I've graduated film school 10 years ago, here's my tip on how to survive working in the film industry: aspire to, other than writing and directing, learning a TECHNICAL trait - editing, sound, lighting etc, that way you'll have a paid job within the industry, as you're learning the craft and process of making films until you are given the opportunity to make one yourself. Don't bet it all on writing or directing, those opportunities usually take YEARS to come. You'll need to make a living meanwhile.
I agree. Move to LA and get a job in the industry, even if it's in the mailroom at a studio or agency and make films/write scripts on the side. Don't even think about 'making it' as writer/director right away. Odds are you're going to have to 'suffer' for probably a decade or more before any opportunity presents itself (providing you're constantly working at writing and making films).
I really want to get into the film industry to be a camera operator/cinematographer rather than a director. I would like to learn more about editing. All crew jobs are so essential to the production and sometime I’m more impressed by the crew members for movies than actors/directors. Being a director/writer is really cool but seems very scary to me.
I wrote 4 screenplays, I'm 65 now, never knew how vital it was to have synopsis, treatments, given my age I doubt if anyone in Hollywood would ever read one page of my work, I write them for me not them, I am a retired librarian, and it is like a hobby, film world depends so much on who you know and who they are on the food chain
@@Lonelyeco thanks, second script I wrote got a recommend, which is very rare, I am redoing it, and it's going well, problem is it's a history story, and films on history or period pieces are not done today, too expensive, appreciate your support
@@andychoi90020 It's not whining it's getting upset about nepotism. I've worked jobs that made me clock out at 39 hrs and keep working. I've gone in to the same job and worked a different position for nothing. The difference is that at that job everyone was held to the same standard. Even the owner's kids. No free rides. It's totally different when someone picks up a phone and the kid gets a job because of parents hard work. That's bullshit.
“Experiencing works without worrying about pay”. Don’t worry about pay sonny, worry about the end of month rent, gas bills, eating a bit of food and drinking a smidgen of water. Exactly how is one supposed to cover his expenses if there’s no income. This is dangerous practice
This is dangerous. This is why everyone is working for less than a suitable day rate. People come in and undercut everyone else and either work for a pittance or for free. This hurts all freelance filmmakers.
it's actually called disloyal competition, it means that people willing to do the same work as you , except for free, are in fact hurting you, because companies will always want to take advantage of people.
@@luisgiron7319 My issue isn't even that I don't get the job. It's that even the person who gets it is hurting themselves. I've seen people do this, and get a lot of jobs. And go absolutely nowhere, because people want free labor. They don't want to further your career. Stuff like this also just irritates me because most lower budget productions mistreat their crew and this just reinforces that mentality.
Fucking cry about it. if you are a pussy who cant tough it out, you deserve to be beneath the people willing to suffer. The trick is not minding that it hurts. its just weak people complaining because they arent willing to rough it out. Be tougher, complain less.
Take this guys word with a grain of salt. Shane Stanley's glossing over the fact that he has been working for his dad who was in the industry since he was 16 and had access to his Rolodex of industry contacts since his 20's. If he just said, "I got help from my father, but I worked really hard too," I would respect him. But "tHe PrObLeM wItH kIdS nOwAdAyS..." schtick is a really smug and tone-deaf demonstration of lacking self-awareness.
exactly. it’s so hard to gain any knowledge of the industry when most of them got there because of their parents, parents forced them into it at a very young age, or have money. i’m trying to become a writer/director/producer/(maybe) actor, but there’s like no safe path to take so i’m scared
“The best opportunity I got was when some director and producer offered to fly me out to Bali and SHADOW HIM to learn how to be a director… kids these days just don’t want to work hard” 🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄
Make films on your iPhone with your own crew before you sweep floors for free. If you sweep floors for free these days they’ll keep you sweeping floors for free the rest of your life.
@@justaman9724Most people won't. (But then most people aren't going to make connections no matter what they do) A small percentage of people wind up advancing because of it. It's that small percentage that they're selling you on. "Hey, (famous person) started off here sweeping floors!"
Yup. Still not what he said. If you dont take the statements out of context, he is saying he doesn't understand why people can't see the value in experience. His confusion isn't about why people wouldn't want to be abused. Moments early he clearly acknowledges that abuse can and does happen...
@@reddjinn911 his confusion lies in not getting why people don't see 18 hours of "exposure" at a no pay job as as valuable as a job that pays AND gives experience. I didn't change the spirit of his message. It's just that he doesn't see it the way I do. I didn't change the context or change his meaning. I just see 18 hours of work for no pay as legal slave labor and he sees it as good for the slave somehow.
Agreed but the flipside is without any experience or skills who actually will want to pay you? People complain about not getting paid but they're not getting paid while they play X-box several hours a day, mindlessly scroll through social media for hours, text and gossip with friends, binge watch Netflix several times a week, etc. Why not kill some of that time on learning something new and making new contacts on someone's set for a few hours instead? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
@@JayCarver if they indeed are doing nothing for 10-12 hours a day for weeks, then clearly they aren't worried about income and so yes they should go and get out there. Its the people who are working 10 hours a day already, who have debt, and no family support, who usually don't have an extra 10-12 hours a day to drop on being free labor on set. Because they usually cant just take a week off from their job on a moment's notice to go do that. Now that said there's ways to make it work, people gotta find jobs that are flexible, etc etc. But this video's advise does seem to be targeted more at some kid with parent money and no debt who is lounging around waiting for a big break and not so much at the person who is saddled with debt, working their ass off, just trying to find some gig that can pay enough to switch careers. And that latter person still needs to follow the advise but they will have to navigate the maze much harder and more carefully.
LOL... In essence he said he doesn’t understand why they don’t work for free... cause people have a thing called bills, house, family, student loans... I hate this mentality of work for free for you first year to “prove” your worth...
Wow. That is the most stupid advise I've ever listen to. He basically says: "Work for free and you'll get rewarded ... sometime". That's not the way. If you depend your carreer on this thinking you gonna go down. That's for sure. Companies are always happy to have people who work for free. But don't expect any benefit form that. If you think they will reward you for this kind of passion, think again ...
@@kruegtopolis Right on. You aren't gonna last long or have enough money working for free. Don't move to LA, Vancouver, or NY (if you don't have the money or connections YET). Get a camera (micro-four thirds), fast lenses (with low f stops 1.0-2.4), download DaVinci Resolve (you can edit and fix color; it's the best editing software by far. Fuck Adobe they are professional extorsionists) Buy some Aputure lights (90 bucks a pop and you can control the lighting from your phone!), get a Zoom recorder for sound. Rock and Roll.
My friend worked for free (even on my stuff) and now he’s working as a producer for a production company making pitch packages to investors that will eventually get funded and made for films. My projects are among those getting packaged to be produced and pitched and I also worked for free which is how we met each other. But do what you feel is right and stuff.
Exactly. You'll get a rep for working free. They'll expect that from you. People will recommend you for the free work. You won't get rich, but you should have an entry level starting rate. And 50 dollars a day ain't it.
Having worked in the biz for many years, I have the impression Shane is projecting. He makes low budgets and he is happy to get that free labor and dangle the carrot of rewarding you... maybe... one day...
This is exactly the problem with the industry. People like him who's upholding the status quo. His whole thing is he and other people he knows have gone through the same process and so everyone else should as well.
When your student debt is above the hundreds of thousands, your parents can barely afford your flat in LA, you work as a waiter/waitress to barely afford food and nothing else, and the industry demands you to have an agent to get through to the people who will give you a real job, you can't afford to work for free. The problem comes when you tell the story of a kid who sweeps floors for free while his parents have been recognized in the industry, having the phone numbers, the money, the resources, you aren't telling a story about starting from the bottom, you are telling the story of someone who goes down to peasant-level work to have a normal experience until he/she gets a real job thanks to their parents.
True. Film industry or all entertainment industry is rich kids party with connections arleady established.. so to say after reading so many comments. Film industry looks like huge nepotism party where just few make it through... I am myself customs specialist working for international company so nothing to do with film industry really.
This channel has been very helpful but yea it’s a lot of people who have not attained any success or very minimal....if you look them up it’s like they once worked on a semi big feature years ago lol but w/e I’ll take the advice
@@Daniel-hs6ct I hope things are changing. There is a lot more work today than when I started in the 80s. The world has expanded beyond LA , new media channels have expanded beyond theatres and the networks, and the economics of production have dropped drastically. But in the day, working for free was part of paying your dues. I worked for a summer at a television station as an intern.. it set me for life, led to tons of industry work. He You learned skills, proved your values, and made contacts. It still applies today, but there is a limit and I am hoping that the job field is more welcoming in terms of Pay.
Dont sweep floors. Learn a skill people need. Learn 3d animation or motion tracking , quick compositing with after effects..etc.. You dont want to do a job anyone can do. Today The guy who sweeps the floor will keep sweeping the floor.. learn a skill that you can be paid for..but be the best at it.
It's great that he is so honest about the industry but it sucks that he normalizes that young filmmakers shouldn't expect to get paid and be slaves on set. I guess it's the harsh reality in a time were everyone has access und the industriy is overflowing with everyone.
It's bullshit. He got lucky. I guarantee you there are a million stories of people who worked harder, but never met the right person going into the right project and never "made it." This shouldn't be normalized, but these "success" stories show you how normal it is. Notice he's talking about crew. He's talking about doing free work for years. When's the last time you heard a famous actor talk about doing free work for years? Shit work, low paid work, single day (but paid work)--maybe all those, but never YEARS of free work. Actors, writers, and producers in Hollywood still know the right way to do it--it's why they all still have coveted UNIONS that protect them and limit their low ball wage after they have enough pull. Crews don't have that, so studios expect them for free because people like this asshole push that stupid narrative that being "used and abused" is okay.
@@jamjox9922 crews have unions. Union grips get paid well. you have to hire union people once you cross a certain budget. even extras are in the actors union. people pull other people in who they like and they meet those people on set. I dont think anyone does free work for years unless they really see themselves as having very low self esteem and keep working on terrible little indy movies. About your actor comment, go look at Bryan Cranston. he did crap for a long time until he got a day role for X-Files and then the creator of Breaking Bad remembered his performance years later and invited him for an audition. Luck but also being great at what you do. go get on a set by being creative when it comes to talking to strangers. then dont act like a victim when it gets tough. be the hardest worker there. be coool with everyone and help them. be curious about them and show interest in learning what they do. youll start getting paid on your next gig. people aren't so cruel as you paint them. it comes down to people valuing other people and too many people are emotional, unreliable and unfocused. too much entitlement out there and no one respects that especially not people who work hard.
@@jamjox9922 his father was a established actor and director and he produced his first film at 16 with his father which won then the emmy. he was very lucky.
@@thomasjust2663 Thomas stop! It's not cool to throw all other aspects of your life away for a small chance to be successful. It is even worse when filmmakers get lucky, having a mentor or someone higher up on the chain vouching for them, getting them paid jobs, and then they act like they worked the hardest to be where they are. What you aren't understanding from this is, as film students, we are taught to work for years at min. wage or free, it becomes a national standard that will grow to be more and more extreme. If every PA is the hardest worker on set, if every PA is okay with doing dirty work and not saying anything about it, then they all in turn become equal. Meaning that if a new PA comes in thinking he has to be the hardest worker, he's already stepping into an environment where everyone is already busting their balls. They will have to push themselves to a point where they burn themselves out before even getting to a point of success. It is not "survival of the fittest" its "let's see who survives being worked to death and then maaayybbbbeeeee you'll be respected" Just because this is how it's been done, or it's what you had to go through, does not justify the continuation of exploiting a young artists passion for free labor.
This is why the film industry keep making shitty movies. Because the people who have access to these positions made it there with the work ethic of a retail store manager. Its nice in theory but if you look at history, the greatest artists(in all fields) had an unorthodox way of living which brought out art that were way out of the box. Someone who can slave themselves for long hours shouldn't have the permit to direct massive budget films solely because of their work ethic. Sure with enough experience they'll be able to make decent movies but those with the inherit skills to make films beyond our imagination will never be seen because they didn't had the work ethic of a construction worker. Art is not like sport so we shouldn't treat artists like athletes. You need to live in order to make great art.
I'm an artist and I disagree with your point. You can be creative genius, and have the work ethic of a construction worker... I like to think I have a little of each, but where the true squeeze happens is the time. In order for me to have my work ethic I don't have the time to practice writing or playing my instruments because I have to use that time in order to be the cog in the wheel of the system I'm in as a construction worker... and since construction pays, and drunk people at bars don't, after a decade of playing music you start to wonder why? Why are you wasting your time? When you can make better use of your time?.... and at that moment the artist dies and the laborer is born. I'm sure it works out for some people like Bieber and others but for most it doesn't, and eventually reality says you have to eat and keep a roof over your head and being a musical monkey doesn't make as much as a shovel monkey. Also most artist DO work extremely long hours, they just don't get paid by anyone for their time they put in. It's only the end result that is applauded, or shunned by people who see/hear it.
@Mikelli Henriquez I couldn't have said it better. In a good many of those dead end jobs, the "I can sweep a floor really hard and do a lot of useless busy work" ethic is how many managers come to power. That's why those jobs suck so badly. I remember working one of those jobs many years ago. The store was clean, we had no customers, so I sat down& read the instruction manual of a product we sold so I could explain to customers how it worked. I was yelled at & written up for being lazy. The guy they promoted to Asst Manager never knew how anything worked or what we sold or where anything was, but he wandered around and did busy work. When you marry that foolish philosophy to filmmaking, it's obvious how the industry has come to produce such pathetic output.
Exactly man! I looked up this Shane Stanley guy and the few movies he has on rotten tomatoes all have garbage scores (literally his highest rated movie has a 42%). I find it baffling how cocky and pretentious the guy is despite his mediocre film resume.
"I don't understand why budding filmmakers don't just want to work for free for a few years". Imagine being so privileged, you literally don't understand what rent and food bills are.
wow, amazing a guy with rich parents in the industry was able to make it in the industry. if mommy and daddy aren't in the click, you aint making it in film.
You can hustle, be "johnny on the spot," and still fall through the cracks. Starting out, I worked on a ton a projects for free, as much as I could, living at home, and later when I saved up and moved to LA. But eventually those resources run out and you have to pay rent. There's a definite class element to being able to go out and spend 2 years working for free. Nobody should work for free.
@@ab2144 And that's why so many aspiring actors/actresses wait tables. And they insist they're an actor just doing a side gig as a waiter, but the problem with that is, if they were to take a hard look at how many hours they're working at a restaurant vs actually being on set - sounds more like the acting is a side gig...
@@d0k0night there's absolutely nothing wrong with having acting as a side gig. I'm year one into acting and still have my full time job because it covers my cost of living. But those aspiring actors making claims they're actors like they're full time when they're not...you're right, that is stupid and misleading.
Oh my - I understand Shane's point because that's what I did in my 20's. But I have to disagree with him. I come from a family of teachers and working class people. When I decided to become a filmmaker, I was a senior in college and I was almost done with my English major. I worked for free at 3 Entertainment companies - the last one was an unpaid internship in which I ended up editing TV shows. My hours were 11 - 3 on certain days and I fell in love with editing so much, I would stay until 5,6 pm - for free. A couple of years later, a job opened up at the same place, I applied, and I didn't even get an interview. I left the industry because you can only work for free for so long. I ended up working for the local gov't because of the regular paycheck, the health insurance and the retirement package. But I hate it and I want to go back into the Entertainment industry. From a financial view, the earlier you start making money, the sooner you can save for retirement, the more money you will have when you retire. Working for free when you're 25 gets in the way of saving for retirement and that is one thing you NEED - let alone money to pay the rent. I believe in apprenticeships - PAID on-the-job training. If I had that I would have never left the Entertainment industry.
try the music business, it's even worse, been around musicians in tX for 35 yrs. no internships in that world except at record labels or in radio maybe, entertainment is a glamor biz, so they many folks coming in who can afford to work for nothing, if you can't pick another career path and do it later, I'm 65, write screenplays in retirement, I don't care if they get made or bought, I do them to create something, I own them and no one can steal that from me , being a comedian is another nightmare, you will spend yrs. trying to make it, if you learn to become a comedy writer you might get in the game faster
@@TaxingIsThieving - I understand how you feel. If you want to move into film, you still have time. You're 24! I'm 43! And if it's not too late for me, you have time on your side. What you need is a financial plan. As long as you have that marketing job, put a percentage in a Roth-IRA towards retirement. Then put a percentage into a savings account but don't keep it in the savings account forever. Save enough to the point where you can move it into investments like crypto or an index fund where the interest rate is higher. Then when your money grows, you can take some of that money and finance your first film. A short film, or a low-budget indie feature, it's up to you. I am giving you suggestions no one gave me when I was 24. Not to mention when I was 24, there was no RU-vid. There are financial resources on RU-vid. You just need to know which are reliable. But if you have to start your film career in holidays and weekends with your own money, then do it. The main point of my post is - DO NOT WORK FOR FREE. Everything in life comes with a cost! Working for free is a cost to the employee! Money is about perception- the more valuable something or someone is, the higher the price.
After graduating film, I couldn't find anyone who may take me to the platform. Even if I'm ready to present my small skills, there's a block on my way. Turns out I HAVE to follow people's ass around to get an opportunity in the industry. Anyways I let down my dream of becoming a filmmaker and moved on with a another field -- journalism and writing. At least it helps me pay bills on time.
No way. If i am interested in this industry I would first go indie route but also get solid mechanical engineering skills to be able to get employment in post production or camera operation. And when film industry doesn't work, then u still get jobs offer as working as engineer in other companies.
Or you can go the Indie route and make your own films and gain recognition that way instead of having family members who are already successful in the industry and making one phone call to hook you up.
Exactly. I think this should be encouraged way more. Nolan, Tarantino, Cameron all did this albeit they are supremely talented. Especially in this day and age where most things can be learnt online, nothing is stopping anyone getting out there and creating something for cheap.
@joe smath that doesn't mean you can't still try. Make your own movies, submit to film festivals, etc. Get honest criticism and see what you can do to be better and learn more with the next film. No one said yet getting into the industry was easy
yessss that's what I'm doing. some people in the industry CAN work as a PA and do grunt work, which is an honorable thing to do, but others, such as myself, can also make our own films and send them to festivals and get in that way. Theres so many ways to get into the industry, but honestly the indie route is way better and more healthy (mentally and physically) then working for free and sweeping floors.
I think this video will have the opposite effect that’s intended. While it’s great to make meaningful contacts, you should not sacrifice your health and well-being to do so. It’s also very helpful if you know what department you want to get into so you don’t waste precious time.
I love how he hand waives the topic of exploitation. He had several very inspiring 🙄 stories of rich, connected men getting in their industry with phone calls from mom and dad. So they got coffee and swept the floor. They were connected. And I guess we’re going to completely ignore the very toxic power dynamics accepted with this mindset that leads to the types of abuses coming to light with the me too movement. Connected white men are told to sweep. It’s a little different for women.
@@lilibethvalladares but that's the thing, if you have a story you have a point of view, aka you imagine this story playing out, experience is relative, specially when the body of work isn so personal. I fully understand if you don't have the means to get a camera, that is entirely another issue though. As long as you have a story, you can make it reality.
@@lilibethvalladares Then spend some time with your camera and figure out how to use it, or form a partnership with someone whose good at cameras but can't write. (And when I say a partnership, I really do mean A PARTNERSHIP, as in a clear signed legal agreement that includes an incorporated business and an agreed upon dividend for both parties from the businesses revenue, and some reasonable agreement not to steal ideas from within the partnership. Yes, you will want an attorney for this.)
I think there needs to be a level of pragmatism when it comes to getting into the industry. I 100% agree with him when he says that as creatives we should put ourselves out there/invest in ourselves, work our ass off etc. However as creatives we only get the liberty to do stuff for free when we have a part/full time job or money in the bank. Shadowing people and learning is essential and good for perfecting the craft but it doesn't pay the bills if its free. I'm not saying that the film set has to pay me but what i am saying is that if i have a job at a supermarket and i can pay rent, i can afford to work for free on my craft in my spare time. But if I'm unemployed or financially in a bad state, then working for free is essentially suicide.
This is the mindset that I have right now. I'm in college right now trying to figure out what I want to do and screenwriting is something that really attracts me. But considering employment in the entertainment industry is a huge gamble, I'm also looking for another major as a backup that I also can at least be good at and pay the bills.
@@eec589 im in the same boat. I finished university and i am working in a supermarket. But i enrolled myself into some film academy that allows me to create a short film eventually. So hopefully if it is good it will be a start and I'll be making connections on the way as well. I would recommend looking everywhere man as the entrance to the industry is behind a fog wall but you'll find it if you look hard enough.
The problem becomes aligning your spare time when you aren't working... With people who are doing the stuff you want to help with. As a designer I have ended up doing s lot of my side work with asia because I would stay up late and be available for calls when they are working, while also working a dayjob here in the US. But when it comes to hands on set stuff you would need probably to have a very flexible work schedule or to take gigs that pay a lot for short sessions so you can take a week off each month.
"If you are good at something, never do it for free." (The Joker, The Dark Knight) You always put a value on your work. If you produce something for free, then it's not really valuable.
"Alternatively, you could just get your first 10 or 11 credits working as producer on your dad's films. Either way." Stanley's advice is from/for a different generation and should be adjusted. I'm close to his age, and in 1988 I rented a 2 bedroom apartment in South Pasadena for $600/month. Gas was under $1/gallon. More things were done on a handshake basis back then. I think if you follow his advice today you're in real danger of getting ground up, spit out and ending up homeless.
"His dad made a few calls" "My mom got a call and told me I had a job" Etc. I get his overall point but this isn't 1980. People will use, abuse and toss you quicker than you can blink these days and there aren't many areas for impromptu interning in times where everything is triple covered under insurance, etc. If you used a contact to get that interning job, you're already golden. Sure, do them when and where you can find them but the problem isn't the people (modern generations), it's the lack of opportunity due to the modern practices of industry.
There is a double edge sword to this. Initially, he is absolutely right about direct experience vs. college. He is right about work ethic. BUT, take into account that he is located in the #1 or #2 film market in the world. What about the smaller markets if there is even one? Not much one can do except work to keep from starving. I am working on gettng a gig in New Mexico ( of all places) because all of a sudden, a market will be blowing up and I have to take that chance than waste more years in my current location.
LA has taken a huge hit because of covid. Also, LA is fake af (in some obvious ways and other details I could explain but I don't have the time to). Soon there will be a "revolution" in many parts of America and perhaps other parts of the world. Georgia and Louisiana are currently blooming. Also, because of covid, the digital aspect of film communities are possibly going to bloom as well.
Wellp, hope you got the gig and if you did, hope NM treated you well. We have plenty of places that are great for film down here, but I would understand your hesitation. This state has stayed relatively out from under the radar and has for some reason become Hollywood's new baby. Tons of people are moving here from California and the industry is booming. I can only hope that turns out to be a boon for the enfranchised filmmakers and the newcomers living here.
@@Andystuff800 If you're an unpaid intern doing the level of work that an employee does, you're a scam victim. Internships legally have to pay unless you're there purely in a learning capacity.
@@thumper8684 right...but as soon as it turns into a job/career it seems to suck the FUN right out of it...deadlines and guidelines...can't say this...can't do that...
The exploitation of interns has gotten pretty serious, some people feel entitled to the free intern labor. I once worked with a photographer who said he ran his business on unpaid interns for 25 years, he said he would use them until they got a bad attitude or just stopped showing up, then he’d just get fresh interns. My pay for working with him was suppose to be lunch, lunch was some frozen meat he had at the back of the office refrigerator, but he couldn’t wait for it to thaw, so he ended up giving me $15 that I could by lunch with. Never saw him again. I interned for a production company and did a weeks worth of editing for them, supplying my own laptop, they bought me lunch one day out of the week, got nothing the rest of the week. They got paid for the work I did, I didn’t... then they said they were leaving on a trip and would be back in a month, they disappeared.
People value you or they don't, and if they don't value you, nothing you do is going to change that. The cold hard fact is you're a poorly bred puppy who doesn't have the pedigree they're looking for. You're not of their class, and you can't be any more than you can be a peer of the United Kingdom. In fact, you're probably more likely to eventually become a member of the House of Lords than to succeed in that business - at least you can marry an aristocrat or be made a life peer.
He’s not wrong. Hard work for free does open doors. He’s naive to think that people aren’t subject to biases based on gender or race, though. You can work your ass off but be overlooked for someone who already fits the image someone has for who they want to work with. It happens all the time.
How? You probably skipped the intro? He stated the biggest problem at 0:18 saying "it's controversial, you have to get out, dig ditches and get your hands dirty". He's American, so he uses analogy, but he means Nike's winning slogan of JUST DO IT. Change your daily routine, and circle of friends to change your life!
I think what he is saying is great advice. However, I wish he'd acknowledge the privilege of the lineage he comes from that helped him be successful. And I am not mad or upset at him for this because no one can control what family you're born into, but you have to admit that his lineage helped him be successful. I looked up his IMDB page and read the "trivia" part. If I came from the lineage he came from then I'd guess I'd be successful in the entertainment industry too....not hating...just saying...
Yes he is very smug. It doesn't occur to him that working for free works out better when you have powerful friends who know you and can advocate for you. Most of us would just be chum thrown to sharks.
I get what he's TRYING to say: "Don't be precious". Take a job and look for opportunities that aren't necessarily what you had in mind or that aren't you ideal, dream job. BUT the way he's talking about working for free for multiple years is bogus. You still have to pay the rent and eat.
I remember Crew Call. When I first moved to LA, I found work as an unpaid PA on a 35mm short film and that led to a lot of doors opening up years later (yes, it took years for a few big doors to open up for me). You never know. Working on this short film led to a paid script option and another script being 'hip pocketed' by a major agent (who in turn sent a big budget script all around town). It really is all about making contacts. You're probably thinking it was one of the producers or director of the film that helped me down the line. No, the contact I met on the short film who helped open the doors was just another unpaid PA like me on the film (an aspiring producer who was damn good at 'schmoozing' and 'networking' unlike me). If you're wondering what happened with these scripts. I'll be honest, looking back, the scripts just weren't good enough. They were good enough to open the doors (including CAA, SYFY/Universal and New Line Cinema), but not good enough to get a greenlight or representation. I was more focused on producing than writing anyway as I felt I am not too strong a writer.
This is a very one-sided argument from someone who obviously had the means to work for free continuously. His quote about >85% of film students not earning a dollar in the film industry should be a critique on how flawed the industry is for entry-level filmmakers - not about how film students don't want to work for free in a system that thinks overworking people for free is normal.
Don’t do film and art for money, if that’s your desire, do another career that pays. Only do it if you’re willing do it it for the rest of your life and never see a dime. I think all filmmakers should realize the numbers here. Most filmmakers remain indie and their work will remain mostly unknown. If you don’t have nepotism on your side, only timing and extreme luck will garner the Hollywood track but you as an individual can guarantee your path on an small indie scale. Passionate persistence till death is the art of life.
@Space Fire: Exactly. 99% of the comments here are from self-entitled people who have no idea of how Reality works. They seem to think that if THEY want a job . . . someone ELSE is obliged to give it to them. But how can that POSSIBLY be the case (?)
@@QED_ Lmao, no. What they say is that not paying someone for a 16 hours job is slavery and not a good practice at all. You are not doing arts while not receiving a dime, only sucking someone else ass'
Film is a business. And although it is built by people with passion, that does not mean the business should exploit people with labor based on that passion. Like others have said, we need to eat, we need somewhere to sleep. In order to be successful in this industry, you have to give it the majority of your time. So if you are simultaneously working on sets, getting those connections and exposure while working on your craft on the side, how is anyone able to survive. We are not entitled, we are sticking up for our rights as human beings. This is especially applicable for those who went to film schools and already have experience working on sets and with industry standard equipment. Working for free is not cool, it is setting a standard where now everyone expects the new guy to work for free. Essentially this cuts out hundreds of people who don't have the funds or support to work for free, in the end, it limits the stories being told. As artists and storytellers, we have to LIVE in order to tell stories. If we spend 12-15 hour days picking up cigarettes and getting coffee, while also having another job, how are we suppose to experience anything in life? Slaving yourself away is not admirable, finding balance for life, you career, your individual growth, and your health IS admirable
@@QED_ Can you come to my house and clean it everyday? It would be a 16 hour routine, some days I can give you meals, but most of the time you will have to bring it yourself. I would not pay you at all, but can give you false promises that maybe someday you will be important and maybe give you a recommendation to someone more important. Do we have a deal?
Many really talented people will never have the option of being able to work for free to get exposures. People have families, kids, bills. Getting noticed through the internet is tough but it'll have to do.
Sort of agree with him. But most of us have kids, and times have changed. Some of us can't afford to do all of that. If I didn't have kids I would of have done that.
I understand what he means. It isn't about the working for free, but about hard working and not feeling entitled to anything, being helpful, things like that. We all have to sacrifice something to get "the dream", be it having 2 or 3 jobs for a time, being paid less than what think you should earn, and still being grateful for the opportunity to be there.
@@nadiacalembe1546 "It isn't about the working for free" It literally is. "We all have to sacrifice something to get "the dream"" Such as getting a salary.
@@uanime1 don't take things so literally. He was in a position where he could work for free, most of us aren't. That doesn't invalidate the core of his advice. Work hard and without such an entitlement mentality. Be present... but hey I'm just someone who has 2 jobs (one so I can afford the other) and goes to school, sleeps 4 to 5 hours max. What do I know 🤷🏾♀️
Internships have traditionally been for the rich and well connected, those for whom a paycheck is an option and not a matter of survival. However, throw in room and board and, as in Shane Stanley's case, travel...
You could replace “Film Industry” with almost ANY industry in the US and his advice would still apply. There are huge industries like law, medicine, government, retail, construction etc. that depend on “exploitation” of an army of min-wage or associate-level labor. Medical residents work 100 hours a week for a nominal salary, and that’s AFTER 4 years of Med school. But go to any ER in America, and they’re your doctor ! There are STILL tons of opportunities out there for millennials, but if you’re worried about your “value” being compensated with no experience or proven skills on your resume, they’re not for you.
That is all true, but I think this philosophy, in today’s world where there are so, so many people working with video or studying film, raises a new question: if people who want to be filmmakers in the traditional sense (or work within the traditional filmmaking industry in whatever capacity) go around knocking on studios or production companies’ doors, counting on their will to work hard being a strong enough calling card, then studios and production companies would soon find themselves with a flood of potential helping hands at their doorstep and everybody would get stuck, because there is only room for so many. Why would someone pick A instead of B or C, if all of them showed up at the doorstep? There has to be another differentiating factor to help navigate those hordes of candidates, other than “Who seems more desperate? Who talks louder? Who’s more confident? Who has the nicest smile?” - none of that works. Studios and production companies default to the candidates’ showreel. That is always, ALWAYS what matters. Up until the very early 00’s, you having the attitude to go and knock on the door asking for a job may have impressed people, yes, but today I truly believe it is not enough anymore. You need to back that attitude up with a showreel that (hopefully) is already good enough for them to give you a break.
This is one way to vet, especially now the entry level is near zero. It is a hard, cold fact that not everyone is talented/has talent in an art form. That's life :) Dreaming requires no talent or hard work.
@@NEXTxLOVER Talent is a romantic misnomer. Nowadays, it stands for an idea of a magical ability that you either are born with or, tough luck, you are not. That is one of the biggest lies regarding personal development we ever faced as a species. Talent is aptitude, aptitude is skill and skills can be learned. Now, more often than not, high skill level in any given field requires extreme dedication to acquiring and developing the needed skills and that is where the majority fail - because they don’t want it bad enough to be able to prioritize specific skill development. When looking at film people specifically, you can easily see that careers, either mainly on the technical side or on the artistic one, are developed and maintained on the basis of really loving the area, because it is a brutal business. That is the engine that will keep you going. But as I stated previously, as far as I am concerned, you are hired based on your showreel (or who you know :) ) and not on your decision to knock on a door.
The problem with this hustle mentality is that a lot of aspiring filmmakers do take on the no-pay jobs/internships but they lead nowhere because it ultimately comes down to whether or not you are lucky enough to be noticed by someone important or if you are extremely talented like Tarantino, Nolan, etc. Sure you can hustle for 16 hours a day and be the best intern on set, but there are a hundred other people just like you and given Stanley's mediocre film record, I'd wager he was just one of the ones that got lucky.
@joe smath While it is true that Tarantino grew up in LA and didn't have to relocate at the end of the day he was still a talented filmmaker who went the indie film route and made great films that gave him notoriety. The idea that there were millions with his talent just doesn't seem plausible, sure he had circumstances that benefited him but I find it hard to believe that "millions" of other people were just as talented as him but somehow not one of them made it big.
@joe smath Once again, Tarantino definitely had circumstances that benefited him, but it was his good script for Reservoir Dogs which gained the attention of a studio that gave him a decent budget for the film, and from there he grew his notoriety with his films. Yes, he was exposed to the film industry at a young age but so were plenty of other people. Yes, he lived in LA during a time where rent was cheaper, but he was still poor, and there were hundreds of other aspiring filmmakers living under the same conditions. Yes, he started during the "nascent digital age" but so did thousands of other aspiring filmmakers. Sure, luck has definitely played a part in his success, as it has for every person in the film industry, but it was ultimately Tarantino's talent that has gotten him this far.
@joe smathWow, the arrogance is just astounding, "big words", jeezus. The only point you have made is that Tarantino had circumstances that made his entry into the film industry easier. Then I said he was still a talented filmmaker but insisted the environmental factors of his time helped his success which to me seems like you are trying to devalue his success. I agreed that he was presented with opportunities that he himself did not create which let him enter the industry easier and even said that luck plays a part in his success but it is still his skill that has gotten him this far. Either be clear and clarify/defend your point or get out because insulting me is just pathetic. Oh and P.S just because someone wrote about something in a book doesn't always mean it is objectively true.
@joe smath No you can tell the issues at play by simply summarizing them to me because I did describe the exact point you've made so far, you just aren't conveying your thoughts properly. And I'm not going to read some book for a youtube comment debate, either summarize and defend it on your own or move on.
There are many things that factor success people go extremes and say work 19 hours a day hustling will get u far ahead. Or say luck and talent gets u far ahead in life. When its a miixture of multiple things. Nolan and taratino made films ever since they were children it took time for them to become skillful at their craft. Saying they are just talented is discrediting the years they put in to become who they are. But without their connections nobody would have notice them
#1 secret is because of Nepotism, if you dont know anybody in the game you will not make it. It's way harder for an independent own musician or an actor to ever excel alone without any assistance.
7:53 - I interned in both CBS show and a Paramount film in the writers/executive producers office. Every time I saw somebody from the crew say "by the way I have a script" it went right into the trash can. People at the top aren't interested in letting others climb up to their level. And man the scoffing at RU-vid value for potential creators is pretty hilarious. It's a different era dude.
of course, when you're just starting out, chase the experience and the money will follow. but why choose only one when you can have both, get an experience and get paid at the same time. just have to find the right opportunities. there's no free rent or free food, so why free labor?
I'm a musician and urge you to look up Charles Ives, the classical composer and Ka, the Rapper. Ives was a succesful insurance salesman and had a well run company but composed some of the finest works of classical music in the 20th century because he didn't have to give a shit about classical music gatekeepers watching his back - he was financially independent and could do whatever he wanted artistically. Ka is a chief firefighter in the NYFD and on the side has made some of the most lyrically challenging Rap music of the last decade - because he didn't have to give a shit about making deals with record executives. It's the same with your movies guys - don't get exploited like this guy suggests. If you have the skills do make an engaging movie - do it. Now is the best time to do so
Honestly, when I worked on set as an unpaid PA even though tried my hardest to fit in I couldn’t. Simply because I was TOO WORRIED about paying my bills. I was dead broke. Financial burdens hinders someone personality IMO. Doing unpaid work was too stressful because I kept thinking about how I would pay my bills. Hopefully I can retry again having some money in my pocket.
This is why I chose writing over directing. In order to be a good director, you have to be a people person, but I’m not a people person. I would like to have the experience of directing in the future, but I don’t think I would ever want to direct full-time.
@@AlvarVraal Tim Burton is probably the closest to what you’re talking about, but even so, I’m not just talking about being uncomfortable around people. I’m talking about having a genuine dislike for large groups of people.
@@batman5224 I love Tarantino but that man is definitely not a people person, and neither was Alfred Hitchcock. Yet they’re often regarded as two of the best directors of all time
HES ABSOLUTELY CORRECT! Yes it’s unfair but that’s the way it is. You can complain or pay your dues and get your foot in the door. Here’s some tips: listen, work hard, stay off your phone and here’s the golden nugget: read MOVIE SPEAK, a book on film set language. I promise you it will help fast track your career. It takes time but if you stick with things will get better. I work in the Special Effects Dept. When we see someone struggling we like we will try to help them out. We have bought tires for PA’s cars, fixed their cars, bought gas for them and even given cash. But only to those with a good attitude whom don’t complain.
This guy is 100% correct. I have worked at VFX houses in LA for over 20 years, Digital Domain, Dreamworks, Method Studios, etc and without doing any available work, insane hustle, and most of all making and fostering contacts you have about a 1% chance of making a career. My first years here 4 of us lived in an one bed room apt so we could afford it. Don't even think about dating, going out to eat, etc. Just work and you might have a chance. Its really something you have to be born to do. If you don't have the passion and drive, you can make more money in a more stable career in many other industries.
While I’ve done this, I also think this is a toxic way the industry treats people. Lots of people don’t have the luxury to do work for free for months on end.
7:22 HAHAHA HA LOL the world uses people. We don't get an hour break for 8 hours of work numbnuts! You get two 10s and a half hour lunch... and you better not clock in at 31 minutes because that's LATE! NOW CLEAN THE CORONA VIRUS TOILETS! THEIR BACKING UP AGAIN AND FULL OF MAGGOTS!
Most “aspiring directors “ can’t direct, they’re just glorified DP’s. This is why movies today have no life, most directors now are just wannabes. You gotta be original and you gotta have “balls”
@@southpark645 You don't. You use distribution advances and government tax credits for film. Unfortunately if you live in the USA there is very little public financing available for film. There is lots in Europe and Canada.
@@southpark645 Unfortunately the public finance system is available for Canadian citizens. There is also TeleFilm Canada, and about two dozen other funds across the country, plus the tax credits. Again, for Canadian citizens. You can look me up on IMDB.
What he's saying is if you want to get involved, you should try to get your foot in the door and get as close to the process as possible. This also happens outside of film btw, say you study computer science, 3d animation or even want to be a medical doctor: You're also going to be doing some or a lot of interning. That's often unpaid or maybe you'll get a pittance. You're also 'shadowing' people and they don't expect you to contribute a lot. You just try to make yourself useful. You should be in a stable financial situation if you apply for jobs like this. If you're in dire need of money it's never a good idea to go work for little or nothing at whatever that job might be and however cool it is or however passionate you are. You could also just do your own thing (and see how that pans out next to your day job). Other people in this thread probably offer the best solution: Get a high-skilled job in the industry that gets you close AND pays reasonably well. There might be a lot of competition for those jobs as well tho.
You can literally get on set though the union as a permit. Different if you’re going down the indie route, but it’s not this hard anymore. My friend went from PA to PM but never worked for free. Ever.
You shouldn't get extra brownie points just because you can afford to work for free. There's plenty of not-wealthy people who wouldn't bat an eyelash at the chance to work hard for free IF THEY COULD without going broke/homeless.
They're not afraid of being exploited, they're afraid of not being able to pay their rent! I'm pretty sure they're not just chilling at home and playing Xbox like he's saying -.- They're probably working? And that free time need to be occupied by something that gives them money to SURVIVE. Wow, that guy really anger me. It should not be normal, stop trying to make it look normal.
I did free internships with top gun illustrators and it led to paid work but more important was the value of my connections. They shared their top connections with me. I've had this connections for nearly 30 years. They still generate revenue and credibility for me. The value you get from quality connections is higher than one-off pay for time
THE reason why most people won't have a career in the film industry is that there is a huge mismatch between demand and supply. That's the reality. There won't pop up more jobs because more people want to work for free. Quite the contrary. You will destroy jobs of people who got paid before, now that you enter the field and work for free. The entertainment industry is a great way to exploit people and make money.
True, but as someone who now works in the film industry i can tell you it is 100% worth the sacrifice if you can get in. You have to balance, it’s a long shot for sure. I passed on so much paid work to earn the attention of the people who would one day give me the shot and often questioned if it was a wise decision. The key is finding the right people to go all in for, everyone will tell you they know someone or they have a huge deal on the table but there’s only a few who genuinely do and will actually put you in position when they get their shot. Best of luck, i was so happy being a low budget filmmaker but being on this side of the industry has completely changed my perspective i want everyone to truly experience the difference for themselves then decide if the sacrifice is worth it bc there is no guarantee you’ll ever make it sadly
This was good advice 35 years ago, not now. I got my first job by volunteering, but that was in the early 80s, and old school management valued a work ethic back then. Now? Hahaha!! Sorry, companies have changed, management is very short term focused and can't think beyond next quarter, and I have seen with my own eyes how they take advantage of college kids who are trying to break into competitive fields. I wish older folks understood how brutal things have gotten for young people. Better advice is down below in the comments: get some technical skills that are in demand and then look for networking opportunities.
I would love to know where the line is between working for free just to get a foot in the door, and not getting taken advantage of. Seems like working for free IS being taken advantage of in about 90% of the cases.
The thing with advice is that you have to realize that all advice even if it is accurate doesn't necessarily apply across the board to everyone. The strategy of working for free on a long term job, really only applies to people living at home, mooching off friends, or that already have some form of passive income. The real reason that many people will never have a career in "Hollywood", is because Hollywood is not truly a meritocracy and is still operating from a slightly elitist foundation. that if you don't have money, the contacts or went to the right schools your odds are very slim that you can get in.
What he's really saying is good relationships is better for your career than hardwork. But everyone who got into a high position based on someone just liking you is very lucky and wouldn't apply to most people.
The people I see who have had the privilege of making movies were financially in the position to do so from the start. They didn't work their way up to it through working in the industry as a grip or whatever. They typically come from middle class families and from an early age had access to cameras and computers.
thank you for this. I'm 24 still in college majoring in English education but instead I want to pursue a career in filmmaking. This video convinced me that I should take the initiations and work from the bottom up with long hours of work even without getting paid. And I have to initiate to make networks with people in the industry before I can actually land my very first job directing a big project. I just wanna do my best in the industry and when I actually make it to the position that I've always wanted to be, I'll look back to the past and be proud of what I've done. I feel like I should've started filmmaking way earlier. But now I'm 24 just about to start off. Am I too late for this? I don't know.. I don't care either. This is what I love and I've always wanted to do it. I don't want to regret not doing it. Wish me luck guys and also good luck to other aspiring filmmakers out there. From a film enthusiast from Indonesia. See you in the future!
After working for NBCu, Warner Bros., and Netflix for 6 years entry level set and office work (pandemic work covid compliance included) I just suffered a major burn out and can honestly and confidentially say I worked really hard. did the things he mentions when nobody notices. and it doesn’t matter. the political systems in place gatekeeping the dream jobs do not care about you. make your own things! ❤
I'm starting to think that filmschool in America VS filmschool in other countries (in my case Belgium) is way different. Because these things are explicitly explained to me when I started going to filmschool.
God forbid we ask for credit and pay. How dare we ask to be recognized for our small part and to be able to pay our bills with a living wage. This is the reason that Hollywood is toxic.
He's not wrong I think in the beginning especially if you don't have any contacts Getting Experience and working for free and showing your work ethic building contacts is the most important thing especially if you don't know any one in the industry I spent years working for free and temping in post houses , production companies and on shoots to be honest not everyone is fortunate to be in a position to afford that . You have to be very strategic cause otherwise you'll end up working for free for too long like I did In the beginning yes make contacts do every job you can especially when you're young or new It's good if you want to just Become a member of the film crew or work in the film industry . If you want to go higher eg. write,direct, or shoot etc you've really got to focus on what your end goal is and and try to work on your own projects as much as you can Because it's Highly unlikely that you'll get the opportunity you want Just by being onset or working for free you've got to be very intentional about where you want to be . I believe in paying your dues and grinding but some would have you pay your dues forever and that is not sustainable I think the Best thing is to start making your own work or putting a body of work together from as early as possible .Everyones journey is different yes work for free ,yes hustle, yes Grind ,yes make contacts but you have to know when enough is enough anyway that's my 2 cents Great content as always
This is nuanced and less dangerous than the view put forward in the video. I don't necessarily agree with you but you have a real story to tell. I think this message is damaging, not just because it is bad advice, but because it normalises bad industry practice. Just because it is legal does not make it right. How much a film's budget goes on crew wages? What would it hurt to actually pay their staff?
I think it's telling that he never mentions how he paid his bills in his early career. I'd at least be interested to know what his living conditions were like.
Hi Adam, this is just one segment from our interview with Shane. If you’d like to know more about his story, here is our full interview ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-VBcQVQ2ZaMI.html
He got offered, up front, a place to stay, travel, and didn't have to worry about buying food at all during his "internship". Negating almost all of a need to be paid outside of washing clothes. How many people hoping for internships are only told no you won't get paid but you'll get some experience, when you can't shelter or eat with experience. People afraid of internships aren't afraid of them, they can't afford them.
Lmfao come to Hollywood with big dreams of becoming a writer/director...get yourself on a set.. work hard for a few years and you might just become a 2nd AD 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣.
LOL 🤣, but for though that's better than nothing! At least one would be in an area where they could find AT LEAST 2 other people in the same position and an understanding of the process that then a project could come together.
Your fault for not having a two times Oscar winner dad or nine times Emmy winner mom like his friend who could magically afford to just hang around sets while making zero money
Remember, kids: If someone is in a position of power it’s because they earned it. Don’t question it. Now quit your whining and pull yourself up by your bootstraps. Only the most driven and talented get to the top. That’s why 99% of movies today are… garbage??🤨
Movies being garbage nowadays is not the fault of the filmmakers though, it's the woke liberal Hollywood elite that ruins these movies with their pandering. People like Max Landis, Sam Levinson, and Sofia Coppola are great examples of how meritocracy is alive and well today. I know you're being sarcastic, but you should do some reading before you come with that woke nonsense. I recommend 12 Rules for Life by Jordan Peterson, or The Ten Commandments: Still the Best Path to Follow by Dennis Prager.
