A week ago I used the Demaree method on this colony. It has now gone from a decent sized colony starting to prepare to swarm to an even bigger colony which will not swarm (for a while at least!) This is step two to ensure its growth.
I did this Damaree control and the the second week I moved some brood frames up to the top again. the third week I went into the bottom box, took 2 frames of brood with queen out.That left approx 6 frames of solid brood. I put them in a box with 2 frames of honey shook a couple more frames of bees into it. I left them in the same yard but moved them away from the parent hives. These made a split. this left the big colony with an opportunity to requeen its self, but also not haveing to feed a lot of larva after approx 10 days. all the bees could adapt into the field force and bring in alot of honey. I did this around the first week of August. The splits have grown into 2 deeps and the old hives (4 of them )were all successful at requeening. they all produced 3 supers of honey and as of today are 2 deep boxes strong, should be in good shape even for our Nebraska winters. If any of the hives had failed to requeen, I could have united them with one of the splits. Just an idea that worked well for me ----this year. We seem to have a honey flow going on yet with the sunflowers and goldenrod. The first time in a few years that it amounted to something.Good luck to everyone.
I think the way that this was also done is a new queen is created in top brood at end of the season old queen is killed and top brood plus honey brood and new queen is placed on top of bottom brood box. Honey suppers is harvest for the beekeeper. This way you can run a two queen colony. Hence perhaps the two qx.
I like this thing you accomplished I like the other way also but you will have an even larger split your next time I would hope and a larger split could have more honey and it doesn't look like it had any problems I am glad I caught this something new to me I always helped my father and he has not been there for a good time and I am not 29 I am 76 in a few days
Hopefully you're still checking this post; Method begs the question about the potential of laying workers up top, I assume when the bottom box with the queen fills with brood and you'll need to repeat this several times, risk of late season swarming. Isolation of the drones unless you have a top entrance. Thanks.
Thanks for the great video. Off topic question: What is the purpose of that foil bubble barrier on top with no bee space vs a vented top board? Is it because it is cold where you are at?
I saw your video on the Demaree method and thought I might have a go at it next year, I have a lavender garden with 6 colonies in it and when the lavender blooms I remove the supers and replace them with new frames so I can separate the lavender honey which has a beautiful taste and aroma to it, increasing the production of this honey would be beneficial for me as it sells at a premium. We are having a crazy production year here in South Yorkshire, where are you located and have you also had an increase in production this year?
Great video but something I'm not understanding. So only issue I see is don't the 2 deeps up top become full of honey? Those are going to be a pain to deal with, am I missing something or do you just bite the bullet and deal with head height 80 pound boxes? What if you fed in the early season? Now you've got the potential of sugar honey in those 2 top boxes?
I’ve never done a Demaree method and it seems very interesting! Why not put the brood box directly next/above the queen excluder … and then on the 7th day put them on the top as you did? Thus you wouldn’t have to worry about the bees creating square cells and going through the top box?
What's the thinking behind leaving both of the old brood boxes at the top, why not move at least one of them back to form a double brood below the super again?
You will see in my videos about single brood chamber management....I am a fan...makes more honey, less mite treatment required etc... However now we are in the dearth I may change it back!
I don't understand what's wrong with keeping a queen in those frames since the older queen is far from those frames? What if someone wants to keep those queens put each in new hive with a bunch of worker bees?
Why do the bees in the bottom brood chamber continue to move nectar into the supers, when obviously there is plenty of room in the new frames in the brood box, notwithstanding that the queen needs space to lay?
After all was said and done do you feel like you had a higher honey production because of the split or do you think that it was comparable to the traditional way just no swarming?
Pluses and minuses, it does not provide extra ventilation which may be an issue when temps and humidity rise but theydo the job of protecting the telescopic cover, and an extra barier from heat of the sun. Also makes a better seel to prevent robbing later. Cheap too!
Great follow up Peter! Thanks. So when you say you might put another super on I assume you are going to put another medium between the top 2 deeps?? So what are you going to do with the top 2 deeps that are filling with honey?? Do you extract the deep frames also, or leave them for Winter??
I let the bees fill up deep boxes one time doing demaree . picking them up to harvest tore my shoulder out , i lost all my honey harvest and my other hives swarmed . Now i only make splits using this method. I’m to old to hump deep honey super.
Nice method. Why not leave the old brood boxes just above the new bottom brood box and excluder so the bees realize they still have a queen and do not make so many queen cells. If a virgin does hatch the bees can maybe figure out whos the best mother. not sure why the old established brood boxes have to go all the way up top. Is there a specific reason for this. thx
I believe it is to separate the young bees from the queen (and her pheromones) sufficiently so that they feel she has gone and do not swarm in the short term. If they were close together this would not be the case and swarming might occure.
There are many variations to this method however its main purpose was to reduce the swarming urge....this is done by drawing young house bees up and AWAY from the area in which the queen is laying. Depopulating the brood nest....if the supers were just above the lowest chamber they would still be very close....I believe that is the theory.
@@BeekeepingwithTheBeeWhisperer in my experience bees do not sworm and do not make a qc if i move brood just above the excluder. I think when queen starts to make lots of larva it prevents swarming mood. Also we jast shake the bees down with queen to the prepared box. It's fast and easy. Then after week we give a comb box above the excluder.
So, just so I understand, those queen cells were all made within the first few days of when you did the Demarre? Now that you’ve destroyed all queen cells what will stop the creation of laying workers?
I thought in a Demaree you only put capped brood up and made certain there were no uncapped larvae or eggs up top specifically to prevent them from making new queen cells.
My mentor was a pollinator. He explained to draw as many bees up to the top box and get rid of the nurse bees to slow the swarming urge. In the bottom box went only one frame with capped brood and the rest foundation. Some drawn if you have it. The idea is to keep the field force busy trying to re-build from a fake swarm. They are in overdrive to build comb and get the population back up to survive.
It there was an upper entrance working properly then one of two things. 1 she may leave with a swarm or more likely 2 I would have a two queen hive but lots of brood in my honey!
@@BeekeepingwithTheBeeWhisperer interesting. so if the second scenario happens, would you have to kill one of the queens or would you keep a 2-queen colony?
Hi Peter, My apiary is here in SE Ohio. I'm thinking about following your teaching/guidance regarding the Demaree Method. However, temperatures are still dropping into the 40's and high 30's at night. Are these cooler temps at night an issue? (My concern is the Queen getting too cold at night, not having enough house bees and foragers to cluster around he in cooler temps). Secondly, I'm calling this a "pre-emptive" demaree split as my hive's are strong and robust, but have NOT, produced capped queen cells yet (I am starting to see the small queen cups with nothing in them)... your thoughts? I am a novice beginning my 3rd year of beekeeping this April. Many thx, Dave from SE Ohio
So if you wanted to split hive and grow your own queen instead of buying one would you leave 1 queen cell and move it into a smaller nuclear with brood and bees yes I'm new bee to bee keeping hopefully they will make it through our cold winter in Northern canada
There are many approaches but if you want to increase you colony numbers make several nucs from the queen cells. Where you are I would have onframe with at least on queen cell plus at least one more frame of brood plus at least two more frames full of bees in EACH nuc. (they need time to grow so do not leave it to too late in the summer...late Spring would be best.
@Beekeeping with The Bee Whisperer thank you you have been the only person to reply to my question and I'm going to increase hive the way you said to do.thank you
I would tend not to use emergency queen cells for new hives if I had the choice. They tend not to be the best fed young queens and are sometimes made from older larvae.
With two deep supers on top why not take the one and move it to another hive stand for increase. I understand your taking away population, but a nice way to stabilize back to two deeps
The principal is to have a very large field force relative to brood and nurse bees to make a lot of honey. Two smaller hives does not make what the one big one will do.
Hello Again Peter, Regarding doing the demaree method do u think temp is an issue? We are still having Lo temps in the hi 30's to mid 40's however, the high temps will be in the high 50's to mid 60's
Not in my view. Emergency queen cells which is what they make upstairs can be very inferior queens. I would rather replace with a new mated queen or one of my own cells.
Why not just delete the two small honey supers so they don't decide to make queen cells for the first week and than add them in when the egg stage is past?
You would still have to check it, still a good chance they would make emergency queen cells. Plus, I think the idea is that the queen is separated quite far from most of the brood so those young bees are separated from her too, suppressing the swarming instinct for a while.
When this video opened you were in front of 2 big colonies. one had 5 boxes (3+2). The other had 4 (2 big +2 supers). I'm wondering... would it kill the colonies for them to have that many boxes on when you overwinter if the they are all full of honey, and have tight entrances? I was asking this to try to figure out if pulling honey in spring instead of fall could work to improve overwintering numbers? But this depends on if you leave boxes on, and I'm not sure if that extra space would cause more harm by leaving them more food? Thanks.
Colonies in this cold climate are better off with space sufficient to feed them through the whole Winter but little additional space which makes it very hard to heat (and therefore gets lots of condensation) I find that a double deep is perfectly sufficient for my Maine winter.
I did this Damaree control and the the second week I moved some brood frames up to the top again. the third week I went into the bottom box, took 2 frames of brood with queen out.That left approx 6 frames of solid brood. I put them in a box with 2 frames of honey shook a couple more frames of bees into it. I left them in the same yard but moved them away from the parent hives. These made a split. this left the big colony with an opportunity to requeen its self, but also not haveing to feed a lot of larva after approx 10 days. all the bees could adapt into the field force and bring in alot of honey. I did this around the first week of August. The splits have grown into 2 deeps and the old hives (4 of them )were all successful at requeening. they all produced 3 supers of honey and as of today are 2 deep boxes strong, should be in good shape even for our Nebraska winters. If any of the hives had failed to requeen, I could have united them with one of the splits. Just an idea that worked well for me ----this year. We seem to have a honey flow going on yet with the sunflowers and goldenrod. The first time in a few years that it amounted to something.Good luck to everyone.
