No mention of Jimmy Page? we certainly do live in a cancel culture where history is rearranged to fit the narrative. Page sparked more interest in Jansch then before the others were out of short pants.
@@user-qk3sc8rq9r You realise The Pentangle were huge before Led Zeppelin had even got started. Bert needed nobody to spark any interest in him, and as he wasn't credited on the first Led Zeppelin album how would anyone have know at the time that it was his arrangement that Page ripped off.
Dude tell me about it. I’ve been trying to play this forn2 months and the timing of the hammer on pull off final note of that tiny section is impossible. My hand wasn’t built this Way.
"The thing I've noticed about Jimmy [Page] whenever we meet is that he can't look me in the eye," Jansch told Classic Rock in 2007. When pushed to elaborate, Jansch continued, "Well, he ripped me off , didn't he? Or let's just say he learned from me. I wouldn't want to sound impolite."
The 1101 Experiment Bert May have learned the song from Anne Briggs, but it takes only one listen to her version to realize how original Bert’s arrangement was. She sang a vaguely similar melody over mostly just one chord, while Bert’s version added many different chord voicings, reinforced the melody and added lots of melodic guitar licks to counter and support the melody. If he had changed the lyrics he probably could have claimed it as an original song and nobody would’ve even made the connection but instead he listed it as a traditional song. Page, on the other hand, took Bert’s version note for note and claimed it as his own.
David Oscar Flores Page didn’t take it further, he just copied Bert’s arrangement and played it faster and added a tabla player. But that aside, Bert never claimed to write the song, even though what he brought to it was very original. Page, on the other hand, copied Jansch’s arrangement and then claimed that it was an original composition! How do you defend that?
David Oscar Flores I’m of a lesser mindset? That’s funny, because I’m not the one who doesn’t know the difference between opinion and facts. Your opinion that Page “perfected” it is nothing more than your opinion. The FACT is that it doesn’t matter who you THINK played it better, Page claimed to have written something that he obviously did not. THAT is the FACT here. “Deal with it.”
Bert was my first major influence after I got bored with Donovan, and I learnt this song in 1973 by listening over and over again to the record. It's sublime for me now to see him actually playing it on screen. Beautiful performance.
I'm sorry to inform you that you have bad taste in music if you think the Anne Briggs version is better than any Bert version. She's incredibly talented but has nowhere near the charm that Jansch does.@@michaelquinn3878
This is a beautiful performance, gentler than the one I have on a recording. Bert Jansch & his snapping of the strings along with great left hand technique do this 'traditional' piece proud. I read below the much discussed controversy about Jimmy Page and his "Black Mountain Side" version. I love Page's version with the tabla. His playing is masterful as well. That second side of the first Led Zeppelin album is beautifully sequenced, the way the songs segue into each other. Both players with tremendous talent. They have inspired so many. A great post.
The problem is they copied it w/o attribution. This is Jansch's beautiful arrangement. Here's another fantastic version, by another unrecognised genius, Kell Joe Phelps:: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-0XWzjbKcPi0.html&ab_channel=MyMoppet52
This is a traditional song arranged by Jansch, and it his arrangement that is so unique and special. Led Zeppelin ripped it off without acknowledgement or payment which in my book is disgraceful. LZ ripped off countless artists, and they were so powerful that less wealthy artists could do little about it.
I saw Jansch several times in bars and concerts in and around London in the 80s. Sadly today I have to listen to recordings, as memories fade, but he was a marvellous musician. He was a troubled man, which is sad given his talent.
Back in the 1960s, I learned fingerpicking from Bert's 'Courting blues', 'Running from home' and 'Needle of death', and others. This masterpiece, however, could never be replicated: the feel, the depth- the love. Sadly, the master is no more.
"Running From Home"! I used to play that in folk music clubs back in the 60s. I worked it out in G, but it never sounded quite right. Years later I found out that Bert played it in A.
I used to go to a folk club in the Midlands and we were blessed to have a guy that played and sang very much like him, just bliss to be in the same room 👌🎶
polyglotta1 I can’t imagine. Awesome story, if I ever get the money to travel overseas I will definitely need the name of that pub!! I’m trying to learn this perfectly, as an American I know how stupid we are when we travel. If you can play this perfectly I feel like it would earn some respect. Although I’d like to think that I’d be a “good tourist” and would be respected (or treated with some decency) for knowing my place and not being a loud jackass.
@@mattlawson714 You don't need to apologise for your nationality! 😸 I don't believe in playing something 'perfectly,' there has to be some room for your own interpretation. Hope you will post a recording!
@@polyglotta1 Thank you! I agree that playing something "perfectly" is overrated, a computer could do that and totally miss the point. When I strive for "perfection", I really strive for the "feel" of the song, rather than perfect notes. I know plenty of guitar players who can technically play a part the way a computer would, and it totally misses the mark. For this one I would benefit greatly to play it while another person sings. And vice versa. Bert gets really quiet at times, I'd love to have a female sing his part an octave up so it really stands out.
One morning fair I took he air Down by blackwater side T'was gazing all al around me The Irish lad I spied All through the fore part of the night We lay in sport and play Till this young man arose and gathered his clothes Saying 'Fair thee well today!' That's not the promise that you gave to me When first you lay on my breast You could make me believe with your lying tongue That the sun rose in the West When go home to your father's garden Go home and weep your fill And think on your own misfortune That you brought with your wanton will
@@JulioLeonFandinho I've started playing without nails and I am better able to capture the slap sound that he does, since I can pull the string further with the pads of my fingers
Amazing.. and LOST on all of us Does anyone know where the lil ones go??? It makes me sad that this will be lost on us... even by me The lil ones don't know :(
Ann Briggs - gave it to JP I think - she was a lost star for to many years - but poped up again on folk Britain - and 1996 CDs brought her into view again .
The guy is Finn Kalvik - a Norwegian folk singer in much the same veine as Bert himself. He got to know Bert when he went to England to take music lessons from him to perfect his guitar techniques in the late 60's / early 70's. They bonded and went touring together - at least on one occasion. This clip is from a half hour long - low budget - program in black and white that the NRK did with them. You will be able to find the whole program her on RU-vid - if you search a bit for it. Finn Kalvik later became a bit more POP oriented - but in his early days he was being for the most part considered a folk singer - and was one of those Norwegians that followed in the wake of the American and British wave of folk music. He was one of the best ones to create wonderful folk melodies - again, much in the same veine as Jansch. But he always recorded songs with Norwegian lyrics. Set melodies to poems and such. Terje Rypdal is also a Norwegian - but a totally different type. Rypdal started out as a dance band artist on the electric solo guitar in a band called The Vanguards - and later evolved into more serious and avantgarde music - such as modern jazz and more funky stuff.
+Stefan S Thanks for the link. Just watching it now. A wonderful time piece. I really like the Norwegian guys voice and his singing in his native tongue. Bert is fantastic here, simply a marvel to watch. Thanks again. Made my night.
Jimmy Page tributes not only the original artist but also the experienced listeners with his cryptic credits. He calls his version of this "Black Mountain Side".
Herbert From Itally Perhaps Jimbob etched 'Trad Arr: Bert Jansch' high up on the bark of a old Willow somewhere within the grounds of his rolling Hertfordshire estate. 'Cos folks have searched high & low for the appropriate credit to Bert & it's ain't nowhere to be found.
rhymeocerous Not forgetting A.L. Lloyd who taught it to Anne Briggs who taught the song to Bert and of course the rest is history. I'm not even going to mention Jimmy Page...Damn!
+rhymeocerous It's hard this. Jimmy is not disguising what he applied to Led Zeppelin. I mean this, "You Need Love", "The Hunter" and "Bring It All Home" are obvious. There are existing some naughty thefts like "The Waggonars Lad" however.
MrACangusyoungDC The Waggoner's Lad...Bron Y'aur Stomp? Jimmy is a musical magpie for sure, but also a great musician, there's no taking that away from him.
Anne Briggs introduced the song to Bert Jansch, who developed the guitar arrangement (in collaboration with Briggs) and his version was heard by Al Stewart, who passed it to Jimmy Page. Story here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Down_by_Blackwaterside#Comparisons_with_.22Black_Mountain_Side.22
The tune is traditional but, clearly, the arrangement is Jansch's. Page did little more than swap the order of the sections; it's Zeppelin's most blatant rip-off.
Anne Briggs’s arrangement, while haunting and beautiful, is just a little bit more than strumming a D chord. There is no way in Hell that Page wrote Blackmountainside just from hearing Briggs play it in folk clubs as he once claimed. Jansch’s guitar arrangement is the masterpiece - and it is that which Plaige shamelessly copied.
Bert Jansch credited the song as "traditional" as did Page. Yet Jansch didn't write or compose this did he? It would be fair to say Page liked the direction Jansch took of this very old folk song that dates back to the 1800's (see "the false young man"). So page based his version on Jansch's. While there is definitely there is some arrogance on Page's part, but was Page supposed to credit Jansch for a song not his? Clapton has admitted to "totally ripping off Stairway for his "Let it Grow" no credits to Page. And before you talk about Spirit you might want to look up Davey Graha...no wait look up, no wait go back, no wait, go back... almost 300+ years to Sonata di Chittarra, e Violino, con il suo Basso Continuo,” as composed in 1659, and has been ia part of the public domain. Free Pass for Clapton right? Back to BlackWaterSide: Recording wise, you can go back to 1952 when Mary Doran was recorded playing it, During the same recording sessions her husband Paddy Doran and Winnie Ryan performed versions of the song. Mary Doran's version was taught to the singer Anne Briggs by A. L. Lloyd. Anne Briggs in turn taught it to singer/guitarist Bert Jansch who put his take on it and credited it "traditional" Page isn't guiltless but he probably wasn't thinking "ripping off" anymore than Clapton who also has been greatly "inspired" by others. It sure would have been much cooler if alll these great songs had been credited to the proper degree, because really; who would have ever heard of so many of these great songs if it weren't for Page? PS, Who knows how much influence was strictly Page's as to the credits? I'll bet Mr. Grant could answer if he were here. Cheers!
Bert Jansch did 'compose' this even though it's traditional. The melody, progression and rhythms of Black Mountain Side were all taken straight from Bert Jansch's arrangement but Jansch plays it in Drop D on the 3th fret while Jimmy Page plays it in Db Ab Db Gb Ab Db tuning and also took the riff from Davey Graham's arrangement of She Moved Through the Fair so he kind of made something from both songs. When Page performs it live he takes even more Davey Graham riffs and also plays Bert Jansch's ending that is completely original to Bert. Does he deserve to credit Bert Jansch? Maybe maybe not, if not then he's definitely right on the line. There's no point in mentioning other previous recordings unless you're suggesting Bert Jansch took someone else's arrangement similar to Page taking his which is bullshit. People take other people's riffs all the time but there's a lot to consider in each case, the fact is that almost the entirety of Black Mountain Side is taken from Black Waterside, it's not like Page just took one riff thats a small part of a bigger song. The only people Page introduced to Jansch are stubborn old heads that don't know anything outside of well known classic rock, most folk fans are aware of Bert Jansch. I suppose his playing the Isle of Wight festival and Carnegie hall with his band Pentangle is all attributed to Jimmy Page? Also who is Mr. Grant???
You're missing the crux of this - though the melody and lyrics were indeed traditional, Jansch's guitar arrangement with all the associated bends, hammer-ons & that unmistakable descending riff was completely his alone. Hence he correctly credits the track as Trad.Arr: Jansch. What came before is irrelevant in that context.
