Bethel Music in Methodist Churches?

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From the Friday live stream: A viewer asked about the use of music produced by Bethel Church. While the intent was mostly just to point out how theologically problematic their church is, it turned into a larger conversation on the history and purpose of music in church. This is a conversation that needs to be had in the Global Methodist Church, but which is often being actively avoided because it will cause division.

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3 окт 2024

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Комментарии : 27

@jeffdollar1646 10 месяцев назад

Great thoughts on music - I think we are in about total agreement on this issue. My first or second Sunday at my present church, we had a lady who was a total stranger to me get up and sing an atrocious song that was more suitable for the country music station than church. I sat the board down and discussed it, and we came to the conclusion that there would be no special music without prior approval of the board. Since then, we have eliminated it altogether and sing only Psalms and Hymns. If people want entertainment they can go elsewhere, if they wish to worship, come to church.

@jerrysimpson4562 10 месяцев назад

I myself love the old church hymnals. Hearing the whole congregation sing is somehow special to me.

@plvsoundman5148 10 месяцев назад

A friend of mine wrote a song. “Jesus Is worth more than 4 cords”. Jesus for sure is that. I’ve been soundman for many very popular Christian groups. I have noticed that in the 70-80-most of 90’s most of the groups were direct in their sharing Jesus. Till money and Big corps started to tell artist that Jesus is fine but need to tone the Jesus down. Even in some southern gospel area it that’s way also. Now the praise and worship styles are still caught up in the corp $$. Keith Greene said before he died that don’t let the eyes wander. I think everyone likes good music no matter style as long as the theology is solid back by the Word. From Luther Wesley to Tomlin always Ck the lyrics out. Singing in church Sunday mornings can be so different from Reformed to Pentecostal churches and everything in the middle. Our church is big on making sure the lyrics are solid in theology and the Word no matter the song writer if it’s just been written yesterday or it was written 300 yrs ago.

@TerryBarrett-ui7xk 10 месяцев назад

Enjoyed your comments. Our church, which was one of the first to disaffiliate in OK, has a traditional service and a contemporary service, and the contemporary service continues to grow faster than traditional BUT they are both growing. Although my wife and I are among the elder participants in the contemporary service, we love the music and having the words to the music on the big screen in the sanctuary. We are also very involved in our Emmaus Community and enjoy interacting with Christians from different backgrounds!

@user-ue1wg4sm9o 10 месяцев назад

I do not often agree with you, but on this, absolutely! You are spot on!

@MrWhipp3 10 месяцев назад

Yes! Please do a whole segment on it!

@davidleinweber 10 месяцев назад

I hope the new Methodist churches come up with a new hymnal as good as the UMC Hymnal. You are so right about keeping our great heritage of time tested Christian music going forward. The Bishop of the NG Conference wants disaffiliating churches to turn over their hymnals, which - at a national level - would be many thousands of hymnals . Sort of scary because it would probably hard to create a new hymnal of that quality today, especially one including some of the nicer new songs

@eileenthrift8259 10 месяцев назад

I believe that is not true. My understanding is that hymnals purchased by a local church belong to that church. That bishop has overstepped his authority. Another story is that disaffiliating churches must turn over all their historical records. Perhaps Jeffrey knows whether or not this is true? My church disaffiliated but still has all the hymnals. We have removed the cross and flame on the outside of the church. We are continually adding to our numbers. Many left because of the apostasy in the UMC but are now returning. ❤

@32212Steve 10 месяцев назад

The jean jacket makes you look like a worship pastor at your local non-denom church haha. I generally agree with some of your points. But I will say that there is music being put out that does not sound like the world. I would also say that is the idea of contemporary music - take popular sounds and turn them towards Christ. These big name bands do create some unique and rich songs, but they are often far and few between because the worship industry runs through them. As a contemporary worship leader, I do still lead some of their songs, but I fear most churches don't realize the difference between a worship song and a faith-based, K-Love or Air1 song that doesn't belong in a corporate setting. They can be great personal testimonies, but you can't worship God through song if every lyric is revolved around your life

@roydavis2242 10 месяцев назад

I took music history classes and worship leading classes and was taught that Wesely used bar tunes in both MH and CW classes. Before I went to get my ministry degree, I was the worship leader for the contemporary music service. Even after I was on the staff of a church as an associate, I was in charge of the worship music. Before I chose any song, I read it for theological content and several failed, including some of the "Hymns" we sang. How many of the old hymns have you looked at the lyrics for theological content?

@plainspokenpod 10 месяцев назад

Me? Lots. Not as many as some. But listen, I can readily acknowledge that there were a lot of bad hymns. My critique is not just with the content, but the form. And listen, I’m pretty sure you heard wrong on the bar tunes thing. If you can find any evidence, it would be nice to see it.

@WorldWideWell 10 месяцев назад

Was Christum treibt (whatever floats Jesus). -Martin Luther, 16th century. What brings people closer to Jesus? You can pick apart any music lyrics (theologically) in any hymn if we get too picky. Example: It's not (amazing) grace that taught our hearts to fear, it's the law. We should be gracious with one another when it comes to musical taste. Virtually no church music survives with harsh scrutiny.

@plainspokenpod 10 месяцев назад

I agree that we can become ungracious in the church, and that very little can stand up to uncharitable scrutiny. Even so, Christians are expected to exercise discernment. If any practice is okay because someone gets something out of it, then I believe a lot of harm gets done. Church is a corporate exercise; not an individual one. Worship needs to participate in an eternal truth. This has implications for music, as well as everything else we do. It is only modern western believers who cannot seem to muster the energy to examine ourselves. The rest of the history of the church has felt the burden of conforming our worship to Christ. Is it any mystery that the most self-absorbed culture (ours) finds itself with the most self-referential worship and the least biblical literacy? I don’t think so. We would we wise to reconsider our course.

@bobsnyder3763 10 месяцев назад

The amount of time spent talking about the history of music in worship tells me the point of the question was largely missed. When someone asks about Bethel and Hillsong music, one should be thinking about the theological soundness of the work AND the approval one extends when using their work. That approval comes in two forms. One, implicit approval is given to the body of Bethel and Hillsong music and ministry. Two, use of the music has a monetary support tail if the congregation is properly abiding by CCLI use and reporting requirements. It would be akin to sending them a check so they can continue to grow their heretical ministry. Might I suggest this video come down until the longer answer can be developed?

@plainspokenpod 10 месяцев назад

Nope. This was a brief aside on a live stream. I sometimes do longer stuff that is more comprehensive. I reserve the right to also do short stuff that introduces concepts that not all folks are familiar with. I may treat Bethel again someday when I care to actually pick apart their lyrics, look into their church doctrine, and elucidate the mechanics of CCLI. If you want to send me articles or notes on that, you're welcome to. But I'm not going to be taking down content that is brief or otherwise unsatisfactory to those wanting something comprehensive. I acknowledge that the question asked in this segment wasn't the question answered. I reserve the right to do that, too. For right now, I want GMC folks thinking about how and why we do music the way that we do. Picking apart Bethel is actually a distraction from that. I realize I put their name in the title to this piece, and that might give a false impression that I actually treat the substance of what they do in an eight-minute video. I started one place and led to another. Gotta name it somehow. "Intro to Music Theology" won't get many clicks. I decided to name it off the question and some of the answer.

@Keycity60 10 месяцев назад

I personally don't like the, “Jesus is my boyfriend,” choruses sung ad nauseam, but that's just me.

@nojoke420 10 месяцев назад

Fanny Crosby forever!

@plainspokenpod 10 месяцев назад

I do love Fanny. To be fair to her, though, she understood herself to be writing devotional music, not congregational worship music. She knew the difference between the two. Again, I would say, I really like her music.

@marshalldarcy7423 10 месяцев назад

Christianity the religion has generated some of the most beautiful music ever composed like Bach's compositions. Chants of the middle ages where formative for western music.

@harrison12281 10 месяцев назад

Hey Jeff, I would love to do a video with you about worship. I have been a worship leader for over 20 years and would love to discuss this with you!

@plainspokenpod 10 месяцев назад

Hi Harrison. If you would, please email me your bio, some of the ideas you think would be helpful to put on the internet, and your schedule when you could film something. I'm at plainspokenpod@gmail.com

@odellhorne 7 месяцев назад

I wasn't looking for this video, it found me. You all sound like a bunch of old women in the black church complaining about the young folks are singing! I will put up the theology of the lyrics of Cornerstone (Hillsong), Goodness of God (Bethel Music), or Graves into the Gardens (Elevation) against anything in the United Methodist Hymnal. For Everyone Born, seriously?

@plainspokenpod 7 месяцев назад

I wouldn't make the case that all old music is good and all new music is bad. There are lots of songs in the 1989 UMC Hymnal that are really gross. To act as though Hillsong is the only theologically undiscerning author out there would be silly, indeed. What I DON'T think is silly is arguing that the music we sing, both its style and content, impact the practical spiritual lives of those who are exposed to it. So one can mock if one wants, but one must then contend with the historic truth: lex orandi lex credendi. Call me an old lady; I'm not particularly ashamed or moved.

@jdkeyes2000 10 месяцев назад

I've done this a long time,,(40 years-- golly i'm old :) ), and I can say there is good music in modern sources. There is also horrible music from old sources. The goal is to pick songs with good theology, singable words, and good range. The most necessary thing in preaching, teaching, singing is to do it all to the BEST of your ability. I say this in all seriousness,,, this is literally our offering of praise and worship and to give anything less is just wrong.