Blackmagic Dropped The PRICE... AGAIN? Full Frame Failure?

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(26/396) My reaction to Blackmagic cutting the price of BMCC 6K Full Frame.
My Insta: / boristheartist
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filmmaking, filmmaker, shoot, commercial, blackmagic, bmpcc 4k, pocket cinema camera, sigma lens, nd filter, mist filter, how to, tutorial, davinci resolve, color grading, no budget, broll, cinematic, anamorphic, original bmpcc, og, film, filmmakers life, vlog, blog, bmpcc,bmpcc 4k short film,bmpcc color grading,bmpcc original,bmpcc4k,cinematic broll,bmpcc 4k,bmcc 2.5k, panasonic, lumix, s5ii, s5iix, 18-35, Helios 44-2 58mm f/2
#filmmaking #bmpcc4k #bmfullframe

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21 сен 2024

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Комментарии : 82

@phrasalsyntax 4 месяца назад

Boris, the reasons why Blackmagic has slashed the price of the 6K FF are probably two: First, they want to clear inventory from stores to make space for the new Pyxis (to keep cameras in stores is inefficient for manufacturers, there is limited space available). Pyxis is coming soon and they need to free space for them. This happened because the sells of the BM FF 6K hasn't been as fast they expected. I think in part, thanks to influencers like you who are nontechnical people and are fanboys of particular cameras that you own, like Lumix S5II. Also, based on your comments about how wonderful Sony products are, it seems that you are one more of those guys who are happy with the Sony mirrorless compressed codec ‘look’ (Sony infamous color science), and seem not to like the BM FF 6K for some stupid reasons like the form factor. I mean stupid because you don't complain for the form factor when you are paying $1.600 USD for that quality of an image. The second probable reason why BM has slashed the price of the 6K FF is because they want as many new people as possible trying Blackmagic. People who are using mirrorless and were thinking in moving into cinema quality, into a raw workflow (for example, people who were thinking in jumping into RED Komodo, or to Sony FX6 or the coming new cinema Canons). Once you have some of those people on board they will immediately see firsthand the high quality images that they can get from the BM FF 6K thanks to Braw color science (arguably better than S5II, FX3, FX6, even Komodo OG). Because of the cheap price many new people will make the leap and become BM users. This in spite of what influencers like you (and that guy @CINENIMUS and others) are telling on their RU-vid rants against the BM 6K FF. These new users will become familiarized with BM cameras and will probably contribute to the critical mass of filmmakers that the company needs to promote their new BM cinema line: Pyxis, (future Pyxis G2), and Cine 12K ---the last one, a very capable high end cinema camera that will probably compete hand in hand with the ARRIs, the REDs and the Venices/Buranos, which cost several times more. You also keep saying that BM has a systematic policy of decreasing the value of their cameras after six months. Well, it turns out that this temporary offers have happened only two times in their history. They did this back in 2014 with the OG pocket camera. The price was cut to $500 from $1000. And as they said then, it wouldn't last long, just until they get out of stock (it happened in less than a week). After that, the price went back to near $1000. But the benefit of that was that lots of people who were not sure if investing into BM system, decide to invest and became familiarized with the tech and the workflow. And they later became owners of the future pockets 4K and 6K and Ursas (BM has their own statistics). So differently that what you say in your rant, this offer will not last forever, but until stores run out of stock; and after that you could expect the price to come back to near the original $2,600 USD, maybe a little bit less. So different to what you advice your audience, it's really a good investment to get one of those 6K FF for $1.575 USD before they run out of stock (probably in a week or so). Besides getting and incredible good image quality for that price, in the near future your camera will cost more than that (even as a used one) and you will be able to recover your investment and more if you decide to sell it. Finally, you also commented without any evidence or technical information that they are making a profit by selling at $1.575 and somehow that implies that they are selling crap. I can tell you that this is probably the manufacture cost of the camera, they are not making any profit by selling at that price. But, as I mentioned, they need space in stores to make for the Pyxis, but most importantly, they need plenty of new filmmakers that decide to try Blackmagic and their new cinema offerings. Many of them will experience the quality of the images coming from that camera and become BM filmmakers and influencers for quite some time. Filmmaker and youtuber Jake Hayden, who owns a Canon C200 and no Blackmagic, made this video analysis just before BM announcement. Differently than you, he considers that the BM 6K FF will become a 'cult classic' in the future. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-baBoCedEwow.html

@BorisTheArtist 4 месяца назад

Hey man, quite a lot in your comment, might not cover everything. 1. Yup I say in the video that they slash price because of Pyxis. 2. Not a fanboy of any brand, I had Ursa G2 (still one of my favorite cameras), still have pocket 4K, worked with 6K pro a lot. Never actually owned Sony, but worked with FX3 on lots of projects. But if a manufacturer sells shit, why should I praise it? If you watch my pocket 4K vs Lumix video you can see that I don really like s5II for its other flaws, while I like BRaw of pocket. I also think that the best BM image comes from their s35 6k sensor, and they made 4 cameras to milk it. But FF and Pyxis are shitty crippled cameras, and yes, I think $1600 is a fantastic price for it, and that's a deal worth taking if you thought about getting one before. But the whole point of this rant I guess is to warn people not to buy BM at the retail price ever. Blackmagic themselves don't care about their camera's value, only about their sales, means how little they care about this sub $3000 camera owners. 3. I worked in a rental house, worked on more than 100 crew members sets, Unreal virtual productions, worked with Arri, Red, Sony, BM, Phantoms, so I don't care which brand to use as long as the camera is good. Jake Hayden, well idk the guy, but it seems like he's more of a RU-vidr, and there's nothing wrong with it, but your standards for the camera will significantly increase once you use something that is built well, doesn't have tons of rolling shutter and doesn't feel like a plastic toy. Not even talking about Pyxis, it's a mistake that should've never existed. 4. You said something about FF users then jumping on Ursas. Well, why L mount then? There's no Ursa with L mount. Why didn't they make EF with internal NDs? Same goes for Pyxis. Why I like Sony, is that you take something cheap like A7IV let's say, you invest in lenses, and then you buy or rent Burano or even Venice, and you can use those E mount lenses on their highest end $70K camera. AND you get NDs with mirrorless E-mount. They made a clear upgrade path and I guess that's why everyone is switching to Sony. 5. And to the opposite of what you think, Braw is one of my favorite codecs to use, I don't really like Sony codec and not because of "infamous color science", but because I had to buy a beefier PC to handle it. Color science? Man, in this day and age it really doesn't matter what colors are coming out of the camera. You can grade anything to look like anything nowadays. 6. And I worked with Komodo, Red raw still superior to Braw, but braw is very close and better optimized for Davinci (obviously). 7. Anyway, that's my opinion, and after using so many cameras, I have a right to have one.

@bobhope1084 2 месяца назад

Speaking facts that’s the only reason I bought mine today went in for a light came out with a camera

@phrasalsyntax 2 месяца назад

@@bobhope1084 Did you bought the BM 6K FF? at the discount price? I was checking B&H and Adorama and they are listed at $2,595 (non discount price)

@marvinsuarezstudios 4 месяца назад

They did this back in 2014, with the OG pocket camera, it was a flash deal..price was cut to $500 from $1000. It didn’t last long..probably about a week. They have been doing this from the beginning to get people to explore their cameras..they def do this with cameras that has surplus..it’s actually genius..instead of paying for advertising, they reduce the price to get a buzz word of mouth going then raise back up the price..I’m not surprised..I’m happy because I picked one up yesterday for the flash price.

@BorisTheArtist 4 месяца назад

Yeah, if you got it for a deal, that's definitely good for you, but in general, cutting the price like that 6 months after the camera release is not a good move from blackmagic. Didn't even last a year.

@RubenStuveling 4 месяца назад

@@BorisTheArtist I don't think you understand. It's a temporary deal. It will return to the original price. Like the person above says; they have done this before with their camera's.

@BorisTheArtist 4 месяца назад

@@RubenStuveling I know it's temporary, but even if the price goes back, it's already shown its actual value, so used market value will keep falling and it's a fairly new camera, that already has lost its market value 6 months later. If you get it for 1600 - good for you, that's a good deal, but it means that buying it from a retail price is not a good investment long term.

@RubenStuveling 4 месяца назад

@@BorisTheArtist Camera's are never a good investment if you purely look at resell value.

@ericadams4101 4 месяца назад

Does no one remember the canon c100 going from $9999 to $2999 in a single price cut? They’re cameras bro.

@BorisTheArtist 4 месяца назад

6 months after release?

@bastelwigames 4 месяца назад

"all about making money", "not for the people"... They make cinemagrade stuff available for the people for a good price. A camera is not an investment. Every digital camera will lose most of its value within 10 years.

@BorisTheArtist 4 месяца назад

If a camera is not an investment for you, then you probably are not a filmmaker. If you were a working filmmaker, every little piece of equipment down to an HDMI cable would be an investment for you. Otherwise it's nothing but a hobby. And yes, every digital camera will lose value in 10 years, but not 6 months. All that blackmagic does is somehow goes around Red's internal raw patent and they cash in on it. But after Nikon's Red acquisition we might get raw in other cameras. And let's be honest, if internal raw was in cameras like Sony or Panasonic, nobody would buy freaking Blackmagic Pockets, as their bodies are junk, huge, not balanced, not weather sealed, they get dust behind olpf, fungus on their cheap IR filters, their screens burn out and turn yellow, they have terrible rolling shutter, no innovative features. For years they sell their raw and workflow around it in the cheapest hardware one can buy.

@BorisTheArtist 4 месяца назад

@@bastelwigames 1. "you broke filmmakers"? You know everybody's background? You like to judge people by their wealth? Who the fuck are you and what outstanding high-end shit have you done to act like a smart ass here, insulting the filmmakers community like that? 2. Nobody should be thankful for anything. Blackmagic doesn't make high end cameras and sells it for lower prices, they make cheap, plastic cameras and sell those for way more than what they're actually worth so even if they cut 40% off the price, they're still gonna make profit.

@s_t_r_a_y_e_d 4 месяца назад

@bastelwigames stay on the gaming side of the internet, you clearly are out of your depth

@dmitriilukinykh4854 3 месяца назад

What kind of nonsense are you talking about? For example, a year ago I bought a Canon R6 Mark 2 camera, and in a year it fell in price by 800 euros. Without any big discounts from the manufacturer. Look at the cost of blackmagic 4k new and used. People sell old cameras for almost store price, they don't drop in price at all.

@mavfan1 4 месяца назад

why do you use the word investment and worry about the price drop? It's a tool. If you're a professional making money with this tool then you're not worried about these sorts of things on a camera of this relatively low cost.

@BorisTheArtist 4 месяца назад

Buying a tool with the intention to make a profit is called "making an investment". Once you run a business, especially in the filmmaking industry, every little piece of equipment down to an HDMI cable, should be considered an investment, in other words CAPEX.

@marvinsuarezstudios 4 месяца назад

They did the same exact thing in 2014..the deal didn’t last more than a day or 2..I missed out on that one. This is the first time since they have done that kind of price drop on the pocket..not sure what they have up their sleeve..probably wanted to get ride of the first initial versions so they can produce new versions with updated screens from new manufacture

@alexiskobalt7450 4 месяца назад

How does one say: "YOU ARE A FOOL" in your native language? The reason BM has slashed the price is because the camera was not a strong seller and they want to clear out inventory before the Pyxis is released in a matter of weeks. The promotion is not time-restricted but STOCK-restricted. In other words, the Pocket FF has been soft discontinued. You think it was coincidence that the Pyxis is essentially the Pocket FF in a box? They are using the same parts (mostly). BM is retooling its production line in China to only make the Pyxis (and no more Pocket FFs) in order to maximize efficiency.

@BorisTheArtist 4 месяца назад

Who the hell are you and what outstanding high-end shit have you done to have a right to think you're smarter than someone and have a right to insult? Because clearly you didn't watch the video, since I say exactly that FF is being slashed because of Pyxis. So stop making a fool of yourself and go back to your little troll cave.

@alexiskobalt7450 4 месяца назад

@@BorisTheArtist Yes, I watched the WHOLE idiotic video. Yes, you mentioned the Pyxis - in passing - as a garbage camera. But did you state that the FF was discontinued and it's a sales/supply chain/manufacturing strategy at play here? NO! You just whined about the price dropping 40% in six months and all the indie filmies who would be crying along with you. Did the Pyxis exist when all those people bought (and loved) the FF back then? No. Did they get value for their $$$? Yes. So grow up and stop your baby whining.

@bmefilms6879 4 месяца назад

@@BorisTheArtist man you are high strung dude. repeating the same thing for different commenters. how do you benefit bashing BM cameras, besides clout chasing for views? The image from this camera is stellar. doesn't matter what you or anybody else tells us. we use the cameras because we love the image, price and the software it comes with. It makes no sense trying to convince us to not like a camera over another.

@ivandj707 4 месяца назад

For someone who has already bought 6K ff, this is a very unpleasant loss of $1000, but for others this lower price is a very tempting, given the quality of the footage that can be obtained.

@enregistreur 4 месяца назад

They probably got a good deal on the sensors since they use them in the Pyxis. Yeah I would be upset if I bought it just before the price drop, but hey, you can still get a second one for cheaper!

@BorisTheArtist 4 месяца назад

It just shows that you should never buy blackmagic at the retail price, because you will surely will get it with 40% off anyway.

@RubenStuveling 4 месяца назад

@@BorisTheArtist Most people will not wait for that 1 week reduction in price without even knowing when it will occur. Most camera's will be sold at normal retail value.

@BorisTheArtist 4 месяца назад

@@RubenStuveling this affects gray and used markets as this is actual cost and BM brand value in general. It's not the first time they're doing it, and overall you can find great deals on used BM cameras a year after they got released, where it's 40% off the price. That kind of price drop you rarely see from any other brand. And this is just blackmagic trying to get rid of FF to prepare the place for their shitty Pyxis.

@RubenStuveling 4 месяца назад

@@BorisTheArtist BMCC 6K is not going away when the Pyxis is released. A lot of people will prefer BMCC form factor over Pyxis form factor.

@DesignedbyKirk 3 месяца назад

Womp womp

@BeierFilms 4 месяца назад

I literally bought the 6k Pro two days before the price drop. I'm feeling a bit torn now, wondering if it would have been better to buy the 6k Full Frame and have an extra $900 for lenses and lighting though I ultimately think I'm still happy I went with the 6k Pro because of the ND filters, ProRes, and better low-light performance. That said, I would be devasted if I had purchased the 6k Full Frame; especially because they're not returnable thanks to the Resolve license. I wonder if the 6k Pro is more expensive to make. I've wondered why we havn't seen any real price drops in the last three years while the 6k G2 has come down by $400. Note to BMD: Please don't now immediately drop the price of the 6k Pro and make me feel stupid...

@BorisTheArtist 4 месяца назад

In my opinion, 6K Pro is a way better camera than Full Frame, so I wouldn't worry. And at least EF mount has an Upgrade path to any other camera, since Ursas, Arri, Red, Sony, you can put EF on those. No point in L mount at all.

@bmefilms6879 4 месяца назад

Dont take advice from stupid people. You can adapt so many mounts to L. Fd, Nikon, PL to name a few. EF's Flange distance is very limiting for adapting other mounts.

@BorisTheArtist 3 месяца назад

@@bmefilms6879 if only there was a single good L mount camera

@jmac2050 4 месяца назад

f the Pyxis can go for 2.5k or 2k , considering about 2k in accessories for it. might get some slack at review time. 3k for an old camera, less features, in a different shell. not a good look..

@jmac2050 4 месяца назад

Electronic devices are cheap to make, people just don't get that. old box TVs and monitors (cathoray tubes) used to be expensive to make by in the days. flat-screens, phones, motherboards are printed, super cheap to make in batches.

@BorisTheArtist 4 месяца назад

Pyxis is a stupid camera in general. Useless screen, and considering they have Ursas with rotatable side screens, BM looks even more stupid for this decision, then again, it has the same crippled features as "Pocket" FF. Considering a terrible rolling shutter, poor slow mo, poor low light... And as you said, considering that to rig it up you need another 1-2K, it's already what? 4-5K? You're looking at all kinds of different REAL cinema cameras in that price range. Ursa 12K and G2, used Komodo, older Red and Arri. Not some junk 26ms rolling shutter jello maker.

@AllThingsKen 3 месяца назад

will not cost 2k for accessories

@jmac2050 3 месяца назад

@@AllThingsKen lens, monitor, auto focus, focus puller, memory cards, batteries, ND filters, hard drive for storage..etc. about 3k for accessories😁

@AllThingsKen 3 месяца назад

@@jmac2050 you should already have most of those things if you have a pocket lol

@garypranzo9334 4 месяца назад

It is a fire sale. This cameraa is done. S52X on one end and Pyxis on the other end the Pocket full frame has no point. That said for $1600 it is compelling.

@WassimJelassi 4 месяца назад

its cheap and overpriced and its the same for all the cameras. even 40% off they keep making good profit

@thebunn 4 месяца назад

It's possible that a G2 is already around the corner. Maybe they have a flip-out / rotating screen and NDs coming... No price drop can help the current awkward body , non flip-out screen, and terrible battery life. The "football" still has to be rigged, but it's awkward to rig. At least the Pyxis is prime for rigging and has a great native battery solution.

@menoats 4 месяца назад

If they had AF I would say farewell to Sony and Panasonic. I love black magic miss my Pocket 4K. Braw and the colors are just amazing. Even contemplating this deal.

@BorisTheArtist 4 месяца назад

Pyxis is shit. Like, really. It's still the same Full Frame with the same issues, but with a useless screen and, considering this price drop, for twice more money

@BorisTheArtist 4 месяца назад

@@menoats if BM had AF, IBIS, remote monitoring app, better built bodies, better iso performance, weather resistance, dust sealing, linear focusing support... Yes, you get raw, but is raw worth all the extra pain to get the shot done as a solo operator (and BM is advertised as for solo operators)? I'm not sure anymore. And all the people who say "well it's meant to be used on film sets" and bla bla bla... If you're shooting a student project, or a small commercial or some corporate, any 10 bit will look good, and if you want to work on higher end projects, nobody would want a fucking pocket, right? They would rent Alexa or Red, OR... Venice and you can even use E mount glass on that one. So yeah, I'm gonna sell my pocket 4K once I'm back from traveling and we'll see where I go from there.

@thebunn 4 месяца назад

@@BorisTheArtist Most of the camera that you describe can be found in the FX3. As for box camera alternatives, and your interest in Sony, they have the Burano. But that price is rough.

@BorisTheArtist 4 месяца назад

@@thebunn exactly. But realistically, it really doesn't matter at this level. It's not even about the level of the camera, it's the production value that matters. Bullshit hyped social media marketing poisoned our brains think that we need all the features to create, while in reality it's what was preached a few years ago that "camera doesn't matter". Good story, lights, sound, acting... Way more important. And the more I shoot lately, the more I grade mirrorless, I realize I can make anything look like anything in certain conditions, the conditions that filmmakers should create while filming.

@CINENIMUS 4 месяца назад

Yeah haha I bet it cost like $100 to make cheap junk

@POW.CREEPER 4 месяца назад

Yup, thats what it is. If you watch the break down videos of the BMPCC and say Canon/Sony, you can see the parts are way cheaper and bulkier, so im sure they are making a pretty penny.

@Henchproductions 3 месяца назад

And a used s1h is still a better camera. Especially when paired with a black magic video assist

@peterra2532 3 месяца назад

Why? With this deal, The bmcc full frame is cheaper than a used s1h. Add the price and size of a blackmagic assist = less interesting. The only advantage of the s1h is the IBIS

@Henchproductions 3 месяца назад

@@peterra2532 reports have already shown the bmcc performs worse in low light. And ibis is absolutely worth it.

@rumenalexandrov 3 месяца назад

My man you don’t know what you are talking…

@georged822 4 месяца назад

I always loved BM video quality for the $$, ever since the OG pocket cinema camera (even back in the day, BM slashed the price of the OG pocket from $1,000 to $500 during a sale!! I couldn’t really afford that insane deal back then). I haven’t shot much video with my S1R, but I love it for photos. How stupid would it be to buy the bmcc 6k if I have an S1r and don’t shoot video very often… (I’m a sucker for deals lol)

@deniss.6205 3 месяца назад

don' t jump, its not worth it mate!

@CINENIMUS 4 месяца назад

Wtf you shot this with??? Skin tones look MINT 👌

@BorisTheArtist 4 месяца назад

Sony Venice haha

@maxvorobey1316 4 месяца назад

Just casually shooting RU-vid videos on a Sony Venice. What a boss 💪🏼

@orcanimal 4 месяца назад

@@BorisTheArtist Holy... talk about overkill :)

@teckno_senpai 4 месяца назад

@@BorisTheArtist bruh i just screamed VENICEEEE? lmfao thats crazy. what a luxury you have

@Frontigenics 3 месяца назад

Really? To me it looks like a 5D markII from 2008...

@muhammaddng8232 4 месяца назад

I think that Blackmagic, instead of expanding the size of the image, needs to develop the codec itself. 12 bits is not enough in the face of the 16 bits available in the RED camera. It also needs to add a stabilizer to the sensor, with effective autofocus, and a small, lightweight camera body. I was of Investors in Blackmagic cameras, but already felt that the sensor itself and processing were not as efficient as required

@BorisTheArtist 4 месяца назад

Yup, their technology is way behind competitors, but there's the whole cult of BM fanboys who would buy anything, so BM keeps milking them.

@muhammaddng8232 4 месяца назад

@@BorisTheArtist Yes of course, totally agree

@Frontigenics 3 месяца назад

12-bit BRAW is 16-bit linear when decoded.

@Frontigenics 3 месяца назад

@@BorisTheArtist "Yup, their technology is way behind competitors, but there's the whole cult of BM fanboys who would buy anything, so BM keeps milking them." lol, WAY behind competitors? What are you talking about? They're the one of the few companies besides Red that offers internal RAW. The only companies that are "milking fanboys" are the ones still offering 4:2:2 10-bit crap.

@FrankGlencairn 3 месяца назад

Actually it is 16 bit - understand the difference between log and linear.

@b_cinematographer 4 месяца назад

But this only applies to the L mount, which most likely will not sell...

@BorisTheArtist 4 месяца назад

It's only L mount, and considering that they didn't make new Ursas with L mount, means there's no upgrade path for L mount in general, which makes it even less attractive

@AllThingsKen 3 месяца назад

who cares just cheaper for us.