Biggest Challenge for Orthodox Christianity in America - Fr. Josiah Trenham 

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This is precisely why I simply tell other that I am "Orthodox" with no prefix. This was amazing as always, father!

From Serbian Orthodox: We are all one! I think that America needs American Orthodox Church with American Patriarch who knows american mental code and we all other Orthodox need to help to you. Glory to Father and Son and Holy Spirit. Amen.

Wow. This honest and powerful answer is courageous.

Archbishop Dmitri of blessed memory worked very hard to unify orthodoxy in the south. His funeral was an excellent example of the work he had done as several churches were in attendance.

Herman - I would also like to suggest that you bring more of our Hierarchy onto your channel and have them explain how we get to unity. This could be our biggest opportunity if we fix this!

Fr. Trenham. Though I agree that the Orthodox need to unite for several reasons, I believe the biggest challenge for the Orthodox is having courage facing the secular world that is encroaching upon our faith. Our local Orthodox divisions have varied on the lock down from completely locked down to almost completely open. But they do need to unite for the sake of advocacy.

Preach Father!!! As a catechumen it is an issue for me, but I’m leaving Episcopalianism which is in shambles so there’s that.

The fractured orthodox nationalities in the west makes it SO HARD for native converts. I was so close to choosing catholic on that issue and I know many who have made that choice just because it’s easier! Can you believe it’s easier to convert to a church of pedophiles rather than our orthodoxy!!? And yet if anyone says “why can’t we have an American/British/french patriarch?” WE are accused of nationalism!

Time in The Church runs slowly... much slower than outside of it. This situation is inherited due to the historical immigration from the Orthodox lands. It can't be solved over night especially if one jurisdiction claims rights over others. Pray to God that solution is found.!

You are exactly right! I am just getting into the faith now, and the sorting through of all the divisions here in the US was discouraging. Fortunately, I am determined , but many might be more easily turned off by this. Lord have mercy!! Thanks for sharing this with us.

Honestly, for a year now I've felt a desire to return to the Church, but not the Protestant Churches I knew growing up. I've had an inexplicable draw towards Orthodoxy ever since I found out about it. I remember driving past some of the Greek Orthodox churches when I was a teenager and wondering about them but never gave them much thought beyond that instant. I think people like myself are craving meaning, order and structure as much as they are craving a spiritual life in Christ. More over, Orthodoxy has none of the baggage associated with Protestantism or Catholicism.

I don’t concern myself with the unity of the church because I’m too busy trying to improve my unity with Christ. In my opinion this should come first, worry about the “politics” never.

As a Greek, I 'd like to set forth my view on the subject. Being independent, is a core value of the ancient Greek spirit. As the Greeks invitably became the first European Christians, gradually formed the Church that has become the initial Orthodox Church, that created all the other Orthodox churches in other cultures. The Greeks never tried to impose their culture on others. This is key to Greek mindset, and philosophy. They just carried their manners wherever they went, and people around them appreciated their culture and followed or copied. In all the colonies they created long before Christ, they never tried to convert by force the local population. I do not know of any testament against that. And the Romans came and conquered, and turned Greek eventually, so much. That Greek population, created the initial Orthodox church, incorporating values as this, of their pre-Christian past, as the Greek version of Christianity. It is natural, as the Germans eventually created their version of Christianity accomodating their culture, the English also. And when Greeks brought Christianity in Ethiopia, they even created icons with Black Jesus, in order to make the faith more relevant to the locals. After that, they brought Orthodoxy in Eastern Europe, in non Greek speaking nations. Again, they never tried to impose their language and culture on them, and even created an alphabet for them. Following the unmistakable laws of nature that made the Greek culture and philosophy so acceptable and eternal around the world, Greeks understood that local non Greek speakers would eventually create their version of Orthodoxy as well, and even enabled them to do so. This is the difference of Greeks vs barbarians... Orthodoxy vs globalist Catholicism, Islam, or any other rite that aims to grow globally under a single power center. Greeks historically focused to conquer the spirit of people, not the people themselves. So much Orthodoxy, the Church they initially created. The Orthodox rite, has also a long tradition of respecting independence of local Churches. In stark contrast to the Catholic church. We should not try to become like the Catholic Church, in case you imply something like that. In that respect, I agree with the comment of the Serbian brother here. You should aim to create an independent American Orthodox Church, to accomodate the needs of all American Orthodox brothers, no matter their ethnic background. This American Orthodox Church should of course respect and acknowledge the historic primacy of the Constantinople Patriarchate, but be independent, as all other Patriarchates are, and do. It was evolutionally unavoidable for America to pass the stage of ethnic and fragmented Orthodoxy, but I think that the time has come for all, to accept the creation of the independent American Orthodox church... This will also solve the problem of Russia trying to influence the Orthodox world for you Americans. Having secret services and diplomacy trying to divide Orthodoxy between Russian influenced Orthodox churches and all the rest, will not do the trick... The aim should be for local/national Orthodox churches to be in full communion. Not to create one global Church... This is not natural. This is not Greek... Nevertheless, in case you do not know, for a Greek, Greece, is the whole universe...

Truth ! Father as a catechumen who lives in a smaller community. I found it very difficult to find a parish. Three cities in my area are only supported by a revolving door of changing diocese. I bless those fathers that travel to minister when they can. I travel 240 miles twice a week and am grateful that the Greek Orthodox in Las Vegas ( St John the Baptist)has lovingly embraced me. I have received most of my teachings through you and others on AFR, and PV like Fr Hopko. This division, I humbly believe has restricted brothers and sisters to find salvation in towns and cities with populations under 50,000. (how I distress that my loving children and grandchildren in Idaho Falls) can not receive our Lord through Church. Thank you for your prayers and blessings for us "out in the desert.

Fr. Josiah Trenham is my favourite priest. Greetings from Australia.

Most of Orthodoxy's converts come from Protestantism (as did I). Protestantism has THOUSANDS of divisions/sects which vary in practice and doctrine. Orthodoxy has UNITY of practice and doctrine across the churches of various countries. It is hypocritical for a Protestant to point a finger at Orthodoxy for disunity, and it is a great sin for an Orthodox to accept that spurious charge. Sure we have our little spats about territories, and we have our little differences in hymns, tones, and most revered saints--this is part of the richness of our faith and its ability to equally encompass people of all nations. America is an amalgamation of races and nations which is reflected in the variety of national churches that exist here. Calling this a great sin is overreach, and ungrateful in the extreme. God brought Orthodoxy to the Americas and maintains it through these ancient Patriarchates. Through this diversity, God has provided Americans with choice, and He puts a check on any one Patriarchate becoming the dictator--great blessings in this age of false ecumenism.

The unity of the Orth Churches could certainly bring more catechumens who are sitting on the sidelines waiting, and also save denominations that are in serious trouble and searching. People would be reluctant to coming to the Orth Church if they have just come from or are stuck in a denomination which already suffers from divisions, quarrels and corruption to top it off. Yes, we need to show as true Christians, Orthodoxy has the love of a true Christian and come together. Language is the issue as I see it and there is a balancing act in some parishes to accommodate both and yet many of the people attending now, only speak one language - English. ?? We need your help Fr Josiah....God bless!

God bless you Fr. Trenham. May God bless us with unity through the Holy Spirit. Let us be one of the sources of bridge building and community connections throughout the Church, our Cities, States, Country and throughout the world. One of the most impactful teachings I have growing up in the Church is how welcoming our culture is to visitors. We being just as curious about them as they are of us without feeling pressure or obligated to convert them. I believe God converts us, even those of us born into the faith.

Use your nationally known platform Father..just like this. Combine with others like you and let's get this drive to unity done in our lifetime!

This is truly Christ-like

THIS IS THE ORTHODOX MOMENT: All of the former Episcopalians, and other Protestant groups who have left churches that are no longer Biblical are desperate for a Biblical church. This is the time to , as the Bible says, "Ask for the ancient paths; ask where the good way is, and walk in it" . This statement alone drew me to Orthodoxy once I understood what it truly was: the 2,000 year old church of Christ, not a bunch of ethnic cults that keep to themselves! This is so very true; although I grew up Episcopalian, I lived in an ethnically diverse area. I had many friends who were Russian, Yugoslavian, etc. who were Orthodox. All we knew was that their cross was different, and they celebrated holidays on a different day. When I would ask my friends about this, the impression I always was given was that you had to be Russian to go to Russian Orthodox church, and the Eastern Orthodox people were also divided by nationality. My sister broke her engagement to an eastern Orthodox boy whose parents wouldn't accept her because she was not the right nationality. The thing is, upon investigation, our beliefs were really the same as the Orthodox. If we had understood that, if we had been invited to go, we probably would have converted to Orthodox 30 years ago. Orthodox people need to be more open, and explain that they are the original Christian church. Instead, when you approach them, the attitude is more that it is a Christian ethnic cult that only those of that nationality can ever join. This is what I was raised to believe and basically told by Orthodox friends as far back as grammar school and I am in my fifties. I wish people who no longer want to be Catholic because of all of the abuses and nonagreement with an infallible pope, could be made to understand that Orthodox faith is Christian faith..the faith in Jesus Christ, not Russian or greek faith.

This was one of my biggest problems when considering Orthodoxy.

Fr. Trenham spittin' fire! Go!

I'm just a regular believer (no special denomination) and it seems to me like you love Christ, so I am for you.

Absolutely agree! This has got to stop. Love you Father Josiah! ❤️

Amen. And I'm thankful to be part of a parish with a priest who regularly speaks out against this, as well (and has a popular AF podcast to speak from -- Fr. Evan Armatas, host of Orthodoxy Live and Transforming Our Lives in Christ, speaks on this regularly).

This is true and refreshing. Father talks about the problems that are taboo to speak of. We need unity within the Church. There shall be no division. Yes... I was a Latin that found my home in Orthodoxy. father couldn't be more right. Amen Father. Thank you!

You are exactly correct. I see much in Orthodoxy that is attractive and true and much that is missing or forgotten in the Catholic Church. But I also see a Protestant-style disunity that is holding back the Orthodox church from spreading its message and teaching its understanding of union with God. Here is where the Catholic Church hierarchy including the papacy would be useful to the Orthodox church.

Greetings from Perú!

Thank you, Fr. Trenham! I am an Orthodox inquirer and this was one of the first questions I had...is there a differences between Greek, Russian, and Antiochian Orthodoxy. It was a point I was breifly confused about, and I was unsure if different texts/practices were observed by these branches. Unity within God's Holy Church is surely His intention!

True! This Father is amazing!

Well said father,love your teaching

Thank you Father for speaking truth!

For many years, I assumed that if something was "Greek Orthodox", "Russian Orthodox", etc, that it was really meant for people of that cultural background only. This year, when I've looked into Orthodox Christianity more (I'm currently without a church, and was raised in the Evangelical Free Church), I've finally learned that those labels aren't supposed to matter so much...but the different cultures is absolutely something which previously had kept me from becoming more interested in Orthodoxy, and still does make me hesitant to want to become a part of those communities.

Let us as The Church pray for unity daily. Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on us.

Its something I've been wondering about and the sole thing that seems out of place to me for the last 8 months I've been going to church and reading. My girlfriends dad is a ROCOR priest. We just moved to a new city and I suggested a Greek church, you would've thought I'd suggested a mosque by her response! I can understand preferring one type of choir over another, but the Orthodox church, is the Orthodox church. I would LOVE to see unity in the church, the Orthodox church in America, needs to be the Orthodox church of America. If the Orthodox church in America is self governing, than it must be united.

Profoundly blessed

Perhaps the real concern is where there is little faith, there is little unity. By your fruits you will be known.

This needed to be said ! Thank You Father Josiah ☦🙏

You've perfectly expressed what has been bothering me immensely for a long time. However, good luck trying to express this on any Orthodox message board. Everyone likes to pretend there is no problem.

Outstanding !!!! father thank you !!!! I remember about 10 years ago saying and telling this to my children. I am Greek orthodox and I remember telling my children this very thing in this magnificent video but I must confess the truth , the truth is the truth and I may. be painting a long brushstroke spoke to a Pistorio assistant that I’ve known for decades a friend and great most loving soul regarding this and that is that coming from a Greek culture they have large egos something the Lord detests thank you for so emphasizing the truth the separation of the church is the devil’s delight he and his demons are laughing at this great evil as you so properly phrased it you are a treasure beyond comprehension beyond words , father you are a gift from God to his church and for us his sheep we are so truly blessed and honored to have you as a priest in the orthodox church and as our priest , may God continue to grant you the strength the fortitude and the love for his truth and truth , i and we all love you with ALL our Hearts 🤗❤️🙏🏻

I am NOT being sarcastic here, but as an educator, it looks like you guys need to create some Google Groups to keep larger communities in touch with the touch of a button. I am an American who was baptized in a Russian Orthodox Church in Yalta, Crimea and I do not divide myself from other Orthodox, I don't engage with Catholics in debate, and I consider evangelicals (trinitarian) my brothers and sisters in Christ. Christ said that if they are not against us, they are with us.

I am thankful that when the Greek Church locked its doors in the face of social and governmental pressures in my area that the Russian Churches either stayed open or reopened quickly. Perhaps if we were all under one jurisdiction there would be more strength to oppose the forces that are trying to keep the Churches closed all together.

I wholeheartedly agree with everything Father said. Prior to converting to Orthodoxy as an Evangelical Protestant, it was a huge turn-off for me, finding out that the Orthodox Church was no different from Protestant churches with its many divisions. When I brought this up, the reply was that it has always been this way, that this is the way it is, and it is better to have all these divisions. This is unacceptable. What is worse is the leaders of the various Orthodox jurisdictions seem to not care. The lay people are calling for unity, but it seems to fall on deaf ears.

This message has only gained in importance over the past year. I am a convert from Roman Catholicism to Orthodoxy. I converted due to the influence of a Greek Orthodox Parish near my Church. In my parish the Pastor is not Greek, the Cantor is not Greek and most of the Parish Council and all the latest Converts are not Greek. The youth come to Church on holidays and special vacation. What is most of the time

We are CHRISTIAN ORTHODOX first and foremost, and then if asked, I can specify whether Greek or Romanian depending of ones country origin. If not, as a convert I identify myself as a Christian Orthodox.

I checked in the Philippines and three seperate Orthodox Churches have Parishes here: Russian, Antioch & Greek (through SE Asian Hong Kong). None are on Palawan Island where I am.

The jurisdictional divide is a grave sin that is not necessary in the US. Our bishops need to get over their petty arguments and become the spiritual leaders the church needs, especially right now. If they don’t wake up I fear they are carving their way into the lake of fire and dragging us the faithful down with them

Unfortunately we all know that until the Russian Patriarch changes and one who is willing to stop considering the Church as an extention of his state comes there will be no solution to this problem. The Orthodox Church needs a perhaps ecumenical synod to unite the different parallel jurisdictions of America into one and solve the easily solvable problem of mainting multiple rites under one Bishop but as long as the Russian Patriarchate disagrees with everything that diminishes the Russian influence in America the other Slavic communities wont agree too and coming together in Synods that wont give any positive outcome will make the rift seem even bigger. As it did when the Russian Church withdraw the last moment from the supposedly to be Ecumenical, which ended up merely as Panorthodox, Synod of Crete in 2015. So everyone pray that God enlightens Cyrril or that his successor will be a faithful non-Soviet minded Orthodox who will care about the salvation of the American people.

I pray that what Fr. Josiah says will come true. The problem is that the Greeks have turned Orthodoxy into an "ethnic religion", similar to what Judaism is for the Jews. Look around, have you ever seen a Greek Orthodox Church without a Greek flag on the iconostasis? Greeks are the most nationalistic and ethnocentric of all the Orthodox peoples, do you honestly see them dropping the word "Greek" from "Greek Orthodox Church" anytime soon? Not only in America, go look at what they did to the Orthodox Church of Jerusalem. Even though the members of this church are 90% Palestinian Arabs, the Greeks took over the administration, they added the word "Greek" in front of "Orthodox Church of Jerusalem", they declared all church property in Jerusalem as "property of the Greek nation", and they made it mandatory for the Patriarchate to be an ethnic Greek by birth and citizen of Greece. This means that a Palestinian can never be the archbishop, even though the members of the church are 90% Palestinians. These kinds of racist laws have no place in Orthodoxy. The apostle Paul himself said: "There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus".

Interesting. I didn't know this. My major problems are 1) Orthodox churches are very spread apart. There are zero in my city, and I would be expected to travel quite far to get to the nearest one. 2) No pews. Americans have a strong aversion to standing for long periods.

I personally don't see what the problem would be in forming a single, corporate body of worship in all non-Orthodox countries any more, other than bishops wanting to dominate over all others, along with issues concerning ecumenism. What else?

I’m a “cradle Orthodox”, as they say. I grew up in a steel town with a Russian, a Greek and a Serbian Church. I was very young when the autocephalous OCA came into existence. At that time all services were English with some special things like Paschal greetings in Church Slavonic, English, etc. I was mystified why the Serbian and Greek churches did not join with us because it makes such complete sense. I was told that each wanted to keep their familiar ethnicity. At that time, all churches actually had some members who were from the “old country.” There really were no converts to the faith at that time except for those who married into the Church, and I understand why. We are all Americans and it is time for all of us to be one Orthodox Church. I have lived in several cities since that time. In Dallas we joined the Antiochian Orthodox Church because the Russian Orthodox Church was for the current Russian immigrants and no English was spoken. We attended liturgy there once and no one even spoke to us. I’m in Florida now and there in no OCA church near me, but we do have a Greek, a Coptic and an Antiochian Church, We go to the Antiochian Church which has many converts from various Protestant backgrounds. Our Orthodox members are Greek, Russian, etc, but all services are in English and everyone is welcome here. We enjoy visitors to our church. We have an ethnic food festival every year where wonderful foods from our different backgrounds are served. It’s very popular in our local community as well. I agree that if all the ethnic Orthodox churches would combine, we could make a much bigger impact and I’m sure would have even more converts. We are called to let others know about Christ’s Holy Orthodox Church. We must never let ethnicity divide us. There is strength in unity. Fr. Trenham, is there any progress being made in this regard? ☦️

Fr is totally correct in what he is saying. As a Catholic, I am a big fan of RU-vidr site Bible Illustrated Hands. Boyan is a reader and adherent with the Serbian Orthodox Church , but constantly speaks about the Russian, Bulgarian, Romanian, Greek orthodoxy as adversaries... as those people...

This type of thing reminds me of my family. I wasn't told that my brother had died for 10 years! I found out by accident when talking to one of my aunts. Everybody just assumed that I knew or was told. The church needs more cohesiveness, and I'm not even Orthodox yet. I was brought to it by a year and have an interest in monasticism. Even as a non-member yet, I still see his point. May God guide the leadership and bring peace to this issue.

I’m an interested Protestant inquirer and this is an issue for me. If you claim to be the One Holy and Apostolic Church and yet are not one it is self refuting and diminishes your witness to fidelity. Just being honest.

I would love to see unity but I don't think it's going to happen - at least not any time in the next decade or two, maybe not in my life time. Most ethnic jurisdiction have absolutely no interest in it. We are like a husband and wife who live in two separate houses in the same neighborhood. One of them wants to move in with the other, but the other refuses and is happy living alone. You can't force people to want reunion. Fortunately, the Orthodox Church continues to function and bring in converts - though I'm sure it could be better. In my experience, this is not a huge impasse for most potential converts. I've not personally spoken to anyone who was going to become Orthodox until they realized there are multiple jurisdictions. I'm sure there are a few out there but they're few. I think Fr. Josiah is mostly right but that he's overstating his case.

I have a huge problem with the jurisdiction nonsense. As a convert, it's hard to explain this to people I am trying to bring into Orthodoxy.

Father, there's no Antiochian Orthodox. The orthodox of Antioch are Greek orthodox though they speak arabic in the levant.

I agree with this sentiment. I'm a convert to Orthodoxy, but my conversion was helped along by my partial familiarity with Orthodoxy as someone of Russian/Ukrainian heritage. I imagine the process of getting involved with the Church is often much more challenging to those who encounter a "Greek/Russian/Serbian etc. Orthodox Church" as an outsider to all of those ethnic/cultural groups.

Totally agree, it is like some twisted kind of denominationalism has taken hold of Orthodoxy in America.

My 2 cents in a most touchy issue. Whenever this is brought up, stone throwing seems to start, and for me, a lot of this goes back 100 years. Calendar 'adjustment'. Right now, some are fasting, some are done. It so reminds me of the Pascha dispute of Victor's time, which was finally ended by a non baptized Emperor. Maybe we should go all of the way back to then? Maybe I am heretical in some way, but I observe that very old way for myself, and don't share unless asked. It grieves me that we don't all observe The Nativity on the same day, and this is now over 100 years old. Where did this come from? What is coming from this 'jurisdiction' now with candle services with actual heretics at the Vatican? Yes, I am an Old Calendar person. I tolerate this division, but I see no reason, except secular partying, that promotes it. It kind of forces people to be 'in the world' in some way, IMHO. Tomorrow is the Feast of The Nativity for The Baptist -- for some! But it was two weeks ago for others. No wonder there is division. Love to All!

Thank you Father for addressing the Elephant in the Room!

Why when I try to share the truth of Christ I am called a liar and I am rebuked by people who claim they love Christ. Why nobody listens? They are not part of any congregation, they follow the Bible, not the Orthodox one, but they don't like it a bit. And they are 110% sure they live in the Word.

Can't there be regional association of orthodox churches in the US and Canada? Each association will contain churches from different jurisdictions.

I think the Antiochians and OCA are best positioned to do this, if they can get the EP to instruct its jurisdictions to follow their lead. North America needs a single autocephalous Patriarchate.

The thief on the cross is greater than I, and I am unworthy. America has been weighed in the balance.

So sad and true. As a Romanian living in Romania, I wish our Patriarchy would encourage people in the USA to attend the Orthodox Church in America services, and collaborate with the OCA to find solutions for the recent immigrants who perhaps don't have very good English skills or need some help with transitioning to another type of service, or anything that they might have trouble adapting to. I'm sure they could find solutions - providing translations of liturgy, induction sessions, or whatever other help they might think of. We are organized by nation for various practical reasons, and for the same practical reasons it makes sense that the Orthodox Church in America should be the one to administer and serve the faith in the US. Having a division by nation in the world makes sense, having such divisions within ONE country makes zero sense.

I completely agree with this in theory but in practice the differences are vast. I attend a ROCOR parish even though I'm not Russian because they seem to treat Orthodoxy the most seriously. They haven't capitulated to COVID-derived secular impositions on worship. They resist pernicious cultural marxism. They treat seriously traditions that other jurisdictions might downplay, like head coverings and the Julian calendar. There are many converts and it's not an ethnic club. I would be happy if ROCOR or Antiochian "took over" the entirety of the jurisdiction in America. But utterly appalled if GoArch did the same and I'm at the whims of Elpidophoros. The biggest problems aren't ethnic, they're a values disparity between the conservative ROCOR and Antiochian, and the (often) liberal Greek (with OCA somewhere in the middle.) I don't think unity should come at the expense of compromise, which, given the size and (apparent) power of GoArch, it certainly would. I have no idea about other jurisdictions like Romanian or Serbian, I don't have any experience with them.

I agree with you. We must be united. As for the Greek Orthodox though and so on, I do not think it was used to as a separation fact but rather as to which Church I.e. Patriarch he/she "belongs" to. Growing up I never felt that Russian Orthodox are different than us, it just meant that they are most likely Russians. In today's world though where globalization wants to rule supreme and circular life intrudes into religion I can see that this can cause confusion to the new convert. I for one feel as brother with all Orthodox people. The bigger issue is the "fight" between the heads of the Church. You should not have them. It's not an earthly power struggle is it? We do not want to become Catholics I.e. the power hungry Pope and the schism. The ones that want to destroy our Church put labels like fundamentalists or traditionalists but the truth is one. Do not yield to circular world. You cannot be homosexual and Christian for example, you cannot give your church buildings, the house of God to muslims to perform their service as their god is not our God hence you are defiling the sanctum. Etc etc.

Easier said then done. Orthodoxy might be new in America but places like Greece have had it for so long that the faith and culture and history have become so entwined you can not have one without the other. Trying to remove all the nuances that exist within that is impossible and frankly unwanted. Orthodoxy plays such a HUGE role in our national identity and our national history. I think it would be easier to consider creating an American Orthodox Church rather than trying to remove the identity of cultural Orthodox churches that have been around for more than a thousand years. These churches that were started here in America with national immigrants weren't just houses of worship, they were the community. The church was the school, the church was the social center, the church was the protector. A place where immigrants found the help, connections, protection for this new life in America. A place where the old world traditions,values, language, national and religious holidays could be taught to the new genrations... these churches were highly complex centers for their world. This can not only be looked at from a religion/faith perspective, it just doesn't work like that.

OK, so what is the solution? Constantinople will not recognize the autocephaly of the OCA, and not without reason (I say this as a current member of an OCA parish.) Unless all of us in North America agree to go under the Ecumenical Patriarchate as a step in the direction of an eventual,universally accepted autocephalous church - and I can't see the OCA swallowing its pride in that way - it's hard to see a path out. With respect, Father, this post is unconvincing without some concrete proposal as to how to resolve the situation. Perhaps you have spelled out your specific vision elsewhere and I haven't seen it.

Well, lots of challenges. To one as one church probably will not happen. Which tradition will you use for services? Russian, Greek, Serbian...? You still have a sizable ethnic communities attending church and they feel comfortable in their own traditions. The immigration of these communities is what brought Orthodoxy to America to begin with. But now we have a sizable converts joining the Church. So the situation in America is quite unique and unprecedented in history. The Bishops of the Church should meet and come up with a vision on how to take the Church to more unity. Start it with prayer and fasting. Above all it needs great humility to move forward. Will anyone today get down on their knees and wash a feet?????????

Fr. Josiah Trenham is so correct! Not only does this diocesan, ethnic, separation have to end on an ecclesiastical level, it also has to end on a lay level. Personally, these diocesan separations make no sense. Too many churches hold too tight to the "ethnic labels" of their churches. Not that this is inherently bad,, but this does, sadly, turn many away because they don't feel welcome. Evangelism is something we Orthodox could do much better at as well. Pray on this. Lord have mercy!

I like him but I wish he wouldn't disable comments on his RU-vid page.

Very informative, but The Church should unite and become more understanding. Not point fingers due to being part of a different Chapter or Sect.

How is it that American Orthodox believers are accused of base nationalism when they insist on having a formal, American Orthodox patriarchate even while the existing patriarchates that have jurisdiction here are quite literally national in origin, be they Greek, Russian, Ukrainian, Serbian, etc.? Why do they have the right to their own patriarchate but that same right is denied to an altogether separate, sovereign nation? Is it really the fault of the parishioners themselves and their no-longer-relevant ethnicity/nationality (as most are second, third, or further generation Americans who longer even speak their forebears' language), or might it be simple greed, an unwillingness to relinquish power, on the part of some leaders?

However, Father, I do not believe this is a structural inadequacy, rather it is a consequence of men who rely on their human intellect instead of the Holy Spirit. The greater our combined consecration the greater our freedom from these errors.

I wish there was a generic Orthodox Church. I’d join tomorrow. The ethnic/national/cultural attachments are a barrier. I have to say the Catholics worked this out better.

I'm Irish/German American, and I never even considered going to a Greek or Russian Orthodox Church, simply because of their name.

The various flavors of Orthodox in America, in effect, tell Protestant converts that we are just another set of denominations. This is not Christ's way.

You talk from both sides of your mouth, Father.....

It is a difficult task because it has been neglected for so, so long. Ever since the Ligonier, PA debacle of 1994 when Orthodox Union in America was imminent, the Unity movement fell apart and it was laid to rest by the Hierarchs, very sadly.

Kudos Father Josiah! As an Orthodox Convert for 16 years, I could not agree more with your words. Our problem is bishops (old men) fighting over power and jurisdictions. It is so very sad.

You are a great priest. The refuge is the creed. When you say I believe those 2 words makes us one . It’s personal but yet makes us one . So I respect your thoughts however , “ what ever Orthodox Church you are worshipping in the Bishop name or Greek ,Serbian, or OCA or whatever

Very surprised by Fr Josiah’s comment, someone with whom I usually agree. In contrast in truth Abp Dmitri, Met Isaiah and Bp Basil unified and strengthened Pan Orthodox bonds in the Midwest jurisdictions and the resulting PanOrthodox unity was beautiful and the diversity within like different parts of the same body honoring one another and appreciating differences. I went round to the Antiochian Church and loved the people and different mode of Chant, to ROCOR and loved the gravity and the Greek for the brightByzantine, etc. To this day priests of all jurisdictions here may ask to be on the email lists of other parishes in different jurisdictions and stay in touch daily and there is a common PanOrthodox organization for good works and seminars which is another simple timely communication path. I am stunned that Fr Josiah would not have asked to be on the email list of the Church he loves and mentions. Or that he would have been refused if he had! Perhaps Texas and the midwest or the Heartland are truly friendlier than California?

when Christ in Revelation acknowledges that there are different churches in different areas isn't it just stating an organizational fact? the faith is still the same there is an acceptance of communion between each other isn't there?

We are too obsessed with speaking Greek, acting Greek, loving Greece that we lose our faith - especially amoungst our own youth.

That’s true. Orthodox keeps on dividing and destroying each other.

I agree entirely. I have had this argument for over 20 years myself.

I did... recover. Auckland 2003?? Went to a Coptic priest from Egypt. Radiation on me, physically weak, and exposed to demons. Got stronger and stronger ;;;) Repeated in Perth....

Your talk is dangerously close to the ecumenist heresy.

Very true. Orthodoxy with prefixes seems very tribal. If you are not of that heritage, you are unwelcome. This is why "catholic' did so well as it embraced all different ethnic groups to become one Catholic. If I wanted to become Orthodox, I would have no idea where to go with all those divisions. Esp in the melting pot of America, Orthodoxy seems very out of place and provincial. More power to you, Father Josiah. I hope it matters to all of the Orthodox varieties in the United States. You are right, there is a void which Orthodoxy could fit very well. Good luck

I thought the OCA (Orthodox Church in America) was developed for the American converts. If your family has been Greek Orthodox for hundreds of years they want to continue to feel a little Greek in this country; their language etc.

This was a problem from 1000 years - Byzantine leaders abandoned the love of Christ for Greek Nationality, alienating Slavs, Armenians, Coptic, etc - the reason Hagia Sophia and the early churches are lost. We also lie to ourselves and rationalize icons.

I'm looking into the orthodox church but it's hard to want to join when it feels like the souls of Americans are less important than the ethnicity of Greeks, Russians, Serbians, Bulgarians, etc. people in the church will complain about how corrupt the American sense of good, and evil is while not evangelizing, not teaching, not fixing it's jurisdictional issues, not helping the poor, not helping the sick, and then instead of using it's resources for any of that it will have classes, celebrations, etc. to preserve ethnic heritage.

As a catechumen (for several years waiting in a parish that lacked the resources for my catechesis), I do not draw any distinction or division. I moved recently and went from a GOArch parish to an AOCANA parish. My parish is an interesting case study in this, because it is an incorporated former EOC parish, operated by AOCANA, but the cantor (son of the old Priest) is the head of the OCA Hermitage down the street from the Parish Church, and the metropolitans are in on this arrangement, and one of the deacons is from a Greek monastery. I am a bit concerned, and maybe I should ask the bishop when he visits next week, that the Hermitage to the south seeks to build a chapel despite the Parish Church being there rather than resolve the issue to unity at the level of this town.

This division has occurred because the Greek orthodox church has gone totally woke. The current American archbishop has soft possessions on abortion , Police support, and homosexual/transgender movement. The current Greek Orthodox archbishop priest walked with the Marxist group black likes matters, and gave the invocation for the Democratic convention. Orthodox church needs to remain neutral on a political basis, and must be clear on loving the sinner and hating the sin. The current GOA arch bishop of America said that the Virgin Mary‘s choice to give birth to Christ, is similar to the choice of every woman to either abort or not abort her child. What a demonic comparison; as a result, the other orthodox faiths in America cannot be in communion with such heresy.

As a 34 year old Protestant who got his masters in divinity I didn't know that Greek Orthodox and Russian Orthodox were the same group of believers. I thought it was equivalent to Baptists and Methodists.