Yes absolutely right BJP/RSS has Talibanize Hinduism. For me there's is no difference between Taliban & the associate organizations like Bajrang Dal,VHP,Durga bahini etc. of RSS having same Hardline approach to every problem.
@@Nikhil-jg4qk tum nahi hum khatam karenge. Desh ka har woh janta khatam karega jo har dharm ko maanta hai aur har caste ko maanta hai. Koi unch neech nahi.
Pawan Verma is very right when he says Talibanism of Hinduism. He has rightly indicated the caste segregation in Hinduism. People ought to be intelligent enough to stop the divide by BJP.
You want to remove caste segregation? Remove the reservation, ban the caste based parties stop muslim appeasement and wolah you have a truly liberal India.
@@phanikishoreavadhanula8652 Good luck with that. The so called anti reservation party, BJP, just made such a big change to give reservation to more people by adding more to OBC list as per sstate requirements. And it was passed unanimously. So here comes Patel, Maratha and Jaat reservations. But to remove reservation people have to be treated equally also. And caste is a real thing in India. General public realize about that when we dont get admissions in the college or are not promoted in government jobs because we are not of SC or OBC. Other than that we are the privileged people who are never told what their caste is.
@@jyotpurohit9435......THATS THE PROBLEM WITH YOU GUYS....THE MOMENT SOMEONE POINTS OUT SOMETHING NEGATIVE ABOUT YOUR COUNTRY YOU START ATTACKING THEM OR POINTING OUT PROBLEMS OF OTHER COUNTRIES, OR ATTACK OTHER RELIGIONS....WHY????? YOU GUYS DONT HAVE THE CAPACITY OR CAPABILITY TO ACCEPT ANY KIND OF CRITICISM,, LOOK AT IT WITH A VIEW TO ACCEPT ITS TRUE AND CHALLENGE IT TO CHANGE IT FOR THE BETTER YOU GUYS GET ALL EMOTIONAL AND INSULTING.......ITS TIME TO BE HONEST WITH YOURSELVES, TO LOOK WITHIN WITH SINCERE HONESTY, AND TO ADMIT THAT THINGS ARE GOING DOWNHILL FAST AND ITS TIME FOR CHANGE
@@phanikishoreavadhanula8652 Only a fool would believe ending reservation would remove caste discrimination. Reservation is only present in higher education and govt jobs. Go to places in UP without higher education and govt jobs , according to your logic such places have no discrimination , but is it so ??
We Indians need to keep religion where it should be. Indoors and personal. otherwise we will be the next Pakistan or Afghanistan but of different color
@@shubhamrathod6859 prayers from temple and churches can go on as well. you should stop putting "culture" and "hindu" in one line and say its about "hindustan". Hindustan, Hind, Bharat, India and many other names.... historically has been Hindu, Bhuddist, Jain, Sikh, Christian and many more we dont even know. everyone should have their own relationship to God
Kindly watch: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-PyQQPqwIryo.html USA created TALIBAN and AL QUEDA in 1970's. RSS-BJP's rise to political power in India was heavily influenced/helped/facilitated by Pakistan sponsored terrorism, ISI-TALIBAN-AL QUEDA-LASHKAR-JAISH-TERROR axis. Pakistan sponsored terrorism essentially is US-Britain sponsored terrorism. This actually polarized India and paved the way for political subversion in India. RSS backed deep state got the benefit.
While it was a very enthralling conversation, I can't help but notice the contrast when Pavan Verma was talking against the marxist historians, Nehru Karan kept on interrupting him, barely letting him complete his response but in the later part when the conversation steered towards the current dispensation Karan turned very docile, a lot less argumentative and repeating, garnishing Pavan's words after he uttered them. Unfortunate that journalists these days barely manage to disassociate from their bias, instead they proudly make it very apparent. That being said, never thought of Pavan Verma as a man of such great substance, very articulate and eloquent, he is being wasted in JDS, he deserves better.
We all know Pavan Verma as a well grounded bureaucrat, he now comes across as a scholar and historian as well. A person of his stature and eminence should hardly meddle with that great cesspool called Indian Politics. No political party, not just JD(S) deserves such a person. All parties together are combining their talents to spell doom for this nation.
Well, discussion related to Nehru was an interesting one because people had differing interpretations of the text they had read. What do you want him to contradict related to the current dispensation? There is hardly anything that can be argued in their defence. Minorities being lynched, journalists being killed, innocent people being put behind the bars and the list goes on and on. No person in his/her moral state of mind can defend the indefensible. Moreover, no person in this world can be biased-free just as you show your own bias by labelling him as Nehru Karan. One can be as objective as they want, but not 100% biased free.
Hinduism was removed from Afghanistan, yes it is doing well.. Hinduism was uprooted in Pakistan, yes it is prosperous.. Hinduism was decimated in Bangladesh and Yes it is harmonious… Minorities are prospering in India, but Hindus are majority.. and that is the problem.. Sick of these guys
If they are sitting in a country and calling the government bad their heads would have been h. nging somewhere in kabul. if that is not happened then they are not in taliban rule and they have freedom and hope people realize that
Giving due credit to hindu civilization would be to tell more about mauryas , cholas , chalukyas ,their architecture , the wars they fought their administration , promote classical dance and language and literature not to make Hinduism a semetic , bigoted and insecure religion . Renaming things to Deendayal Upadhyaya and Savarkar won't help.
Perfectly put but still like a previous comment mentioned, we are taught about the previous empires,their wars, their administration and architecture. (Atleast in CBSE & ICSE) Edit: And in my school, we had option of choosing theater classes, alot kid took classical dances and used to perform at School events.
@truth so. What you are doing here.... And if unnave guts, go and report... .and last....don't watch , .go and see modi channel....zee. aaj tak.. ... Don't come here......
After Shashi Tharoor, we have Verma ji! This interview is shocking to say the least! I would turn around and say that Verma ji may be well intentioned ( I doubt it!) but he has inadvertently acted like a spokesperson of Hindutva ideology! India's ancient past had many influences! Whether you call it Hindu is a matter of choice. What about Indus civilization? What about dravidian legacy? What about the Lokayata? His critique of persons like Romila Thapar, Amartya Sen and Nehru whose interest in and knowledge of India's ancient past, I am sorry to say, even Verma ji cannot match, is mischievous to say the least. If these are the faces of india's liberals, then I am worried about the future of this country!
Kindly watch: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-PyQQPqwIryo.html USA created TALIBAN and AL QUEDA in 1970's. RSS-BJP's rise to political power in India was heavily influenced/helped/facilitated by Pakistan sponsored terrorism, ISI-TALIBAN-AL QUEDA-LASHKAR-JAISH-TERROR axis. Pakistan sponsored terrorism essentially is US-Britain sponsored terrorism. This actually polarized India and paved the way for political subversion in India. RSS backed deep state got the benefit.
This has been an unbelievably incredible discourse, punctuated with such intellectual vigor and human integrity, one would rarely expect to get to see. Absolutely awesome!!!
I'm on Karan's side, Nehru didn't look down on Indian civilization. Read " Kon hai Bharat mata, by Mr Agarwal, it contains Nehru's writings and speeches which are emphatic to bolster Nehru's fondness for India's civilization. However he unequivocally deplored some regressive, narrow, parochial, dehumanizing practices such as caste, unfounded superstitions and frivolous communalism.
For sure... But most of the people wouldn't agree with it. Reason is there prejudice against a group/community. That's what leading the weakening of pluralistic culture of our country which will eventually lead to a lot of chaos.
@@fatimachaudhri5655 whatever global standing India has today is due to this Bhakts in every field. You people have no contribution other than being the reason for India's massive expense, to buy security apparatus every year .
I agree mostly to pavan varma that hindu renaissance should take place, and the last part about BJP, I feel people are choosing hindutva as a political shield for hindu renaissance which they think is definitely required to face aggressive political aspects of Abrahamic religions in the world of aggressive islamist jihadism and church missionaries...As long as the Abrahamic religions behave in the same way as they did in the past...they keep feeding hindutva to the core....
We have buried our past and never dwelled on it so we dont hurt the minority community-- the appisode of Banda Bahdur and GuruTegbahadur ji should be part of our history books and how brutally they were killed
India has to learn from Afghanistan. We are going a wrong way right now.. if we don't correct right now, we are heading towards a disaster. And all rational and peace minded people from both religions need to oppose all kinds of extremism.
What an amazing civilised discussion,Its a viewer's delight to watch these type of thought provoking intellect dialogue exchange between two mavericks , which is actually at the verge of extinction coz of high decibel electronic media.Karan and Pawan you always set the bar high for peaceful dialogue and discussion.
If we had been taught all the past glories in our history lessons, we would have done so much better. Knowing you had a wonderful past, helps make a great future. We don't always have to prove anything to anyone then.
Hinduism had always been inherently pluralistic in its approach towards everything and that's how we have such richness and variety of thoughts even on the most trivial aspects of life. An ideology which promotes authoritarianism and discourages dialogue can never aptly represent this great civilisation, let alone protect it. Thanks to these gentlemen for deliberating on such key aspects!!!!!
The Muslim rulers are gone. The Britishers are gone. The self-proclaimed “upper” caste Hindu has been in power for over 70 years. Why are Dalits still marginalized and discriminated against? What are the hypothetically labeled “lower” caste “HUMAN BEINGS” treated like they don’t deserve equal rights and respect? Which Muslim ruler is responsible for this “Hindu” suffering?
My dear fellow, the caste system did not begin 70 years ago, and it isn't going anywhere for a while. In fact, some of the best Hindu reforms were implemented during British rule. Amidst all this demonisation of the British, the Mughals and the Congress, it's rare to see a comment like yours on social media today. Unfortunately, we are dealing with a lynch mob, and Reason is not one of their strong points.
Thank you, Mr Karan, for giving such a intellectual treat, especially for lay persons like us 👍 you braught out such a wonderful discussion on such an important issue, as always 👍 it was also very interesting to see interuptions from Mr Pavan Varma, when you pointed out, very rightly, the misconceptions regarding Nehru & ancient Indian culture, but over-all, it was ver very enlightening debate, It was great to see Mr Pavan Varma so candidly accepting the BJP-RSS undermining of Hindu religion. 👍🙏
Pavan Verma is articulate and assertive. He is entering in an academic field where Romila Thapar and Amartya Sen have achieved excellence. They are writing for public. Pavan Verma is bringing discourse of Hinduism once put forth by N. C. Chaudhari, a par excellence scholar of Hinduism. He needs attention like N. C. Chaudhari.
@Ashok Rajpal This is ridiculous. There was Sir Tej Bahadur Sapru snd do many other Hindus with titles. Every period has titles based on priorities. Now titles are being given to Hindus as Hindus by your logic in a secular country. The British were conquerors and they got support from large number of Hindus and Sikhs and Muslims. Identify them also not by just titles. Understand their scholarship. It appears your basis is hatred. It has no limits and no logic.
@Ashok Rajpal There were stooges of all religions helping the British. Read diaries if Jeevan Lal who got pension from the British as helped them during the 1857. History is comlex not to be divided on religion. You hate the British but as per their scheme of things. Liberate your mind. No one has tried history of loyalty. Explore it. You will be surprised. Even now people are acting as Hindus even against laws and feeing proud. Nation is not build on such bases.
@Ashok Rajpal If religion is an European construct then you are suffering from it as your entire thinking is based on Hindu Muslim division. You will say it is a way of the. All religions claim so. How have you claimed that I don't know background of the Thapar family? You simplify and rush to hate certain persons and things. It is your way. Carry on. I have worked on the history of loyalty and results are surprising. Religion has nothing to do with loyalty. Rulers cultivate loyalty for certain purposes. These persons carry and get rewards. Nothing more nothing less. Broadly, two processes are at work: help in administrative functions. Second, help in intelligence or flaring up communal passions. First is rewarded in public but second underhand. There were certain persons getting pensions from the British. They are now lionized as leaders. Certain surprises persist. One was when a Muslim lawyer was blackfaced in the courts in Lahore in Pakistan a few decades earlier as his grandfather was a witness against Shaheed Bhagat Singh. Pakistan is an Islamic Republic and people did not spare a Muslim.. History is complex and serious discipline.
@Ashok Rajpal Loyalty does not need intellect. Even in modern times. Intellect is against the grain of loyalty. This is how nations degenerate as pigmies. More the loyalty, more rewards. History shows that loyalty stinks in the process.
If they are sitting in a country and calling the government bad their heads would have been h. nging somewhere in kabul. if that is not happened then they are not in taliban rule and they have freedom and hope people realize that
Karan Thapar Sahab, allow me to share some hard facts based on my over 20 years of living in West. They have one excellent and outstanding quality which the colonies they ruled on, did not earn from them even today. So, let me state it in an explicit manner. The most positive thing about the Western culture is they "record everything in writing". It ensures the "liability" aspect in every day functioning of governments, institutions, healthcare and other services. It is also one of the five reasons for the West continuing to be among the developed nations, despite different ups and downs since Industrial revolution, WWI or Great Depression era about 100 years ago. Imagine from school days every school prepares its "year book and photos of its class and students are recorded". It shows the significance and at the root lies the need to record things in a documentary manner. It does not end at the building a record of growing school kids starting from their kindergarten records. Even the paintings, sculptures, furniture, houses, mansions, musical instruments such as piano, guitars, etc which they construct or build have the names inscribed at some location of the year, name etc. On the other hand either deliberately or otherwise the colonizers ensured this practice, if at all it prevailed, is destroyed which by design has favoured their rules getting strengthened in those occupied nations.
Tell me something. Is a civilisation's greatness defined only by its external ornamentations? Sure, we have great literateurs in Sanskrit and other Indian languages. We have ancient architecture which exudes grandeur. Indians regardless of their political orientation and religion have acknowledged this every time. Taking pride in the aforementioned, is not something which is a priority in current times. Pride in India's civilisational achievements in various spheres of life was needed as a moral boost during British colonial era. Its purpose has been served, for now it has been over 75 years of a largely united, peaceful Independent India. Now, the focus should be on reinforcing the foundations of our modern republic, one which were laid down in the Constitution in 1950. Liberty, equality, fraternity - these values were borrowed from France and adapted to in India for a reason. It was realised by our so-called anglophile "elites" (which many today pejoratively refer to Nehru & Co.) that while an Indian national identity has successfully been established, it was now time to embark on a much more difficult project, i.e. to accord liberty, equality and dignity to the 'individual' of India. And this could not have been realised at all by harking back to these "external ornamentations" of our great civilisation, for its very greatness is also the product of unequal and discriminatory systems which had been ingrained as a norm to deny the individual his liberty, equality and dignity. That is why, it is necessary today that we reinforce the three aforesaid values of our modern republic, not by harking back to the past as the Sangh does, but by looking towards the civilisation that has achieved this to a considerable extent, i.e. the West. Looking towards the West for inspiration (or even the Far East for that matter) does not mean that our identity or our existence is under threat. It means, that to live a dignified life as an Indian, regardless of his/her background, one is adapting all that which can help him/her to achieve that ideal. That's all.
Kindly watch: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-PyQQPqwIryo.html USA created TALIBAN and AL QUEDA in 1970's. RSS-BJP's rise to political power in India was heavily influenced/helped/facilitated by Pakistan sponsored terrorism, ISI-TALIBAN-AL QUEDA-LASHKAR-JAISH-TERROR axis. Pakistan sponsored terrorism essentially is US-Britain sponsored terrorism. This actually polarized India and paved the way for political subversion in India. RSS backed deep state got the benefit.
the Indian ctizens are responsible for current mess and more which will follow. They remained ignorant thru generations and orange brigade used this ignorance of theirs to fuel their lust for blood, revenge and more power/greed.
@JUST ONE I never said that we need to talk to Taliban. But BUT-LICKING and BOOT-LICKING of USA must stop because USA and Britain is the creator of terror apparatus.
Hinduism has lot of tolerance. But not for Hindutva (BJP RSS) They just pretend aa Hindu saviours for their own agenda. But no Development in India India Gdp is 4% just before covid in 2019 September. If Mughals had ruled India like BJP then how cam they achieved 25% gdp ?? This is world Record.
@truth To your comment 3 statements are raised Answering each one 1. RSS is not full form of taliban its moto is same as Taliban, all know what happened in 2002 in Gujarat, Delhi. 2.wire is Not publishing against Hindus It is publishing facts which are in course against to RSS not Hindus. 3. Zizia Tax is 2%, while zakat for Muslims is 2.5% That to Zizia is not implemented from Akbar period except period of Aurangzeb. Later Aurangzeb successors removed zizia. I think Zizia tax is much less than current tax rates like GsT, Now we have much more types of taxes than those days. Even In History more tax collectors are not Mughals British India collected 50% tax in some areas. So please go through facts. Just because of that additional 2% no economy will achieve 25% share gdp in the whole world Just common sense bro. Study books like a bureaucrat. Not like autocrat.
@truth 1.I said read books like bureaucrat. Not bureaucrats will definitely watch wire. Stick to my point only. Don’t assume you’re statements and don’t keep them in my Mouth. 2. What bad things exclusively Indian Muslims did ? Which No Hindu did?? To show on The Wire.
Really great discusdion.It is highly knowledgeable and speaks of actions which ruling party should take.One thing i have understood that this great country must be led by people who have read and understood the true hindism and guide the nation.
The debate doesn't hold much as it has been won by karan. He has argued here that the word "exceptional" being used in the context of Muslim rulers' atrocities - is unwarranted, and shall hold no ground when compared to world history. Vikings btw were quite an accurate reference. Pavan rather could have mentioned that the lack of knowledge about world history is of no consequence here as India is unique in terms of its geopolitical history and that India had relatively higher degree of warranted tolerance and acceptance of newer, different faiths. Although ground was lost by Pawan, the initiation of debate-specially regarding Deprivation of acknowledgement and regard for a golden post- is NICE. For Europe afterall, the Renaissance did occur. They forgot to forget and started remembering, acknowledging and building upon the rich Greek history.
A civilizations which didn't even have an name for itself LMAO.... The word Hindu is given by Persians which is the official name of the religion. The great mauryan empire was an era of buddhist and Jain culture.
The concept of Hindu as single religion is a new concept. Invasion of Aryans destroyed the existing civilization. The latter history/mythology was dominated by the Aryans. Where do you place the Adivasees or the mulnivasees in the Indian context? What about the history of Dalit oppression? The upper class Indian's hate towards muslims is directly related to their feeling towards the shudras and dalits, as most of the Indian muslims came from these societies. Why education was only limited to Brahmins, Kshatriyas and Vaisyas? The new world's concept of equality for all humans doesn't go very well with any encient civilization, let alone the Indian context. Unnecessarily praising of our old rich past can only give birth to neo fascism. That's the lesson, the history taught us.
Let's just interview Nehru for once. We remember him everyday for all the mistakes. Everyone blames him for literally everything. Let's just interview him and put an end to everything!!😎😎
This is the very reason I admire and believe Karan Thapar to be the most competent journalist of this era >does thorough homework before interviewing the interviewee >has adequate knowledge & grasp on the topic discussed >'makes' the interviewee elaborate on claims they make loosely based on their own prejudice or interpretations >never lets intervee dough from the question asked by justifying another wrong to prove his point >precise framing of the questions with choicest of words >abrupt spontaneous counter to contradictory claims >achilles heel of the interviewee is very well pinpointed and struck if or when required >does an interview only when there is a worthy topic and worthy interviewee to speak on that topic N much more.. That's y ppl avoid getting interviewed by him as they fear from being left exposed and speechless
It was MK 'Mahatma' Gandhi who first used the Hindu equivalent of Taliban for political purposes to advocate ban on beef, meat, and alcohol. His political success and elevation to sainthood set the precedent for all future politicians to exploit. It was his party, the Congress, which started the trend of using the power of government to enforce these bans in the name of religion on the unwilling public. Do Mr. Karan Thapar or Mr. Varma have the guts to state this politically incorrect truth?
It's so cute when you say that BJP is making Hindus do this and do that as if we don't have a brain of our own and cant see the blatant atrocities that are bring committed on Hindus.
@@phanikishoreavadhanula8652 I tend to agree with this. A lot of Hindus blame the British or Moghuls for divisive politics but the divisions already existed, colonial entities did a good job of exploiting it. They didn't come here to clink teacups with us, we should've been better prepared.
Bjp n rss have mastered the art of receiving support from the same sections of Hindus (Bahujans) they exploit and discriminate against. They install a bogus obc as a puppet pm and dilute obc reservations (since 2014 obcs quota in NEET was suspended upto 2021 …until forced by social media driven campaign n nearing of UP elections), they build ram temple but there’s no place for obc as priest, they talk of development and privatise even profit making govt companies which provided employment to obcs due to reservations…..All this just by creating the bogey of ‘Hindu khatre mein hai’ …
It is really hilarious. Karan Thapar and Varma giving us lessons ! Comparing BJP with Taliban ? If they are such fools, they should go and live with Talibans. Also should take their sisters, daughters and mothers with them. We will gladly welcome back them after 1 year and hear their views again.
Past is past and it should not be discussed. Mughals and Britishers were won the land as much as they can win as not Muslims or Christians but that practice was in existence in those days. That happened not only in India but had happened in whole world.
When in Rome, do as Romans do. When in Asia do as your neighbours do. Our idealism has caused immense suffering for a thousand years. It’s time to be swinging in between radicalism and idealism.
Buddhism was born in India but Hindu Kings threw it out of India and very few Buddhist were left in India. The Muslim kings did not throw Hindus out of India. So what "DEGREE' is Pavan talking about?
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 muslim king throwing Hindus who were far more superior in skill and knowledge in every walk of life.. What a joke, then what would the muslim king's do??? Get their unskilled subjects from turkey???🤣🤣🤣 Alice in wonderland!!
But the host can't interrupt the guest every single time to stop him from finishing his sentence. He does it in every episode and repeats his statements thrice to elongate a 10minute video to 40minutes.
@@nageshrajan5633 well, i think that's just the unique dynamic of a Karan Thapar interview. his intent for interrupting the speaker is only either to ensure the speaker is answering the question or to keep the speaker on point and not stray into an indulgent monologue.
Yes you said rightly 👍To fight तालिबानी mentality, we need तालिबानी हिंदुत्व. तालिबान is not the monopoly of certain group of people. जहर को जहर ही काट सकता है. If hindus need to survive, they must go according to circumstances. That era was over when we used to think as tolerant and bow down before everyone. when the history has taught us a lot, We don't want to repeat the history. Jai hind 🚩🇮🇳
It is sickening. Guest is well aware of the glorious Hindu civilization but yet keeps defending Nehru knowing that Nehru sidelined all of these. You can't build a republic on lies.
Comparing BJP-RSS with Taliban is a sheer stupidity. Afgan people are leaving Afganistan lest they are executed by Taliban. Particularly, woman and children - they are feeling highly unsafe as Taliban has come back in Afganistan. Forget about Hindus, are Muslims running away from India if they are afraid of BJP-RSS ? In India Muslim( minority are more safe ) than in pakistan and Bangladesh (where Hindus are highly unsafe). Because of these fools like pavan verma and their foolish statement , people of India have lost interest in politics. I am not BJP or RSS. But, I know BJP or RSS have no record of killing millions of innocent people. Another important point. Mr Pavan verma knows very well that there is no risk or no harm if he speaks ill of BJP/RSS. Nobody will harm him. He will never venture to speak against Taliban or ISIS in any open forum , for there is physical risk for him or any other speaker who dare to speak against them.
Great interview. It opened up my eyes and leads to a path which we, as Indians ought to take, to realise the greatness of our past. Excellent sir. Many thanks.
We must learn India is a multi cultured country , and diversity is so great , it's no doubt Nehru understood , the real fabric of this country is the intimidating approach of the people , to live side by knowing history in past , participate in every bit in terms to build India as a one nation . Nehru was a visionary personality , to smell the perfume .
When in comes to Hindus, these guys expect lack of respect, pride, and self esteem as mandatory qualities for a secular outlook. At the same time, they see nothing wrong in overt demonstration of religiosity in other communities Thid comes from decades of Hindu bashing with impunity as a mark of secularism. Have you ever seen them appreciative of anything Hindu?
This is the best thing that could ever happened to India. I love BJP and RSS, they are going in the right direction. Sooner or Later, greater things will happen either India will survive or It will be like Syria.
@@advityat we is simple 40 crore Hindus( jain Buddisht sikhs ..RC ..Mus) who voted for Modiji and 10 crore Hindus who supported Modiji ..got it ? ..Thapa am from TN and belong to Malaysia Hindu tamil group we love Modiji ans Rss like anything ...you can create your own nation in Indian ocean if you want 😂😂😂😂
I still think of my poor father (deceased) who pleaded with me not to go back to India. I went for a visit, and relived his words every day. Thank God i was able to return to Australia. I realised the fate of many Indians who seem to go unnoticed. India has been hijacked by the comfortable class, who are wealthy and oblivious of those who have less.
Civilisation is not all about buildings and monuments, but character of a nation. And religion is not all about performing rituals, but building of characters. If you want to judge a nation see their characters, and judge any religion see it's efforts on character building. Discipline is crown of nation and character is crown of religion, which completes the definition of civilisation.
There maybe some good things in past indian civilization like so many other civilizations in the world...there is nothing world beating about it...All religions and civilizations have had their time of golden age including so called islamic golden age. But these old civilizations have numerous bad things in them when u do glorification of these old ages then ur feeding a ultra conservative right wings forces which would be destructive for progressive change.
Kindly watch: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-PyQQPqwIryo.html USA created TALIBAN and AL QUEDA in 1970's. RSS-BJP's rise to political power in India was heavily influenced/helped/facilitated by Pakistan sponsored terrorism, ISI-TALIBAN-AL QUEDA-LASHKAR-JAISH-TERROR axis. Pakistan sponsored terrorism essentially is US-Britain sponsored terrorism. This actually polarized India and paved the way for political subversion in India. RSS backed deep state got the benefit.
Kindly watch: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-PyQQPqwIryo.html USA created TALIBAN and AL QUEDA in 1970's. RSS-BJP's rise to political power in India was heavily influenced/helped/facilitated by Pakistan sponsored terrorism, ISI-TALIBAN-AL QUEDA-LASHKAR-JAISH-TERROR axis. Pakistan sponsored terrorism essentially is US-Britain sponsored terrorism. This actually polarized India and paved the way for political subversion in India. RSS backed deep state got the benefit.
Kanheman, in his brilliant work on cognitive psychology, explains how a largely painfree experiece leaves a bad memory if its climax is painful. Could it be that people like Nehru, Romila Thapar and Amartya Sen, who are from a generation that lived & experienced the painful end of a long struggle for freedom, tended to focus on the reasons why we were colonized so easily, rather than a distant past when our civillization had been very productive?
if All Genuine followers of the religion stop giving them air, the mad will deflate after going hyper for some time. just stop voting and giving them air. WE NEED TO COME TOGETHER FOR NEW WORLD A NEW SYSTEM. away from the old. have to get along, whatever happened in the past no one can change it Muslims Hindus and atheist alike... just my opinion...
The guest saying we must take pride in Kalidasa etc. sounds ironic when we have a society that looks down upon humanities, social sciences & arts stream, and STEM field is encouraged by every1 in all positions of authority (arent ppl abusing humanities & isnt funding for humanities research under threat?). Maybe including humanities subjects in STEM programs will help kindle enough curiosity in students that they'll read advanced/nuanced works about these areas in their later years & understand the deeper essence about certain topics in these areas. PS: digging up & interpreting ancient texts abt vedic math comes under mathematical history, a humanities study area. Its easier for a linguistics major to study math for reaearching math history, than for a math major to study an entire ancient language for researching on same subject. Hence humanities > STEM for this example.
That's a really interesting perspective. I suppose India still has a caste mindset even when it comes to compartmentalizig vocations where there are "aboves" and "beneaths" and as a result of which we have few sectors that do well while others remain terribly under-developed like child psychology, management of civic spaces, environmental policies etc.
Kindly watch: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-PyQQPqwIryo.html USA created TALIBAN and AL QUEDA in 1970's. RSS-BJP's rise to political power in India was heavily influenced/helped/facilitated by Pakistan sponsored terrorism, ISI-TALIBAN-AL QUEDA-LASHKAR-JAISH-TERROR axis. Pakistan sponsored terrorism essentially is US-Britain sponsored terrorism. This actually polarized India and paved the way for political subversion in India. RSS backed deep state got the benefit.
There's a reason that Rajju Ganit, sulba sutras etc were left unappreciated rotting in religion or sanskrit philosophy departments for so long even after independence. It of course needs collaboration of language experts as well as math experts. One needs to give credit where its due. It has happened after Modi govt, that research grants and departments have been created for it. It seems Humanities in India actively prevented serious research in this area. Not 1 dedicated department to study rich Indian past and make documentris and knowledge around it. It has to deliberate as pawan verma also points out.
Mr. Pawan seems to be only illiterate orthodox fanatic religious fanatic . He says most of the people didn't know about Kalidas . The only quality he has that he is speaking in English to pose that he is very educated . He is Saffrons pawn in the present scenario. To that extent he will rejected by all Historians .I strongly condemn his views
I too felt like u, but then i perceived a mismatch of 2nd half of interview with first half, i.e. the arguments seemed like schizophrenia or split personality disorder. I think the guest is not able to put his finger accurately on the problem he is trying to articulate. My wild guess is that he actually meant to say that we cherry-pick stuff from history & r largely indifferent to almost all aspects of history like art, science, politics, religion etc. We hv 2-3 generations of ppl who, in pursuing STEM education, have lost the essence of humanities education. It is tragic that we hv replaced nuances & fuzziness in aspects of human experience (daily lifestyle, philosophy, literary & performing arts, anthropology etc.) with cause & effect linear relationships (e.g. "they" became plunderers after "they" converted) & stupid equations (e.g. "their" growth = "our" extinction).
Today having enjoyed IFS powers, Mr. Pavani Varma today can talk anything. People of Independence struggle were burdened with their struggle, not with who was our king then and all that bla bla.
Pavan Verma upsets a lot of toadies and sycophants of the old regime that's hopefully crumbling. A new generation needs to take its place. Notice no straight answer on why the so called history book spent chapters on Mughal dynasty and was silent on Vijayanagar and Cholas. Sick and tired of communist gaslighters. And chamchas.
Coincidence or Clever Plan - 1947 saw Gujaratis Corporates and Gujarati Political Leadership (Gujarati Raj) replacing the Old East Indian Company and British Government (British Raj). Mahatma Gandhi, Sardar Patel & Moraji Desai (Prime Minister & 2nd Most Powerful Men during Nehru reign), Mohammed Ali Jinnah, Feroze oJahaghir (alias Feroze Gandhi Father of Rajiv Gandhi and GrandFather Of Rahul Gandhi & Priyanka Vadra Gandhi ), Narendra Modi, Amit Shah all are of Gujaratis origins..Also to the list includes India’s Oldest Corporate, Largest Corporate, also the Most Number Of Corporates, 90% Of Fugitive Corporates - why are all of Gujarati Origin? Petroleum & Petrochemical - Largest And all major private companies are owned by Gujaratis. Telecommunications - With GOI support largest company is made to grow (how all rules where changed for JIO to grow from scratch to largest in 3 years time). Defense - 75% of indigenous Defense Contracts are awarded to Gujarati Companies. Ports - 90% of Private Ports In India is handled by a single Gujarati Corporate. Airports - Recently GOI gave 6 Airports to a Gujarati Corporate for alms. Now the status of Financial City Of India is stolen from Mumbai to Gujarat Ahmedabad by Modiji fraudulently. Now the Payment Sector (all cash & online transaction clearances) which was done by Government Sector is going to be Transfer to Reliance. Many more sectors also share same picture. How come Majority of Pakistanis and Chinese Companies Established in India have Gujarati Corporates as their Legal Agents? In last 5-6 years, 9 Gujaratis has amassed wealth equivalent to 70,00,00,000 Indians. #GujaratiRaj has replaced #BritishRaj Another Interesting Findings - How come Scamsters who swindled 10000s Of crores in last 3 decades are Gujaratis - we had likes of Harshad Mehta, Ketan Parikh, CR Bhansali, Nitin Sandesara and his brothers, Ambanis, Adanis, Mehul Choksi that brother of him Nirav Modi, Hitesh Madhubhai Patel fooling & looting public money. #GujaratiRaj looting India Disclaimer: #GujaratiRaj or 'Gujju mafia' does not refer to tall the people of Gujarat. It refers to a particular criminal gang that has not only infiltrated the govt and govt services, but also the business community and the financial system to profit themselves through fraud and extortion. History & Facts: 46 out of 72 years, we were ruled by Gujaratis or their immediate family. So, who was really ruining our country? Ambanis, Adanis, Wadia Family, Dilip Shanghvi, Uday Kotak, Godrej Family, Mistry Family, Azim Premji, Hinduja Family - Top 10 Richest Indians ; all belong to GujaratiMafia
The discussion is spot on on the talibanization of Hinduism. No wonder, in few years, if we start seeing the enforcers of Hinduism become moral police.
I suspect this may be a Bheja Fry moment Thapar wanted to enjoy. I have always admired thapar for his articulation, alertness and involvement. By any standard Pawan verma is below average speaker on Hinduism and anciet Bharat with only surface understanding on Hindu Renaissance or Decoloniality. But then why would Thapar call articulate voices? He's smart right. It would be truly nice to see Thapar in conversation with Rajiv Malhotra who started picking on firangi colonial scholars and Karan's favourite Romila Thapar.
32:57 This social reform challenges the very existence of hinduism. Varnashram dharm is the foundation of hinduism and slavery cannot be reformed it can only be abolished.
If u want to know hinduism Google Balinese hinduism which came from india shores 2000 yrs ago there also 4 varna they intermarriage and no untouchability in india thanks to foreign invasions hinduism not hinduism of past due to which others benefitted and caste system was used by ruling elites from thousand of years and even now to divide and rule
Thus is one of the most stimulating discussions i have seen in a long time. Many thanks for this. One question to the Indians here: does the sound cut out because of self- or fear of censorship? If so that is quite sad but somehow understandable in todays climate
@Stallion Spirit suv** No one is interested in mythology..... Why should anyone hv to read History as mythology... Ramayana & mahabharat are history it has been told & retold thousands & millions of years, it will be in future also....
Verma very well knows where to dip his fingers to get to the sweetest part of the pie. His peachy mentors' must be double nodding at his dexterity in mouthing vexing convolutions. Kudos
Kindly watch: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-PyQQPqwIryo.html USA created TALIBAN and AL QUEDA in 1970's. RSS-BJP's rise to political power in India was heavily influenced/helped/facilitated by Pakistan sponsored terrorism, ISI-TALIBAN-AL QUEDA-LASHKAR-JAISH-TERROR axis. Pakistan sponsored terrorism essentially is US-Britain sponsored terrorism. This actually polarized India and paved the way for political subversion in India. RSS backed deep state got the benefit.
@@sudiptabasu96 Parallel is far-fetched & untenable . RSS is essentially an introverted, self-preservative organization . It is benign. Islamist outfits, on the other hand, are malignant to the core .
Such flawed premise. Only expected from an ex-bureaucrat. Why should there be uniformity of knowledge? Aren't we in age of specialisation. For example, why should a portfolio manager be aware of ancient civilisation in great detail if is good at his own work? Conversely, to think that he would be disdainful of his heritage is an assumption of silliest kind. I wish Verma had written the same book without being apologetic of the theme and making the intellect of unsuspecting classes of people the reason of the book.
@@abdvlogs5263 More muslims killed in most brethern countries compared to Hindu Bharat per million population. Tunisia 1865 , turkey 634 ,iran 1183 , jordan 996 , oman 765 , bahrain 783 , malaysia , indonesia 420 plus , HINDU BHARAT 310 !!!!! OXYGEN was not an issue , it was logistics and accountability.
@@SadguruPrernaTrust comparing with other countries won't make the deaths invalid... why can't you guys understand that shouting about radical islam won't prove that hindutva is 'good'
@@aadi2260 Islam is sword wagging political ideology..Hindutva is scientific way of living.. You talked about chinese warfare virus deaths , so we showed you a mirror on islamic nations.
@@SadguruPrernaTrust haha, don't confuse Hinduism/Sanatan Dharm with Hindutva buddy... Hindutva is political , meanwhile Hinduism is a way of life.. Hindutva drags religion, which is a personal matter, into politics and government which is bad.. And don't even talk about 'Scientific' 😂
Being literate doesn't mean being an intellect. I can only feel pity for this guy Pavan. Unfortunately most folks who have served the Indian government come across as very shallow minds. Define "Who is a Hindu" and start the civilization question from there.
You keep your thoughts to yourself Pawan Verma.Indians know what is good for them that is why they have elected BJP twice under the dynamic leadership of Modiji with a thumping majority.
Who knows might get lower It's another 3 years of Chaos & mayhem.People will wake up by then unless he does another PULWAMA LIKE FALSE FLAG. I THINK HE WILL
The entire discussion about civilization is superfluous , it's all about speaking truth, behaving ethically, having a scientific temper and possessing high degree of efficiency and integrity. Not the least being humane. This is all you require to grow, prosper, and progress.
Excellent probing interview. The prejudices of Mr Verna come across loud and clear in an attempt to sound grand. He is clearly dismissive of a huge number of historians. Not nice by any means.
Mr. Pawan Verma is entitled to his opinion...like some may be entitled to their opinion that Pawan Verma has not criticized enough the BJP and Nitish for colluding if not being a mute spectator to the destruction of the very essence or ethos of Indian democracy. The new generation is not worried of the ancient India because they are trying to make a living and coping with daily struggles. Elites like you have all the time to specialize in this topic & write books...had you written this book during the peak of your bureaucratic career we could have better appreciated it.
Bhakti movement was taught sufficiently in the school curriculum both at Primary and highschool level.It was taught is social studies as well as in language subjects(Kannada Hindi and even English)I am speaking about Karnataka state.It must be same with other states. I can't understand why he is complaining about this.
Interesting, i went to a school (Highly reputed Boarding School in Shimla (ICSE/ISC)), where in history i was taught, WW1 Ww2, Independence struggle and Mughals. And Indus valley civilisation. Nothing about Bhakti movement, Cholas, Pandya, Ahoms, Shivaji, etc. Had studied Shakespeare's plays, Emili Bronte, Tess of the d'Urbervilles, Earnest Hemingway - old man and the sea. Nothing by Kalidas or any Indian poet. Even in Hindi class we were learning basic textbook stuff. I do feel like i have not been taught much about India. But i do read them now.
@@incubusk8r I believe the CBSC/ICSE curriculum is closely monitored by the central govt.I studied in Kannada medium govt school.I feel,there was overdose of religious content in my Kannada and Hindi subject because almost all old Kannada and Hindi poetry is religious bhakti poetry.Lessons on Islam Christianity Buddhism or Jainism were negligible except one chapter for each religion in social studies. I really do not understand how they taught you Hindi or History.
@@incubusk8r Authorities might not have bothered to look in to what was taught to the students in schools like yours. But such aberrations are normal with private schools. Most private pre primary schools in our state( and may be all over south India) teach English and Hindi to 3-4 year old toddlers and local language( Kannada Telugu Tamil etc)rhymes or alphabets are simply nonexistent.Many of my nieces and nephews simply do not know reading or writing Kannada because central schools have forbidden them. Pawan Varma is barking at the wrong tree.The real Problem is rejection of the local in favor of global.English is global in the contest of whole India.Hindi is global from the south Indian context. This linguistic proselytization is the biggest cultural problem of the day. What history missed out in school curriculum may be leant later.But language has to be taught before 15 years of age.
Great Debate of the current stream of life in India. Notably, near the end there was an audio cut which underscores the essence of the fate of free thinking and expression in India today, under Modi Raj. Journalists & Original Thinkers are murdered and attacked in broad day light and jailed without bail solely because they criticized the policies and politics of the current Regime. "Talibanization of Hinduism today" kicked me hard on the neck. What is Talibanization to the Great Islam is the Hindutva of RSS/BJP for Ancient Hinduism. The parallel here is an electric shock to our brain!!! I hope Modi listens to this interview and understand the implications.
Hindi is language of crime infested poor states of India. Why do you want to spread violence & poverty? Punjabi is under attack from Hindi even in my Punjab.
I don't know why in India English is spoken more than Hindi are the ashamed of there language. In Punjab they all speak Punjabi mostly spoken many Punjabi know English but prefer to speak in Punjabi language same in Bengal the rest of India too much English not much Hindi is spoken
Kindly watch: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-PyQQPqwIryo.html USA created TALIBAN and AL QUEDA in 1970's. RSS-BJP's rise to political power in India was heavily influenced/helped/facilitated by Pakistan sponsored terrorism, ISI-TALIBAN-AL QUEDA-LASHKAR-JAISH-TERROR axis. Pakistan sponsored terrorism essentially is US-Britain sponsored terrorism. This actually polarized India and paved the way for political subversion in India. RSS backed deep state got the benefit.
@@roopspark9078 if the intention was to be censorious, it wouldn't have been included altogether. This wasn't a live session, it could have been easily cut in the editing room. Read the description, turn on subs.
Syntheisis has happened in India too. You get urdu, tabla from.mridanagam, pulaav. Every answers the author gives he is getting exposed. I now understand why Karan Thapar is so good 👍. With other interviewers, the Author might have got away.
