The Stark in the beginning is Cregan Stark, Lord of Winterfell and Warden of the North. The sword he had is Ice, House Starks ancestral Valaryian sword. Its the same sword Ned had in GOT.
Yeah... okay what about the guards in the room. We see one but I am sure there are more. It's the fucking king and no one protects him... especially in this condition : drunk and late at night... come one. This was the emptiest and worst protected castle ever. Damon easily can get more people in, spread in the chambers and kill all greens. I am sure there are more people in the guard that are loyal to him. The season can easily end here. I can find a reason why Rhaenys did nothing last season but here is just dumb
@@DesAnanieva “what about the guards in the room” the guards saw two rat catchers. It’s not uncommon for them to be around the castle. One of them (Cheese) is a rat catcher they’ve seen around before, why would they think twice about seeing him? They literally show Cheese earlier in the episode before the small council meeting and no one pays any attention to him being there - establishing that rat catchers can kind of go around without being questioned.
@@ambersmith1018 yes he is seen but as you establish yourself the high lords and ladies doesn't pay attention to the commoners. Every one with a rat trap can go around the castle... Damon easily can bribe a few legit mouse catchers and kill all the greens. He is not known in the upper floors. He said it himself. There are other groups for the elits chambers... and still there is no guard in this floor to see, stop or question them... come on. This is a big fat plot whole. Do you think someone can walk in Damon and Rhaenyra's castle like that?
It’s also very symbolic because the greens this episode are stressing their safety, as if nothing can hurt them. So Cheese walking around in the background is a bit ironic.
Just to clarify though - Cheese asked Daemon “what do we do if we can’t find aemond?” and we don’t see Daemon’s response but his smirk and Blood saying they were told “a son for a son” implies that Daemon told them to kill Aegon’s son as a plan B.
@@sproductionsinc it's not in the book..... it happened in this episode, op just explained it if any1 missed it..... no spoiler for future episodes or anything
Helena is definitely a character to pay attention to, she’s had 3 “prophecies” come true so far. People say she is a dreamer, similar to Aegon and his A Song of Ice and Fire prophecy with the Prince who was promised. In season 1 when Aemond is complaining that he hasn’t bonded with a dragon, in the background Helena says “he’ll have to close an eye”. And then as Bryce pointed out she warned them about the “beast beneath the floors” before Rhaenys rides Meleys back to the Blacks. And then sadly this episode it’s to beware of the rats, not the dragons.
She’s not a dreamer, she is a plot device for the writers to use some random words to make some foreshadowing. There is not a single shot of her actually dreaming and dreams don’t work like that. She is definitely not a dreamer in the book. She just says one-liners and then does nothing about them, doesn’t even try to warm anyone. It’s just for effect.
@@aquele4virou3 the book is not canon, it is multiple, unreliable narrators. You can have versions you prefer I get it. And Dani was the dreamer saving Targaryens from the Doom. And Aegon as well based on the show.
I wonder if Helaena will ever have, or ever had, a dream about the Long Night and the White Walkers... if that happens, whether or not the Greens listened or would listen, ummm.
@@SsLA2313yep! he is the commander of the Kings guard and he wasn't watching her and he didn't have any guards watching her either. My guess is because he didn't want to get caught with a alicent.
@@SsLA2313exactly why i can’t fuck with the greens they hypocrites😭, tho i genuinely do feel bad for Jaehaerys and Helaena, i don’t think they deserved that 🚶🏽♀️
Emma D’Arcy deserves an award for this episode alone, a phenomenal actor. Phia Saban who plays Helaena was amazing too, you could feel the fear and freeze response during that confrontation.
@@sproductionsincSame ❤ I could barely focus on the rest of the episode. As soon as I saw the dog, I knew it was going to get hurt. Filmmakers find it impossible to show a dog onscreen without something awful happening to them. It was so unnecessary to the plot, and the sound the dog made when he was in pain was hard to hear.
a few little things bc i breathe asoiaf: - helaena is a dragon dreamer; she gets prophetic visions, as other targaryens have/do in the future (dany has them!) in s1, helaena muttered a few things that came true, such as "he'll have to close an eye" alluding to aemond when alicent told him he'd have a dragon one day, then later "there's a beast beneath the boards" meaning meleys during the coronation - after helaena wedded aegon, alicent obviously wasn't queen anymore; helaena moved into the rooms that the queen resides in, and alicent funnily enough moved into rhaenyra's old apartments. helaena changed all the decor of the queen's apartments, whereas alicent didn't even move any of the furniture, which i think was an interesting touch - aegon likely brought his son jaehaerys to the small council meetings because viserys never did that for him; aegon grew up not knowing the love of his parents, and was neglected by his own father. that becomes clear when he's sitting in court and has no idea how to do things: because he was never brought to small council meetings to learn. he doesn't want the same for his son - the dog is a terrier; terriers are excellent hunters, especially with vermin. he might have been a jack russell terrier, which were the breed of dogs parachuted into the trenches during wwi to hunt and kill the rats to keep soldiers and their supplies safe from disease
Blood & Cheese followed Daemond's instruction for "a son for a son." When they asked Daemond "what if we don't find him" we didn't hear his answer, only saw his eyes. I believe Daemon did that because he WANTS a war ASAP & disagrees w/Rhaeneyra, (who only asked for Aemond's head). This GUARANTEES war which is what he really wants. Rhaeneyra will be pissed. That's the way I see it.
@@sproductionsinc But Aegon's son is more important since he would be future king because if Aegon dies, there's no heir. And maybe Aemond would be King...now that's interesting!
i dont think its a he wants war situation but rather he knows war is inevitable and hed rather be on the offensive than wait until another one of theirs is killed like luc.he knows otto, aemond, aegon, criston cole are all vile.
There’s subtle foreshadowing in this episode with helaena, she mutters something when aegon comes in (supposedly “they only want the boy”) she’s actually also embroidered funeral shroud for her son as well. And when she says rats she looks over to her son’s bed. As a dreamer, we can assume she’s seen this, maybe multiple times, even if it’s in glimpses. She can’t tell whether it’s real or a dream when B&C actually happens and at the end she finally actually realised that they’ve “killed the boy.”
I kept trying to figure out what she was whispering when the scene opened. She is such a Cassandra tragic character, no one pays her any heed. I also wonder if she had a vision right before she chose, she looks so lost
@@kylethompson3008Yeah Daemon is also a horrible person and brutally murdered his first wife with a rock (also slept with underage girls in the book) yet people love him so 🤷🏻♀️ No heroes in this story; most of them are not morally righteous characters.
@gee2541 Yeah, I don't know what comment you're replying to because I can't even see it anymore. Most characters in the story are morally gray or downright evil. Aegon grapes 12 year olds and abuses them, Daemon orders the death of a child, Aemon murders the child Luke and probably many others while he spends most of the war burning the Riverlands down, Cole pretends he's the most honorable person in the story when in fact he is one of the worst, Otto is responsible for all of it since he started the war in the first place by stealing Queen Rhaenyra throne all so he could remain in power. The only truly innocent are Helaena and her children and Rhaenyra kids.
From the book: "Amidst the stews of Flea Bottom, Prince Daemon's gobetween found suitable instruments. One had been a serjeant in the city watch; big and brutal, he had lost his gold cloak for beating a wh*re to death whilst in a drunken rage. The other was a ratcatcher in the Red Keep. Their true names are lost to history. They are remembered as Blood and Cheese". That's why the subtitles said "Blood" and "Cheese" for them.
I didn't see another comment say this, but sorry if it's a repeat. In the book, Aegon has two sons and a daughter. When Blood and Cheese confront Helaena, they tell her to choose a son to die. She reluctantly chose the younger in order to save Aegon's heir, and they turn to the youngest and tell him that his mother wants him dead. Blood then cuts the head off of the oldest. I think they changed to a son and daughter instead to relieve Helaena of the guilt of picking which child was more important by making the boy the only option.
In the books Blood&Cheese is much different. First off, Aemond is never mentioned to be the target, and Rhaenyra is not the one to incite the mission. Daemon sends Rhaenyra a letter from Harrenhal (in the books he is already there) that says- “An eye for an eye, a son for a son. Lucerys will be avenged”. B&C sneak into the Tower of the Hand, which is not guarded as heavily as Maegor’s Holdfast-where Aemond was-and they head for Alicent’s chambers, who was getting ready for bed (Criston and her are not a thing in the book). Helaena and her three children (Jaehaerys, Jaehaera, and Maelor, who was not present in the show version) were on the way for their nightly visit to Alicent. When they get there, they find Alicent tied to the bed and her bedmaid strangled. Blood bars the door and Cheese takes Maelor and tells Helaena to choose which son of hers will die. Helaena pleads that they kill her instead but they refuse, siting- “An eye for an eye, a son for a son. A wife is not a son.” Cheese tells her that if she does not choose then Blood will grape her daughter and they will kill everyone in the room. Eventually, Helaena chooses Maelor, her younger son. Maybe it was because she thought he would be too young to understand , or perhaps it was because the elder boy, Jaehaerys, was Aegon’s first born and heir. Cheese holds Maelor up and whispers to him- “You hear that, little one, your momma wants you dead”. Then, in one clean motion, Blood strikes of the older boys-Jaehaerys’s-head, and the two take off with it. When the guards finally burst through the door, they find Helaena grasping her son’s headless body to her, mad with grief. So yeah, Blood&Cheese is much more tame in the show.
Team Black too! 🖤🖤🖤🖤🖤 🐲⚫🐴🐟⚫🦅 (Those are symbols of Rhaenyra from book - dragon for her and her children with Daemon, seahorse for her three eldest sons who are Velaryons and falcon for her mother's family.)
I actually love that one of you just finished watching season 1 because he knew jorrey name and other things reactors forgot vs The regular watcher has seen it at least 5 times or plus watching the reaction channels
Quick info about Vhaegar's wings. She is battle WORN! Shes the most war experienced dragon currently. She didnt get to be the biggest bad in the sky without gaining some battle wounds. ❤
Honestly, this "choose your team" thing is about choosing your favorite group of war criminals, and always has been. Like I get the kid killing is rough, but even before that, Rhaenys casually murdering dozens of people during Aegon's coronation (given he is not the rightful king, ok, by the laws of the land and succession was settled before his was born). Like ok, team "whatever", honestly, there are no good guys in this.
I mean... There's not but the show clearly has a side. Don't get me wrong I'm not for either team but the show clearly has chosen a side. Which is a bummer 😕
I hate how everyone is bitching about it not being one to one like it happened in the book, but people forget that this are still child actors and making it even more gruesome would do no good, not for them or the audience. Some people can only handle that much and the gnarly sounds were enough, while in the book it was a single clean cut.
Just so y’all are aware, Halaena is a “Dreamer” lol. In Lore, some Targaryens have been said to have visions of the future. They’re called “Dragon Dreams”. Aenys Targaryen (The first dreamer, as I recall) foresaw the Doom of Valyria (the Targaryen homeland) and while her and her family escaped, most other Valyrian houses went extinct. This is why Targaryens are known today as the “ONLY” family of Dragon Riders. But with all that being said, Bryce it’s crazy that you mentioned what Halaena said in season 1 because that did in fact go with Meleys busting out of the floor, but I think it could also be about Blood and Cheese 🧐
Emma Darcy's acting throughout this first episode was amazing. Literally didn't speak a word until towards the end, everything expressed through body language and facial expression. I cried seeing the emotion of a mother mourning her child. It was so devastatingly beautiful.
I'm so sad we didn't get to meet Jeyne Arryn yet, (one of the few gay female characters from the books, and as a queer person I was looking forward to it). However the Blood and cheese scene in the book is so much worse than the show portrayed.
I never saw alicent or cole as hypocrites. But showrunners did this at the cost of character assasination of both alicent and cole. They were so much more interesting when they were about their duty and vows. There's was no build up for this. It was just kind of thrown in your face without showing how they got there. It adds nothing to the plot but to take away from the brutality of the blood and cheese scene.
I think hypocrite is a strong word but I always thought they were both hiding behind the cover of duty and vows during S1. Criston already broke his vows (chastity/ Joffery etc) and Alicent...well she paid off the maid/ conspired with Larys...neither of them were "pure" or truly honourable. I always thought it would come to this because of how overly religious/ righteous Alicent became (7 pointed star was everywhere by end of S1). That plus the interaction she had with Criston in ep 9 where I think she said something like "whatever you feel for me...as your Queen." I wondered during S1 if she became more religious because there was something going on there, because usually when people try hard to be overly righteous, they are trying to atone for something.
So many good misdirects in that last scene. We think Aegon and his friends will notice them. Then the maid sees Blood setting the trap, we think she’ll get help. Then the torch rolls across the ground, we think that the place will burn down
The sword Cregan Stark is carrying at the beginning of the show is “Ice” the same sword we see Ned wield in GOT it is Valyrian steel sword of house Stark
I’m not tryna compare the level of ptsd but not only did Helaena have to choose who should be killed she even had to watch it and see it happen with no power of being able to stop it from happening
You wondered how Daemon found out about Lucerys death, well like we heard in the show it was a Raven but that’s all we hear. In the books it is said that the watchers on the castles walls of storms end heard dragon shrieks drown out the thunder and then silence, so it’s possible them that sent the raven
@@p1ysaucedo ….he is the head of the kings guard, who guards the kings family. I’d say he should be out protrolling the hallways, not in bed with the queen mother.
Cregan is Lord of Winterfell. He and Jace bond and make the pact of ice and fire. He is a big Black loyalist. The sword is Ice, the Valyrian steel sword from House Stark. There’s a huge ass timeline issue in this scene. He says his father brought King Jaehaerys and Queen Alysanne to the wall. No. His father, Rickon Stark appeared in ep 1 swearing allegiance to Rhaenyra. The guy who showed the wall, Alaric, was most likely his great-grandfather. King Jaehaerys has been dead for over 35 years at this point. The wall trip happens even before Viserys and Daemon’s mother is born. They fuck up the timeline so bad multiple times in the show. Alysanne’s dragon, Silverwing, refused to cross the wall. Which a lot of people believe was George trolling the GOT writers who had Dany’s dragons crossing so easily. Laena doesn’t die like that in the book, she would never commit suicide. She dies trying to get to vhagar for a last ride as she loved flying, after the birth goes wrong and she knew she was dying. Daemon, who truly loved her, finds her and carries her body back, and seats vigil over her with Rhaenyra, who was very close to them both. Criston said he wouldn’t be Rhaenyra’s whore. Now he is Alicent’s. Lucerys took Aemonds eye because he was going to kill Jace with a rock and Aemond was never punished either. He cracked Jace’s head open and broke Luke’s nose too. He also wasn’t punished for committing treason by repeating what mommy told him. The little one is Joffrey, named after Laenor’s dead lover, who Criston killed. He is now heir to Driftmark in Luke’s place. Aegon and Viserys are her sons with Daemon, and they are not twins. They are important for the story too. People were pissed off for Alicent scene in the middle of the funeral. She is the one that instigate the hatred between her sons and Rhaenyra’s. Even kid Aemond said it had been a fair exchange, so you better believe his obsession was fed by “how dare that bastard take your eye” even though Jace and Luke are ahead in the line for the throne. The bastardy is just a rumor in the books. Rhaenys was supposed to have dark hair, because her mother as a Baratheon and Rhaenyra’s mom was a Arryn, her hair color is never described. Aemond “Lord Strong” jab is wrong, bc if they were confirmed bastards, they’d be called Waters, not Strong. The greens start the war in both accounts. Both diplomatically, a succession dispute, and the active war, as Aemond commits the worst sin, kinslayimg, and kills a peace envoy during negotiations. But the first blood was way back then, when Alicent asked Larys to get rid of the Hand, and he killed his father and brother (they try to say she didn’t know, but how else would Lyonel Strong stop being hand so her daddy could come back?) Once Aemond kills Luke, the books says the wars of ravens ended, and the war of fire and blood began. Blood and Cheese is a retribution common for the universe. Usually, when there’s wars, the victor takes the heir of their enemy hostage to keep them in line, otherwise the heir is killed. Kids do not have the same meaning in medieval times as today (parents loving their children more then just a mean of legacy begins after the Industrial Revolution, bc before it was common for them to die young, and people didn’t want to get attached.) In the book, is way heavier. Daemon tells Rhaenyra “An eye for an eye, a son for a son. Lucerys shall be avenged” in a letter and he asks Mysaria to hire assassins. She is the one who hires B&C. They keep Alicent hostage in her quarters until Helaena gets there with the kids, who are all awake. She has three, the twins, Jaehaerys and Jaehaera, and the younger one, Maelor. She offers herself, but they say they were asked for a son. Then they make her choose between the two. She chooses the youngest, but they kill the oldest and tell the other “your mama wants you dead”. Helaena goes crazy with guilt and grief. In the show, Maelor doesn’t exist.
Team Black 🖤🖤🖤🖤!!! Alicent and Criston's hypocrisy is stunning. There's nothing that would ever make me be a fan of Alicent or her monster of a son Aegon. Hope Zuff feels better soon!
I mean... Daemon groomed his neice, brutally murdered his first wife, neglected his child, screwed around with his neice at his second wife's funeral, then ordered "a son for a son"... I think Daemon is the real monster here.
Cregan Stark is not the Lord Commander of the Night's Watch, he is Lord of Winterfell (like Ned Stark was) and he actually has kids (which he couldn't have were he part of the Night's Watch, since they make a vow of celibacy). Also, on his back, it's Ice, House Stark's "token sword" that Ned uses at the beginning of s1 and gets destroyed by the Lannisters after the Red Wedding. It's Valyrian steel, which is important, in an universe where D&D didn't ruin the whole lore with their writing lol. And yes, Helaena and Aegon are brother and sister, and married. Typical Targaryen stuff lol. Jaehaera and Jaehaerys are their children. In the book, they have a third child at that point. In s1 of HOTD, Rhaenyra proposes a marriage between her son Jacaerys and Helaena to Alicent to unite their families, but Alicent refuses.
Daemon is blaming others when he was the one who really caused this issue in the first place. If when his wife Lena died he had immediately bonded Vhagar with his daughter or himself. Obviously, they can have more than one dragon - Daenerys did. He lost the biggest power in the world which is why the children fought, why Ameond lost an eye, held a grudge against Lucerys, and murdered him. The blame stops at Daemon - the adult. If Rhaenys had burned the greens when she escaped she would have held the label "Kingslayer" for life. It would have cost her house their honor and she could've paid with it with her own life because Daemon would be speaking about her being bitter for never being queen and "How dare she kill his brother's sons." That was a no-win scenario for her and she knew it. I really like Daemon but this was on him from the start.
It's a good idea for the king to bring his son (the heir) to Council, but not at the age of four; the boy will learn nothing and just associate the Council with being bored and restless. Poor little Jaehaerys will never have the chance to become a royal cupbearer (a post reserved for the monarch's children or children of other Great Houses).
I'm never the one to say I like how a book lays out a scene better than a movie or show. But I wish they had kept Helaena having 2 boys and being made to choose between them only for them to kill the one she didn't choose. That would have been so heartbreaking to see. I still liked watching this, but that would have been a nice plot point to keep in the show.
this episode was done well. and reanyra killed it with the non verbal performance. and her dragon also mourning its own child was sad. but I feel the worst for heleana. she has the worst deal in this I feel like. no one gets her, no on listens to her. she doesn't want to be queen. shes married to her rapey brother who doesn't like her. and now she saw her baby get decapitated. this poor girl has done nothing wrong.
definitely team green, my preference being based on who I want on the throne not which characters I like since it would be odd not to like characters on both sides so you can enjoy all parts of the show
@@KelpyG. well I’m a book reader so Aegon II was my favourite character reading it and it seems the show version is also following that arc. I also like Alicent and Otto - both interesting characters. Larys I also find intriguing based on what’s to come. On the blacks side I like Rhaenyra, Corlys and Daemon. Alicent, Rhaenyra and Aegon are my top 3 characters overall.
@@hali_55 I swear the book readers are always Team Green bc they actually understand the lore. Blacks are so much crueler in the books than on the show.
Finidng characters 'interesting' is not the same as rooting for them. Rooting for egon and Alicent is basically rooting for misogyny and taking away woman's throne simply because of her gender.
a few things I love about this episode: -Daemon learned something! Rhaenys told him that Rhaenyra might need some time to find acceptance that Luke is dead, so when Rhaenyra came back he just asked "did you find what you needed?" and not in a mean "can we finally stop crying and go to work now" way. It seemed like he understood Rhaenys and learned. -Rhaenyra is acting like Alicent. I kow most of us are team Black, but we still need to see the flaws in Rhaenyra, that's why the GoT world is so great. When Aemond lost an eye Alicent said "an eye for an eye", which Viserys obviously didn't like and Rhaenyra was like "finally everyone can see how fucked up you are". Now it's the other way around and Rhaenyra acts the same way, "a son for a son". I'm sure she didn't intend to have the young Jaehaerys' head, but still. Both aren't so far off from each other. -Jacaerys trying to do his duty and report to his Queen but as soon as his mother was close he leaned into her arms first. It's just a beautiful detail, kids do this all the time when they're stressed or scared. I loved that! -Aemond being like "I'm at fault for starting the war, when Alicent and the small council plotted to ignore Rhaenyra and put Aegon on the throne in the first place? Sure, it's my fault." And to be clear, Criston isn't bitchy because Rhaenyra friendzoned him. He's angry because Rhaenyra selfishly used her power because she was in the mood for sexy time. As Criston said, he doesn't come from a big house, he has nothing to his name but being part of the Kingsguard and Rhaenyra brought him in a fucked up situation without caring about the consequences. Criston being angry is understandable. He carries it too far though.
nobody could ever make me like alicent. i empathize with her past experiences & trauma & i understand where she’s coming from to a certain degree. i also will not shame her for having sexual liberation (even though she literally did that to rhaenyra) because i believe every woman deserves to have that but i refuse to be pressured into absolving her of the part she played in treating another woman the way she treated rhaenyra & her children. i’m glad her apologists have to finally look the hypocrisy dead in the face. cheering her on while she actively partakes in snubbing another woman of her inheritance is weird behavior. i couldn’t imagine supporting that especially being a woman myself. anyways, team rhaenyra until the bitter end 🗡️🖤
'Interesting' doesn't mean characters actions should be root for. Alicent is interesting character, but I could never root for someone who takes away rightful heiress inheritence simply because of her gender and give it to son who isn't even very competent. 🤷🏻♂
@@pendragonsxskywalkers9518When did I say that finding characters interesting means you should root for them? Never said that. But regarding Alicent, you missed so much nuance with her character. She didn’t simply usurp the throne for fun or because of Rhaenyra’s gender; she was trying to protect her family and believed they would be in a precarious situation due to Otto constantly telling her that her children would be in danger and no one batting an eye when her son’s eye was taken out and he was permanently maimed. You are looking at this character through a surface-level lens when her reasoning is much more complicated. That doesn’t mean she’s right but it’s not as simple as you’re framing it.
@@gee2541 You didn't say that - I simply left my thoughts on matter why rooting for Alicent is problematic, despite Greens being 'interesting' as characters. 'she was trying to protect her family ' - Yes, but ultimately her actions put her family in danger. Alicent could cultivate friendhisp with Rhaenyra, to make sure her children will never get harm, but she choose path of betrayal. Aemond lost eye - after he tried hit another boy with rock, at the same tme insulting his nephews and threatning them. And that was all Alicent doing - if she didn't taught her sons to despise their nephews, Aemond's confrontation would never happen.
