Best Way to Prime MDF Tabletop Terrain Without a Rattlecan! [Ep. 04]

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Testing to find out the best way to prime MDF tabletop terrain kits for painting if you can’t use rattlecan primer. 💥More below!⬇
I’m brand new to painting MDF terrain but I have a large collection of unpainted MDF terrain kits (of course - I’m a true collector)! I’ve heard from various people and internet gossip that painting MDF can be a pain and that priming MDF can sometimes fill in the laser cut details on tabletop MDF terrain kits.
I test five different techniques for priming and painting tabletop MDF terrain, specifically without the use of rattle can primer (because I live in an apartment and cannot use rattle can paint). These include airbrushing paint right onto raw MDF, airbrushing acrylic primer over the MDF, sealing the MDF with matte varnish before spraying primer and applying Modpodge as a sealant under the primer. We find some interesting results and I can happily say that none of these techniques actually erase or fill in any detail! That said, I think there is one best way to prime MDF terrain.
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30 сен 2024

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Комментарии : 86

@n2darkness Год назад

I find sealing cut or carved MDF edges with watered down (50/50) wood glue works very well. Sometimes a 2nd coat is necessary after a light sanding as MDF sucks it up like a sponge. It's cheap and very effective, followed up by a primer of your choice before paint.

@tabletopalchemy Год назад

Excellent suggestion.

@ginwilcox9555 Год назад

I've been waiting...and waiting to finally break down and buy an airbrush; happy to know that someone of your caliber uses one that doesn't cost me as much as my car payment. Great video!

@tabletopalchemy Год назад

Awesome! Yeah just get cheapie one and learn with that!

@daviddell7780 Год назад

Came on this vid by accident. I am not a table top what's it? Anyhoo I am a retired polisher (Spray painter french polisher) Working with MDF caught my attention, most , well 90% of kitchen cabinet doors are routed from MDF then passed to the polisher shop if painted polished hi gloss surface is the finnish as opposed to shit vinyl wrap!! Well to get to the main point - ok ok I'm getting there. We first would seal the cut fluffy sections and the main uncut board with one thing and one thing only...that is normal PVA wood glue thinned down with water. That's it. This gives you so many benefits, a seal coating. The fluffy fibre of cut MDF turns hard and is able to be finely sanded, zero detail is taken away and the process is cheap and fast. Oh one more thing...great adhesion for your next coating. Try it on your model buildings and I suggest anything your going to paint.

@tabletopalchemy Год назад

This sounds promising, thank you! I shall try it out!

@stevendorries Год назад

Yellow or white or does it not matter?

@daviddell7780 Год назад

@@stevendorries yellow or white what Steve? If you are talking about the PVA here in Australia I've only ever seen and used white. Hope that helps. PS the PVA to water ratio can be high in water. I wouldn't use any less than 50/50 at that ratio you're going to find it hard to sand the open MDF i.e. routed potentially fluffy. 60 to 70% water is fine. Sealed. Still sand able, still able to get a smooth finish.

@stevendorries Год назад

@@daviddell7780 yeah I was talking about the glue, yellow wood glue is slightly different than white wood glue, it has a few extra additives whereas white is just PVA

@daviddell7780 Год назад

@@stevendorries use white pva

@davidcashin1894 5 месяцев назад

What I love about TT Combat is those carboard building corner pieces that cover the wall joins.

@tabletopalchemy 5 месяцев назад

Those are pretty cool and some of the roofs made from same material!

@iliasmastoris529 Год назад

What you are described is 'sizing'. 'Back in the day' painters (artists, think Leonardo) would apply sizing to a canvas or linen the purpose of which was to (a) limit the absorption of the fabric, protect it from the corrosive effects of the paint, and to bring tension to the canvas (so that it would tighten like a drum). Traditionally, rabbit skin glue was used. My friends sometimes size with thinned down PVA glue on their terrain features. After which, you then apply your base coat. Historically, artists used gesso (Italian for chalk). Nowadays you can use primer. Of course, you can finish with a varnish.

@tabletopalchemy Год назад

This is highly informative, thank you! Ah, gesso! Had I remembered about that stuff I might have tried it too lol.

@houdini30031 Год назад

This. Many woodworkers 'size' their end grain wood joints with wood glue. Keeps the end grain from soaking up too much glue. I'll size mine with a thin layer of glue, let it dry a bit, then use more to glue the joint.

@jimdavis8391 Год назад

I prime MDF with watered-down pva glue, works fine for cabinetry.

@sirrathersplendid4825 Год назад

From what I’ve read, Mod Podge is simply PVA glue with additives that give it a slightly shiny finish. It works well as a final protective coat over most terrain projects. As an MDF primer I tend to use water-thinned PVA, as I really dislike the abrasive feel of raw MDF, and a few coats of paint aren’t enough to remove the roughness. Must try some water-thinned Mod Podge to see how it compares to ordinary PVA. The huge advantage of PVA as primer is that it adds strength to all the joints, and also fills many of the inevitable gaps, while adding considerable strength to your building.

@tabletopalchemy Год назад

This is quite true (adding strength). A lotta suggestions have been made for wood varnish type products and a friend of mine demonstrated it, it works really well but I can’t do products with fumes like that in the apt. Good luck with your testing!

@Cruznick06 Год назад

I find ph Neutral PVA glue to be better than ModPodge for this sort of application. ModPodge has a few issues I've run into: 1.) It can yellow over time if used as a top sealant. Especially if hit by UV light. This can take years, but I've had it happen with a few projects. 2.) It can remain tacky, especially the gloss version. 3.) It can have weird reactions with paints. This is anything thing I've noticed with older projects. Edit: I used a 3:1 (PVA glue:water) ratio and a brush-on application. I have not used it in an airbrush.

@robot7759 Год назад

Fine 😉

@benhayden9198 Год назад

Just found your RU-vid channel.....and loving it!!!! Keep on keeping on 🤟

@tabletopalchemy Год назад

Awesome, glad u dig it! 🤙

@spaeron Год назад

BIN or Zinseer shellac based primer thinned and cleaned up with denatured alcohol is my only goto for mdf. seals up end grain better than anything. super fast drying. 100% burn-in like a lacquer but multi coats aren't problematic for brushing. a dream to sand and can be taken up to a polished level fast if that's what you're after. i keep 2 airtight metal cans one for thinned primer a can to just toss the dirty brush into with a splash of denat. can be tinted or or even get clear which is sold as sanding sealer. a quick soak in the primer and its good to go. it $20 a gal. spray cans are available. it does have some stink and u need a booth if ur airbrushing for sure.

@tabletopalchemy Год назад

This sounds like the perfect solution but I unfortunately live in an apartment and have to work around fumes 😐 But I’ll keep this in mind for the future!

@jesterger Год назад

@@tabletopalchemy Zinsser 1-2-3 Latex Primer-Sealer, is a water based primer. It is quick drying, low VOC and even works on metal. It is my got to primer for everything. I worked in building maintenance for 25 years and never had a problem with using it.

@tabletopalchemy Год назад

Well, another product going on my list to check out, thanks!

@stevendorries Год назад

Do you use a 2lb cut for mdf the same as you would for solid wood or thinner?

@kristinaesposito8679 Год назад

Thanks for the video! My 12-year-old is really interested in miniatures and mocks. Can you recommend a good “beginner” kit/model?

@tabletopalchemy Год назад

Oh nice! If they want to start out with plastic model kits places like Hobby Lobby have some good starter kits. All depends on what kind of subject matter they like. If they want to try out miniature figures, a decent affordable brand of minis is North Star (I like the Frostgrave sets, they are fantasy genre and are made for that game but they can be used anywhere, you don’t have to play the game to work with the minis). There are tons of manufacturers out there, hopefully some more folks will see this comment and add some suggestions!

@kristinaesposito8679 Год назад

@@tabletopalchemy Thanks a lot! He loves anything WWII related, but has a broad interest in terrain and buildings in general.

@tabletopalchemy Год назад

Oh ok! I think North Star makes quite a variety of soldier type miniatures. Another game that has pretty cool smaller scale wwii vehicle kits is Bolt Action!

@kristinaesposito8679 Год назад

@@tabletopalchemy Thank you! I’ll search the interwebs for that brand. I really appreciate it!

@LathanM Год назад

I design and sell both MDF and birtch plywood kits and treat it like wood because well it is. Seal the kits with a standard brush/rub on wood sealer or sanding sealer. Poly or water-based doesn't matter. I prefer Minwax products as they are the most available and are cheap. The key is to make sure you hit the end grain as it can leach out into your topcoat over time. This is most true with whites and light grey. You will see a yellow cast shadow when this happens.

@tabletopalchemy Год назад

Ah, good suggestions, thank you!

@skizilla Год назад

Word, I use MDF as bases for modular scenery pieces on a slot car track and I hit them with one coat of sanding sealer before building on them, it keeps the MDF from swelling after the application skulpt-a-mold and stuff like that, and a little goes a LONG way.

@thomearle1294 Год назад

Nope, not boring. Actually well done. I liked it.

@kerilawrence2669 Год назад

Not a boring video at all and I am at the stage you were at at the start of the video. I've experimented with watered down emulsion paint as I was worried that acrylics would kill the detail - but not happy with the result at all. It might be time to get an air brush based on your experience. Oh, and your approach to your youtube channel and modelling is an honest breath of fresh air!

@tabletopalchemy Год назад

Right on, thank u! Yep I definitely am happy I got the airbrush. Even with a cheap airbrush you still gotta fork out for a compressor, but the compressor will work with any brushes you get in the future so there’s that. 🍻

@sebbychou Год назад

I also found that stylyrnez primer work well, and since they have a nice collection of colors they can do basecoats, unlike most other primers. Terrible experience with rattle can paints straight on mdf tho.

@BlackDouglas1000 Месяц назад

This is exactly what I needed to see. Thank you.

@tabletopalchemy Месяц назад

Awesome! 🍻

@theboredtrucker3898 Год назад

Just found this channel and while im loving the content i can't get something out of my head.... i feel like this is Neil Gaimans American brother who got into D&D instead of books.

@tabletopalchemy Год назад

Lol, that’s appropriate in only one sense - he got all the talent in the family 😂 My early 20s were filled with a lotta his and Clive Barker’s work (and William Gibson lol)

@johndavid2290 Год назад

Hes even got a cool name lol

@JohnMiller99 Год назад

you said "go paint something .." well I think I will😎

@tabletopalchemy Год назад

🍻!

@steampunk8036 Год назад

Brother, you crack my ass up! - Rick, USMC

@tabletopalchemy Год назад

🍻

@blazecorp Год назад

Not a bad video at all and informative. Consider me subscribed.

@tabletopalchemy Год назад

Consider me much obliged! 🍻

@lynnleigha580 Год назад

That's the bad thing about getting your product patented, you have to put out there exactly how you made it, and then someone else can come along and make the same thing, but change a couple of nonsense pieces and boom, before you know it, they're selling cheap knockoffs of your design/products

@tabletopalchemy Год назад

Yep constant risk everywhere - same with giving screenplays to producers lol!

@herbveitenhans3285 Год назад

Have you tried decanting the rattlecan paint?

@tabletopalchemy Год назад

I’ve done that in a shop environment but I wouldn’t use any kind of lacquer inside my apt, I have a difficult time with fumes that aren’t acrylic/water based 😐

@NoNamesLeft0102 Год назад

Best trick I've seen with Mod Podge has been to mix in a bit of black paint. Helps make it easier to see where you've applied it.

@tabletopalchemy Год назад

Definitely!

@jamesb.7859 4 месяца назад

Just FINE

@tabletopalchemy 3 месяца назад

😂🍻

@StoneCosta 8 месяцев назад

"But hopefully if you live in a space where you can't rattle can, and you've got a cheap airbrush, and you haven't worked with MDF terrain kits before..." That's me exactly and this video is perfect.

@tabletopalchemy 8 месяцев назад

Lol right on 🤙🍻

@mickk8519 Год назад

I've been painting, vanishing, shellacing, waxing, staining, polishing etc wood since we first had MDF in England around the mid 70's, my first job when I left school was as a sign writer. Anyway, obviously MDF and especially your models, won't, and shouldn't be exposed to outside weather conditions, but a lesson can be learnt from outside wood protection, which would be much better when applied for inside use. To cut a long story short, varnish is a top rank medium to use as a primer, especially as the primer for varnish, is varnish, and can be painted over if one changes ones mind for a finish. I've built a countless number of things out of MDF, and have found varnish to be one of the best primers/sealers for MDF. I have even built MDF desk tops with rounded raw edges, that have stood the test of time with just varnish on them. Therefore, for me, I feel you chose the best method of painting the model, although I would have personally used mat varnish for both coats.

@tabletopalchemy Год назад

Oh interesting! This is great to know, thanks!

@brianbrinegar6086 Год назад

Thank you for sharing!

@snorkherder Год назад

Nice, great experiment :)

@krzysztofmathews738 Год назад

Glad to see this comparison. I'm actually wondering if these observations hold true for dense chipboard style cardboard stock. I just laser cut some treads out of 2mm chipboard for a scratchbuild robot the other day, and am debating the best way to seal them for painting with acrylics. As regarding MDF, do you have any thoughts or suggestions for where folks might affordably purchase MDF sheets for laser cutting their own designs?

@tabletopalchemy Год назад

Oh hmm I don’t work with Mdf much, but I know home laser cutters are pretty common nowadays so I imagine there must be some decent suppliers out there. My apologies for not being more helpful!

@Schocko1992 Год назад

So many thanks for this video. I have been sitting on fully built MDF and HDF terrain pieces since almost a year now and was unsure on how to approach them for priming, since I don't have any usable outside area for this. For regular miniatures I bought some very cheap electric Airbrush, a small spraying booth and a respirator and use Vallejo primer and Vallejo metal air paints for priming and base coats. This works excellent for miniatures, but I only read about some filler primer spray cans for MDF everywhere I looked. I don't have this kind of primer and I don't have anywhere to use it. Your video is exactly what I was looking for. I am now more confident in proceeding just the same way as for all my other miniatures. I also have all kinds of Vallejo airbrush varnishes here already that I will use.

@tabletopalchemy Год назад

So glad it was useful to you! I was in the same situation - how to prime stuff in a small indoor space lol. Hope you paint up some cool stuff!

@SwordOfHeimdall 9 месяцев назад

I really liked this video and found it very useful. Subscribed! 😊

@tabletopalchemy 9 месяцев назад

Awesome! Rest of the content isn’t too similar but maybe you’ll find some stuff that interests you 🤙🎄🍻

@LoneEagle2061 Год назад

I seal primarily to prevent the char bleeding through the paint and my first method worked well enough that I’m still using it. I paint the entire sheet with a spirit/shellac sanding sealer, using a cotton rag to apply (covering a wide area) and allow that to dry before cutting tabs. Once the parts are free I can touch up the edges using the same method; but with a poncing action rather than smearing; the shellac will bond into dry shellac without difficulty so this achieves a unified seal pretty quickly. Because the sanding sealer is spirit based it is touch dry very quickly, and because it isn’t aerosolised I find the fumes very manageable. Note that the sealer will migrate along the surface and through the grain I have had no trouble with small through detail (such as perforated floor panels), those sorts of edges are adequately sealed by the passes over the face of the sheet.

@tabletopalchemy Год назад

Ah very cool. A friend of mine suggested the same type of thing but I was hesitant about fumes in an apartment lol.

@PatGilliland Год назад

I use grey artist's gesso for just about everything. It dries thin with a flat toothy finish and is purpose designed to seal wood panels and canvas. On figures it sucks right into the detail and will even tolerate a little gloopiness in application without obscuring any detail. Relatively cheap too.

@tabletopalchemy Год назад

You use gesso to prime miniatures? Meaning figures? I never would have thought that would work! I shall have to try that out sometime.

@danielallott Год назад

Love this fail forwards style content, super useful

@tabletopalchemy Год назад

“If I can help just one person…” and that person was me, I’d be in good shape 😂🍻

@tomyoung9834 Год назад

I have mdf buildings I need to paint up, so this video was very helpful!

@tabletopalchemy Год назад

Awesome!

@pezpengy9308 Год назад

i rather enjoyed the absorption quality of the mdf. i just kept washing it up until it arrived where i wanted it. cheap walmart apple barrel paints too. the washes keep all of the printed detail. i have to be honest it looks pretty good.

@tabletopalchemy Год назад

Having done the tests now for myself, I no longer think losing detail is at all something to worry about. The airbrush for me is just a bit easier and smoother of a finish than brush painting but I think it’s all good.

@ttzombie Год назад

thanks for the test.

@lynnleigha580 Год назад

Still looks cool 😎

@beezany Год назад

The 0.3mm needle for that airbrush is pretty good with inks and airbrush paints. It works great with stuff like Golden High Flow and Vallejo Air, straight out of the bottle. I use the 0.3mm for paint and the 0.5mm for primer (Stynylrez or Vallejo Surface Primer). I've never bothered with the 0.2mm needle. If you decide to experiment with it, check the needle first. I own two Master brushes and BOTH of them arrived out-of-the-box with a hooked point on the 0.2mm needles. Those brushes really are a great deal, which is why I have two. I got tired of switching between the needles and decided that it was easier to just have two handles (plus then I have a spare in case anything goes wrong). If you only do light airbrush work, it's all the airbrush you need. If you end up getting more into airbrush work, the Iwata HP-CS is a great upgrade. It's got a very similar feel, just better build quality and easier to break down & clean. I had originally planned to keep using the Masters for rough work like priming & varnishing, but the HP-CS is such a joy to use (and so easy to change needles) that I ended up just using it all the time. I still have the two Masters as a spare in case I ever need a spare.

@tabletopalchemy Год назад

Excellent! I was just thinking about getting a second one in order to have the .5 and .3 ready to go. I haven’t sprayed inks yet but plan to at some point. Awesome, thanks!

@beezany Год назад

@@tabletopalchemy Oh yeah, that is totally worth it!