Since the discussion came up during a stream, I decided to rank all Dockyard ships from F to S. Discord: / discord Stream: / flamuu Insta: / flamugram Twitter: / flamuchz
As always, you're more than welcome to explain how my opinion actually sucks! :D Twitter: twitter.com/flamuchz Discord: discord.gg/Flamu Stream: www.twitch.tv/flamuu Insta: instagram.com/flamugram/
The real problem with dockyard ships is they are really well balanced. Meaning there is no reason to play them over any other tech tree or premium ship. Everyone complains about power creep, but everyone wants to play the most OP ships, and only the most OP ships. They are, what they are. Half the value of the dockyard event is the rewards earned along the way. Especially the steel.
ZF-6 is one of my favourite ships, but I definitely see why many see it as not that good. It gives you insane damage output against other DD's, but utilizing that output to its fullest is a bit challenging and the ship gets punished hard for mistakes. Using the ship well requires awareness, hands, and good shell selection skill. But make no mistake, you can totally shit on some Kitakazes and Groningens who think they can just simply outgun you if you know what you're doing. Also, the torps might be only 8 km, but they are Kleber torps and all 8 can be launched on the same side, on a ship with 5.8 km concealment, all that with 90 s reload. The launch angles are of course nowhere near Kleber or Mogador levels, but you can do some really nasty things with them, especially if you are being pushed into.
I like De 7 Provincien. This ship has fairly accurate guns, a narrow hull, good maneuverability, and good speed due to the booster. It's harder to get rid of than it seems at first glance
someone else made the tier list template on tier maker and used icons without name if you want to have names, you need to make a template yourself with the icons next time
@@aretiredsubberl7036 it certainly comes as passive aggressive. But it's a fact, flamu cannot put the name on the icons unless someone else or himself makes a new one
You should try playing ZF-6 in EU Silver, it had carried me there even more than the Black (Black issue being the slow torps being useless vs hydro ships thus kind of relegating her to a strict contesting DD). She can kill a Black in an entire MBRB usage (in the time it takes the guy to turn around and if he lives he has to run away to avoid getting decimated inside smoke) and despite the short range of the torps, their high damage gives her a lot of utility. Her two main weaknessess being hydro DDs and radar cruisers, for everything else she is just a monster.
One thing going for Puerto Rico is that it's a monster in brawls. Can't be cit, 12 American barrels into someone's broadside makes you feel like you're in a BB, and it's _reasonably_ tanky in smaller skirmishes. I still wouldn't take it over Alaska in randoms, though. Having 12 guns doesn't make up for the things it trades away.
Man, he's really sleeping on the D7P. That thing open-waters with the best of them and the AA is easily the best performer at T8. I have more plane kills in that thing than any other ship, mostly thanks to all the 2 CV games.
Hizen not only does not have Izumo pen on the same guns, but she has 1.7 Sigma compared to Izumos 2.0, so her accuracy is on par with Nagato. Having played the ship myself, I can sail full broadside to an Enemy Hizen and not even have a worry in the world as the shells are most likely going to only Straddle you ship instead of actually hitting. Its no wonder Little White mouse in her review of the ship loathed the accuracy. Hizen got more Downsides then she got upsides.
Daisen should be better then Hizen since it can go 38 knots, has 16 torpedoes with good forward angles and has access to a unique spotting plane that hovers for 4 minutes each. And has actual Izumo guns and good firing angles with good sigma. So at least unlike Hizen it does punish at ranges
we´re currently using D7P in ranked in CB and apparently its pretty effective (havent played it myself) - deals pretty good damage, can dislodge borodinos, baltimores, congresses and shit from their stationary radar positions but is also great at kiting because of the heal and speed. what you didnt mention is that it has pretty insane shell velocity, and whilte its DPM might not be the best it had very good reload - it can catch DDs pretty well then again, its clan battles so... probably wouldnt wanna play it in randoms i guess.. but it has its strenghts that can be utilized
For the Japanese ships: Hizen is D tier, with her poor armour, one less heal, mediocre AP (inbetween Amagi's and Izumo's) with mediocre accuracy and overall nothing interesting going for her. Daisen is a low B tier, with her 40 knots speed (with brisk) and Izumo guns. Her concealment is only average, but it's good enough to reposition quickly and blap broadsides, or ambush a potato and torp + shoot it from point blank. Hizen is a boring mediocre snorefest, Daisen doesn't perform much better, but at least she can be very fun. In the list at the bottom, but not evaluated: Yahagi is one of the worst Japanese premiums. Low D tier, if not F. In competition with Katori, Ishizuchi, Azuma and now the premium version of Takahashi. Her only good part is how she looks gorgeous. And I very like this ship, despite all this.... Being tier II, Tachibana is a bit difficult to judge. Almost anything can work fantastic at this low tier. I'd say good, because she looks cute and is very plesant to sail? People play Shimakaze because she's a fun torpedo DD, despite being sub-par. I suppose. I have no idea why people play Azuma or Yoshino though. Especially Azuma. A Japanese cruiser with no torpedo? What heresy is this???
Azuma is quite good in the new high tier operations. I took her out recently and got Newport (the one all the reds charge right at you). Azuma HE smashes even superships. Plus positioning to get a shot at broadsides the AP is effective. I took 108k off Preussen that way. That was a 400k damage game and I wasn't even top of the team. Asia server high tier ops is feast or famine - you often get a team full of specialists. About as often as the team of window lickers. But yeah, Azuma in randoms is just meh. Especially when they are shooting at you.
Keep in mind Odin also has lower acceleration than most BBs, so even if you dodge 1 or 2 torp volleys or are down to 15knots and are a sitting duck. Try reversing in that thing, its pain.
I love my ZF-6 (I think this should be A+ personally). That and Wisconsin are the two dockyard highlights for me. I'm annoyed I missed out on Michelangelo - hopefully it makes a return at some point.
while Renown 44 is a Renown with better AA you have to keep in mind that this ship is Tier 7. Same Tier as Rooke California has a simmilar problem. You have an even better sigma than the Arizona and better secondaries and AA but you are now Tier 7
Hizen is absolute garbage, They need to buff that ship. I would put it in D tier, Only reason not to put it in F is because at least it's a premium ship otherwise it belongs there. I've never had a good game in that trash ship, They should at least reduce the reload by 5 seconds to actually give it a chance because you always get uptiered.
ZF6 was a French DD but with German guns. Yet it still keeps the reload boost and drops the hydro. It's kind of not that maneuverable. Z46 is better in many aspects. I see a LOT of Schroeders in Ranked, they seem to perform very well if not excellently.
being a beast when you´re top tier isnt hard. being good while playing against lower tier ships which have significantly worse armor than you (because of the spike in armor at T8) isnt something that makes a ship good. also how exactly is it a beast? it has 3+1 secondaries per side, shitty scharnhorst guns and no HP. just play a tirpitz, it does just about everything better - and thats not even a ship thats particularly well known for its power at T8
It's still less of an issue so much as having no damn hp to trade coupled with guns that aren't really a noticable upgrade over Scharnhorst. Hell if Scharnhorst '43 was a t8 ship it would still probably be better than Odin.
@@Arthion Yeah, clearly. The evolution of firepower, whether at the main or secondary battery level is not noticeable. And the ps... Yeah. Brandenburg has a more reliable main battery, better secondaries, speed and armor at least.
On a sidenote, anyone know why incomparable shells are extremely muffled? It is so sad I can't appreciate the sound of the guns, this is only on these shiki-caliber guns & its been the case for months
i mean... again... hizen at least has some overmatch and an average HP pool for its tier. odin has neither. odin has 3+1 secondary turrets per side, shitty scharnhorst guns and literally less HP than some T8 battlecruisers.. so..
@@Lily-D1215 The game may suggest a secondary build for Odin, but I built my Odin using the tank build. I then play my Odin as a Battlecruiser, and it works, for the most part, rather well. Odin also doesn't use Scharnhorst's 283mm guns, it uses Agir's 305mm guns but with a 23s reload. Hizen on the other hand, is a giant turd. I had a game about 2 months ago where I took my Hizen out for a spin. I used islands for cover to move up. Thinking I was safe, I slowed down and opened fire. Got spotted, so I started accelerating. Unknown to me, a unspotted UU Golden Leeuw dropped all 3 of their Airstrikes on me. Between Hizen's typical BB sluggish acceleration and 32mm deck armour, I was smashed for about 60% of my hp. Their teammates then sent me back to port about 30 seconds later. Hizen is rather poorly armoured, has an average hp pool, poor concealment and speed - even by BB standards and crappy guns. Its 38s reload is practically forever, its 45s turret traverse is sluggish, the horizontal dispersion is decent but has terrible vertical dispersion. Take all those gun attributes, add in IJN's wonky dispersion ellipse and below average Sigma of 1.7 and Hizen makes for a miserable experience.
De zeven is the best damage farming cruiser at t8, which immediately makes it a great ship for a good player. If you try to "run down" a de zeven in cruiser or BB, you just get abused by its bombs if the player has hands
Schroder: - Dinky AP shells which lack penetration - Dinky HE shells which lack fire chance - Secondaries which lack improved damage and fire chance even when compared to Michelangelo - Terrible AA with no option to swap Hydro for DFAA - No torpedo tubes unlike the original Zenker 1928 battlecruiser design which Schroder is based on Puerto Rico: - Lacks proper dispersion - Lacks proper maneuverability - Lacks proper survivability - Lacks proper radar
I have zero issues hitting targets in the Marlborough. 16 guns, decent fire chance, it's definitely better played kiting mid-range tossing HE. Does hate being hit by SAP and 18" AP, but can can recover nigh on 87k health with heal, good concealment at 12km, decent rudder shift down to 13 secs. I got a decent WR in her, 1981 avg XP, and just shy of 91k dmg per random battle over 166 games. Nothing special, but I think a player like me getting those numbers gives it a better shout than F tier.
Marl's issue is she has the unholy combo of godawful firing angles + super fragile and farmable. In GK's case, when she turns out she eats 30000 full pens, in Marl's case she gets cit. And like GK, Marl only provides average firepower rather than anything good to make up for it, which makes her another "glass cannon without the cannon part". Basically, Marl is a fragile 8-gun ship (half your firepower is locked away by bad angles), sorta like Viribus Unitis, except somehow way worse than having T3 healthpool at T5.
Being able to make a bad ship workable isn't a merit on the ship, it's a merit on the player. Imagine what kinds of results you'd be getting putting with this kinda gusto on a ship package that ISN'T designed to make the enemy team feel like their strong
@@alexsieh3089 Considering the NA server average is 70k for the Marl, with only the Los Andes (low sample pool) averaging higher in ANY T9 BB, I'd say it isn't bad.
