Thanks for bringing this up. The giveaway for me is St George on the rear. He's flat. The face, the body and the legs. Note there is no or little garter on the leg. Some Australia Perth Mint Sovereigns were a bit like this "shallow strike" but even if this was a circulated Proof, as Numistacker says, it should still have tons of detail. I have a very strong magnet for picking out Gold Plated Steel Fakes! When buying on EBay I always make sure the Seller has "Buyer Protection". Even if the Seller says "No Returns", if the coin is wrongly described you can still get a refund. Dealing "off Ebay" to save a few quid can be costly if there is a problem!
Before I made the video I did take the coin to DNW to be authenticated just in case my gut feeling was wrong. My initial reaction that it was a counterfeit was upheld when it was looked at by an expert.
These forgerys were made in Lebanon and Syria during the 1970s, along with fake sovereigns and halfs. I have the 1911 proof set along with the 1887 and 1893 proof sets all in original Royal mint boxes. I have a very large collection of sovereigns and halfs such as yourself. During the late 1960s I worked at the Royal mint and worked on making the mary Gillick sovereighns, and worked in the polishing section. Nice to watch your vidioes.
You did a fine job on the Gillick Sovereigns and I think the market is likely to treasure those in the future. If you have a couple of spare Gillick proofs send me a PM.
The 1911 £5 coin or quintuple sovereign was probably not made in Lebanon in the 1970's, although it . could have been. Lebanese fakes became famous, or infamous, in the Harry Stock case, but these were all exceptionally high quality, and very convincing fakes. The coin in this video is a very obvious fake. I would probably call it a 10 metre fake.
Expensive fake coins are a real problem on eBay. But eBay doesn't care because attempting to crack down on forgeries would: 1) lower total revenue via fewer sales and 2) potentially open the company up to liability for fakes that make it through any vetting process. So the gold 5 sovereign that you received is what we end up with. A good rule of thumb is to only buy NGC, PCGS or ANACS slabbed coins on eBay once you break maybe $500 in price.
Great info, thanks for sharing. I got stung as well on a 1925 SA sovereign. It was around 85% gold , returned it for a refund and the seller tried to resell it until I reported him. The measurements were spot on but the horse and rider didn't look right. There seems to be quite a few fakes around and getting better.
When you took it to DNW, did they verify what it was made of? It doesn't look like a recently-made fake, more like an older copy, and apparently some 5-sovereign coins were made in India, identifiable because they're 24-karat.
Great video and information! This is one of the reason me and ebay don't usually get along unless it is from a verified business like MCM or JM bullion. Thanks for sharing!!
Thanks numistacker for creating awareness about the fraud gold coIns in ebay.I had also bad experience with ebay during last October I have purchased two one ounce NGC GRADED GOLD coins but after when I measured the weight of the coin it is around 21 grams and with a doubt I have performed gold testing on the same.and results were shocking the coins are brass coins.
That is extremely disappointing. Did you get a refund for the coins from eBay ? In many respects of the slabs counterfeit they are more likely not to be Gold at all
Did you check the NGC serial number and compare the coin to their image online? I was just wondering if you noticed considerable difference between your fake coin and the image from the actual coin or if the serial number did not register as authentic to begin with?
I saw a few fake 1 Oz. US gold coins on Ebay last month that were NGC graded and when I looked up the number on the NGC site the only difference was the picture of the bar code was all wrong, other than that they looked pretty good. The auction started very low as well but sold at around spot.
What's the difference between a proof and bullion sovereigns and why are they so much more expensive? Bullions are still royal mint aren't they? Please reply
One is produced by a high capacity machine and not cared for the other is pressed between 3 and 6 times for quality and definition. proof is way way better than bullion so should a better item be the same price?
Yes but geniune bullion sovereigns are made by the royal mint aren't they? It concerns me a little because i have two halves that i just wear as jewellery. I'm not a collector or anything , iv'e just always liked them. The dealer proved the gold content with a machine. Both coins came up as 4 grammes in weight, each containing 21.8 k of gold. Is that correct?
@@darrenwelling7562 I would sincerely hope the Royal Mint never make any fake sovereigns, and any sovereigns made by anybody else are fakes by definition. If your dealer's machine showed them as 21.8 k, then his machine his incorrectly calibrated, the coins are fake, the dealer doesn't know much, or a combination of some or all of those possibilities. Genuine sovereigns are 22ct gold (9.166%).
Hi Laurence..thanks for the reply. I bought it from a long established dealer with a good reputation. Rhyl coin and stamp. Prior to purchase i enquired about how they ensure authenticity. He (Marco) reassured me that all sovereigns show up as 21.6 or 21.8 on his machine. He has trays and trays of halfs and fulls and genuine coins always show up as this ratio in his opinion. I did take it to another dealer and he reassured me it was the real deal. I really hope so it's a beautiful coin. Sadly i did not know about Chards at this time. I tune in to all you're you tube video's, they are really interesting and informattive. Thanks again...
@@lawrencechard5914 hi Lawrence thanks for the info..however if you go on the first national bullion site it says that many coins minted from 1800 up to recent times only contain 90% pure gold ( 21.6 k ) and these include british sovereigns and francs. So all in all i'm reassured Rhyl coin and stamp do know what their talking about when they say sovereigns are usually 21.6 k or 21.8 k. However i enjoy you're video's, they are very infornattive and educational. I am also very happy with my high grade full sov i purchased from you're selfs. Have a good day
Nothing is safe, especially on ebay. Yes, fakes are put in genuine slabs and slabs are faked as well. Also the buyer might not own the coin, or might sell it multiple times to different buyers.
I'm surprised you sent is back. Here in the US if I received a fake US coinage I would have initiated a charge back and the coin would have gone to the secret service for investigation/prosecution.
Now that would be a good result "the secret service for investigation/prosecution", but it would be even better if they also investigated ebay's complicity with or apathy towards policing all the dodgy stuff and dodgy vendors on its site, also if it did get pro-active, it could lose 90% of its fee income overnight.
It is a sad, sad world looking for honest men, as rare as hens teeth but that should have been a beautiful coin, so disappointing but thanks for the video, better luck next time?
So the moral of the story is...Don't send Numi a fake sov unless you don't mind a pissed off warewolf sitting next to you on your flight from Florida to London?
Some planned coins are faked as well from the UK. I had one dealer try and scam me in December for what he said was a VIP coin, it came and was not VERY obviously. Took me two months and phone calls to eBay to get the money back.......Dealers can scam as well in the UK.
ebay should have a policy that any counterfeit items have to be sent to the police & police issue receipt & then destroy the counterfeits so they cant be re sold!
Im scared to buy anything on Ebay unless its a place like Pinehurst, Liberty Coin etc. Never bought anything outside the U.S. either. So far I been lucky only ended up with a fake 2008 silver Panda from Ebay. Yeah the color is noticeable on the Sov. It should be a bit darker tone.
it doesn't seem the problem was gold in this case (atleast for arguments sake it could have been real gold). it was a fake print. so basically if you are paying premium you need to know you are not being handed real gold but fake mintage. (i think most people paying high premiums will at the least know how to test their gold).
