Great video James I literally wrote a post saying people don’t understand the magnitude of that 17K 65MM sensor the fact that it can be in our grasp is astounding I also feel like by the time that comes out they’ll be a GEN six color science that will take the camera to a whole different level
Just a correction and a bit of information missed about the camera. First the Battery isn't BPU, like the PYXIS, but B-Mount by ARRI which was introduced for the Alexa35. The B-Mount was designed to be the high end standard for 24v cameras, because V-mount is typically 14.4v, and while there are higher voltage V-mount variant options, V-Mount also doesn't have the most secure connector, and batteries have been known to pop off if they wear or if the batter and plate are at opposite tolerance extremes. Second the sensor is made by Blackmagic due to it's RGBW mosaic pattern; however, the two game changing aspects of this sensor design over other sensors of this size are first it doesn't crop when shooting at lower resolutions, except 9k which was specifically designed to be a super 35 crop. This means if one shoots at 12k, 8k or 4k in RAW they are shooting using the full sensor size or which ever aspect ratio they gate it to, but the lower resolutions do increase the frame rate potential while using it meaning it it one of the fastest shutters of a sensor of this size at the given resoluteness outside of global shutters. Secondly, of the high end cinema cameras like RED and ARRI that have use multiple sensors stitched together in the past to make the larger sensor, these are non stitched sensors. So there won't be cases where a sensor seam in the image shows up; however, beyond that we'll need to wait and see haw the dynamic range, latitude and noise performance of this sensor compares to the other cameras. Lastly it's a 12bit LOG encoded RAW. People often confuse 12bit linear with 12bit long encoded, and they are not the same. A log encoded RAW works of the fundamental math of ln(2^16) which results in just over 11 bits of information. The reason one does that is human perception of light is logarithmic, thus it requires exponentially more light for every stop of light. Thus by applying a natural log function of some form then can add an inverse function in post and recover the same values. This is why both ARRI and Blackmagic use Log encoded RAW; however, Blackmagic states it's non-linear 12bit encoded RAW (aka log encoded in some form) where as ARRI literally calls it log encoded RAW.
Thanks for this information. There is a note correction in the video stating it's B-mount instead of BPU which I incorrectly stated. But it's good to still point it out. Also regarding the sensor and the 12 bit, it's using 16bit but then it's scaling down to 12 bit. How much that changes things I do not know, but just something to digest on. Great comment mate!
@@JamesJacksonFilmz yes, that's why the math is ln(2^16). ln() is the natural log and 2^16 is 16 bit. Thus the result of getting the natural log of 16 bits is 11.090354889 bits log encoded. The reason it works is because the goal is to get a linear quantity of bits per stop result from an exponential quantity of perceived light. That way both the darkest stop and the brightest stop use the same quantity of steps in the resulting files space. Then on decode the opposite exponential curve is multiplied against those sample points and we get the same resulting curve. Any concern about conversion "loss" is superficial because any HDR display is going to be limited to 10bits at most meaning we have well over 4 times the output colors depth just to form the reconstruction color curves and the in-between variations would require liner gradients in the tens of thousands of pixels in width or height to potentially perceive, and given human vision has a maximum potential perception of roughly 5k at best at the aspect ratios and viewing angles for these cameras target formats, any inaccuracies from the process are far beyond the realm of even potentially perceptible. There is literally more chance of random nose having more effect on an image than any calculation inaccuracy. That is why both companies use it.
I heard the Cine 17k should be between $20k and $25k... that a HUGE freaking deal. Even if it would be $30k, people just don't measure how much it could change the industry, not just for big movies, but for all indies, small budget movies that could now reduce their cost by buying couple of Cine 17k for a movie instead of renting an Alexa 65, and now this production company will have the cameras to make all next movies for no additional camera cost... I mean for $100k, a Production company could get 3 to 4 Cine 17k cameras and still be under budget in comparison to renting an Alexa 65 or IMAX camera. I think it's also gonna push other manufacturers to come with something similar and competitive, so it will shift the whole industry... sure big $200M+ movies will still be using Arris and IMAXs, but all others might go in another direction. Because a Cine 17k is way smaller and lighter (and quieter) than an IMAX camera... Imagine how many indie filmmakers could just save up and buy a $20-30k camera and now have a tools just as great as the top movie directors. And with the power of computers that keep increasing quickly, it won't be such a burden to edit 12k or 17k footage. The only downside right now is just about stockage, HDDs aren’t reliable and SSD/NVME are still quite expensive for large storage (like 500TB to 1PB storage). But technology will catch up eventually. I just can't wait to watch it happening... what a great period to be alive.
It changes and memories never lost for a wedding because their child will always be amazing a lot and lot when they grown up watching there parents getting married there film will be 17K resolution a great thing for them too but all wedding film is very beautiful memories never lost that why I love these things camera shooting when specially when going other countries and shooting all preparation for any all events and going to any excursion or picnic these things shooting these time it like being said we capture the time precious in camera.
Thank you so very much! For my upcoming Western mini series wild western show projects the 17k will bring those productions to the film market where I dream of being! Already I’m planning to purchase 4 ursa cine 12k for my Gospel music videos!! Thank you so much for this review! I’ve attended Vegas NAB TRADE SHOWS since 2014! Thank you Black Magic Design company for your latest Ursa 12k & 17k cinema cameras!!
great observations, especially explaining use cases and the possibilities of having this 17k technology, being owned, instead of used via rental houses. Also restating the ability to shoot in ProRes via external recorders is significant,, as well as satisfying another common use case.
According to Blackmagic they're using A.I. (not electronics from the lenses) for focus readings. You'd just have to attach your lens, open it all the way and then close it all the way and A.I. remembers the focus points. insane.
price is hard to say . really depends on how much the difference is on the cost of sensor for BMD. i am guessing 20k since everything else on the body is identical really comes down to how much more the 17k is to produce then the 12 k
Agree, but I think they should charge much more for it, in the 30k just to make it 'professional'. Sometimes, charging more helps you validate your product
Yeah i accept it(17K video sensor)is a shock to industry BUT it isnot ready yet,it needs a time to be completed even after release like NIKON Z9,we know these well,Software&hardware integrity takes time as to grew,we must be awaiting,and also RGBW type of sensor needs to be well-progressed,we dont know it well,Yeah the 17K is a shock as its bringing the 65mm film similarity to digital world in a "MASS" approach,as MASS Production and Mass Usage and Mass release,BUT IMAX is not replaceable,its sensable real film emulsion,it is the living history like Super 35mm or like what 70mm film(5mm for sound strip stick-65 mm for picture capture)brought to the cinema in 50s-70s
The Cine 17k is announced for the end of the year. We're in April, that barely few months to wait, that's nothing in a scale where movie production could take years to make. Also, don't underestimate the new Resolve Studio features for film emulations... it's a whole ecosystem. If you shoot with a Cine 17k, edit and post prod it with Resolve Studio, the end result could have a look & feel similar to IMAX... and for smaller budget movies, that's all that matter, the result. If the result is great, it doesn't matter if it was done with an IMAX camera in Avid Composer or with an Ursa Cine 17k in Resolve Studio... it's all about the "big picture" here (pun intended).
Their marketing has been focusing on the res numbers but if you look deeper. The res increase also leads to better down sampling and colours. The 12k cine has 16 stops of DR and I wouldn't be surprised if the 17k was the same.
The high resolution is just a means to get IMAX resolution and sensor size. The dynamic range increasing to 16 stops is already impressive. Don’t think 16 bit raw will happen whilst RED have that patent in place sadly!
