book, was inspired, wrote his own version of the heros journey inspired space opera.. thats all good and fine but from the boy savior, to the force, the set and setting, weaponry and shield tech .. _shrug_
"Top 5 favorite movies of all time are Alien, Aliens, Gladiator, Caddy Shack and now, Dune. " With respect Dune is on another level entirely to those films. You could spend a lifetime trying to understand the complexities of Dune.
@@thelawenforcerhd9654 ngl im rewatching dune with a crush of mine, the first time im watching it i was so stunned by the visuals, but after a year of reading literatures (mostly japanese light novels) i now understand the weight of this world.
My father is the type of guy that would not see a movie a second time regardless if he liked it or not. Dune (2021) is the first movie he and I watched on hbo max together. And we both agreed that we NEEDED to see it on IMAX in the theater. When we went to see it, the theater was full, and after the trailers played, everyone was whispering about which of the movies in the trailers they were going to see, then the message played, and everyone was just silent. My father and I chuckled, because this wasn't some half-baked sci-fi movie made as a cash grab, this is a story that has stood the test of time, and will continue to do so.
I watched it in theatre with a bunch of teenagers who just came there to see it because Timothy and Zandeya are in it. They were so obnoxious I almost wished the casting was different. Thankfully Zimmer soundtrack spooked them so they got quiet.
This is in contrast to another film that simultaneously premiered in cinemas and on HBO Max: Earwig and the Witch. Earwig and the Witch's claymation-inspired CGI clearly shows that the anime film was made for TV and they just released it in cinemas at the last minute. The animation is still amazing for TV or direct-to-video standards but it would be mediocre CGI by theatrical standards. Still better than Illumination, though, and it still looks great considering it's Studio Ghibli's first 100% CGI feature film. The film aired on NHK during New Year's Eve in Japan, and it got a theatrical re-release in Japan some months later. China (Ghibli's second-biggest market after Japan) got it direct-to-video a few months after the Japanese theatrical release. Earwig and the Witch was a simultaneous theatrical/HBO Max release just like Dune but the former was clearly made for TV and was shown in cinemas as a last minute decision to make more money while Dune was clearly meant to be seen in IMAX and was just shown in HBO Max because Warner Bros. forced them to. People say Earwig was a terrible film but I thought it was pretty good. Far from Studio Ghibli's best but I would still watch it over most recent Illumination or DreamWorks films. Ocean Waves is still the worst Ghibli film and it's a 6/10 at worst for me, a rating that Illumination only dreams of achieving.
@@nenadmilovanovic5271 shoulda warned the kids if they don't stfu you'll go get the manager and have them removed from the premisis or my name isn't karen
My biggest issue, when I left the theater, was knowing I had to wait a long time to watch part 2 of this masterpiece. As a fan of the novels and someone who enjoyed the old movie, I was delighted with such an amazing work. I agree that if they do a part 2 as good or better than part 1 it'll definitely be a reference in the genre in times to come. Great review Ben, spot on in my opinion.
They cut the power of many lines there are thing they should not have changed, and they explain very little and changed many a scenes . People are more plain looking here. And the new harkonen word is a cringey pronunciation. D, ,
So I've seen the original movie multiple times so it'd be interesting to see the difference between the two. And compare them because the first one was awesome for its time!
interested to see how that will play out, since the gave a lot of false "visions" early on, including apparently having janis be an actual friend (perhaps where he gets the idea to say it, rather than just feeling guilty for having to kill him). I agree that would have been the best place to end on, or just end it where they meet the Fremen. I was HOPING it would end on that note from the David Lynch version where they escape to the rocks and Paul makes his pledge to the moon and his recently deceased father "one day, the sleeper will awaken!"
They might skip that scene and try to avoid Paul being given Jamis wife later on, it might be seen as "problematic". I heard some gossip about part 2 starting with Feyd Rauthas birtday celebration and gladiator duel as a nod to the fight with Jamis and the fight at the end of the movie between Paul and Feyd.
Ben’s ending comparisons to LOTR is not apt. The plot setup for Chani was established earlier on: she narrated the intro at the beginning and frequented Paul’s dreams. I’d argue Dune’s ending is more similar to when the fellowship finally meets with Galadriel and the other wood elves.
It will be instant classic when the second part comes out and you will be able to binge them both together in one 6 hour sitting. I'm happy that they didn't pander to the people with attention deficite and did it for the book fans. The "voice fight" was one of the most epicly done scenes I have ever seen.
Frankly, I liked it for the landscape shots first & foremost, the fact they had little to no woke actors was a huge plus & second reason, third is the originality, they picked a unique series to film instead of some obscure progressive books nobody read. Also the whole desert bandits/space pirates theme was a bonus. This movie I honestly cannot hate, and I'm embarrassingly easy to please yet this industry still manages to underdeliver & underwhelm 99% of the time. OH I FORGOT, you know the hallucinogen fleeting above the sand dunes that they call spice? Well spice is also the real-life slang for DMT (dimethyltryptamine), the strongest psychedelic on Earth, which is dubbed the spirit molecule by ethnobotanists, psychopharmacologists & philosophers, revered by shamans & ancient civilizations.
I agree with Ben on most things including Dune except I did like where the end of part one occurred, after he defeated the Fremen warrior and was accepted by the Fremen and by his dream girl.
Exactly the same here! I disagree with just about everything Ben says but I do like to see intelligent people talking intelligently about the important issues of the day (I can find hope that the World isnt descending into the terminally stupid!!) Agreed on much of the review but I think the point at which the film ends is a pretty good place. The old World of Great House politics has ended for Paul and his new life starts with the march into the desert with the Freman. It was a similar point as Frodo and Sam taking the boat and leaving the others to go on alone. I enjoyed the film and looking forward to the second (maybe even a 3rd?) but I would like to have seen more of the internal turmoil Paul felt in the books as he saw himself as a catalyst for a Galactic war of horror but was unable to stop himself on his path into the desert. The whole model of joint release in theaters and streaming doesnt make sense to me but these corporations are not stupid (most of the time!) and they must know what they are trying to achieve. HBO are releasing couple of spin off mini series and perhaps they hope the joint film release will drive up interest and subscription numbers? I hope it works out for them but I agree with Ben that future releases will go back to theaters only and streaming a couple of months later.
Dude, I kinda like bed and commonly find myself agreeing with him. I was worried he was about to shit all over Dune then I would have been forced to hate him.
Yeah I usually find myself in the same boat. If its something like a film or novel he is reviewing, I must admit the man has an eye for detail. I almost always agree with him, when regarding the 'problem'. He is very good at rooting out an issue, or a psychology that leads to unfavored consequences. Where I disagree with him is when he suggests solutions. Shapiro is an extremely perceptive person, one you want on your side. As far as his ethics go, there are things to be desired, not to say I ever thought he was a bad person. In short, he's a Hawat without a Duke.
The break in the ending is fine. They’re about to venture into Fremen civilization and team up, which marks the beginning of a new act. So that’s sort of a good spot to end in my opinion.
I think it would've been better breaking where Ben said and using the extra 15-20mins to explain/build up certain characters. Dr Yueh was never explained nor the significance of his betrayal. In the book, the others believed it was actually Jessica who betrayed house Atreides. Also, they should've added in the classic quote “Thou shalt not make a machine in the likeness of a human mind.”
@@LCDqBqA It would probably have been better, but remember than when Villeneuve filmed this, he didn't know if there would be a part 2. Ending the movie right when they come accross the Fremen would make a poor ending if there is no part 2.
Saw it opening day in an AMC Dolby Atmos theater. It was EPIC. Absolutely loved this movie. And am happy that Part 2 was greenlit officially. It is supposed to be out in Oct 2023. I agree the visuals were STUNNING. I love Hans Zimmer, probably my favorite composer, I liked the score a bit more than you. But see your point. Such a great film!
Sardaukar's chant pierced me though my chest. When I was reading the book few years ago, I imagined them completely different way. Do I was stunned by this vision and music. Zimmer in my opinion is na equilvalent to Albert Einstein in the composers craft.
The sound was amazing. I don't know if I sat in a sweet spot or something but it gave me chills and a really different experience than other movies where the sound just seems like it's louder in the theater, not incredibly better.
Yup, that was a part of the book I always found kind of silly, on the movie he managed to make the craft to look awesome, all around a great movie, so far the best work I had seen using Herbert books, happy to had watched it on a theatre and paying overpriced pop con, it was worth ir.
That's what I liked most about this version were the ornithopters. Compared to the 1984 version and the 2000 SciFi version, I think these were the best of the three.
I cannot imagine watching that movie on a laptop or tv. It literally does the film a disservice. Dune was probably the most breathtaking, inversive film I've ever seen in theaters. I want to go back and watch it in IMAX now!
It was released in the theaters in a limited run outside of the US before it was released simultaneously in theaters and streaming here in the US. It's already raked in more than $200M in ticket sales alone worldwide.
I think it was a good stopping point. After Paul kills Jamis, they are welcomed into Stilgar's group and ends just before the storyline with the Fremen really begins.
I don’t know, that was the middle of that beat. They will have to start the next film and have the funeral. They should have done the scene with Jamis’s funeral. The one where Paul takes the name Muad’Dib. That could have completed part one better.
@@Thezedword12 yeah, I kind of did too. That said, I do agree with Shapiro. It should have either ended as they crashed into the desert and wandered off or they should have ended it once Paúl got his Fremen name.
@@conservativecatholic9030 I disagree, after Paul gets his freman name would have been a part where it really starts to pick up, I think where it ended was great
I'm very confident about part II. I already had extremely high expectations for Dune when it was released and I feel like it was better than I anticipated. It was a movie I did not want to end. All the way from the first part where Chani narrates the beginning, I didn't want the movie to end. Villeneuve should be proud of his masterpiece.
All the weird shit is in part 2 now. And of course. You’re gonna have more parts. *spoiler* but ……. Paul becomes kind of a Vader figure. Many would argue Duncan is the main bad boy of Children / God Emperor etc
What people don't seem to realize is that the cut off spot was there because that's where Paul Atrades died and was reborn as basically a new character. That was the end of the journey of Paul and the start of the journey as the Kwisatz Haderach. Remember: "Paul Atrades must die for the Kwisatz Haderach to rise...when you take a life you take your own." So when he killed that challenger he killed the old Paul along with him. (Making his visions of dying in that combat actually true -- they just played out spiritually rather than physically.) Notice how immediately after he won the fight, he took control of their actions -- cutting off his mom from the decision making process. She wanted to escape the planet and he said no. We are from here now. So yeah, It was the perfect place to stop.
I don’t know, I think the break placement is good because we have a complete arc for Paul becoming the Kwisatz Haderach after taking the life of Jamis. Plus his decision to stay on Arrakis with the Fremen, feels like Frodo’s decision to leave the fellowship to venture off on his own with Sam
I think on paper it was an ideal place to break the story, and that killing Jamis et al. is indeed analogous to Frodo truly accepting the path before him… I think the reason it felt like an awkward and abrupt ending had to do with the pacing of the movie and the weight given to each scene before that. the ending was appropriately weighty, but so weighty was most everything else, some less appropriately so. the whole movie chugged along and never took a break to let us get to know characters or digest the plot developments. but also, I thought the part where he sees the Fremen riding the worm was a bit silly… maybe he could’ve seen that, then approached the edge of some big crevasse and looked over to see thousands of Fremen there to witness him, and then have him say the part about the power of the desert or whatevs.
That whole thing bothered me, Paul bests him which is why they fight. Had nothing to do with Lady Jessica, she already proved her worth to them by besting Stil. But they could have at least ended it with him crying and the Fremen being in awe at him shedding water for the dead. Also when the maid who's name I forgot pulls out the crisknife and then hands it to Lady Jessica is wrong, you don't unsheath a crisknife unless you tend to draw which is why they all cut themselves at the end of the movie. Also those things were freaking swords for some reason in this movie. Idk, as a huge fan of the book this movie looked amazing but didn't do the story justice the way Fellowship did for its book.
I thought the "this is just the beginning" line by Chani at the end of the movie was a brilliant tongue in cheek move. Like a cherry on top for Dune fans letting us know there is still more to come and hopefully much much more to come! I really loved Villeneuve's DUNE and think it is by far my favorite cinema experience of all time!
@@damazywlodarczyk Unfashionable is only one part of nerd. hyper focusing on details and being interested in highly technical or intellectual subjects also fits the ACTUAL definition. No need to be a douche. especially when you're wrong.
Yes, I loved the more Bedouin/ Moroccan feel. That's exactly the way I imagined it in my head from the books 📚. I might have thrown in a bit more steam punk asthetic. The ornithopters!!!!❤❤❤❤
4:45 *I actually think that the break was done in a good moment. Why?* Because at the end of the film the main character kills the oponent Fremen man who wanted to assume leadership. This is his first kill & thus the end of his innocence & childhood. He dies as Paul and starts to live as a leader- as Mahdi (a messianic figure) which the Fremen worship... So the first movie is about a innocent kid which grows into a man (a leader), the second one will be about the man becoming something more- a Messiah who frees the 🌍... That ending is the perfect time to stop in my opinion...
I think the biggest problem with the ending is that the idea of paul's first kill being the death of Paul and the rise of the Kwisatz Haderach kind of flys over most people's heads, which is why a lot of people are under the impression that it was a bad ending. I'm not saying that it was a perfect ending, but it's definitely better than a lot of people give it credit for.
And if they went any farther with it they would have had to get into Lady Jessica becoming a reverend mother, decide how to handle the Alia thing, etc. The next day or so is a really busy time in the book.
@@kmb957 at the end of the day it’s art and everyone has their own opinion. What did you not like about it? For me it I thought it was fantastic. Top notch visuals, good acting, and a fun story.
Seriously as a huge Bladerunner 1 and 2 fan, I really appreciate the directors. We need more movies like these... Visually stunning, the score is beautiful. Problem is nowadays people can't concentrate for longer they need action or something big happening in every 10seconds. Movies like these will only have a smaller fanbase because those people are the ones who can appreciate the beauty and cinematic art.
I think the visuals on Blade Runner 2 are superior to 1 but movie making techniques are more advanced so there's that. I was disappointed that the theater was so empty when Blade Runner 2 was showing. Looking forward to November for Dune 2.
I feel, if they do well on the sequels we COULD be looking at the next StarWars. I hate to say a 'modern' starwars, but they could totally pull off a franchise that goes for decades with as much content as Dune has to offer. The first movie only covered about half the first book and eluded to a bit of the second at the very end there.
So many arcs to explore. Like wasn't there a robot uprising at one point? I haven't read the books, but you're right, there are so many different aspects to explore. Visually, this movie was stunning. I actually got to feel how brutal those Harkonnen were. I can't wait for them to show the deranged beings mutated by spice consumption. The Dune universe is crazy.
Dune was the inspiration for, among many other things, Star Wars, Nausicaa of the Valley of the Wind, and James Cameron's Avatar. I think another competitor to Dune, Star Wars, and James Cameron's Avatar would be a full film adaptation of the Nausicaa manga. The '80s anime film is really great and is one of my favourite films of all time but it only covers less than a quarter of the manga, which is basically the Japanese Dune. Hideaki Anno (of Neon Genesis Evangelion and Shin Godzilla fame) asked Hayao Miyazaki permission to do a Rebuild of Nausicaa and Miyazaki would only approve if it is done as an anime. Anno thought of making it an anime but he soon wanted to do it in live action after he directed Shin Godzilla. The full manga did get a stageplay adaptation that is six hours long but it still cut out some content from the manga, not to mention that it is a live stage production. To truly adapt Nausicaa into a movie series, they can do four movies that are around two to three hours long each. I would love a major Hollywood adaptation of Nausicaa as long as it's directed by someone who respects and loves the franchise, like Hideaki Anno.
I think the ending makes sense because it's analogous to where Lawrence of Arabia takes its intermission. Of course that movie came complete but I have every confidence they'll be able to follow through on this one.
SyFy actually made a mini-series out of Dune that wasn't bad for what it was. The end of part one here is exactly where I expected. That is the key turning point in the novel. That said I really wish we could have had an intermission and gone on to part two now without having to wait two years.
An intermission and then another 2 and a half hours of movie? I don't think so, the amount of people willing to go to the movie theater for 6 hours is significantly less than the amount of people who will come back to see part 2 or even 3
Harrison's mini series was fairly good for its terrible budget and the meagre performance of its Paul (he does much better in the sequel Children of Dune). With CG production tools being much better today they could have made a mini series for the same price look much better.
Ben: complaining the movie suddenly ends. Frank Herbert: "Arrakis teaches the attitude of the knife - chopping off what's incomplete and saying: 'Now, it's complete because it's ended here."
I went into the movie blind and I really liked how the movie was really easy to follow along with and gets people invested in the story without any prior knowledge of the series
@@calstonjew I think he is being sarcastic. I read the book long ago but kept wondering how someone who has not read them would understand many of the scenes; I would figure most of the them meaningless with what was missing.
I knew very little other than what I knew from what my friend told me about the board game, and when it was over I thought, "that was better than all Star Wars content of the 2000s"
@@nustada Exactly. Scenes were hard to follow and the crap audio only made it more difficult. People that had read the book would find they were looking at a bizarre adaptation that was so ALIEN so lacking in humanity that understanding it was near impossible.
Surprised Ben Sharipo likes Dune when it's an explicit criticism of aggressive imperialism and a commentary of the perils of disenfranchising native peoples. It's not like it was a subtle point Frank Herbert was making 🤣🤣🤣
Frank Herbert was a Conservative, least when he wrote the first book. The artradies are a stand in for the Kennedys and their demagoguery. He said this in interviews.
@@Enderwiggan1 No, its subtle, there is a vague anti imperial message. Leto in the book uses propaganda to create a cult of personality for his son. Caledonians who serve him become become homesick and drunk and they all lose their lives in service to the Areides. Each policial move that the atreides make may look altruistic but really surve their pollical gain. By the end of the book only Gurney remains. It more explicit in the second book.
Yeah the plot had so many parallels to the French occupation of Algeria & their independence movement, going as far as to directly use Arabic lines of protest & etc.
I actually liked where the story ended, I think this movie was supposed to be focussed on Paul and his conflict is taking up a leadership role. The final part of the movie is him doing this. So it feels like a decent conclusion to his character arc.
The wife and I watched it Sunday. Neither of us have read the book, yet we were able to follow the movie's interpretation completely. I liked it, and look forward to Part-2/Conclusion. Beautiful movie, every actor/actress gave it 100%.
@@BindingTheYoke I forgive them for Kines because 1)the actress did a good job, and 2)they didn't make her race/gender the center point like they do in so many other 'swaps'.
@@evilblackcat6357 Aaaah but they did sneak in the subtle slavery angle with her saying "I have only one Master.." etc ..easily missed but it didn't suprise me thats why they changed Kines into a black woman for that line alone. Hollywood just can't not squeak in an agenda. But I agree she did a good job portraying the characters disposition and attitude.
@@BindingTheYoke The also had Chani talking about "oppressors" as well in the opening scene, but in the context of the book and plot it made sense. Liet-Kynes was a bit of a zealot towards his own cause in the book, and she was referring to Shai-Hulud for the line you're referring to. They also gave her a more epic death than her counterpart which I was actually satisfied with.
Christopher Nolan doesn’t make “epics.” That’s the difference between him and Villeneuve. Nolan develops his stories very well, and is a great writer as well as director, but Villeneuve is very good with shots and direction. Nolan takes a very narrative side to storytelling, when Villeneuve often uses shots to tell the story. If you compare a movie like Dune and a movie like Inception or Tenet, there’s a lot more dialogue in Nolan films, and a lot more narrative *shots* in Dune. Thank you for coming to my TED talk
*Villeneuve TRIES to use shots to tell the story, but ends up telling no story at all. Villeneuve is far and away the single most overrated director of our time. He takes the principle "show, don't tell" to mean "show anything and assert that it tells something". He's Malick with excellent visual effects instead of shaky cam fisheye closeups.
I remember seeing the 1984 version in the theater. They handed out a cheat sheet so you could try to follow along with all the names/places/terms. Felt like it was 4 hours long. But, as a 15 year old kid, I liked it.
To those fans who aren't familiar with Timothee Chalamet. Prior to Dune, he was already nominated for an Academy Award, three BAFTA Film Awards, two Golden Globe Awards, four Screen Actors Guild Awards, and five Critics' Choice Movie Awards. That's pretty impressive for someone who is 26 years old.
At first I thought the ending was strange until someone explained the significance of it. Paul's dream of being defeated in the duel with the fremen. "When a man takes the life another, he also takes his own life". Basically, when Paul killed the Fremen man, Paul Atriedes is dead but Paul Maud'Dib is born, leaving the Atriedes name before him. This is the scene of the transformation of Paul and, in my opinion, is the perfect timing for the movie to end.
Problems was the fight was too early..the original film of dune the fight was after Paul and his mother was brought into the Freeman civilization and than the sequence of the right was made..this created more a perfect introduction of Paul moving into his Messiah road
"best looking science fiction movie ever" ok... "the acting is excellent across the board" ok you still got me "score is overdone" all right but I'm down "as a piece of filmmaking it's triumphant" right right right ok I don't have to hate Ben for shitting on the movie. 10/10 review
@@njm2699 same.. like, what is he hearing to say it's the blade runner 2049 score all over again? they're completely different vibes, obviously the both sound like Zimmer, but blade runner, dune is not
Dune was written in the "Golden Age" of SciFi (1965). This was a time when authors were exploring societal issues. The genre lends itself to that by being able to place the setting away from the Earth.
I was curious whether Timothee Chalamet could pull off the "believably vulnerable AND ass-kicking" vibe that Kyle McLachlan did so well in the 1984 adaptation. Not only did he pull it off, he did it even better. The ending felt like a complete cliffhanger and the perfect carry to the next movie. Paul had never killed before and it was such a huge moment. You do that in the next movie and it feels anti-climactic. You do it earlier and it feels like "What's the point?" Like Infinity War going into Endgame. I always felt Hawkeye's family getting blipped should have been another post-credit scene. It would have had a greater lingering effect carrying the next year.
I’m a big Dune fan and I was really worried that they would make it woke. Thankfully, besides race/gender swapping Liet Kynes, they stuck to the book pretty well. I’m looking forward to part 2.
@@humai2939 The gender of the Liet Kynes character is this work doesn’t really matter as long as the performance is good. In the book it was male. In the 1984 movie it was male. In this movie the character of Liet Kynes was played by British actress Sharon Duncan-Brewster and she was great!
I thought making Kynes a black woman was ham handed wokism, and detracted from the story. It didn’t make much sense either, when she exclaimed “I am fremen,” since she isn’t. Or wasn’t, just accepted by them. Bad decision.
Miniseries have low budgets compared with a theatrical release like Dune. Also, it's unlikely they will get into Dune Messiah and Children of Dune, although it'd be pretty awesome if they did. My favorite was God Emperor of Dune but I think that would be the hardest adaptation possible
@@jmilber the director wants to make it a trilogy if allowed with Dune Messiah being the third film. I think that would be the perfect theatrical end point then if popular enough, switch to an HBOMax series and pick up the rest of the story with new leads (and Jason Momoa lol).
It needs a new miniseries, on that at least I do agree. With modern CGI VFX capabilities and fast computers to render it they could do so much better than John Harrison's mini series did, or even Children of Dune which was itself a quantum leap over the OG SciFi miniseries. I'd rather see one good mini series covering the first Dune novel than any 3 separate Netflix shows or films.
They ended it fine. To me it was the ending of Paul Atreides, and the beginning of Paul Mua'dib. Im excited for Part 2. That's where the story really shines on my opinion.
Exactly. Not mentioning that it would have been weird to start the movie with Paul meeting fremen and then fastforwarding the story two years into future right away. The ending we've got was perfect and it sets up the second part in right way.
I've never read the book, let alone watched the original 1984 version. But I thought the ending was pretty good too. Furthermore, despite the fact that it was very long I truly kept up with it until the end. I am actually Impressed by that. I am definitely looking forward the the second installment.
Saw this movie in IMAX today and was left absolutely stunned. It was Sci Fi that treated me like an intelligent human. Instead of dumbing things down like Star Wars it let me grasp them on my own. I cannot wait for the sequel.
I knew Frank Herbert at the time he was writing Dune. He was deep into ecology. He lived on his own private island decked out with every ecological tool available at the time. Dune reflects his concerns about the environment
@@jamesgornall5731 He was deep into ecology. He lived on his own private island decked out with every ecological tool available at the time. Dune reflects his concerns about the environment.
you realize you're claiming to be old enough to have had a relationship with Frank in 1965 or earlier? If we pretend that you were in your mid teens back then, you would be about 70 now. And 71 dipshits believed you.
I generally disagree with Ben on everything political and societal, but it's refreshing to see he can keep his review about Dune, and not drag political points where they wouldn't belong. Cheers to that Mr. Shapiro.
I'm not a fan of Ben Shapiro, but damn if he just made his channel breaking down film like this I would be completely all about it. This was excellent to watch.
Having read the books, I was okay with where it ended. I won't say more, because I don't want to spoil for people who see the second movie and haven't read the books. So far, I think it is a very good telling of the story, being much more in line with the source material than you see with a lot of books made into movies. I'm looking forward to part 2.
@@The12thSeahorse Because it's such a sprawling saga with so many characters, I think it should be in 3 parts to equalize character development with plot. If they rush through the plot in only two parts, my concern is that people won't be able to relate with the characters enough to become emotionally invested.
Should I read the book or just wait for part 2 to be released? I’ve heard the 2nd part will be very good so I don’t wanna spoil my self by reading the book but also really wanna know what happens
@@rohaanfarouq7284 Books are always better than the movies, but this adaptation is pretty close to the books so far. There are 6 books in total for the series, so the story will continue past what the movies will likely cover. It's up to you if you want to wait 2 years for the next movie, or dive into the books to get the whole experience ahead of time. 2 years is a pretty long time to wait.
The ending is in a good spot in my opinion. It ends after Paul finally accepts his foreseen path. When he kills Jamis, Paul is also symbolically killing his old self.
I personally loved the impact Zimmer had. I totally see how it came a little too heavy at certain parts for an already weighty movie. But that extra power from the score made it that much more impactful for me.
@@dondraper499 Exactly. These guys have never listened to even any experimental bands from the 80s and 90s who were doing this shit long ago like Deep Forest, Single Gun Theory, etc.
@@dondraper499 I didn't say it was original. After all, it's extremely difficult to be original these days. But I still annoyed the affect the music had in enhancing the atmosphere of the movie.
"Harkonnen. Kinda of a stand in for the soviets." Alright Ben. Lets discuss how you are shoehorning in a political message that makes 0 sense. First, dune was written in 1965. 2.) Spice is very similar to oil production, the Muslim and arab themes throughout the work should be readily apparent. 3.) In 1965 the Soviet Union had little influence in Middle Eastern oil production, Its influence began to creep in around this period, but the Harrkonen have been on Arrakis for decades, they are the old holders of Arrakis... I seem to recall the British and Americans having massive influence over Iraqi oil production from 1919 till 1972, see the IPC.
The only thing remotely "soviet" is the fact that the head of House Harkonnen is named Vladimir. There's nothing about the Baron or Giedi Prime that says Soviet analog. It's clear he didn't read any of the novels.
@@kevinsiu4956 Frank Herbert was apparently against the Soviets but he stood against the red scare stuff happening by the US. He was also against the Vietnam War. He describes how people can get behind wrong people and that such following is faulty from the beginning. In my view the Freman being Baathists or Middle Eastern revolutionaries would still fit.
I'm no fan of Ben Shapiro but he's not wrong here. It's been widely accepted for ages that there's an element of loose Cold War allegory in the Atreides/Harkonnen rivalry -- and often gets brought up critically, since one of the complaints about Herbert is how cartoonishly evil the Harkonnen are characterized. It's all really on the nose and not super subtle: -Harkonnen rule despotically and are arbitrarily cruel; the Atreides seem to legitimize their hereditary rule with popular assent -The Middle East and petropolitics were both major, major components of the Cold War. Herbert very clearly had MENA + oil in mind when he came up with Arrakis + spice -Harkonnen is a vaguely Finnish sounding name, and yes, Finland wasn't part of the Eastern Bloc, but there were ethnic Finns. And yes, this does get cited. Also iirc I think in the Dune universe, the Harkonnen actually have some semi-legendary lineage going back to the Soviet Union. All the intermediate steps between the modern nation-state system and the gradual "refeudalization" of the Dune universe were filled in after the fact
@@janosmarothy5409 Trying to draw analogs with geopolitical rivalries is a stretch. It's easier to draw comparisons between the characteristics of certain cultures rather than specific periods in their histories. For example, Tleilaxu view women strictly as brood mares and turn them into "axolotl tanks" to make face dancers, gholas, etc. Their word for non Tleilaxu is "powindah" which was borrowed from Pashtun. Not too hard to see which people in modern day society fit that bill. A quick history search would suggest that if Harkonnens were a Russian analog, it would have been of the era when they occupied Finland for 100 years after they seized it from Sweden. It sounds like they were extremely hated. Simo Hahya and Laurii Torni made it their singular purposes in life to kill as many Russians as they could. The former killed 500+ as a sniper. The latter joined the Finnish, German, and French armies during WWII. Despite knowing that, I still don't see that much of a parallel.
Been a long time I haven't seen such a sci-fy master piece, I fully recommend seeing it in a top movie theater, with the best sound and picture quality. 5 star on the plot, the actors, the sets, the sound. This puts all the latest sci-fy franshises like the last 3 Star-Wars or latest Star-Trek in the pocket.
couldn't agree more, its the best scifi ive seen in ages....really feels like another world, rich and well thought out. I was awestruck many many times
I think right now Blade Runner 2049 is Denis' masterpiece, can't really pass a full judgement on Dune until he finishes it. (of course I do have complete faith that part two will come through as a true masterpiece but it just isn't out yet)
For something that takes place in the desert 80% of the time, this was the most entertaining film I've seen in a while. There were a few scenes that literally made me gasp, they were so beautiful to look at.
Perfectly said Ben! I really hope part 2 is like 3+ hours long. They did get through about half the book technically. But the the more heavy weighted dialogues and plot points remain in the 2nd half which I think deserves a slower pace and more screen time. I would gladly watch a 3+ hour part two if it is as grand as part 1! I also 100% agree that Dune should be seen on the big screen and find it incredibly stupid that it was released on HBO max at the same time. This is the perfect film to revamp watching movies at the theaters. Theaters were hit hard due to the china virus and who swooped in and made the big bucks? Multi-billion dollar companies who were ready to release all of their new streaming platforms to replace the theaters right when covid started.
Can I just be a little pedantic and say this book was written BEFORE Star Wars so if anyone is copying anyone, the Jedi got their mind tricks from here, not the other way around..
I thought it was stupid at first too. Shapiro is a joke. But at the time of the first book, it was in the middle of the Cold War. It isn’t entirely out of the question that they could at least be somewhat representative of the Soviets or even the U.S. The baron is gluttonous, which could be an analog to American excess. So I don’t think it’s a totally invalid interpretation. Definitely something that it hard to interpret since DUNE as a series is so far flung from any notions we currently know of. Herbert was totally out there in a great way.
@@celeryslice Yes, I tend to believe the Harkonnens are more like the military industrial complex of the USA than the oligarchs of the Soviet party. At the very least the Harkonnen resemble some kind of terrible, inbred, greedy aristocracy. In the early scenes of Dune when we are first introduced to The Baron, he strokes his big, bald head with his hands just like Colonel Kurtz from Apocalypse Now's "you're just an errand boy" scene. Colonel Kurtz was also corrupt, evil royalty.
@@Paraselene_Tao TLDR to Frank Herbert’s point… government, leaders, and politics plague humanity and are preventative to human evolution. Fuck Shapiro, fuck democrats, fuck Republicans, fuck soviets, fuck racists, fuck nazis.
For me, the reason it's hard to adapt is that in the book the characters have SO much internal dialog. The original film suffered from that in my opinion. Looking forward to seeing this version very much.
The origional film was the worst book adaption ever when I went to the movie. Later I watched a more complete version on video and realized that the version shortened for the movie audience was just a bad trailer. Peter Jackson blazed a trail for making a movie series from a book by putting his directors fees as conditional on it being a hit and insisting on breaking it up
Well I have not read the book, didn’t knew anything about the movie but still went and in-fact felt that something was missing. Everything looked like it was going by without any soul or character development.
Villineuve is also a Dune nerd and always wanted to make his version, kinda like Peter Jackson with King Kong, so it is in good hands. This is 100% an IMAX movie. This is the movie to put butts in the seat, COVID be damned
That’s such an funny comparison! When I was a kid and saw his King Kong in theaters, it impressed me so much that my grandpa and I immediately got new tickets and saw it again, back to back. This week, I went back to see Dune for the second time the day after I first saw it, too. Both were definitely an epic experience.
@@Solo_brolol It is. Almostly errily to Oil production in Iraq. Which to burst Ben's bubble was run by American and British companies from 1928 to 1972. Dune was written in 1965 during a period of instability within Iraq.
@@Solo_brolol it’s got nothing to do with the Soviet Union, it’s about imperialism and capitalism. It’s specifically about the greedy American and British corporations exploiting nations like Iraq. It’s also about being careful who you follow or support blindly.
Ben hasn't read the novel, or he has but it was so long ago that his memory is faulty. And "Jedi mind tricks" came decades after "Dune" the novel was written.
Probably not or he would have preemptively rated this one poorly. He probably just got wrapped up in the exciting religious extremism and war mongering theme and never read the later books.
I was incredibly hyped for this movie and my jaw was open the entire runtime. Until the end. It felt so anticlimactic that I wasn't sure what to think. A couple days past and with the announcement of part 2 i can confidently say this is one of the best theatre/movie experiences of my life. So happy that the public is responding positively and part 2 is coming!!!
Should have been 5 minutes longer in my opinion, in the book he kills Jamis and is accepted by the Freman then he gets his name, Mua'dib. They cheer his new name and then the 2nd "book" which is literally called Mua'dib ends. The third book "Prophet" then jumps two years or so later.
@@abeliiibecerra5281 the crusades have nothing to do with it. There were wars in the middle east against the british and the ottomans in the 19th and early 20th century
@@Aurelian_Augustus777 my comment is in response to Blorgus claim that Dune was written before middle eastern wars. The crusades is one of the oldest examples for what we come to think of when we hear middle eastern wars. However, yes I am aware many more wars were fought in the middle east well before the crusades.
