Cartridge conversions are as historically interesting as the cap n ball and cartridge revolvers of the eras. Lining the bore (on a repro, at that), doesn't strike me as sacrilegious.
i saw a guy load a baby dragoon with 12 grains of 4f and an 80 grain bullet, this gave him an average of 898 fps and 143 ft lbs of energy, so maybe .38 short colt was made for 4f powder
With turning cylinder problem you can deal easy. Use yours bp lube in big thick axle ;) synth lube (bearing one) get bad with black powder dirt. So bp lube works very good! And ofcourse my closed frame ubertis el patron get gritty whatever I do....
I love my 1860 army conversion. It uses a Pietta 1860 army with a Howell 5 shot conversion cylinder with the saftey notches. I do a ballistics test with it on my channel using smokeless 45 colt round ball loads. Powder for these loads is green dot. Conversion revolvers are awesome.
Since you relined the barrel. Have you considered putting a ejector rod and Tube on it. I have a friend that has a uberti 51 navy conversion and it's ejector Rod and Tube are held on exactly the same way as my original Colt 51 Navy conversion. Should be a eazy thing to do if you have access to a milling machine.
Back when I first started reloading 38 special I tried some black powder loads with 20 grains of goex 3f, and some pyrodex loads with 158 gr. Lee tumble lubed bullets. I did not know how fast they were going as I don't have a Chrono but they shot clear through a steal 55 gallon drum. and they were accurate. they were dirty for sure but fun to shoot. The model 10 4" I had chewed through them. I would love to have a 51 Navy with a conversion and a sleeved barrel. Who did you get the liner from?
Almost 2 months ago I ordered me an Uberti 1858 Remington style new model army revolver online from Dixie gun works and a Howell fluted .45 colt cartridge conversion cylinder online from midway USA and I received them both on the same day and made an unboxing video and posted it on my channel. 2 days later I drove nearly 300 miles to the Cabela’s outlet in Hamburg PA. to score me a couple of boxes of HSM .45 colt 200 grain cowboy load cartridges for it. Just this week on Monday I finally had a chance to shoot it for the first time and I made a video of it and posted it on my channel of me firing 10 shots from about 35 feet away at a large pumpkin. It was so much fun to shoot it and I really shot up that pumpkin and redding up my piece after was so easy. It didn’t even get that dirty
I own a Uberti 1861 in 36 cal and just bought a single cavity lyman 37583 E 157, i believe this is a 145gn flat point bullet according to lymans catalog, and i payed a whooping 30$ for it so i don't have to worry about firing under sized bullets in it using both smokeless and H-777 for a propellant, as you mentioned shooting a heavier bullet under 800 FPS would put me into a police 38 spl in 158gn load, looking to shoot for fun and historically correct. others would say buy a 38 spl and be done with it! the point is shooting a period correct handgun with a cartridge conversion is very satisfying to say the least i love your videos.
What is your cleaning process like with your 1851. I got the cimarron man with no name and I want to shoot black powder but feel I would have ti take it all the way down. I had a trigger spring corrode on my 1858 and I'm guessing it's from powder. Do you take off the wood and just drop all the metal into a hot pot for a moment?
Love you videos!!! I’m wondering, after a couple of cylinders full of black powder loads in rapid succession, does the gun become too hot to comfortably handle?
from my experience- in .38LC, 3.1gr of bullseye does around 800fps with a 158gr RNFP out of a 7.5" revolver. Still quite a bit under max pressure. 2.3gr of Nitro 100 does around 750fps with 158gr. 2.9gr of Nitro100 does around 900fps with 125gr. 3.7gr of Bullseye does around 920fps with 125gr in .38SC, 1.7gr of Nitro100 does around 670fps with 158gr RNFP out of a 7.5". Still under max. 1.8gr of N100 does around 775fps with 125gr ( i wasn't happy with BE in .38SC, Velocities for me were all over the place, not a good sign) In .45C, 4.8gr of N100 does around 775fps with a 300gr RNFP 6.3gr of BE for around 825 with 300gr 7.1gr BE for around 925fps with 255gr RNFP 5.3gr of N100 for around 850fps with 255gr. In .45 SW 4.4gr of N100 does around 800fps with 255gr 5.8gr of BE does around 850fps with 255gr 6.5gr BE does around 990fps with 200gr RNFP 4.9gr of N100 does around 930fps with 200gr. (all of these produce 2-4k under max allowable pressures, which both CIP and SAMMI derived from the hottest BP loads for these cartridges) You can also download to BP performance with smokeless and have significantly lighter recoiling loads (since the smokeless propellant charge is a small fraction of the BP) You can also under load cartridges with BP (and/or load 1F granulation in a pistol), and get low numbers, if you want. I like shooting with BP as much as anyone, but there are only 5 things BP is better than smokeless at: 1. It's easier/safer to make at home 2. It's stable indefinitely 3. More fun while shooting 4. Easier to clean the fouling (which is good, because there's a lot more of it) 5. Isn't really capable of producing top Smokeless pressures when reasonably loaded in a firearm (only really important if you are making your own barrels and such)
@wildrangeringreen There's a bit more to things than max pressure. Old steels are different and should be used with BP or Pyrodex only. The pressure rise and curve also matter; that's the main difference between a propellant and an explosive. Variations in bore diameter can also affect pressures. I do like the approach of staying with lower pressures; you're not really giving up much velocity and often best accuracy is found with lighter loads. Also there's the lead itself which may be harder with modern store-bought bullets and even DIY casting according to your source of lead; harder bullets can increase pressure in tight bores, the originals used only soft lead. There's really no point in "hot-rodding" these cartridges here- if you really need more go with something bigger or newer and save yourself the grief of a worn-out or damaged gun. Thanks for sharing these loads 👍
havn't done long colts. but ive been doin short colts with hodgdons Clays 2 gr of powder with a 95 gr goin around 750fps 7000 cups of pressure from a 7.5" barrel. very fun lil mouse fart rounds. uses 9mm dies. with 38 spl 138 wad cutter with 3grs i get around 850. my uberti can take full 357 mag so these are very under gassed. my brass remington 1858 tho needs very light black powder loads. for that i use 45 cowboy special brass with 17-20 gr or triple 7 with 230gr tapered crimp . bassically a 45 acp doin old webley velocities. 680fps. those are crazy accurate tack drivers i get my bullets from bayou bullets out of everywhere ive seen they have the best prices for a great hard cast powder coated bullets. don't get swaged they lead the shit outta the barrel no matter the coating.
Nice video. I’ve been wanting to try black powder 38 special loads in mine. I’ve got a Uberti Richard Mason 51 navy conversion. With federal lead round nose ammunition it’s the most accurate handgun I own other than maybe my T/C Contender….who would have guessed. I would’ve figured you would’ve used Willard McBain‘s homemade granules in those cases😁
The immediacy with which the ring of the gong follows the report of the shot is noticeable and could be useful for "seat of the pants" test fires. However, as it says above the door of my shop, "The seat of your pants is not a precisely calibrated test device". Good video, thanks.
Thank you. At the end you answered my question about 38 special. The kirts site doesn't do a good job explaining it giving mixed information. And they apparently don't have a constant number I could find anywhere
Actually the cartridge conversion also is historic. It was the end of the C&B era and the beginning of the cartridge era. T he conversion parts can be removed, the C&B cylinder installed and presto a C&B gun. If you left the .375" bore barrel alone.
it's a very useful video. But I have one question. I'm living in Europe in Poland so I'don't know perfectly american nomenclature in the subject. Have you heard the name "SMOKELESS AMMO" or "SMOKELESS AMMUNITION" in your proffessional life? I mean not "smokeless powder ammo" only "smokeless ammo" without the word "powder". Is this name used (spoken) in America to describe ammunition which is not black powder ammunition?
Looking to load 32 win spec. And looking for a casting mold for it. Any help would be appreciated. ( probably useing black powder only ). I have dies and primers , brass
I'm curious I use a homemade lube of unsalted lard and beeswax (my great-grandfathers recipe), I always hear people making it from lamb's tallow and bee's wax are there any advantage to using the lab fat instead of hog???
The only advantage I’m aware of is that lambs tallow doesn’t spoil. As far as it performing different from hog or any other kind of fat, I doubt it makes much of a difference
I have an old coat just like the first picture that you showed identical it flipped me out to see one looking just like what I've got. I was told to shoot S&W shorts but I was also told I could shoot 38 Colt in it and it does clear when the cylinder goes around but I never have shot the 38. You could definitely see the difference in the recoil from the two powder loads that you put in. Thanks so much for this I'm so glad you showed that because I have never seen a picture of it. Want to buy it. It is definitely original. Thanks again for the video I most definitely enjoyed this but I always enjoy them anyway. Keep ye powder dry
havn't done long colts. but ive been doin short colts with hodgdons Clays 2 gr of powder with a 95 gr goin around 750fps 7000 cups of pressure from a 7.5" barrel. very fun lil mouse fart rounds. uses 9mm dies. with 38 spl 138 wad cutter with 3grs i get around 850. my uberti can take full 357 mag so these are very under gassed. my brass remington 1858 tho needs very light black powder loads. for that i use 45 cowboy special brass with 17-20 gr or triple 7 with 230gr tapered crimp . bassically a 45 acp doin old webley velocities. 680fps. those are crazy accurate tack drivers i get my bullets from bayou bullets out of everywhere ive seen they have the best prices for a great hard cast powder coated bullets. don't get swaged they lead the shit outta the barrel no matter the coating.
I've been thinking about your new powder tumbler and I got to thinking that because your milling media isn't as heavy even though you are tumbling it faster it still may not be milling it as fine. I usually run my powder for 24 hours and every 4 or 5 hours I knock the clumps loose and let it run. This is just the thoughts of a man who can't count past 10 with his boots on
Pyrodex works well in cartridges. I find it gives higher velocity than traditional black powder. I also find that drilling the flash hole out slightly, with a drill bit and using a magnum primer also increases the velocity. I liked your pistol and video.
@@Everythingblackpowder I would really like to see you do a video using the different types of pyrodex. I liked your video enough that i know i would like to see more of this from you. By the way, who lined the barrel on your pistol?
My 1851 Navy with the Krist conversion has the original .375" bore and uses a 125 grain heel bullet with FFFg Du Pont to the bullet base. I am getting playing card groups (mostly) at 20 yards. I have no idea of velocity, but it hits where I point it. Fast is fine but accuracy is final. Kep on making smoke.
Good info thanks 👍👍.. I like your attitude about your videos I like that you say if you don't like it make your own damn videos LoL ... Well until next time I'll be looking forward towards your next video so until then God Bless and Be Safe... Don E. in Colorado
This is one subject that quite frankly I don't even know where to begin with. So I guess I'll try to do my best at voice to texting these comments as best I can. This is one of those questions that you have to ask yourself are advancements really advancements? You take a gun that was originally designed to shoot a bullet of at 375 and narrow it down to 358 obviously you're not going to get a desired positive outcome. In this case the advancement in technology and the lack of proper casing has led to a problem to solve that never should have existed. Is there ways around it? Potentially! But looking for solutions for a problem that should have never been created in the first place. The solutions are too numerous to mention here, and often leave with mediocre results. Case in point let's say you got a 6.5x55 Swedish chambering is replacing it with a 6.5 Creedmoor an actual advancement when in fact all you really done is throat out the free bore of the barrel and put a faster twist to it. Is this an improvement? I would offer no you have just created another item that is only able to be specialize in one aspect and you've created it to be less versatile. Fine if that's all you want to do with it but it limits its scope therefore not an advancement. Opinions aside. I would ascertain that the original Colt board design and Barrel design was not just because he was looking for a caliber but it was a efficient caliber and powder charge per bullet combination. Yes the changes in modern cartridge design is great but lazy in the fact that they didn't want to make a separate caliber for something that was already a separate caliber and dimensions. I know this is confusing with me rambling cuz it almost is confusing and I know what I'm trying to say but I think you get my point. Now I cannot exactly compare the differences between the Colt navies and the Remington navies for capacity however I can state that currently out of my pietta Remington I can put 148 grain Kato bullet with a charge of 20 grains by volume. With some room to spare. Today we are dealing with far different metallurgy , and potential as compared to the Past. This is kind of what I was trying to get into the conversation a little bit on the live stream with 11 Bang Bang. But that has proven to be not a great platform to actually have a discussion bad on me I'm not a technology guy. But the question still stands has anybody noticed the the difference between an original Remington new model Navy as opposed to what Uberti and pietta are producing today as a new model Navy. The frame size and cylinder size are much larger of than the originals. At least for me that gets my head turning or brain are thinking, Of the potential capabilities. Now this is not exactly the best platform to have this discussion but out of my Remington cap and ball with said volume and load I have produced near plus p velocities. And dare I say I'm thinking of another formula to go further. Again this is not the platform for me to say this no more than maybe the discussion on the walk or the other day should have been now that I think about it but with that I'm going to leave you with that thought. Mountain man
This confirms what I’ve suspected for a long time. A lot of people, including reputable and experienced writers, say the Colt Navy 36 is equal to or less than a .380. I don’t think that’s accurate. And you just proved me right. It’s more like a standard .38 Spl LSWC out of a 2 or even 4 inch barrel. But even that maybe somewhat misleading, as in .375 bore, the round being fired, whether ball and cap or conversion, is closer to .40 cal with the .375 and is shaped differently than a .357 in .38 Spl and may behave differently. People make the .380 or less comparison I think because we are used to seeing 80 gr lead ball going through them. But that’s not what most people back in the day used. They used a much heavier 125 or 150 gr conical or flat point bullet loaded with 12-20 (maybe 21) gr of black powder. I actually had my Navy converted with a Kirst about a month ago and did my own video demonstrating two weeks ago. I’m actually planning to do a chronograph video with maybe a few more details to compare as well. Good job! Great video.! Btw, why did you go from 15 gr 3F Goex to 12 gr Swiss in 125 gr short colt? (Btw, I get between 20-21 gr in my 150 gr Long Colt using Hollow Base bullets for my .375 bore and the accuracy on mine is now amazing thanks to the gunsmiths handywork)
Thank you! I suppose if you’re comparing the the 80gr .376 round ball it might be closer to a 380 but certainly not with a heavier conical and a full powder charge. The 38LC goex load was 15gr 3F, 125gr Lfp I was expecting better velocities with the lighter bullet so I went with 18gr 3f Swiss and a 158gr lfp and it picked up 100fps average with a heavier bullet and only 3gr more powder. I didn’t load any short colt rounds with Goex, only Swiss. But even the short Colt wasn’t bad with 12gr 3F and a 125gr lfp.
I actually love my 1851 man with no name revolver more than my old Vaquero. The conversion is stupid fun, loading FFE at 17 grains is fun. The gallery load in 38 special is a riot
The caplock conversions and the various 38 caliber cartridges didn't make the revolvers any more powerful......just made loading faster and easier. I have a Remington New Model Navy full up converted and fire the 38 Long Outside Lubed cartridge.
@@Everythingblackpowder Your viewing of chronograph shows that you are testing/observing the power/velocity of different loads, even stating that some loads give more velocity than others. I was stating a very true fact about original caplock conversion revolvers, not trying to impugn you, your work nor your purpose.
@@Everythingblackpowder If your barrel was still.375, you could test the 38 Long /short with an outside lubed heel based bullet. You might get a little more powder inside the case.
I recently picked up one of those Cimarron 'Lawmen/Outlaw' revolvers. Mine is the 'Wild Bill' 1851 Conversion. It has been sitting in the safe for two months now and I've not fired a shot from it. My intentions were to find some short and long 38 brass to load up with black or Triple 7. Don't even want to bother with smokeless since I figured what you found out would indeed happen. Inefficient and low velocity. As you know, that brass is hard to get AND can be expensive. Gunbroker to the rescue! Got 200 short and 100 long brass to play with so... its off to the races now. OH, and if anyone is interested Starline recently offered a bag of 500 - 38 short brass for about $115 I think. Not bad considering it has been so scarce of late.
I already have an ass load of fired 38spl brass. So I just cut some down town to 38lc length with a case trimmer. I prefer using heel base 375 bullets so I can keep my barrel's original bore intact for use with round balls.
@@Everythingblackpowder sorry, I came back and answered on the conversation. It was Old West Bullet Moulds. 150 gr .358 bullets hollow base. $28 for a bag of 100 on their website. I started saying Matts Bullets, but that’s where I get bullets for .44-40 and .45 Colt
