Blackmagic BiDirectional SDI/HDMI 12G Micro Converter walk-through: It has a secret feature! 

Thanks for the sub!

Inconsistent how?

Yeah, I had thought of that before the video but failed to mention it. But that's one of the reasons I mentioned renaming the converters so you know which is which when you have multiple connected with a USB hub.

Had the same idea the other day. With a pelican type case. Good to know that it works.

Their website and product manual make it pretty clear that it will convert in both directions simultaneously. And clearly from the demonstration here it certainly does. The 12G-Cross is a great product, though. I have several and love them. But I only use them when I need scalers/frame rate converters.

The Blackmagic UpDownCross? That's a very different product. It's only HD for one -- no 4K support.

@@djp_video The UpDownCross HD right. well it's a converter but i guess i get what you mean

In case anyone is interested, I posed the same question on the Blackmagic Forum and Gary Adams posted that he confirmed in his lab that the combo of a BMD UpDownCross + BMD Bi-directional 3G successfully downscaled a Studio Cam 4K Plus output to 720p while providing Cam Control from an ATEM SDI switcher. Here's a link to the post: forum.blackmagicdesign.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=155861 Thanks again for the video Doug!

If the monitor tells the converter that it only accepts 60Hz it should convert it. I can double check though and let you know for sure

same here. I get the green image on bmpcc og, bmpcc4k on the hdmi out

The better way is to use a Teranex Express or Teranex AV. But they’re a lot more expensive. Honestly, the Decimators are the best option.

I prefer decimator as it's easier to change settings from the lcd.

If you are interested in buying a hyperdeck then HD+ converts 2160p30 (max) to 1080p from sdi in and hdmi in to sdi mon out (toggle between osd and clean output)

They’re done by my crewaxis.com site. It has a full inventory management feature.

Yes.

@@djp_video Nice. Thank you.

The computer sees it as a monitor, capable of resolutions up to 4120x2160 at 60 fps. So, yes, it can be used to either extend or duplicate the desktop.

A tip: consider doing some of your content/presentation inside OBS Studio and sending your program output to the extended screen so you can have a lot more control of what you send to your audience, and even more scenes, too!

Yes, that would work. Many camcorders that do have both SDI & HDMI will only output to one or the other -- they won't do both at the same time. This includes the models that I use -- I have to select which output I want to use in the menu.

If your system has a Thunderbolt port you could use an UltraStudio instead of a DeckLink. Using the LUT feature of one of these converters is the next best thing when a purpose-made output device/card isn't an option.

@@djp_video Thanks so much! Yeah unfortunately the board doesn't have TB3 protocol just USB-C 10Gbps

I don't believe so.

There wouldn't be a visual advantage using this particular converter -- it is designed to give a "quick and dirty" conversion rather than a high quality conversion, and does so by basically throwing away 3 out of 4 pixels, which results in a lower quality image than you'd get with native 1080p. Higher quality conversions are available with other hardware, like the Teranex AV/Express products, but it isn't likely to look any better than a native 1080p output. One thing you can do to improve the appearance of text on slides would be to turn off subpixel rendering. I have a video on that here: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-tfni1annzyc.html

@@djp_video Will teranex allow for sdi to sdi down conversion?

Yes, it will loop the HDMI if no SDI input is connected.

@@djp_video Thank you Doug! 🙂🙏🏻

It isn’t in the manual. That’s why I was surprised when it did. I checked on multiple combinations of monitors and video sources, and it most definitely does down-convert to HD with a UHD source when a monitor isn’t capable of displaying UHD.

No. You have to create a .cube file containing the LUT. Resolve will do this, and the controls are similar, but ultimately it does have to be converted to a .cube file so it can be uploaded into the converter.

Yes. Both of those options work.

@@djp_video Thanks doug :)

To down-convert to 1080p HDMI just connect an HDMI display device which doesn't support 4K. The original source could be coming in on HDMI or SDI -- SDI because it's the main signal path, but HDMI works too because when no SDI source is connected the converter uses the HDMI source instead.

Okay framesize, but not frame rate, got it. I'm good.

Most likely the Pyro is not outputting the resolution and frame rate that you want it to, so the ATEM doesn't recognize the signal. You could try an EDID emulator to force it to a specific resolution/frame rate, or a converter like a Decimator 12G-CROSS, to force the right format.

Yes,, that would work. 12G SDI-to-HDMI -> 3G HDMI-to-SDI.

Ah OK. Only SDI-HDMI 3G converter

Yes, only the SDI-to-HDMI. Not the BiDirectional 3G. I verified.

I didn't include that as part of my testing. Certainly any timecode on the SDI input will be passed to the SDI output. As far as the HDMI ports, I"ll have to do some testing to find out.

@@djp_video The 12G bidi adapters pass the timecode in HDMI-CEC from the Atem to Atem cameras (BMPCC 4k, 6k, 6k Pro) to jam the camera timecode. The 3G bidi adapters don't.

It's not a cable issue. 4:4:4 over SDI is really, really rare -- it's almost always 4:2:2. Additionally, 4:4:4 requires 50% more bandwidth than 4:2:2, pushing it past the 12Gbps limit of 12G-SDI (at 2160p50/2160p60). This is why Ultra HD HDMI cables are rated to 18 Gbps, as that is the bandwidth required to do RGB at 2160p50/60. Additionally, SDI is almost never RGB. It's nearly always YCrCb. It's possible to do RGB over SDI, but I'm not aware of any hardware which supports it. The normal format for SDI is 10-bit 4:2:2 YCrCb. That is, by far, the most common video format used in professional video production, including everything you watch on broadcast television. Online streaming is also almost always YCrCb and is in most non-HDR cases just 8-bit. I don't believe 4:4:4 or RGB over SDI is supported by any Blackmagic converter. And I can't think of any that do. If the HDMI output of converter 1 is really 4:4:4 RGB, it means that the output is just mirroring the input and the signal isn't passing through a HDMI->SDI->HDMI conversion internally. The signal format is obviously being converted to 10-bit 4:2:2 YCrCb on the SDI, though. Are you sure you need 4:4:4? Unless you have very tight patterns made up of very different, high saturation and high brightness colors you'd be hard pressed to see the difference between 4:4:4 and 4:2:2.

@@djp_video Thanks a lot Doug, couldn't have asked for a more comprehensive and enlightening answer, great. I think moving forward I'll invest in an Hdfury integral2 with the aim of calibrating 2 monitors at full levels. I'll use one of the biconverters to hold a lut for an LGC1 Oled. Thanks again for your reply.

You can go in both directions simultaneously. When one input is disconnected or is shut off, the signal from the other input is automatically routed. For example if you had a computer connected to the HDMI input and a video switcher connected to the SDI input and both are turned on, the computer signal would be available at the SDI output and the switcher signal would be available on the HDMI output. But if the computer is disconnected or turns off the signal from the switcher would appear on both the SDI and HDMI outputs. Same if the switcher is disconnected or powered off -- the signal from the computer would appear on both the SDI and HDMI outputs.

You'd need two converters and two SDI lines

Yes. You can turn it on for the SDI or HDMI output, or both.

@@djp_video Thanks! That is great news. It probably makes it the cheapest 4K LUTbox among the non bi models.

It won’t do any upscaling. The feature is there so you can see 4K content on 1080p displays.

You could have the switcher set to send you your own camera feed back over the connected SDI output. It'd be slightly delayed, but you wouldn't need any additional hardware or for BMD to modify their converter.

The down conversion only handles resolution conversion. It won’t change/convert the frame rate.

@@djp_video Thank you for answer. When I set the HDMI output from the PTZ camera (Canon CR-N300) to 2160p25 and ATEM TVS Pro HD to 1080p25, will it work?

As many as you want. It's just a signal format converter, so if you have 100 source video signals you can have 100 converters. If you're looking for a video interface for a computer and have Thunderbolt on your computer, take a look at the UltraStudio products from Blackmagic Design.

The WJ-MX12 is an analog, standard definition switcher. It takes (and creates) analog composite, standard definition video. SDI is a digital signal, and these days is nearly always high definition. The two signals are very different and are not compatible. If you are wanting to send the output of your switcher to an HDMI display, you can get a component to HDMI converter (like amzn.to/4cDJYo2) along with an RCA to BNC adapter/cable. If you have an HDMI source that you want to get into your switcher, an HDMI to composite converter (like amzn.to/3VXEPBX) will do that. But more than likely an HDMI source is going to be high definition, so you'll experience pretty significant loss of detail going through the conversion. And you might have to watch out for differences in frame rate. The WJ-MX12 is only going to be capable of either 25 or 30 frames per second (depending on what region it was made for).

@@djp_video Thank you for your answer ! I already have those little converters and wanted to upgrade to something better 😅I guess I'll send back the product and keep digging the topic. Best,

You could use it for applying LUTs to an existing HDMI output, but it won't provide a new output on a connected computer.

These converters are just for converting to/from SDI and HDMI. They aren’t interfaces for getting video in and out of a computer.

No. This isn't a capture device.

I'm not really equipped to do that testing. If I need to go farther than about 100 feet I use fiber instead of coax. I really don't even own any coax cable much longer than that. It is also going to vary a lot based on what other equipment you have in the mix, and the environment where you're going to be using it. So even if I did get the gear and take the time to test that, the results are likely to not be relevant for everyone else.

It does happen occasionally. Based on my own personal experience, Blackmagic's failure rate might be slightly higher than other manufacturers, but it isn't excessively high. Reach out to their support personnel and they'll help you out.

You can adjust the video output resolution on your computer

No. If you need that, don't connect the SDI input, and use two separate converters. Or pick up a Decimator MD-HX.

@@djp_video So basically SDI takes priority over HMDI and I need to convert those inputs with the additional converters?

Active inputs take precedence over the pass-through functionality... so connecting an SDI source will turn off the HDMI -> HDMI pass-through... just as an active HDMI source will turn off the SDI->SDI pass-through.

@@djp_video Actually SDI input is overriding the HDMI input always regardless of the order of the input’s active state. Should we do some configurations to make the HDMI input be converted in the output whenever it’s active first?

That's the way it is meant to work. Connecting an SDI signal will interrupt the HDMI pass-through. It's a bi-directional converter. If the SDI input was ignored, it would only be converting in one direction, and the SDI input would be useless.

Tracking inventory using my CrewAxis website

Around 1ms per conversion

@@djp_video could u run off a quick demo. The reason: I'm considering the advantages of buying a Studio Television Pro 4K ATEM over a Mini Extreme ISO. SDI cable runs needed so if this is that low, the mini Extreme ISO would be more advantageous as the prior is fairly long in the tooth now and doesn't record ISOs.

The TVS doesn’t have any internal recording or streaming capabilities at all. And no SuperSource, and only one DVE. But having SDI and a high quality panel with real buttons (not just the cheap rubber ones) are certainly big pluses.

@@djp_video Do you know the speed of the older BMD SDI to HDMI converter?

Which one? They've made quite a few over the years. With their current lineup they tend to indicate the speed as part of the name: 12G, 6G, 3G, etc. for 12G-SDI, 6G-SDI, and 3G-SDI respectively. Older models sometimes used different naming variations: 4K (6G-SDI), HD (could be 3G-SDI or HD-SDI). The Micro Converters have always been just 3G up until just a few months ago when they launched the 12G lineup. The Teranex Mini line models are all 12G. For models that don't explicitly state their speed in the name you'll want to consult the BMD website to be absolutely sure.

I'm not sure... I've never tried. I don't think I own any devices that don't accept a 1080p signal to see if I can force it to output 1080i instead.

Any news about the regular HDMI->SDI converter? Does is also do the 4k to 1080p?