+Sadik Shabani 6 cylinder or v8 doesnt matter ?! look at nissan gt-r, he eat both of this cars with a v6 and im saying that without being a nissan fan.
+Felix Winter i think you are stupid comparing a legend supercar made for epic lap times with those german, made for family, weekend, big autobahn drives
Für 1990 BMW f36 & e30 hahahaha what bmw motor sport? Where are they "motor SPORT" in Formula 1, DTM races? They do not exist, they can not get close to the mercedes :)
Bin sowohl BMW- Fan als auch Mercedes- Fan. Aber für Kurvenfahrten eindeutig der M4. In Sachen Handling, Abstimmung, Effizienz, etc. einfach viel besser und auch die Lage ist einfach nahezu perfekt. Fühlt sich sehr leicht an in den Kurven (Porsche- Niveau). Hinzu kommt noch das Preis-Leistungsverhältnis, vollausgestatteter C63 viel teurer als ein vollausgestatteter M4. Der C63 lässt sich sehr komfortabel bewegen, und ist meiner Meinung nach alltagstauglicher, schöner V8 Sound ( wobei ich das Geschrei vom R6 persönlich geiler finde ! ) Für einen Sportwagen ist die Lenkung leider viel zu indirekt :( Ich spreche aus Erfahrung bin beide lange genug Probe gefahren. Ebenfalls hab ich mich viel mit den beiden Wagen befasst :). Mein Sieger: der M4 aber alles Geschmackssache!
+Aleksandr Yevteushenko oh really ? crying baby ? LOL actually BMW have sexy sound.... i like mercedes but about sound.... BMW have sexier sound, merc is like sound of truck
These kind of comments make me wish only engineers were allowed to comment on such subject. The two engines have almost identical weight, rated power outputs are to be taken with a grain of salt, not to mention that the BMW's engine has a flatter power curve on paper. Rated fuel consumption and emission figures are also identical, despite the Merc having a considerably heavier chassis, not to forget the superior throttle response of AMG's 4.0L TT(especially at that lower rated power output) And I haven't even mentioned that Mercs tend to have much more honest speedometers. SO, knowing all that, how is the M4 victorious here?
***** Let me answer your stupid question. But first, let me hint yours stupid point. "The two engines have almost identical weight, rated power outputs are to be taken with a grain of salt," Since when engine weight is more effective to power output than the friction of cylinder wall and rotation mass? BMW's engine have a flatter power? yeah so? McLaren M838T with MP4-12C tuning are way flatter, 443 lb/ft from 3000-7000 rpm... What does that tells? It tells the engine able to reach more torque than 443 but they (McLaren) Limited it to 442 lb/ft by reducing boost pressure, inlet duct length, wastegate, etc... (Mostly wastegate). See what happened next? P1 cranks 531 lb/ft but at a high 7500 rpm, torque kicks in later than Ferrari's 6500 rpm. Reason? All McLaren did is add boost by increasing wastegate. If you're smart enough, go and have a look at P1's torque curve, most torque happens at 3000 rpm but max torque happens late 7500 rpm due to widened wastegate for burning more fuel. That doesn't mean more urgent power but delayed max torque (when piston have the best thrust to drag ratio). That means McLaren's M838T is kind of a linear power engine (low tq high HP). In conclusion, the reason BMW have flatter power is because BMW is limiting the out put, same goes AMG. The S55 can crank more than 426, have a look at M4 GTS.... Torque curve on stock engine tells half of the story mate.... You missed inlet duct length which is a very important point in terms of gaining urgent power. You also missed a point, the C63 cranks around 469 horsepower and 479 lb/ft, it's the C63 S that makes 503 horses and 516 lb/ft coz it's for competing the 500 horsepower, 442 lb/ft BMW M4 GTS. See how it works? Back to the BMW vs Mercedes, all you know is fuel consumption and emission but missed the most important point. What makes fuel consumption and emission? The amount of air/fuel mixture that burning in the cylinder. Actually, you can barely tell the power difference by using fuel consumption unless you have the fuel consumption of both car during max performance. You said the C63 have sharper throttle response, why? Let me tell you, it's because it got more torque than the M4 and kicks in about the same rpm, the M4 got less torque. Of course the C63 will give you even sharper response. Go have a look at BMW's boost pressure, it's a 18.1 vs AMG 16.0. So BMW's S55 may suck more air for burning more fuel but that doesn't mean the C63 is on down wind, the C63 have a greater compression ratio. 10.5 vs 10.2. Not to mention 6 cylinder vs 8 cylinder. More cylinder with higher compression ratio means burning fuel evener, more power been squeezed during each firing stroke. Also, 2 more spark plugs to burn them. So it's more air vs evener fuel burnt. One more point, the S55 is the better engine here also because it have a shorter stroke. Shorter stroke means more energy produced at each revolution compared to engine with longer stroke. In other word, S55 is much sharper response if it crank as much tq as Merc. Get it? So how's the 4.0 TT V8 better?
NISMO N ATTACK 東瀛戰神 My Gosh, I've never seen anyone make a point in a more roundabout way(but have you? You kind of still haven't declared why you think the BMW is the "winner" here). But to answer YOUR question, it's bloody simple, I think Mercedes-AMG has made a better compromise in the powertrain department. As you've also explained here, they have an engine that's similarly light and compact, while maintaining a sharper throttle response and similar- or better average power output in the usable rev. range. Not to mention the sound, which is admittedly a more subjective topic....
***** Or maybe you're not smart enough. My answer: " the S55 is the better engine here also because it have a shorter stroke. Shorter stroke means more energy produced at each revolution compared to engine with longer stroke. In other word, S55 is much sharper response if it crank as much tq as Merc. " I don't think I'm making a point in a roundabout way, I'm supporting my points by facts and examples.
NISMO N ATTACK 東瀛戰神 if, if....The "fact" is that the Merc's engine - in THIS configuration - has better throttle response, better power to weight ratio, and preferable engine characteristics. And that spewing that supposed to be your "technical explanation" is so ignorant, so contradictory that I don't even know where to begin.... " the S55 is the better engine here also because it have a shorter stroke. Shorter stroke means more energy produced at each revolution compared to engine with longer stroke. In other word, S55 is much sharper response if it crank as much tq as Merc. " - WTF is that even supposed to mean? Throttle response is determined by literally hundreds of factors....The engine revolution speed, the profile of the turbine and compressor, the route that the compressed air goes through, fuel injection, many more - you are so clueless that I don't even think our conversation has a point any more....
+Oktay E36 Best Car Kann man so nicht sagen, musst du mal genau schauen, mal ist kurz der eine vorne dann wieder der andere... Aber du bist wohl sowieso ein BMW Fanboy wie man an deinem Namen erkennt
Ich respektiere beide Marken. Beide Marken bauen tolle Autos, ich bin aber durch und durch ein BMW-Fan, genau. Ab 200 ist mal der eine, mal der andere vorne, richtig. ;)
Also ich finde, der Mercedes ist nicht schlecht, aber der klang ist nicht mehr das wie vom Vorgänger...Finde sind beide fast gleich, der BMW ein Tik weiter vorne, aber sonst finde ich den BMW im Gesamtpacket besser. Verstehe nicht warum hier manche mit den "C63 S" kommen, wenn der es mit knappen 80PS mehr &' 150nm mehr nicht schaffen würde, dann währe es doch peinlich👎
Honest you can't go wrong with either of them. Although I am driving BMW right now, and I like M4, but man, you can't deny the sound of C63 AMG! That is just crazy!!!! much better than M4.
+Oto Getsadze Not fair ??? M4 weight : 1572 KG M3 weight : 1595 KG so the difference is just 23 KG for 2 extra doors... and You think this 23 KG makes it more fair against a C63 AMG which weights 1715 KG ?
BerlinTomek not fair because C63 AMG is a 4 door sedan while M4 is a coupe and M3 F80 is 4 door as well, so C63 AMG not the normal one but the AMG S should go against M3 F80 and C63 AMG S Coupe should go against M4.
BerlinTomek between which cars? M3 and M4? yeah maybe there is not a big difference but between an AMG and an AMG S is a big difference ;) so compare them or maybe the best one would be if you will compare M3 F80 Competition Package (when it comes out) and C63 AMG S
basicly , the two cars are very powerfull an so identilly...but the m4 has 100% the more agressive design...this is absolutely and in the accleration ist the m4 a little bit better than the other one
M4 is much more fun to drive than the C63, already drove the two, and the M4 made me much happier, who likes to run only straight is because they do not know how to drive well, both are great cars, but BMWs always provide better fun, and I was once owned a C63 Black Series the previous generation for more than two years.
driven both for multiple days the C63 is by far the better car in terms of luxury and quality not to mention sound is somthing else. BMW is like a car from 2010 from inside but looks slightly better outside imo maybe handles better too. for the road take the 63 anyday
+Ralph Rodriguez its MRA rear-wheel drive platform, it features front axle four link and rear axle five link susp.Its not pure rwd and not funny - enjoyable like bmws rwd. anyway BMW all the way.
Where is bmw in Formula 1, DTM races? They do not exist, they can not get close to the mercedes. If it's a Mercedes for old people then only old people ride the most prestigious races in the world where the bmw swallows the dust behind the mercedes :) mercedes is best race car and best car for every day, bmw fans, I'm sorry, don't cry :)
I don't get why people keep saying that the m4 is better than the c63 since it still won with less power. Oh well probably because the c63 is literally 600 pounds heavier
Is everyone fucking forgetting that with bmw you get nothing but driving feel. Mercedes not as good but you get a fuck tone for luxury than a bmw. Considering the merc kept up with the bimmer even though it weighs a lot more but sounds ten times better cause of the v8 AND A NATURAL COCKPIT SOUND prove that Mercedes know their shit. I drove a 320d and it nearly wrapped itself around a pole. For track purposes, it's great. But it's a fucking diesel and no one wants to drift.
+naftyloescher Wird es den Black überhaupt geben? Habe gehört die haben sich nicht so gut verkauft. Irgendwie sind die Mercedes Kunden nicht bereit solche Modelle zu kaufen und da hat Mercedes auch schon in der Vergangenheit massiv reagiert. Wenn man sich den SLR McLaren anschaut und dann seinen Nachfolger den SLS und wie der Nachfolger davon (AMG GT) aussieht dann sieht das schon nach einer Extremsparversion und nicht nach einem ebenbürtigen Nachfolger aus.
BerlinTomek Also die Black Series vom C hat sich soweit ich weiß nicht schlecht verkauft und hat auch eine sehr große Fangemeinde. Aber ob es vom aktuellen eine Black Series geben wird weiß noch keiner so richtig da sagt jeder was anderes - wahrscheinlich weiß es nicht einmal Mercedes selbst... Naja der SLR aber auch der SLS werden bzw. sind schon jetzt Klassiker, aber sehr viele verkauft haben sie davon wohl nicht^^ Zum AMG GT: Sehe auch nicht wirklich als gelungenen Nachfolger, der Kiste fehlt irgendwie der Charakter, der SLR hatte ein ganz spezielles Design und einen einzigartigen Sound - wie der SLS auch. Der AMG GT wirkt so als würde er verkrampft versuchen in die aktuelle Zeit zu passen, was ihm auch nicht schlecht gelingt aber, irgendwie ist er so Makellos dass ihm der Charakter fehlt. Und ja der Preis hatte mich auch überrascht, aber im Prinzip ist es auch "nur" ein C63 in anderem Gewand.
