Those 'warranty void if removed' stickers are illegal, says the FTC. ... “Unless warrantors provide the parts or services for free or receive a waiver from the FTC, such statements generally are prohibited by the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act, a law that governs consumer product warranties,” the Commission noted Under the 1975 Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act, the Feds mandated that you can open your electronics without voiding the warranty, regardless of what the language of your warranty says
Yes those stickers are illegal. Also, failing to honor warranty due to modification that couldn't have caused the issue is illegal. Meaning if I buy a Dell PC, upgrade the ram, and the psu dies they still have to honor the warranty, regardless of "no modifications" agreements. Actually getting them to honor this law may be a challenge.
FYI...voiding a warranty based on a sticker is actually illegal in the U.S., since 1975. The manufacturer can't hold it against you for opening the case.
@@DavidPozEnergy I too thought the same. Manufacturers have gone out of their way to make everyone think they can void your warranty over a sticker. I'm sure it saves them a ton of $$$.
The thing I love about it most? You can use it without a battery! :) If you can test it running off your solar without a battery that would be awesome, thanks!
What I find missing in all these inverter reviews and evaluations is no one seems to be technical enough to evaluate the circuitry or the build quality and that’s what this really comes down to. A poor design is going to fail at some point and some of these units seem to be designed far more thoughtfully than others. The components used in the assembly and layout are often overlooked. Measuring voltage, load, waveform etc. is really not getting to the root of these inverters.
I own one. Forms a part of my 12X330 wp installation, including 2,4 kwh pylontech lytium battery, functions flawlessly... No, I'm not sponsored, just a satified customer from Romania
I don't know whole lot about solar but basically he said this inverter is only able to power up a water heater. I don't know but that doesn't sound like a whole lot. Is 5kilowatts alot of power? I mean spending $900 not cheap.
This is Growatt you're talking about. They make world class inverters and they are among the top 10 inverter suppliers in the world with less than 2% failure rate. I have been using one of their inverter for over a year now and I have been using the 5000 es model for a couple of months now.
I understand as per the manual there are priorities can be set for charging the batteries (solar, utility) and priorities can be set for AC output (solar, batteries, utility). Is there any priority can be configured with AC output over charging? In example, if I have 4000w of PV at peak hours and batteries are drained, at the same time I have high consumption of 3500w for households. Will the inverter provide with 3500w from PV and keeps only 500w for charging the batteries? Or charge the batteries with 4000w and provides the household with 500w from PV and 3500w from utility if SUB priority was selected as “Output source priority”
David, whats your opinion about the neutral+ground bonding issue for European 230v inverters (and the solution) mentioned in this video? ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-gQ4NF9n0UxE.html
Lower cost when everything is combined in one unit. However if any one part fails then you have to replace the whole unit. Or send it in for repair. With separate units, you only have to replace the failed unit.
If you have multiple units in parallel - which is comparatively affordable - then you can continue running at partial capacity while you wait for servicing. A pair of 5kW inverters would make a fairly capable and robust system. Three units would be quite a beast. 🤓🤔🤷♂️
Quite the same thing : Sorotec revo series 5.5 kw It's High frequency ... Unfortunately I "break" 2 Sorotec Revo series 5.5 kw : One cause of the max Solar input array ... ( 4000 wpeak ) One cause of an undetected weak wet short-circuit in between both phase ( neutral-phase-earth ) My set up cannot detect it cause when you're running on solar you got no "back point" to mass or "earth" ... Automatic switching between mass "regime" is not a "built in" to these models ... So all the ground "security" systems from usual "grid" were inefficient ... You ought to built up a neutral to ground automatically swichable connection for these that works only with non-connected to ground solar panels . Got a Mpp pip 7048 max ... Running quite good so far with 2 times 7 panels string south oriented on one "side" And one 7 panel string west oriented onto the other .... I would have a 8048 max ... If and only import taxes weren't that kind an help thoses who gather this kind a material which is not produced at all in that "great" ... Union !!! Dare, care, ride safe, clean, have fun ... From France, with .
Build looks very similar to MPPSolar and their mainland counterparts. They are what they are but to compare them to victron is like comparing a low end Volkswagen to an High end Audi. Both should get you where you want to go though. It's not going to be approved for grid connection either, so your excess power is wasted (nobody really cares about the grid anyway)
I'm trying to build an off-grid generator for my RV for when I boondock. (Think Inergy/GoalZero/PointZero but with more capacity.) Will the 24v inverter be sufficient?
A 24V is harder to connect to AC then if you use a 12V, right ? Do these only work with Roof Solars or 2-4 individual stand up ones ? Also, it comes with a battery ? Do you add an additional one like a lithium to make it last longer ? I'm looking at Solar Hybid inverters but nothing's going on my roof........ I've called Electricians, contractors and nobody can answer this ......
Dave please check out the Delta H6 off grid inverter without batteries also sold by signature solar for $549 split phase 120 / 240 . I am installing this off grid without batteries for daytime use. please check it out and do a video on it thanks Gary
I’ve been looking at this inverter as well. It says in the manual that it has a power saving mode. This is mentioned in the screen display section of the manual. It also says in the specs that it has a no load draw of 60w. That is a lot and probably a deal breaker for my scenario. Would be great to see David’s results
I've got mine this week! When it is on, without batteries, connected to the grid, connected to the PV array and the loads disconnected, the clamp meter on the AC-in measures almost 4 amps. What could be the cause? (my grid is 220v and 50Hz)
The Gyll battery bms will not communicate with the GroWatt. I have both, my GroWatt is 48v 3kw, and purchased the Gyll using David’s coupon code. I talked with Signature Solar and they are in the process of making a new bms that will communicate with the GroWatt. So it’s in the works.
Axpert Voltronic VM III 5k is cheaper even . 2 x MPPT (80A) 120...450V, DC charger (60A), ON/OFF grid modes, USB, Bluetooth, lot of BMS/Lithium models communication. 5000w nominal , 9kw peak .... 675€ VAT included ... 800$ USA . Widely used in spain, lot of succesfull reports . That beats the Growatt option here. No paralel option in this model.
its a heavy duty inverter we are using here in pakistan, connected with solars and batteries and running all of the home load without any break. they are offering 5 year warranty. and its quite cheap for US market.
The truth is, this was on alibaba for years now and was always the same price. And there are many good ones there as well, just no one wants to review any.
Hummm, I'm 🤔why?? I was thinking the same, this is the 1st time I've even been introduced to this model! Need to check with Will also on this! This guy has acquired a new sub with me!!
check out all the MPPSolar vids, that's where you will see many installs, the Taiwanese came up with these "hybrid" high frequency inverters, all others are OEM'd or copied, various build qualities, and options, but all them the same, a bunch of MOSFETs. Not UL Certified, Not NEC Compliant, absolutely not IEEE 1547 compliant. Won't pass inspection for occupancy permit, no licenced master electrician is gonna touch it, it won't be allowed grid interconnection, doing so is potentially felonious, Electrical Provider will not authorize netmetering for excess generation buyback.Finally, connection to the grid is very likely to create suspicious enough consumption patterns at the meter to trigger a fraud investigation you really don't want so be very careful. That being said I hypothetically would absolutely love mine if I had one.
These units are pretty reliable. I have a similar 5kw one that I’ve been using for the last 2 years running non stop with zero issues. It’s not the same brand but has similar settings and display and is build by VoltronicPower.
@@Ayzee5363 How do you clean yours? I didn't realize these could be opened up or cleaned? Or do you just shoot compressed air (not canned) into it? Thanks!
Last year I bought the MPP GK5048, a similar product to the Growatt, from our friends in Taiwan at MPP Solar, for around $600 and used a $150 120/240 single phase 3000W transformer from Amazon to run a pair of dehumidifiers in my basement. Trying to use the same transformer to step up from 120 to 240 for the AC input worked but it was very loud. I'm looking forward to getting my pair of MPP LV6548 next week (after waiting a month for them to be cleared by customs) 120v input each, paired for split phase operation. If you buy on Ebay direct from MPP, shipping from Taiwan using DHL arrives much faster. I'm very much looking forward to the review of the Solar Edge Auto transformer. It was something I considered getting, as I'm sure it beats the tar out of what I'm using currently (and may still use for something in the future....)
They are Toroid Coils. A toroid is a coil of insulated or enameled wire wound on a donut-shaped form made of powdered iron. A toroid is used as an inductor in electronic circuits, especially at low frequencies where comparatively large inductances are necessary.
The inner components (out outer fittings) look almost exactly like the MPP_Solar brand I had apart one day (was broken) so Im guessing they both made by the same company just different brands.
David! Thank you, I'm as excited as you are to find a great company like signature solar, with reasonable priced products. That inverter/battery system might just be the defining piece of the puzzle for many of us. Thank you, can't wait until your next test video.
I have a MPP Solar 5kva PIP5048MK unit that looks exactly like the Growatt Unit. Even the instruction book is printed exactly the same. Coincidence? I have been running the MPP Solar for over a year now with no hiccups. We run welders and aircons off it without a problem
I overload it in the part 2 video about this inverter. It ran at 110% before shutting down, so I was pretty happy with that. Some people don't like the display, but I'm happy they have one. Some inverters don't have displays or you have to buy it separate. My biggest gripe is the fans are loud. I film in my garage and have to shut the inverters off while filming. Otherwise, it does exactly what it says it should do.
In the absence of Part 2 😀 I decided to bite the bullet an try to purchase one of these in the UK. The irony, a decent 5kW 230V inverter and Growatt won't sell me one in the UK, despite there being many sellers in the USA. They say they don't have certification and when I said I didn't care, their response and I quote this verbatim, "We do not offer it into UK market. It is mainly for African countries. For UK Market we only sell premium products."
Hahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa. I am African, and I am busy looking for Victron Easysolar, having chosen this over Growatt. The worrying thing for me with Growatt is the number of burn and smoke reports out there. This response you got from them is quite telling though.
It's my understanding that US law prohibits companies from voiding your warranty for opening up the unit, but not from scaring you into not opening up the unit by threatening to void the warranty. I have lost the link to the specific code, but anyone can look it up for their locale.
I was looking at their 12k inverter recently. While the price is outstanding there are a couple items that bother me. Their max efficiency is rated at only 88% compared to say your Sunny Islands at 95% plus. Also the idle usage is near 200 watts on the 12k inverter. That seems like a lot. If you can fit it in, please address those specs on your 5kw inverter. Thanks David.
Thanks for the comment. It's great to hear what people want to see. I'll include this in the next video. I'm especially interested in the idle watts for myself.
Hi John Stafford II, I watched and enjoyed Average Joes video testing his 12kw LF inverter. You are referring to the "Power Saver" mode. When the inverter was ON, but no load (idle) it drew 161 watts.
Crazy how quickly the market has changed and prices have fallen. I'm looking at my Schneider electric 3200watt inverter. For the price of that thing, I could have gotten 2 of these Growatts with a transformer! Looking forward to your upcoming videos. Hopefully this trend in solar will continue!
I would love to see a test of the the parasitic load on the whole unit with and without the invert active- what is the current draw from the batteries when the unit is in standby (switch off, but batteries connected) vs power-saving (power-saving setting enabled, switch on, but no AC load connected) vs inverter on with no load (power-saving setting disabled, switch on, no AC load)?
70 watts idle load I hope they improve on that in the future.i bought one just for the charge contol I lose a third of my PV input from parasitic loss going back to my trace 5548 and a low consumption charge contoller. Like to find out what growatt charge controller stand alone unit consumes
Just know that a matched split phase transformer is going to cost you about $300 more. It's still a decent price, but not as much of a "great value" when you figure that into the cost.
Thanks for doing this great review. I’m still on the fence regarding which inverter, solar charge controller, and panels to get and use with my GYLL 6 pack, so your review is really timely. Anxious to see the upcoming videos where you try the transformer too.
9:00 I have seen a lot of failed CapXon capacitors in computer power supplies, motherboards, and monitors. Hopefully those bigger ones are better. I have noticed that the bigger ones in LCD/LED TVs are not the failure point. Thumbs up.
If you live in America, you can't void your warranty by removing a cover. Many manufacturers put it on their products, but that is mainly for other countries. It would be illegal to enforce here. Look up "1975 Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act warranty void if removed stickers" www.ftc.gov/news-events/press-releases/2018/04/ftc-staff-warns-companies-it-illegal-condition-warranty-coverage
Nice. Single string up to 400V might be around 13 average panels. If more panels are paralleled then current limit might be a concern, although maybe 16 or so panels is the limit due to the 5Kw limit. With more videos coming I'd also be interested in the AC input testing as well. I assume it frequency and phase syncs to the AC input, if present. If these are then paralleled, let's say 2 units, and one has AC input, then both units should sync with each other and the AC input gong into one of the units. I'm asking because this would be a great solution for a solar car port I'm constructing that is not on my house system. It's standalone and will comprise 36 panels equating to about 10kW. The single appliance connected to the AC out will be a 240V car charger. When not charging the car, I want to fill the batteries. Yes, this will result in power sometimes being thrown away, but I live in California, and the utilities have gotten very negative about more daytime power back feeding to the grid.
Love your vids David! I’m gonna buy 2 Lifepo4 batteries in parallel that gonna be charged by solar and main power, the max output of each is 6KW but the recommended is 4KW. Shall i get 2 two SPA5000es inverters connected in parallel or a bigger single unit? And which one do you recommend from Growatt?
Growatt just came out with new batteryless model. Off grid. Looking forward to seeing more reviews on that one. Thanks for your videos david. Also looking forward to the autotransformer video.
@Signature Solar wow batteryless is cool i wander if the adding of the tranny adds the flux amps for starting big motor type loads kinda like low frq inverters
@Signature Solar Question , What is the grid line in for grid support for the 240 volt only model ? Does this have grid support feature the 3k has ? Thanks !
so could I run an AC line into this, then put a subpanel on the AC output for a few key circuits? (i.e. fridge, oil boiler, office computers, etc). Sounds like in theory those circuits should only pull power from the grid if the solar cannot keep up with charging the connected battery, correct?
As a few others have said. Really interested in how it performs with the transformer. You have had problems with high frequency inverters before starting induction loads like your miter saw. Also try with a big shop vacuum ad the universal motors are notoriously inefficient. Your transformer might give it enough of a "flywheel effect" to ride through.
We’re having issues now. With pass thru power. Fried a transformer. No problems until we added batteries and paralleled two. Now the grid assist isn’t possible. We saw where a grounding issue inside is problem being tied to the neutral. We’re getting an error 8. Frustrating.
Would you recommend Growatt as a good solid entry level inverter? I'm liking what I been seeing, just overwhelmed at so many selections and mixed reviews. I've never seen a negative video review of the Growatt
Hi david .... Yes we are using such all in 1 packages that even have grid feeding capabilities in range of 600$ to 700$ .... Here in Pakistan and these things do work great
I bought this device and i am not happy with it, do not spend your hard earned money on this, bought 10kw battery for power outage emergency they say you may not store more that 60% mean only 6kw unless you want to damage your inverter also it takes whole minute to activate your battery, i should have bought from another well known brand you don’t have control over a stuff you bought
Hi, is it possible to use this inverter with a battery and also conected on grid(ac input) but use the grid only when the battery is low and never inject back the power into that grid? because in my country if you inject to much back in the grid the electricity company is outta control and can decide put you to pay for that instead of paying you for the power you produce because you are using their infrastructure to much and the goverment allow them to do so. and i don't want to inject but i want to use power from the grid just in case i run low on battery. thank you
In addition let me attach a few more questions here to @DavidPoz and hopefully he can handle them collectively: 1. Hopefully if it isn't too much to ask, you could do an efficiency load test across 1kw to 5kw (in 5 steps would especially really like to see efficiency of different motor loads since most manufacturers rate their efficiencies on non-motor simple resistive loads instead of the more dodgy & trocky inductive motor loads) so you don't really get the whole picture. 2. Probably do an idle test no load dc power draw. 3. Probably do a AC charger power draw when charging the batteries. 4. Inform whether it has a power saver function to reduce night battery drain when it senses loads below X number of watts. 5. How quick is the transition from AC to DC and back in the event a power outage occurs (will you notice a startling flicker/stutter of equipment or is it seamless in transition performance?)
I wonder about if there is Radio Frequency Interference (RFI) from this, as many inverters produce RFI which interferes with Ham, Shortwave, FM radio & sometimes televison reception. I this it would be a good idea to use a shortwave radio to listen for the repetitive "birdies" as you tune through the bands. When you hear one (high noise static), turn off the source (inverter) & see if the RFI goes away. RFI is becoming a huge problem in our homes as wall warts (phone chargers, ac adapters, for Wi-Fi, etc.) don't really pass FCC part 15 requirements & create more & more hash. Also David, when you checked to see if that large gauge wire (4/0 ?) Would fit & it didn't; I think if you remove the plastic sleeve from the case, slip it over the wire then insert it, that it should fit... WARNING, don't push it in & lock it until you're ready to do so, as it will be tough getting it unlocked. They should install cable clamps with heavy duty rubber grommets for strain relief.
Nice job on the review David. Looking forward to further testing. Nice unit for sure. My gut tells me it won't handle a lot of in-rush as there is no real "mass" in the transformers. Either way, if they built enough quality into it, it could handle resistance loads and inverter motors for years to come
Hi Mark, I'm worried about the exact same thing. You know I love to test with my air compressor and miter saw. That will be coming. I don't know if they have as much inrush as your lift?
MPP SOLAR has also offers in that price segment which excells the Growatt that i have here ... The MPP Solar offers up to 10 kWP of solar power and a 5 kW inverter. That will fit far better to the most areas except southern california and deserts with 300 sunny days. If you you have cast and clouds and short daylight time in winter you will later want to have 10 kW just to get the batteries charged during winter ... and then the key question will be how much kWP does this unit support: 10 kWP will be king ... future proof The core question is the supply chain ... and MPP Solar is from TAIWAN while Growatt is from chinese ... and you know about the BAN of chineses products that are getting in the american infrastructure. MPP Solar has a better support than Growatt at least here in Europe where they had closed their domestic office ... just abandoned when the last employee had vanished, disappeared. MPP sends you in case of damage a simple repair board in exchange quickly from TAiWAN direct from the manufacturer, not a dealer.
Easun makes the same (only 5500 w PV) for half the price... But not the most serious company. Growatt uses, I think (the thing has to be verified) a Voltron base, as Easun.
This is nice BUT if the converter,breaker or the inverter break down then the whole thing is also broken, Its wise to have them apart so that if one breakdown you wont worry.
You guys have been wonderful I cannot tell you how much I’ve learned from you (David and all the commentators)I Think I am ready to set up my 1st system however I want all to know that signature solar is not honoring the discount as mentioned I ordered today 12,000 Kw growatt inverter and 48 V lithium battery but they told me “no more discount “ and as far I’m concern they don’t seem to be as friendly as advertised
Well i again see cheap capacitors there..and a lot of cable mess..so maybe that is reason why it is so cheap..if they would used better quality ones it would cost more but not so much more i would say..also those +- terminals looks a bit cheap to me..5kW ..maybe but still on cheap side..I would say whole inverter looks like cheap version on another side mine 5kW inverter just inverter alone cost double of this inverter..so yes it is cheap one
David, nice videos from you! This inverter seems to be the same as the MPP solar from Taiwan. I have the 4048 MS and has been running 24/7 since June 2017 without a glitch. Interesting to see Growatt put its label on this product. Makes me happy :)
When I hook up the transformer I plan to check idle watts with, and without, the transformer. When I had my Aims inverter it idled about 66 watts. I love comparing the idle watts. Sometimes it can add up to a lot.
hey david very informative video I am interested in buying this inverter. how many ohms resistor should I buy for pre charging the resistor. thanks for the reply and keep up the good work
I think I was using a 10 ohm resistor in the video. amzn.to/3cIIhMu However, the exact ohm doesn't matter very much. Also, I learned after this video, that the batteries I'm using have a pre-charge resistor built in. I could have just wired it and turned on the battery. signaturesolar.com/eg4-lifepower4-lithium-battery-48v-100ah/?ref=4_rHcgZ9x-TiF-
This is really exciting, regretting buying a Schneider 2524 now for my 24V Gyll batts. Can't wait to see the final installation. Keep up the great work!
Hello David, Would this Growatt work with one 5kw Lifepower4 Gyll battery like you would use a gas generator or a Bluetti Ac200P in a temporary grid down situation or would Growatt use too much latent energy just being turned on for such a small battery bank to work? For this question, let's say I have three 350 watt solar panels to keep this system charged up with. Is this a stupid idea or could it work?
Great question. The Gyll battery is max 100 amps continuous. Most of the time the battery will be above 50v, like 50-54v. But if the battery dips below 50v, then you could potentially draw more than 100 amps with a 5000w inverter. (5000w/50v=100a) Not a problem most of the time, but potentially. To minimize the problem you could have the generator auto-start at 50v, or keep your loads to 4kw.
I was looking at the 12000 and was surprised to learn it weighs 165 lbs and has 2 large transformers inside, one for each leg of the 120. These things may actually be the real deal !
We are running 6 of them, 2 on a phase and in 2 months we've had 1 blown and then 2 weeks ago, 3. One on each phase. Its now 2 weeks later and still awaiting the fixed units. Seems like they dont like to be paired... Im renting from a company and they installed it, but it seems like these invertors are not up to the job
Indeed I recognize exactly the same components in it as my EAsun (which I bought on AliExpress). Also the manual is very similar. I use solar-sis to read out the the data, and this works also with many brands (so they share also a very similar firmware implementation). The data is put in an influx database and visualize with Grafana dashboards with graphs, gauges etc.
I saw this Growatt on Signature Solar's website when I was wondering about the GyLL battery after watching your video. So glad to see you reviewing it as I couldn't glean much info about it on their website. Be looking forward for the follow-up video, David!
