Thanks all for joining :) Do not worry - the usual style of video is going nowhere! This live format was a one-off to demonstrate a big glue up in real time.
You could first moisten the lamellas with steam, bend them to the desired radius, and then glue them together with much less stress. Challenge is valid)
Retired shipwright here. You are at the limit of what that size wood will bend. You can use a metal strip on inside and out to help to not get any hard spots and minimize breaking. I have steamed them, clamped them, then let them dry before glue up. You can never have too many clamps. Interesting trick is that it is possible to plane the inside curve on a thickness planer. You can steam seasoned oak but it takes longer.
Carl, one big suggestion, choose an exterior wood glue with a much longer set time for several reasons. First, a slow setting glue will allow you to achieve numerous goals. First, you're no longer in a race against the clock. Second, a slow setting glue will allow the planks to move about as you continue to apply clamps. Clamping will not become more difficult because you're not fighting glue that's already setting or set up. Plus, if the glue has set, then you force movement the glue will not reset as well. A slow curing glue will allow you plenty of time to perfect your clamping, allowing the planks to move over one another as the clamping is changing the over all shape. Then let it really set up for a couple of days. Then, with help, run your new beam through a surface planer. It will come out looking fantastic. Also, make the planks 15% wider than you need, allowing plenty of excess material to plane off. Now you can surface plane to the exact dimensions you want with no pockets or low spots. It will look fabulous. Best of luck
Aside from the other comments about long setup (polyurethane) glues, if you are going to bend boards of this thickness, you need to do it with hot boards that have been steamed until they are much more pliable.
Just caught up to this , like others infer, you have set yourself a tough challenge.. like the posters previously, and I have built many spiral and curved stairs railing and ballistrades, that and many more laminated cabin tops and deck beams as a boat builder/Joiner. One glue that I most often used was a powder resin by Lapage' (UF 109) .. Using a steel former defiantly helps, as does starting at the center and working out leaving a margin to trim the ends, and for thicknessing.. Never leave yourself short on handling time, as a tough lesson is to have to buy several hundred dollars worth of new stock and write off the cost of time and tooling. Also , did you allow for spring back? Curved beams often relax a bit after coming the clamping bench.. we normally would do a trial run in order to measure spring back.. springback can be alleviated by using thinner strips, and longer clamp time. Anyhow, I enjoy your videos..
Carl a few things that will help. Thinner strips also start from one end. And have clamps in between every block. I built curved stairs and spiral staircases for a living for 30 years. Another hint is you only need glue on one's side and not to plain the oak strip,the fibers hold it together better
@@carlsmith2826 To do this in sections where they will be stacked, the radius needs to be different because the stripped sections going outward are going to be a slightly larger radius. Side by side, they will be the same radius, but stacked, the radius will increase. Think about a race track...runners are staggered because the outside lanes have a wider radius, thus longer distance to the finish line.
Carl you are going about this the correct way to ensure the best outcome for beam strength. We used to make circular staircases and glued the crrcular/spiral stringers and handrails this way, 14 feet long in a vertical spiral. You need more clamps. You should modify your clamps! Remove the piviting red handles and weld a nutin its place. You can now use a impacted gun with a socket to tighten the clamps! It will save you a ton of physical activity and exhaustion. It will also be quicker. You should be using an exterior water proof glue with a longer open time. Decades ago we would use a brown resin glue that we would mix with water, spread with a pant roller, and would give us a 30 minute open time. Once these dry they will be really stable! Wonderfull job! Cant wait to see the finished project.
Note to self.... next time I am going to do a massive glue up using something with an open time of just ten minutes... I will probably create less stress for myself by also live streaming it to a few thousand people and at the same time answer their questions and talk them through it. Seems simple enough! Loving your work!
Take 1 of thise clamp cut the handle of and weld abig nut on it this way you can use ratchet and socket to tighten up it would save on your risk for tight then up
Love the content. One observation. Why not make the glue up over several days? Glue up the first two pieces in the morning. Add the third piece in the afternoon. Repeat until you have added all of your layers. That way you are only fighting the tension of one board at a time.
Carl, I was a cabinet maker for more than 40 years I did what you are doing several times. I used steam to make the oak more flexible. That method stopped my failures. I made a steam chamber out of PVC pipe. I use a new 5 gallon metal gas can as a boiler with a propane burner as a heat source. A flexible radiator hose to the gas can to the steam chamber.
Well, I quit smoking 23 years ago and never before wanted a sigarette as badly as I did watching this video. My nerves! Well done! ❤ from South Africa 🇿🇦
You’re by far the most likeable creator I regularly watch on here mate! I’m a fellow chippy, absolutely love your pride in the work. Great to see the job done so well by such a top bloke! Keep it up Carl
Of course there are different ways to attack this project but you've chosen one and made it work, and it was a great pleasure to watch. Thank you for showing the process to us all.
Really great video, sorry I couldn't be on for the live stream. About being obsessive, don't worry about the small stuff, show your mistakes, it makes the video more relatable. I think I can say we all love the videos and glad to see your progress.
I hear you man. Looking at the other comments I agree that a slower setting glue would have been a good choice. And, I like the idea of a phased glue up with two or three boards at a time. Regardless, the most basic and easy glue ups re stressful even with the best prep and planning.
Hi Carl, a couple of suggestions: - apply the glue in both directions, either using the roller backwards or changing to using your left hand. You are wasting half the time walking back to the same end to start. - wrap the loose blocks you use on top in plastic so they won't stick to the laminate. I love the way you work out your own methods for doing things. I also like to do that and although it's not always the best way, at times I have surprised experienced builders with my ideas. I learn a lot from watching you though my projects are much more modest now (I'm 78). Greetings from Australia - I was fast asleep during your live stream but watched it this morning
Excellent work as always Carl. Please don't feel pressured into making Live videos. The charm of your channel is watching quality craftsmanship - the calming wind chimes are also a plus 😉. This video must have been quite stressful to make, it was certainly stressful to watch.
That live episode was a nice treat, even watching 2 hours after the event. Your fixture and process look solid. I wonder if a large ratcheting cargo tie-down strap could make any of that easier. Thank you for having us along for the ride.
@carlrogers I just started watching this video. You stated three ways to build this arch. I have a fourth. Do exactly what you are doing, but start with just two boards. After the glue dries, glue up and add one more board. This will make clamping much easier and faster. Also, I would soak the boards in water before adding them to the arch. This will reduce cracking and, again, make clamping much easier.
Carl you could always use west epoxy that would give you greater cure time but super strong. After all they laminate ribs up in boats using this method. Great content love the programme 👍
I might suggest trying a large ratchet strap, like they use on large cargo on large trucks. It would allow you to pull tension around the entire arch at once, while staying behind the danger zone.
Loved your meticulous preparations and the risk analysis. Perhaps using slightly thinner strips and longer setting glue would help. Has reminded me of my youth helping my father to steam oak ribs and put them into our fishing boat - over sixty years ago. Great video.
Really enjoyed that. Seeing the process in real time brings it home how hard you work. Knew you worked hard, but we actually got to see your struggle too. Being a sufferer of RA myself, feel the pain of what you’re doing. Rest up between. Won’t say pace yourself, there’s no such thing with RA. ❤❤
I’m probably not the first to suggest that two part epoxy has several advantages over other adhesives for curved form laminations such as yours. With a slow hardener the working time is casual compared to the stress of your ten minute wood glue, so way more time to get all your clamps on. There’s no initial tack so things don’t stick together before you want them to. If properly thickened epoxy is gap filling so provides a strong bond even where laminations don’t contact perfectly, and the bond is absolutely waterproof. Once cured there’s no creep, so less spring back. About the only advantage standard wood glue has for your application is not needing to be mixed, but the reduction in stress using epoxy is worth the few extra minutes that requires. Admire your boldness tackling the projects you do - inspiring work!
Hi Carl I watched after the live stream finished. An excellent video as all ways. Sorry to hear about your arthritis my wife suffered for years until it was discovered she had Haemochromotosis ie. Too much iron in her blood after treatment giving A pint of blood a month a massive improvement. Just a thought!! Best wishes Alan
Hi Carl, On smaller laminating projects it would be ideal to steam and clamp to the shape that you want, then allow to dry. Almost pre-forming the timber to the desired shape. You can overcome the Castellations by using wider boards and when the piece is set, run the item through a planer thicknesser to the desired width. Generally speaking thinner straps are easier to conform to a radius shape. In my experience 5-6mm straps are easier to form, but the downside is more strips mean longer gluing time is required. Only glue one side of each board when sandwiching the pieces together. The wood fibres will lock in the PVA creating a strong bond. I would have used blocks the width of the timber to also spread the load when clamping.
This was absolutely fascinating, Carl. Thanks so much for sharing it. I very much appreciated your explanation upfront but remained pretty nervous throughout. Well done! Thanks again.
I've seen the comment to glue in both direction thus saving valuable time. Another huge time saver. Place plastic on the back side of your jig table. Lay all the boards out flat. Glue them all at once. Then all of them at the jig side of table on edge against the blocks. Start clamping from there. You will have the most amount of time to clamp and adjust as needed this way. Also most wood glues use a bit of force to help set them so your 10 minutes might not start as soon as you apply it but rather once you start putting the boards together. No matter how you choose to go about the rest of them excellent work my friend.
Missed the live chat. Enjoyed the format. Perfection isn't real. Stress is real. Preparation is real. Logical thinking is real. Getting the glue up done required all of these elements. Very impressed with your thought process, preparation and execution. This would not have worked for the staircase, which I loved, or the roof, which took a long time. But this does work for a lot of stuff. Thanks!
Thanks for the improved audio and kudos for another successful glue-up, albeit a stressful one. I build guitars in my spare time and have had a few annoying fails in that department … 😉 There are always other ways to go about projects and processes, but you‘ll improve on your chosen process and become quicker and develop a routine - not to worry! 👍🏼
Great video (as always) - the fact you filmed this in real time demonstrates just how strenuous and stressful this can be. Looking forward to the next installment in the Shepherd’s hut series!
Tried a smaller project years ago, softwood, and I found ratchet straps a great help in forming. Glue rendered them useless after a while so kept an eye out for old ones at flea markets. Still use the ratchet strap method today, smaller jobs and such as curved bar / kitchen tops
Wow! You did it alone. Impressive process. I bet your hands needed a good break after that (not to mention back & hips). I've never seen this process before and I'm awed.
The split should be able to be repaired with a clamp and more glue, I have seen laminations done with epoxy successfully on one of the boat building/renovating channels it might be worth looking into, I don’t see any reason why dry oak wouldn’t steam so long as it’s left in the steam box long enough 😊 good job 👍
I wish I hadn't missed this. It just came up in my feed this afternoon. Usually I see your channel pop up right away. So I subscribed in the hope I will get to see your vids right away.
There are clamps with bit for allen key on the end of the handle, so that you can power it with the drill bit. This would be a big improvement for time and energy saving. Do you know them?
Looks great, i recommend using blocks of waxed oak or steel on the outside edge clamp arms, more even pressure, less chance of cracking and may reduce the shifting causing your castellationing. Well done
My brother was a spiral stair craftsman. First he made the curved jig form. He made the curved beam by using a 2" thick x 12" wide x(however many feet you need)long board and made dozens of wedge shaped cuts all along the length, having the blade cut it about 3/4 through the thickness, filling in every cut with wood glue, bending and clamping it with dozens of clamps to the jig form. Let it dry for a day. The glue is very strong, just like a glulam but easier to clamp.
Well done Carl. I too am under the dreaded 90 day Schengen Agreement. I'm also working towards a permit. Good luck with your adventures. Greetings from Auvergne
In the 1960's I was shown how to bend a 1" thick Oak skirting board to fit in a bay window. It took time but was an easy job. What you do is set two trestles the desired distance apart at a height greater than the depth of the arc. Ensure the trestles are fixed in place. Lay the finished board with excess length across the trestles and place 12 house bricks on the board in the centre. Over approximately three weeks, the board will bend into a nice arc. Before removing the bricks, tie the ends of the arc with a strong cord, remove the bricks and then fit and fix the board into the bay. Remove the cord and cut and finish the board ends.
Excellent work, Mister. You did remarkably well to stay outwardly calm. With regard to other options, I've seen people use ratchet straps to start the bend and then follow up with the clamps as you’ve done. I've also seen others use a thin metal plate on the outside and a winch, and then follow up with the clamps again. It's probably far too late in the process now. With regard to help, although again too late now, you’ve undoubtedly got eager followers across the planet and a good few in France, too. And likely a lot with good hands on woodworking experience. Just a thought. Hope your flaring up episode subsides. Thank you for your excellent content.
I was taught to steam seasoned oak after soaking it to rehydrate. Maybe 7mm strips, and they had to soak for about two days prior to steaming. I think there’s a formula for thickness to soak time, much like soaking dried willow for weaving. After that, the steaming only takes a few minutes, because it’s just a matter of heating through. It’s an involved process for 7mm strips and to do your beam from one timber might require several days of soaking (and a suitable trough) followed by extended steaming. I think your glue-lam is going to be righteous. I’ve also experimented with that. Much smaller project, a garden gate arch, and I didn’t take nearly the care you did. After some planing, though, the result was quite pretty and timber-like, even with some gaps. Keep it up. You’re doing really well.
Not sure if you're still working on the rest of the glue laminated curved beams, but I wanted to bring up a couple of pointers to perhaps ease some of the difficulties I saw on the video, specifically regarding bending wood based on templates, you could double or triple up the plywood, and cut the curve that's needed into one edge of the plywood form. For clamps you can cut 2" holes in the plywood along the curved profile, and clamps in the holes. That will make it much easier to turn the clamp screws and make the template form smaller and easier to get around. Clamp piece of flat metal or wood stock to avoid castellation first, and then use a ratched strap to go around the entire form and lamination assembly to curve all the wood simultaneously without straining your hands with the pump style clamps. Then add the final clamps in the holes and tighten the all clamps/ratchet strap in a round robin fashion to keep the strain on the wood even, to prevent cracking and getting all the forced even.
re hip replacement surgery. Here in the US, I had my hip replaced and I was on my feet the very next day, and, in stages, fully recovered by 3 months. It is now being offered on an outpatient basis where a 5 A.M. surgery is quickly completed within 1/2 hour, lunch is served (early) and the patient is up walking, using a walker by noon, and released no later than 6 P.M. No severe pain!
And in 10 to 20 years? How many artificial hips can they put in your femur? Every loosening takes away some bone. So at some point there isn‘t enough bone left. As far as I know, the idea - apart from U. S., where anything goes and quick fixes seem best - is still to keep your bone as long as possible.
The sound is good - the mic works very nicely. Can you use a wood that bends easier than oak? I know it is not oak but it can still look nice. Also, can you drill dozens of tiny little pin holes in the wood to make it bend easier?
My Dad used a thick base board with peg-holes, the former was fixed to the board. Then as the steamed boards were put between the pegs and former he tapped wedges in to hold the curved boards in place. No clamps at all, it was quick and straightforward. He restored his vintage 1925 Austin car which needed all new wooden body framing.
Carl. Love the content. I have successfully bent green-ish white oak into an 8' radius using steam Honestly, it's more about getting a good amount of heat into the wood than moisture. A tension strap on the outside of the curve helps a lot to prevent splitting on the tension side of the bend.
This reminds me of a visit to the Steinway Piano factory in New York that I made some years ago. The rims of grand piano cases are made from long, flat strips of kiln-dried maple that are laminated together into "sets" and clamped around a form in the shape of a grand piano -- Very similar to the process you are using.
Well done fella. I know I am a bit late but thanks for the content. We are heading into winter so not as many projects for me, so good to to watch some else’s projects.
Love the video. I am not sure if this has been mentioned, but something to consider in terms of cost; instead of using oak for all 7 pieces, you could replace some with plywood strips of the same dimensions. They do make good oak laminates that you could use to hide the edges, but I am not sure how it would affect the aesthetics that you are trying to achieve.
Great job! I guess you always look for the imperfections but they look great from here. What about some wooden c shaped clamps made to be just slightly bigger than the finished width plus the holding blocks and wedges. They might be faster than clamps and you could also force the bend from the centre out progressively by knocking the the clamps further around as you go? Did any of that make sense🤔
I agree with the suggestion to go with West Systems. Gougeon Brothers make a wide range of products with different cure times. I would look for something that sets up in a couple of hours (105 and 206), mixed with Aerosil/Cabosil for greater strength. This takes the pressure off and lets you work a lot slower. I built a lot of boats and molds. Jamestown Distributors also sells epoxy called Total Boat and it is very popular with furniture builders.
We do both laminated and steam bending of white oak. Mostly for curved transom frames. . (The back of the boat). One of our bending jigs has a series of clamps we made that are nut and bolts and 1"x1" white oak. That is the clamps we tightened the nuts from the center out. We use an impact wrench to tighten ...it takes about 3 -4 minutes to tighten all the oak clamps.. ir is a little smaller than yours. . We have less time when steaming. When we use resorcinol glue for white oak... But it is a bit of a pain to mix a powder and the liquid. But it is forever.
Someone else mentioned to modify, which is quite easy, your clamps to be tightened with an impact wrench. I would also add, that finding the proper torque for keeping too much glue seepage, and using a torque wrench for equal clamp pressure would be best, and would take 60% less time.
I was pulling for you the whole way thru, now I am exhausted. I really like the idea of welding nuts to the clamps and using an empact. Electric clamps.
Hi Carl, For efficiency my suggestion is, have all the clamps on the jig table ready to use. I agree with others that do it in stages and prebend the boards by what ever method you choose.
I have arthritis in my hands and lower spine too, so I know what you're feeling. All things considered, you've done a bang up job with the gluing. So, are the first two ribs usable? BTW, I like the change of pace with the live video.
A few quick suggestions, use flat sawn lumber only with grain crown up and cup down. Mixing quarter sawn with flat sawn,,,, they have different flex’s. It isn’t actually necessary to use kiln dried lumber when that lumber is being used in framing a home or boat, in fact green lumber is better and it’s also less expensive. Get a chainsaw mill, cut your own large beams and timber wherever you are. I’ve done both the laminating and do my own milling. You did good👍
